National League / OCL

The WaiBOP United Thread

1997 replies · 271,691 views
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Many injuries for the game against Auckland. Good news is, that somewhat like the Phoenix, we were always unlikely to win. Hopefully none of them are out for too long
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
And injuries can be a problem with young players training intensely and playing against men - many of Declan's boys will still be growing. Ah well...survival of the fittest I guess.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Correct me if i'm wrong, but it is predominantly the older squad members that are injured, isn't it?

Older is a relative term, of course, but those under a cloud according to today's report were Adam thomas, matt Williams, Mike kramer and Matteo Ballan.  Only Thomas is still U20 of that lot.
 
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
To be honest this is just poor coaching, or rather poor knowledge of sports science..

The younger players have been training regularly under Declan and will have built up a level of fitness enabling them to train at a high intensity. Unfortunately the 'older' players or simply those who have not been training in the Edge Academy program wont have been ready to train at the same level.. anyone with some basic exercise prescription knowledge should have known this and built these players upto training at the same level.

Whoever the fitness coach has let the side down... (but I presume there isnt one and everything has been left to Mr Edge..?)

Hope the youngsters get their chance and prove the usual negative Waikato 'supporters' wrong..
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
more assumptions from ray
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bit of mystery
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You know, I can't recall Waikato FC - or Waikato United before them - ever having a dedicated fitness coach.
 
But when fitness is lacking, it is not something you usually blame the coach for, given players have come straight from a winter season in which they should have been relatively well conditioned.
 
To conclude this is somehow poor coaching is, in my opinion, a specious argument.
 
Having said that, I think Ray touches on a valid point that i have now heard several observers of Waikato FC utter - the lads who have come from Wanderers have been a little bit remedial in their fitness. I think it has caught several by surprise.
 
My initial thoughts were that is was unhelpful to highlight divisions in the squad along club lines but it has sort of become the elephant in the room.
 
It should be noted players such as David Samson and Mike Thompson, who are not in the Edge academy, do appear to be managing to keep up.
 
I do recall back in the days of Waikato United, the coach used to send out a fitness guide to clubs to circulate to their players interested in trying to make the team. But we have kind of moved on from there. It is pretty much a given that players know they need to be fit to play at this level.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
well said
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hello again. You know, in a perverse sort of way, it's perhaps a sign of something that the discussion has now been tilted along these lines.
 
It's not so long ago, the prevailing mentality here seemed to be that the Edge academy youngsters were somehow keeping better young kids out of the YOUTH team - let alone the first team - and this was a bad thing.
 
Now, the concern is that the Edge academy youngsters are training at a more intense level, setting the pace, and the others are having problems keeping up.
 
Hmmmmmmmm. Makes you think.
 
Funny old game.
 
 
 
 
Bruce Holloway2011-10-20 18:45:22
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nzsportsprogrammes

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bruce you have become a myopic, (are you eddie edge in drag), your arguments are based on club affiliation.The assumption was that other YOUTH players were not even considered for the SENIOR squad because they weren't in edge's system. Of course if you get six players of around the same ability, Those that get to train with elite players in a more proffessional environment they will prosper while the others have reduced opportunity and prospect. If edge has always been a Waikato FC man as publicly stated, where were all these young players from his academy in the previous two years?
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hello. Firstly, I don't see how my arguments are based on "club affiliation".
 
You seem to assume my club has some sort of "party line" on Waikato FC when that is not the case at all. Besides, i have been a supporter-member of Waikato - and the old Waikato United and even Hamilton AFC - for decades ahead of relatively recently throwing in my lot with Melville. (At Melville they still think I am a closet Waikato Unicol supporter anyway).
 
I do however believe something very exciting is happening in the Waikato, as the result of a 4-year football experiment by Declan. I started off somewhat sceptical about the whole premise
that we could replicate a type of football apprenticeship here in our own backyard, but kept an open mind and have gradually been won over by the development I have seen with my own eyes.
 
If that makes me Eddie in drag, well good on Eddie then. But let's play the ball, not the man, remember. Debate the ideas, not the woolly hat.
 
As discussion here has unveiled, those full time in the game and training every day have an advantage by the nature of their very input. But we can hardly knock them for such dedication. it's not like they have done anything wrong. Indeed, they have done great.
 
A couple of weeks ago I watched a waikato FC youth trial game at Gower Park and a member of the Waikato coaching staff - not Declan - came up and said to me: "it's not hard to tell the boys that are working with Declan is it?" I agreed.
 
In previous years Declan farmed his lads out to various franchises, where he felt they would get a start of their development would be most advanced.
 
