Structure of football comps in NZ - your

Structure of football comps in NZ - your

NZF is reviewing the structure of football competitions in New Zealand.

The shape, purpose, integration and sustainability of national and regional competitions form the 2010 season onwards would all be under review.

Submissions will be called for, both electronically and in person.

My suggestions would be coming from the year I spent living in NZ (2007-08), during which I watched a lot of NZFC and Northern League games. My suggestions would be: PaulSG2009-06-02 03:12:15

I have to say I like your ideas. I totally agree about one National League with 3 regional leagues underneath it with promotion/relegation.

holes:

I still think the NZFC is the answer, I just think that NZ Football need to actually support it. 

1, No last minute decisions on formats and plans leaving 6 of the 8 clubs stuffed.

2, Make the decision and say it's there for 5 years to give it a chance to work.

3, Leave room for possible expansion should the shambles North of the Harbour bridge get their act together or East Auckland or the Phoenix reserves.

4, Actually financially support it.  Update the website (improved this year on match days, but no accurate squads or anything).  Invest some money in promotion, maybe you have to buy some TV time with a sponsor.  No, nobody watched it before but NZ football need to get the brand out there and in a more professional way than previous efforts.

5, Find a way to balance the league, the dominance of the Auckland sides (that continues to grow) is not good for engaging fans elsewhere. 

I'll think of more, but on point 5.  We'll get Loz and others in here saying it's the other clubs faults that they haven't invested to match up, but last season Waitakere and Auckland recruited squads knowing they had the O-League ahead of them even if the NZFC ciollapsed.  Every other side had a month or so to cobble together a squad once it became clear the league would run.  It made the league look Mickey Mouse and NZ Football.

Oh, and while I'm ranting, if you want the football public to believe you care then maybe the league manager should be at NZFC matches, not at a friendly between the Phoenix and Waitakere at the time when NZFC games are being played.
Hard News2009-06-02 21:45:55

Hmm, well on that basis, Feverish, there's not much that can be done is there? But anyway... PaulSG2009-06-02 22:13:31

This should be the structure:


--------------------------------NATIONAL LEAGUE-----------------------------

---NORTHERN----------CENTRAL----------MAINLAND--------SOUTHERN--

---FED 1-----FED 2-----FED 3------FED 4-----FED 5-----FED 6----FED 7--


All club based. All played in winter.

Chatham Cup stays as it is.

Obviously a lot would have to happen for this system to be successful, the main things being sponsorship and grants money.

Oh and promote, promote, promote. Sell the game as best as possible. If (and it's a big if i know) we make the World Cup then build on the media interest that will generate and use the added media exposure to promote the local game as much as we can.

...but we had that for years and it didn't work.  Parochialism meant even fewer watched than the NZFC. 

Clubs came and went as they could afford it, but generally a couple of big egos with trusts in their pockets dominated for a while until they got bored and someone else did.  None of the money went on facilities or developing players just buying in squads to gain promotion that was never really financially justified and now it's even worse with the trusts (grants money) drying up.

At least with the NZFC you have these identities that (in theory) aren't tied to local club parochialism and when they are shown on TV people know who they are, and know who and what they represent.

The grand scheme of a pyramid is lovely when you have billions of dollars of TV behind it funding it, but if even Lowy's millions and the TV dollar value of the socceroos can't make it viable in AUs why do we think it would be here ?

...and how would a return to club based leagues manage that ?

The best players in New Zealand are generally (at least) playing in the NZFC, if we change it back to clubs then you'll lose some of those who have a loyalty to a winter club that may end up nowhere near the national league. 

At least (in theory) with the NZFC the best players are loaned from the club they have an emotional attachment to to try and provide the best quality league possible during summer.

Ok fair points made there.

Look obviously you have been around far longer and watched far more NZ footy than me, and i am about to talk about a time before i was born here so forgive me.

What about in the early 80s when the All Whites were at their peak? Didn't we have a strong(ish) national league then with a decent sponsor behind them enabling it to succeed (Rothmans i believe??). Why is it so hard to envisage this happening again a decent sponsor got in behind the national league (that doesn't mean you Southern Trust).

I don't know, i'm merely going on what i have heard/read down the years. And yes i do love the pyramid system which makes my opinions fairly biased. But with all the problems the NZFC has faced over the last couple years i wouldn't mind going back to a club based national league if it was feasable.

