The WaiBOP United Thread

Referees in this country have to pass the FIFA fitness test. This conditions of test and the requirements for passing it are laid down by FIFA. Jamie Cross is a FIFA referee and, as such, his fitness will be under even more scrutiny than Chris Kerr's in order to maintain that FIFA status.

Lets be real though Jaq, we must be teaking things a bit here and there for our referees. Name another referee in the world that is in the shape of ours?...

Roger that Jaggy...sorry mate.

Ian Anderson in the Waikato Times has a good question. Would you rather see a Waikato team full of Waikato players, but totally uncompetitive, or a Waikato team full of Aucklanders which can win matches?

id rather see a very strong auckland team 3rd team, made up of actually the next best from auckland. Waikato have to get its juniors and youth sorted first the should place a team

I think a large part of the problem for the Waikato maybe $.  Many people have questioned why some of the Waikato's better players haven't fronted for the franchise in the last few years.  It appears some have signed for Auckland clubs in the hope of raising their profile and bank balance with championship wins as well as appearances at the World Club Champs.  I believe this kind of thing happens in every league in the world.  Others are happy to appear for Waikato based clubs in the winter and then take the summer off, have they decided that their NZ football careers can go no further and would rather enjoy summer?  I'm not sure but what I do know is that the franchaise doesn't have $ to attract them to play.  So fair play to the Auckland players who are motivated to play in our top competition and are prepared to travel to train and play for the Waikato.  Also well done to the local players who want to represent their region and are available.  Some of you should be grateful for them because without them this team could be truely awful.  You have a coach who develops youth and knows how to win so just maybe if you keep him for few seasons the Waikato FC team will soon be filled with the talented young players the region has produced.  On the other hand the Waikato way appears to be to slag the players and remove the coach every year so you can repeat the cycle next year.  Maybe giving the players and the coach more than a year together in time will reap rewards.

I agree with you about developing young players for the future. In the programme their was many youth players from the region listed. However out of the 14 players used on the day only 2 got game time.

ECB tough competition next year? Surely the National League is tougher? Yes I do think he wants whats best for Waikato as its his coaching reputation on the line. If they become a force he becomes a legend.  If they come last again then it sets him back coaching at a higher level. This scenario is probably a bit like Roy Hogdson with Liverpool...well respected for his work at Fulham and risking it now with Liverpool if that makes sense.   I have no doubt that he sees the clubs as entirely different projects and probably enjoys being employed as a coach all year round.  What I do know is that since he has been at ECB their U19 teams have been exceptional with a large group of them now playing in the first team.  He will look to give young Waikato players time and experience this season and hopefully therefore reduce the need for so many players from outside the region in the follow seasons. 

I think you have kinda hit the nail on the head to a degree there Owl.

In the case of Waikato football (and admittedly I haven't seen it in 2-3 years) who would people want to front for the team that hasn't been picked? Aaron Scott has chosen Waitakere so thats a results/money vs roots (I wont say loyalty as he has been with Waitakere for 3 years), Matt Williams was Auckland for 3 years but has had the summer off. In the likes of Bunce, Sole and Chewins, well without beind rude to them and their ability but their time has been and gone in the back half of the 30. Steven Holloway is a bit of a mystery cause he has talent but something is obviously not clicking for him, as he hasn't played the last 2 years and as Bruce says, he is in Queenstown. Maybe Joe Simpkins but he tries to play that enforcer role and is that going to fit in with the coaches style (whom coach teams football and not long ball or physicality). Thats half of Melville right there.

It looks like the next best in Waikato has been picked. They are young and have talent and in some cases still need developing at this level. Who has they picked from Auckland? Well thankfully its not retreads/Auckland-Waitakere off casts like the Matthews boys, Prince, Suri etc. I think had Van Rooyen stuck around, he would be helpful cause it still looks light in the middle. I see the website is updated and its not a list of big names and granted they are ECB players but then they are playing for nothing, never been given a run at this level before will play football. I've yet to see Jason Hicks but when he was at Glenfield, he was a little sh*t of a player so he must have come along way. Strom is still floating around and will be the experienced player it seems.

To the moaners...who would you pick?

I see some valid points. However i do think the mathews boys and suri would be better than some of the lads there at the moment and add experience which could help the young ones come through. Although it is a positive that new aucklanders are gaining asb experience and to be fair after what i read the programme that Waikato once signed Donegan and De Vetter i guess you could say they are on the up in terms of auckland recruitment. They are not signing no names anymore to a certain extent.

The Matthews Brothers don't play for free...just ask 3 Kings so why would you expect them to travel to play and train in the Waikato for nothing.  That is my whole point in a nutshell. No $ to attract players.  Suri is back home in the islands so come the transfer window it wouldn't be a shock if he makes an appearance for a franchaise.

But why would you want the Matthews brothers? Yeah they have experience and yeah they have talent. They also have a history of getting sent off. Is that the playing style that Gerdsen  and Grove coach at ECB? Is that the example for the younger ones? Nope. Suri has those 'oh no' moments to frequently to be playing at this level anymore. If Sam and Joel were the answer, they'd be at Waitakere or Auckland. They are not. Wonder why...

I think the youth movement is a good idea and give it 2 years (provided that they come back) they will be a good young team with experience. Yeah Waikato have heard it before but when you look whats on the pitch, it kinda does ring true. The feedback has also been that they were very much in the game against Auckland. Either Auckland are bad or Waikato are going to compete well this year.