That was quite understandable for someone who has taken on a fulltime role of developing his players. But for me, as club administrator in the waikato it was a growing concern that we had this incongruity of precocious talent bubbling under but doing so outside of what would appear to the natural 'shop window' for the game here in terms of Waikato FC.
 
Like a lot of coaches, Declan can be very zealous, very uncompromising, and very focused on what he is doing. those qualities are like guns - they can be pointed in lots of directions.
 
What we needed, in my view, was to have Declan back inside the tent - somewhere declan had wanted to be for years.  
 
Reconciliation was sorely needed, and as fate would have it, a solution came about.  In my opinion it has been good from a holistic Waikato perspective to finally have Declan back inside the tent.
 
I have no doubt there will be the odd blue - as happens most seasons - and Waikato are still underdone, but overall I feel happier about Waikato FC than i have for several years.  I say that as a founder member of Waikato FC.
 
i can see some of Declan's boys moving off beyoind waikato Fc at some point - at which case i expect a rabid chorus of nouth-foaming may start again. But that's part of the life cycle of a game where the participants - players and coaches - tend to be quite transitory. it's usually just us fans that are the constant.
 
hope this helps.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nzsportsprogrammes

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
1-1 at halftime.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
N-Bomb wrote:
1-1 at halftime.


And then came the second half....
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
the 2nd half was poor from Waikato. The two center backs were bad, Jess Edge and Raymond Howe did not defend well.  Declan's tactics have a lot to answer for. Telling your back four to squeeze that high when you have a goalkeeper that's not mobile was suicide. It could have been 8 easy.
 
All Auckland had to do was play over the top, surley at national level they should be made to work harder for goals. That said the league is a poor standard, Mulligan was head and shoulders  and he can't break into the A league as a right back. Auckland are the best team to grace NZ in 25yrs  so Edge says, if that is the case then the NZ football is a very poor standard
 
The way I see it there is a huge conflict of interests starting happen with Waikato. Declan's young players are in the learning to play phase of development they are not learning to win yet. Waikato FC senior players are there to win, the way Declan's young boys play will not change regardless of the score or opposition as they don't care about the result. The senior players and all the poeple that paid $10 to get in do care about the result. The likes of Samson and Thomo will get frustrated when they realise that not all players are pulling in the same direction.
 
Declan's young boys are tactically poor and physically not football fit . They train everyday, yet they looked dead on their feet in the 2nd half. Football is game of explosive movemets that must replicated over and over again. They can do it for 30min and then they drop off. This is down to age but also down to the fact they do not train to with any intensity.
 
The other thing Declan has missed.  Barcelona water their pitch as do most europeans, helps to get the ball moving quicker. A Wet pitch really aids Barcelona's style of play. Declan is trying to play a quick passing game on Dry pitch that slows the ball down. Would it not make sense to water the pitch ? if you are trying to replicate Barca's style of play?
 
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Highlights from yesterday's match v Auckland City

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLBXngXW9i4
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
deckard I have to disagree that Waikato should water their pitch. I understand why its done but the players at Barcelona have a first touch that they can use when the ball comes on. I do not think the Waikato boys have the first touch to manage a ball coming onto them at pace.It will only bounce away and rebound on the touch. Ask the HBU guys about it. I don't think they water Park Island anymore because their players could not handle the first touch and the ball coming onto them at pace (or so I was told)

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
With no Waikato match this weekend, it is timely to at least have the Waikato FC v Hawke's Bay national youth league clash to watch at 1pm on Saturday at Gower Park.
 
However I was astonished to learn this week that there are restirctions on playing the youth players who have been mandatorily included in ASB premiership squads.
 
Waikato can name just 2 of their 5 mandatory senior squad "youth" players in their youth team.
 
How weird is that?
 
It means Waikato - like every team, I guess - is prevented from playing its strongest possible team in the youth league.
 
I don't see how this benefits the code, or the players. It strikes me as such an arbitrary restriction - one which binds without necessarily serving any purpose.
 
Indeed, there could even be a temptation among franchises to not tag their best players as youth players within the senior squad - but toll the bell but chucking in some underperformers - to avoid the restriction.
 
Anyway, that's just me. is there something I have missed here? Is there some higher good at work? or is it just another example of the code beating itself up for no reason?
 