Ah, sorry Hard News. I'm struggling with all this club/franchise business. What I mean there, when I mention "club's" (ie: franchises) going bankrupt in the current system, is the NZFC franchises. They're, in the main, struggling financially now and dwindling crowds are a symptom of that. At least if the league were made more exciting and promotion/relegation added to the mix, it might bring the punters back. Not that alone, but it certainly wouldn't make the NZFC any worse.

PaulSG2009-06-02 22:35:19

What needs to be made clear is that the sides that struggled financially last year had more to do with the late decisions about the viability of the league meaning they struggled to get funding in place.

With a reasonable advance notice that would not have happened and the reports I have coming out of Team Wellington would suggest they are already way further down the track than they were last season, and Waikato are already talking up a return to Waikato Stadium and new management.

We need to separate last season from the ones that went before on the financial front.

If you re-introduce Promotion and relegation you may as well say goodbye to the NZFC sides, once the constituent members are all fighting for the same goal as the NZFC sides they can no longer be viable... oh, Auckland and Waitakere may continue, but they would likey jettison the links to all the local clubs and just become independent bodies effectively representing Central united and Waitakere City.

The world has changed since the early eighties Buffon, if someone wandered in with millions to get a brand out there (a struggle to find for the Phoenix in a MUCH larger market) then maybe it could be that big again, but that's not going to happen and the demographic is different and the battle for public hearts and minds is so much greater now.  We had a nation then that was centered around european immigrants of a generation ago and their decendants, New Zealand isn't like that any more.  More of us are further removed from that history and the attachment to a football club that was imported with them.

Have a look at how few people even watch the first team of clubs we play for, Naenae isn't bad but there are teams in Wellington that would never have seen the club's first team play, the history of the football club as the centre of a suburb or twons social community and therefore support for it is gone.

Throwing $$ at it would be a solution, you could buy live TV each week, bring in imported players and effectively have a professional league running, but that much money ? 

There is a reason we've had the Kingz, Shambles, Phoenix route because the volume of money isn't there for more than one side and you were there for the late Kingz and Knights and know full well that the money was barely there for that either.
Hard News2009-06-02 23:24:50

News makes the point that the most IMPORTANT thing is that we have the best/players with most potential playing.

There is a career in marketing for you Frankie... genius.

Is Charlie Large Potatoes really Jimmy Haidakis?

The more it changes, The more it stays the same.

NZFC should still stay. It needs development but really, it is going to grown over time to make it more competitive and popular. What is needed, is to put in place is better pathways. I do not think that NZFC is supported by the right things.

Although senior clubs are the backbone of regional football, it is the youth development that are seriously affecting the quality of NZFC (and clubs for that matter) at the end of the day. Afterall they are the ones who eventually get to the NZFC after being good enough. But youth development are not totally controlled by clubs. The schools are a large part of it. Every youth has to go to school and have an education.

Why not specialise schools and have football schools funded in part by the government as a special character school as well as by the football community and the old boys/girls association. You will have a growing interest in the football players development from say year 7 (~age 10/11) to year 13 (~age 17/18). That is 7 years of technical youth development being suitably enhanced.

Concerning about development youth soccer programmes, I am still amazed at the lack of creating real football schools through the special education system (where you can obtain special funding). You would have think that for each federation they would actually be allocating at least two schools in each federation dedicated to support soccer as a main sport. Like having an academy of sorts (but seriously soccer focus) but also having to hire oversea coaches for the football programmes aligned with their education requirements.

It gets the youth players to train 5 times a week plus game and then ready to be shipped out to professional clubs if they are specially good enough. At the time, establishing contacts with English clubs and US university systems or foreign clubs by the coaches we get and the players that we ship off.

The NZ youth players that to go these schools are focus on their football next to their studies without being distracted. eg The players for the U20 or U17 can attend the same schools on a football scholarship because they are preparing for a major event. It would be more like a big colligate system.

After secondary school, those who does not get overseas opportunities may get some by their contacts peers later on. Also because of their educational support is able to still go to university and have a career with sports administration and coaching (or a trade) as well as able to turn out for the NZFC teams and local senior winter clubs which will in turn increase the playing quality in the soccer. Some of these late developers may still be able to pick up contacts should NZFC get at recognised level. Having the colligate system and worldwide contracts enhances the football and would open up tours to different countries and widen the experiences. They can enter teams in important events such ManU cups or Milk Cup. Of course the better ones get to represent NZ and play in FIFA sanction age group tournaments. Each youth player's education is well supported by the school and at the same time maximum input for their football is done.