Would you rather see a New Zealand A-League team full of NZ players, but totally uncompetitive, or a Wellington Phoenix full of Aussies, Brits, Barbadians, Latin Americans etc which can win matches? It's the same question, surely, and one which history has already answered.

Im not saying the mathews boys should be there or not, for all we know they may have been asked but turned it down. Jeff your point about them getting sent off, who doesnt these days. When Dave Edmunson was in charge he had a superb defence and Mathews was a part of it. Infact im sure Waikato would love to have Mathews Strom Pearce Wylie as there back for again. However that is not the case so lets move on.

Sloth fair points those two players arnt exactly waikato based or from the region.

Why don't we scrap the Phoenix and give New South Wales a fourth team?

Stupid comment. As everyone on this site likes to remind us the Phoenix are professional and national league is not. Comparisons are pointless. The make up of the Waikato team every year is made up of Auckland players. Year in year out. Fact. Dnt get me wrong Waikato players need to be represents. But do we want the national league to be as strong as possible? Yes. Then doesn't it make sense to have a south Auckland based team and have 3 or 4 Waikato players travel up than 14 traveling down. And if we want Waikato in there then fine. But there should be a 3rd Auckland team no doubt.

P.s Jeff vader do you have personal issues with those players? They are not involved at all this year. Why talk about them. Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder.

No not at all. The point I was trying to make was that people are saying there are not enough Waikato players but when you take into account  a couple that are in Auckland, 4 on the side watching and 1 in Queenstown, there aren't many Waikato players left to pick. I've think that Jeff, Matt and Steve are good roosters.

This has been one of the more reasoned discussions on this forum, but just a comment in defence of Alex barlow and Sam margetts, following on from Sloth's comments.

Bruce, explain the Barlow leaving Melville. Has his well known smug attitude let him down again?

Cant understand why Chewins didnt want to play. Old, but classy player. Also did Paul Stewart not make the squad, why? Wanderers Matt Gibbons is a class above Barlow. Also Wanderers english import Howie should have been included in that squad if he was still around, he ran the show for Wanderers in the back half of the season.

Bruce this wasnt an attack at those players but mearly an example to others saying we should have local players and what do you call local, I fully consider them as local in every way

Tangata Whenua? Can we please stick to English. I along with probably many others on here do not understand the Maori language. I speak French though should I start making my points in French? No need to be PC we are having a football debate not running for parliament.

Wow, Sloth, 3 Waikato players out of two squads of 20 odd. I'm no mathematician but this is around 5 - 10%. Let's consider this years Waikato squad - 10 out of the starting 11 are Aucklanders, and I would hazard a guess that there are more in the squad. Lets take a conservative estimate of 60%. You have just proved my point. There is more talent in Auckland than in Waikato that is not being used or being forced to travel. Now backed up by statistics.

Ignore the odd overseas import, from my point of view it is pointless to this debate. I am not saying that Waikato should be all Waikato players as others are. I am saying that based on player talent it makes no sense to have 2 Auckland franchises and a Waikato franchise. Surely we want our National League to be the strongest possible. With the best players. This is not schoolboy stuff where each reigon has to be "represented". Don't often hear the argument there are too many London teams in the premier league. Clearly, to get the best possible standard an additional Auckland Franchise makes sense. Interested to hear others thoughts?

Seriously, grow up. English is a bastard language which steals words from everywhere. Do you object to going to a "restaurant", singing "karaoke", ordering a "stein" of beer, wearing "pajamas" or eating "curry"... or is it just Maori words borrowed into English which upset you?
Doloras2010-10-22 13:42:31

It is also an offical language so it pays not to be ignorant of common Maori terms.

Terry i agree with majority of your points. Theres no doubt scraping waikato and giving auckland a 3rd team would be beneficial for the league. Waikato best players dont even want to play for the franchise so give auckland a 3rd team and those few talented youngsters can travel north and develop with aucklands next best.

I have generally also been impressed by Matt Gibbons whenever I have seen him.

Bruce seems Waikato baord has never been onto it.

When I have seen Gibbons play for Wanderers he has looked a class above. I believe he has also been to the UK recently for trials???

As for Edge and his players...? I have seen them a few times and I don't think many/any of them are that flash apart from the Green lad, Josh I think it is? He looks quality but hard to tell when he is playing with 10-18 yr olds.. He really should be playing at a decent level instead of training with and playing against little kids.

Hi all

the issue is the antagonism between the waikato northern league sides, really it should be coached by steve williams and his coaching team and players from other sides trial for it and then let them get on with it - could guarantee a better side then....just musings for the day

Alex barlow broken leg in 3 places at u19 tournament in napier out for around 7months or more

cripes that happen today? whom he playing for

He was playing for ECB and Willy.

First of all, kids will play, regardless of the situation. The thought of preservation or consequences does not come first. So if someone says 'Wanna play?' they naturally think 'yeah sure' without thinking 'well if I injure myself, I'm screwed so no I wont thanks'

Secondly I would guess that Milicich would be there watching teams and players for his u20 squad......

I don't see where Declan Edge fits into this.

Milicich and Hedge both there watching.

That makes it 2 players in a week Waikato FC have lost with Ryan Zogby heading overseas as well. Tough Times.