Appreciate some alternate views.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nzsportsprogrammes

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Makes absolutely no sense to me. Do the maths - the senior team has to have 2/5 academy players in the match day squad (probably on the bench as well) - most senior squads won't name more than that in my opinion. And you are saying only 2/5 can me named in the youth team? So it's quite possible that only 4/5 academy players will be involved in some sort of game...makes you feel sorry for the kid who won't get any game time.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bruce you said "Waikato can name just 2 of their 5 mandatory senior squad "youth" players in their youth team", but I think the rule might be they can name 2 of their 5 mandatory senior squad players (non youth) in their youth team. This would more sense.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hi Toffeeman, I agree with you, that would make more sense.
 
But it seems that having insisted youth players be part of the senior set-up, those same youth players are now being treated as senior players for the purposes of the youth league.
 
I took the liberty of checking with the Waikato youth coach.
 
 
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nzsportsprogrammes

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bruce I'd get your Youth Team coach to check the regulations again,
I cant see anything in NYL Regulations I have that suggests that?

Rule 8.1

Franchise Clubs must name the five (5) Academy Players as required in NZF Regulation 10.8.1 and 8.11 by 4pm 5th October. The remaining twentyfive (25) Academy Players will need to be named by 4:00pm 14 October 2011

Rule 8.7
Up to a maximum of two Players (2) National League Squad
will be eligible to play in any match in the National Youth League. These players need not be the two (2) players each match

JordyBean2011-10-28 17:04:13
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jordy, to me, that looks like exactly what Bruce was talking about.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
To me it reads that the 5 Academy players named by 5th Oct are classed as Academy players and memebrs of Academy Squad not National League senior squad players? and the 2 players allowed to play are actually overage players from senior squad
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bruce is quite correct.
 
The Youth players named in the National League squad are classified as National League players .This means that only 2 players per match can drop down and play in the Youth League
 
We checked this regulation with NZF and they confirm this. We were initially going to name 7 or 8 Youth players in our National League Squad but decided against this when NZF made this ruling. Waikato doesn't agree with this ruling but we will abide by it
 
I hope this clarifies the situation
 
Brendon Coker
Waikato FC Chair.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Correction to my earlier statement
 
It has since been confirmed with me by NZF that the 5 Academy players can play down in the Youth League at anytime.I did seek clarfication on this matter with NZF a month ago and apparently my interpretation of their response was wrong.
 
I apologise for the confusion. I know its unusual for Chairs to write on forums but I believe the football community have a right to know what is happening.They are major stakeholders in our game
 
I am glad this matter has been resolved and the right outcome has been achieved.
 
Good luck to all the teams this weekend
 
Brendon
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Never made it to Gower yesterday. Anyone like to post a review of the Wai/Hawkes Bay youth game, a very brief report on the ASB home page however just about as much comment on who wasn't playing as there was about the game.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:
deckard I have to disagree that Waikato should water their pitch. I understand why its done but the players at Barcelona have a first touch that they can use when the ball comes on. I do not think the Waikato boys have the first touch to manage a ball coming onto them at pace.It will only bounce away and rebound on the touch. Ask the HBU guys about it. I don't think they water Park Island anymore because their players could not handle the first touch and the ball coming onto them at pace (or so I was told)
Good teams water their pitches, poor sides dont.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Humbug wrote:
Never made it to Gower yesterday. Anyone like to post a review of the Wai/Hawkes Bay youth game, a very brief report on the ASB home page however just about as much comment on who wasn't playing as there was about the game.
Was a small bit in the paper, not sure if this helps but seems like Van Ewart had a good game
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I thought Waikato were going to win easily in the first 20 minutes, dominating territory and possession.
 
They had two good shouts for penalties turned down (Mohamed Awad and Mark Jones). However they couldn't get an early goal.
 
Awad created a lot but then squandered loads of chances. And the hawke's bay keeper made some great saves in the second half and his goal led a charfmed life.
 
Josh Greene played well in a holding role in midfield. Most of the Waikato lads put in reasonable performances. I thought the right back looked a little clunky though.
 
Johnny Konings was good at the back. the Matamata lad, Harry Redwood, showed a few flashes. Danyon Drake looked solid in goal.
 
Van Ewart took his goals well when he came on.
 
 
 
 
 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nzsportsprogrammes

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Correction to my earlier statement
 
It has since been confirmed with me by NZF that the 5 Academy players can play down in the Youth League at anytime.I did seek clarfication on this matter with NZF a month ago and apparently my interpretation of their response was wrong.
 
I apologise for the confusion. I know its unusual for Chairs to write on forums but I believe the football community have a right to know what is happening.They are major stakeholders in our game
 
I am glad this matter has been resolved and the right outcome has been achieved.
 
Good luck to all the teams this weekend
 
Brendon
 
 
Brendon - thanks for coming on here and clarifying this with authority.  Much appreciated.
 