On the long term, these special schools would have better facilities to train on, would receive training compensation from professional clubs for players, would build up a old boys/girls association support system based on these schools which should grows the sports popularity in NZ.

7 federations = 14 schools. The local fixture of two schools in one federation becomes a highly regarded local derby and during the year these schools get to play each other in a league system each week. The best youths in these schools gets to play at a high level among themselves with decent education support as fund in part by the government.

After you are able to get that sorted out, then NZFC popularity will grow because of a new support base is getting stronger and obtaining a great tradition but more importantly the players will get better and the flow on effect goes into the national team which will increase their popularity and feedback to the public support.AllWhitebelievr2009-06-19 04:14:10

You are talking rubbish allwhite believer
the clubs are the cradle of the game
think of them as centres they should be the hub linking to junior clubs,schools(primary and secondary) running centres of excellence for any kid who wants to improve.Linking in with polytechnics and universities to establish a flow through of players in to the game.
Quality coaching at all levels allowing young players to develop in their own time

You having a laugh.

There is so many inaccuracies to the reality of the situation, you have presented, I don't know where to start. Yes clubs are the grassroots and cradle to the game. Junior yes, Senior yes, Youth no.

As many have mention, most clubs are really only a social club with a competitive first team and if they are lucky a competitive second team with plenty of juniors but limited youth players numbers.

Some number of clubs are ego-centre run.

A few clubs have links to nearby schools but most do not. Clubs fight over certain schools every year, creating ego rifts between clubs rather than the normal competitive rivalry.

Very few clubs have centre of excellence for youth players of decent array. Only Ole Madrid is one that I can think off that can wave a flag. Where's the others?

Linking with the local polytechnics? What Polytechnic has any team in any league apart from the odd social? Linking with the Local University? The University runs their own soccer club and it is based more on boozes and girls rather than competitive level. There is hardly any flow to the game, most University players after University graduation do not stay in the game and they are hardy in their mid-20s.

Bobmorton, we have many years of social club-based soccer and it got us nowhere domestically. NZFC and links with the schools or even better create exclusive football schools are the progress in future development of the game. It streamlines the football pathway better and makes a large contribution to the sport in the long term.

Most clubs (being small) don't have quality coaching let alone expect to get their limited youth players numbers the time to receive adequate coaching.

Youth players are highly influenced by the secondary school they go to. The numbers that play soccer for the school is very high, but yet most of these players would not play for a club and after finishing school, they are not adequately coached and so they find themselves ill prepared to play senior club soccer, so after their first club season, they don't stick around.

When you start looking at a few schools that have invested into soccer and produce an academy with an qualified coach involved then you see decent players coming out. Kelvin Fallon at MAGS is an example, however it is still a small part-time programme and is only one school.

We have numerous schools with soccer academies which does not have full time coaching programmes and it is still run by the teachers and very few teachers have adequate coaching qualification. There are many school soccer teams but most have inadequate coaches. This is where soccer has failed big time.

However, these schools obtain funding for these academies from the government and private donation because they have access to a community that is ongoing and sustainable. That is, the school community funding as well as government educational funding. These are two major funding areas that the clubs do not have access to.

Overseas, they have bigger clubs with bigger population clusters and geographic areas so they are able to obtain a source of money. We obviously do not have that and so we set the NZFC franchises to cover that shortfall. However despite this existing, football associations in Spain, Italy, England, Belgium, Germany etc in the last 4 years or so have been in the process of setting up Football exclusive schools with strong connections/sharing of quality coaching along with sponsored top level club. Where youth footballers still have their education side by side with their football training in a controlled environment.

Their school timetable is designed with cater for the football training. Schools in NZ don't change their timetable for a sport, but leave a bit of time at the end of the school day for their sports. Over there, these school have their timetable rearranged such that the students are practically training as much as professional players does during the week while they are able to study in-between. They learn discipline with their studies so they don't be distracted if they are not training or playing hard and so they would balanced when they attend university or in the trades.

The best time to train soccer players or retain people for soccer after finishing school is actually while they are still at school. Yet we do not captialise on this fact. We note the drop in playing numbers from youth to senior soccer and can't do anything from a club or football association point of view.

However, from a school point of view, this can be achieved.

The soccer club can't do anything until the player goes to them. A school can train them and refer their senior students onto a club. If the school is football exclusive, those players are already turning out for the school as well as the club and they already feel strongly connected to the club plus already knowing the people in the club during their school time.

In NZ, those school teams that are connected to a club (even say that they are a club development side), only do so by coaching means and not know the club in any other capacity. The retention rate isn't that good either but it is better than most.

If you look at the Rugby exclusive (Traditional-based) schools, there are high retention rates from school to club, even though they don't go to the same club.

If you want soccer to be big and popular in the future, then you have to look at what you are doing at the school age level. Once you have school thinking sorted out, then the numbers will come to senior club soccer. And along with that, also the high quality elite players for the national teams.

There is money in government education grants, private donation from school communities as well as any transfer % for the training and football education of any young player under 25 that goes to a professional club as consequence of a exclusive football school (they are registered as a club as well). Money and administration that clubs in this country can only dream of.

A football exclusive school will have resources that clubs does not have the financial capacity to operate, the school themselves are the centre of excellence and can be the real hub for youth players as well as ex-school (club) players alike. Club and school can make use of the grounds, facilities and resources. No more rain out training when there is a full sized indoor facility. Rooms for team meetings rather at the club bar full of noise or at the changing rooms. The shared resources, respect and having the school next to the club while sharing grounds is a cost saving exercise.

It is not the clubs particularity that has failed (I have never said the clubs are bad) but the education system that influences the youth that fails soccer. So in creating football exclusive schools as a special school category, then the NZFC clubs or/and winter clubs would have a strong relationship with these schools and make soccer popular and the quality of the game being more appealing and at a higher level. This would naturally lead to a lifting of the general game as well as national teams.

This is what is needed for the sport.AllWhitebelievr2009-07-14 16:19:04

Great in theory but not very will thought out Allwhitebelievr.

The point and aim of exclusive football schools are that they are integrated with the local club soccer and are the continuation between Junior and senior soccer and more importantly are playing their school teams against club teams at senior school age because of their training standards.

The players, although they are part of the school, are also part of the football club so when some of the students leave the academic school early they are still part of the school training programme as contracted to the club. Both school and club have shared resources and that includes players in teams. And therefore there is soccer continuity with players that have dropped out of school earlier than 18.

As for the question of parents with less resource, finance, time. There are some full and half scholarships as well as boarding options. A full scholarship is available for those players who has both academic and sporting potential. Half scholarships for players that have either one or the other. This will make certain students with elite identification exposed to quality football training at an affordable price.

Even those students who are not able to be part of the school can still be in the joint-programme by being part of the associated club. They would not have the full training programme but can be in a part-training programme, instead. This is then becomes part of the greater school community. It is also a question of how many exclusive football school that there can be about for a local region.

However as it stands, the NZFC clubs should have access to at least two football exclusive schools. This is where I don't think that promotion and relegation national club league would work because it breaks up that regional relationship with those schools.

Also, you can't ditch school-based football at all because it has introduced competitive soccer to kids that hasn't had any junior football at all.

In NZ, we don't have football exclusive schools and therefore there is no football continuity with those 14th grade Fed players that you talk about. Also not all school take the players backwards. Some schools do take them forwards but only so far.

By having exclusive football schools, you have the freedom to break that rut where juniors are removed from being associated to a club and provide football education and training while ensuring their football continuity in senior ranks.

The whole idea is to strengthen soccer from junior to youth to senior levels. As being a school, there would be offers of creating an overseas relationship and exchange to their footballing schools and clubs, building a file of overseas contacts and maintaining them.

There are flexible football pathways involved in having exclusive football schools. It's suppose to be their speciality as part of the football network s that noone will slip through the gaps and if it is found that one has, then an alter solution will be explored so it wouldn't happen again.

There is a academic wing of the school that have your qualified teachers and there is the football wing of the school which has the qualified youth development coaches that are paid. The potential is big because you can hire an overseas coach with the right qualification to head the programme. They can work with the local director of football in the region.

A large number of professional club coaches has a physical education degree as well while they were raised in a club environment. Some get to coach some of Europe's top clubs with that background.

Club complain that they don't much access to youth players. Well a exclusive football school will have a relationship with the clubs like no other school, as well as having contacts, grounds, facilities and resources to boot.

clubs should link into schools who have two important facets 1. facilities 2. time with the kids so if clubs linked in they could provide coaches and coaching before,lunchtime and after school

Thats why you need the football exclusive schools that can adapt to the clubs needs as well. ATM the schools have many other sports and other interest. Soccer has a different skill set and uses different coaching requirements to most other sports. The numerous of the professional leagues around the world and the value of the transfer % to clubs/schools that provides the football education until a player is 25 years old would add to the scholarship funds and the interest would increase the number of scholarships available and so adds value to the football exclusive schools.