Also well played to NZF for making the right decision here.
 
No shame in misinterpreting info from the NZF Office either Brendon - happens to me all the time :)

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mike Thompson on the bench... what the hell is going on? This lad is top quality and is the only Waikato player who would make the Waitakere or Auckland sides yet he is on the bench at Waikato - WTF!!!
OH AND 5-0 :(
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
WTF WTF WTF WTF Harry Edge on for Matteo Ballan - please tell me this is a pi** take... next week Eddie Edge to play right back, Declan to play up front, Jesse (who is the only one who should be there) in midfield..
Morgan Edge to play at Centre back http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Edge
Edge to play in goal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_%28wrestler%29
The Edge to play left back http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Edge
This one could be a possibility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Edge

Please feel free to add... (all of the above are as deserving as H)
RayMysterio2011-11-06 15:54:05
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
That's bloody depressing, watched the youth side play yesterday. Couldn't fathom some selections, game winner from the previous week on the bench till after the 3/4 mark, then on in the midfield. Young, the pick of Wai midfield replaced at half time. Gave away far to much cheap ball at the back. Little penetration in midfield and no service to forwards. Can't recall a meaningful shot at goal in the first half, 2-zip Ak. Redwood made some strong runs in second half and scored, far to much running with the ball, and little delivery into the box, meat and drink for a well drilled AK side. Waikato battled gamely till the end. 2-1 final score. Best for Waikato, Konnings. I wondered after the game if the youth academy players, who weren't available may have had a positive impession on this game as opposed to wasting airfare $$. Maybe so Humbug2011-11-06 16:04:50
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Just got home from Canterbury v Waikato game.   Canterbury 3-0 at half time and cruising. Waikato looks very impressive with their passing and inter-play, but it didn't go anywhere.   I think that the Canterbury defence only had to "save" three shots at their goal, but Canterbury could have had another half dozen at the other end.   The Waikato keeper played as a sweeper out of necessity (very flat and naive Waikato back four) and he kept Waikato in the game.   Made a couple of good saves as well.   Amazed that Mike Thompson did not start - really showed some aggression and belief when he came on - up till then there had been none, but by the time he got there it was all over.
I can see Waikato getting a few more thumpings this year - I didn't realise that this was a development league (he says with tongue in cheek)
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hahahahaha harry edge on the bench and coming on!! what a joke declan. Declan is using Waikato for his own personal gain in the form of Harry who shouldnt even be good enough to play for the youth team. team selections are woeful, boyd, thomas, awad are going to be good players in the future, but not good enough now! How have these players got in the team without playing regular northern league football? Thompson got to start, freshy cant even make the bench??? Ricky broderson in midfield with matt williams should feature. and now that fulcher has conceded 5 and mouncher 5, does Tommy finally get in? Deserved it from the start, amazing all season for ham wanderers and one bad pre season game costs him, rubbish. Declan definitely has his favorites, right numpty.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Its good to see so much opinion so soon after Waikato's game today.Interesting comments.
I hope everybody making these comments are in someway involved in waikato football as you all seem so well informed with your tactical and player views.
Its difficult to reply to your concerns as a member of the coaching staff when you don't let us know who you really are.

And yes this is me.

       
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Neil Thats bollocks, you only want to hear from the cheerleaders, Why should anyone posting an opinion be required to be involved. Doesn't being concerned or even just interested qualify. perhaps you should change to a brown shirt. Just try to reply to the topics raised rather than ducking for cover
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
lynchmob
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Graeme Sole wrote:
Just got home from Canterbury v Waikato game.   Canterbury 3-0 at half time and cruising. Waikato looks very impressive with their passing and inter-play, but it didn't go anywhere.   I think that the Canterbury defence only had to "save" three shots at their goal, but Canterbury could have had another half dozen at the other end.   The Waikato keeper played as a sweeper out of necessity (very flat and naive Waikato back four) and he kept Waikato in the game.   Made a couple of good saves as well.   Amazed that Mike Thompson did not start - really showed some aggression and belief when he came on - up till then there had been none, but by the time he got there it was all over.
I can see Waikato getting a few more thumpings this year - I didn't realise that this was a development league (he says with tongue in cheek)


Waikato played with 3 at the back with a CB who if he could head a ball would have not had the Canterbury CF getting away and scoring his 2nd goal. Edge is the nieve one not his players they went out and played to his idea about how to make better players by getting humped in games.
The Ref was giving a free kick every time a tackle was made.
Keep the kindy kids out of ASB premiership.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Me bad, naive.
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