That was such a funny read

allwhitebeliever what planet are you on

Bob, what it shows is that you have no idea. And that you are only talking on what limited understanding you have about the situation. [Goodness, it's like talking to a teenager] If you think I am on another planet, you are totally wrong. Some youth players play both school teams and club but most youth players are involved with the school teams only and have very little continuation when they finish school. That is quite well established and I haven't debate against that.

Bob, u can't force all schools to to be linked to any club. Each school have different philosophy of learning but none has any football full-time training programme integrated nor able to be in that position fully without shifting major fundamentals of the schools philosophy.

Since I been involved in education in recent years as well as having club football experience and aspects of coaching, I actually have a fair idea of the requirements to make it happen.

The reality is that many school kids do not access to top coaching within schools. There isn't that many quality coaches at youth level to go around for the volume. Not all clubs can have that liberty of access as there are actual clubs fighting over certain schools. Usually the teacher who is mainly associated with a club are the main source of their coaching. But that comes with problems because these teacher/coaches are not fully qualified nor need to qualified in order to train the school team leading to ill quality coaching. Lets face it, some coaches at clubs are of poor quality let alone expect them to coach a school team. Just because they are from a club does not mean they can coach at a high quality. If that was the case, we would have been world beaters years ago, but we are not anywhere half decent.

Some of the clubs approach to coaching youth has also discouraging in some cases and many has no decent football philosophy to work from nor has any real youth development programme. I have seen plenty of horrible youth coaching in NZ provided by clubs. Clubs do their own thing. Their coaching doesn't even have to follow the directions of NZFootball. I know of clubs that think that the coaching courses from NZFootball are a waste of time. Which is why you need exclusive schools that are willing to be committed to the game itself.

NZfootball does not have the financial capacity to provide a robust programme of that high quality to youth development unless they are representing their country. This is where it can be boarder, also the Rep programmes are run by the federation not NZfootball. None of these entities can force any educational institutional into soccer. The initiative has to come from the setting up of the school framework to cater for the full-time programme. No club or football institutions can ask to change an existing school to change their philosophy of learning without problems with the Board of Trustees, parents and teachers. The only way to create a school with the philosophy of learning with a special focus on football, that way the Board of Trustees, Parents and Teachers who come abroad to these type of schools are fully committed.

The first and foremost purpose of the school is the children's education. These schools types can be sorted by designated character schools, or independent, boarding etc, each with different planning and funding criteria can set up under the current educational system.

Unlike you, I have been talking to certain educationist in my college of education, architectural designers, business lecturers, headmasters, MPs over the last three years about the possibility. Over 6 years ago, I have done quite a bit of personal research on the football school landscape overseas. If it was not possible under the current educational system, I would have not even mentioning it. As it is, it is possible as well as having a number of different revenues of funding.

Personally, I am not quite in the position to do make action as there are plenty of groundwork yet to do. And there are so many small details that I am not at that the stage of working with yet. I like to say that it is not too far away of becoming a reality, but it is a long way off still, However let say I am 6 years closer.

BTW more than most clubs can't provide before, during and after school coaching because the coaches are not full-time professionals nor are the clubs professional. If we have numerous professional clubs, then yes, that would be possible. We don't, so the hiring of full-time professional coaches would have to come from the school itself in these cases and not the clubs which don't have the financials. These coaches, hired professionally at these schools, would be able to lend themselves to clubs on relationship understanding.

sorry allwhitebeliever my fault because i,m busy at the moment on soccer business i,ve only read your statements in a cursory manner.
this last post i,ve read in detail - i realise you are not really involved in the real game
i was wrong to encourage you to enter this conversation
best of luck with your 6 year plan ha ha ha !!

I don't know whether you have genuine concerns or being sarcastic or just stirring up or not reading correctly or not just getting the point.

But I am quite involved and it is not a 6 year plan. I have been involved in personal research over the last 6 years and in process of drafting a plan based on my finding. It's taken this long because I am not full-time nor getting paid and frankly I have other things to do. I am also a coach of seven years experience at top local leagues but at the moment involved in Educational studies so I am just playing football at social level now. Getting too old with injuries to try and commit myself at top club leagues, got no speed anymore. Remember I do get out and about and meet people regarding this. A detail plan and enough interest and a fair bit of number crunching with a location and building materials, job description etc. Hopefully, in a couple of years time I would have to make overseas trips to a number of these football schools and inspect their grounds. But atm, I just want to finish my teaching registration.

Sigh . . .[shakes head]

Believe it or not AWB I love the fact that you take the time to post here.  But with this one you're so far from sanity I find I'm on the same page as Nightz (which is something that makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth when I think about it).

AWB suggest you have a chat with guys like Smithy some time as he is involved with coaching these youth players. As he also states some clubs LH and Wests are putting coaches into schools but most clubs dont have the resources to do this. I myself have 16 and 17 year old young men so know the problems both them and their mates have been through with the current system and the changes that are currently happening within these age groups in the capital footyball region.

Maybe I should simplify it:

Smithy, in answer to each of your points

Schools
1.) I am not talking about existing schools, I am talking about creating exclusive schools based on football.
2.) Designated character schools, or independent (i.e. private schools) schools can select their own students based on their ethos (in this case football ethos). Some of these schools still have certain funding available as a state integrated schools. Football Exclusive Schools are a designated character school not state schools, but it is possible to have it state integrated school, depending on the Board of Trustee and the availability of funding. All in all, I am not talking about public state school.
3.)Designated character schools, or Independent schools can design their school to cater for the facilities for the football programmes. The academic staff will be registered teachers not are neccessary involved with the coaching or programme but caters for the education part of the students. The director of the football programme will be fully qualified as well as some of the coaches hired. Expertise for the job can be hired from overseas with appropriate funding areas. Also the coaches are hired based in their experience in sport education and football club experiences. Most of these will be likely to be from overseas because of that.
4.) The business of education is there as well as the elite sport coaching. it is practically a full immersed footballing school.

Clubs:
1.) Not all clubs have all the facilities but a school can have more facilities as well as able to have their facilities hired out to clubs for use.
2.) Has coaches, but also schools can have coaches suitable for their teams as well.
3.) club access to more and better competition is dependent on the federation/association. These exclusive school will have the same access to the same competitions because they will also have a close relationship with the federation/association as well.

Basically it is not bridge gapping (that is part-time stuff), but have an full immersed programme. This is not a new idea and there are schools overseas that deliver education and the footballing.

Creating such schools will not stop the clubs delivering football programmes to other schools, all it does is to enhance the levels across the board.

Well I do understand the problems in the current system, this idea of exclusive football schools is to better that system. Its a win-win for both school and club. It would not affect any existing partnership that any clubs has to any school. It is a different system and a different relationship which actually designed to enhance the footballing experience. Admittedly it will be only targeting a smaller group of students if we are talking about volume, but it will lift the overall standard and actually draws competitiveness for the clubs to lift the standard as well.

Just can't see it being affordable.  You'd need someone to sink tens of millions into building a school to cater for a very small number of students, so fees would be extraordinary.

Well thats where the architectural designers, private funders, overseas clubs and other post youth club academy links etc comes in.

Of course the capital cost is huge. What business isn't? It's the cashflow and the ability to expand from the initial cost which is key. It's a long term investment and the post school association for past students and friends and family is very crucial for the sustainability for the school.

Building from the ground up maybe it's hard to see, but I have seen a sport academy set up for a rugby/tennis/netball system but without the usual academic teaching because the pupils are under the correspondence school. And I have seen a designated character school being set up from scratch recently. The funding comes from various sources but also has an initial funding grant. Looking at the different revenues there are for them, it is more feasible than you initially think. The money is collective but it has strong interested parties as it's backbone. It's building that backbone which is important. I am also looking at not just the secondary school context but a bit younger for the starting entry.

Also nothing to take away from Fallon's programme at MAGS, but do you think that it is enough? Are their graduates are technically on par with other football academy players that we have seen around the world? Fallon has his own way of things but one school is not going to make a huge enough mark on the NZ football landscape.

I also think that we can improve on what Fallon has at MAGS. Dare I say but despite his passion and the drive for the game, there needs to be more instinctive and integrated approach to lift the skill factor. It is of course my opinion. He has change some of his english game approach, but it's the old english game that I have strong reservations as well as some of the old mindset. I firmly believe that structure and formation strategy comes a bit later at senior student age and that skill and tactics are first and foremost, especially for the youth.

But that is one school's approach. You need more than one school, you need a collective of schools with different approach and styles. A conflict of styles to open the game wide open and make the players adapt and endure hardness in the game as well as opening up different strategy and tactics for the coaches. Lifting the overall learning curve.

I don't want to be Mr Negativity but in point of fact: Smithy2009-07-23 16:25:41