Manchester United

Well done Wayne Rooney. One of the most talented players around.

Hull had more passes, more shots, more chances and more possession

Miles better than us on the day.

We were shocking. However three Wembley finals in under 12 months must say something. Most clubs don't do that in a lifetime.

Does anyone have thoughts / facts to say what came first - finances or league success? 

The cash comment prompted my thoughts and not only for United, so I am interested to find some stats / do some analysis for the premier league and the total revenue of a club vs league position, but going back more than a few years (25?). 

There would obviously be clear cases like Manchester City but i dont know if it would be possible to look at something like this. You would have to analyse the trend in the total revenues and the trend in league position and then see what increased first. 

From a United point of view, it would be good to (hopefully) see that earlier trophies brought in finances, which subsequently helped win trophies. .

6th.

They also had a ridiculous penalty and a stone-cold United penalty ignored.

But who's counting?

No no.   1st. The biggest. 

Fancy forgetting Liverpool.

In league titles Utd are ahead of Arsenal.

1st in an arbitrary argument about "biggest", 6th in an actual league table.

Probably 1st in biggest Twits as fans though.

Perhaps, but still the most successful team in English football.

In your lifetime Arsenal will never be close.

Manchester United also made the clever decision to float on the stock exchange very early on, and made an enormous amount of money off the back of it. That is what all the "green and gold scarfs", "United is not for sale" protests a few years back all the funnier - supporters who watched their team benefit financially for a number of years throwing their toys out of the pram because some people they didn't like had bought their publicly listed company.

United fans are not the smartest bunch though.

Kids like you are why people revel in utd's mediocrity under 3 has-been managers.

I wasn't joining in some pissing contest over whose club is biggest anyway, I was responding to Tekker's post about the relationship between money and league success. The point I'm trying to make is that Man U's success in the 90s coincided with 100s of millions of people watching the English top flight for the first time. This made Man U a massive global brand and produced way more revenue for them than previous spells of success and domestic dominance had done for other clubs.

3 has-been managers.  Have you been living in some remote part of the world in the last few years?

Jose has won the EPL,The Football League Cup,FA Community Shield,La Liga and the Champions League in the last 5/6  years.

This suggests that success is seasonal. That given infinite opportunities we would all experience everything, every possible permutation. However, there is an opposite view which is that character holds true and even given infinite universes we wouldn't make choices that were against our character like committing serious crimes and that kind of thing.

Stoke, I'd like to point out, have never won the league.

Neither have the majority of the teams.

Only because of Munich.

It was not the Munich disaster itself. It was Busby rebuilding the side with players like Best, Law and a survivor named Charlton. They then went on to be the first English team to win the European Cup.

 I hardly think  Chapecoense will become a world famous club because of their disaster.

Yeah good point. The ten years after that leading up to the European Cup win are also a massive reason. But they traded off what happened between February 58 and May 68 hugely to try and stay relevant when they went 26 years without a title and were relegated during that period.

Whether Chapecoense become world famous or not isn't that relevant. Although that largely depends on whether they market themselves on the plane crash like United did or not.

Duncan Edwards was the gift that started a new born Man United along with other round one Busby Babes.

This season United also have the distinction of being the most in debt club in the world, despite making a conveyer belt of money.

Man Utd had become arguably the most popular club in England even before the Munich air crash. Their rise in prominence really dates from 1946 and Busby's reign as manager.Their style of play and team members( including Pearson, Rowley, Delaney, Mitten and captain Johnny Carey) in the period preceding Munich made them very popular; they played stylish attacking football that made them many fans " favourite second team ". As that team broke up Busby gave youth a chance, which lots of fans like seeing: the tragedy of Munich came along and in a sad way cemented their position in English football's elite. Busby's holy grail journey in the sixties simply added another dollop on top...

It is United fans whom know the real history of their club that I can respect, not the ones whom think it all kicked off in 1994.

I'm not denying Man U's history, but cynical ol' me thinks that counted for diddly squat in the scheme of things when United made heaps of money from global marketing, sponsorship and image rights. They made that money because they were winning at the time and because they had highly marketable players, the most obvious of which was Beckham. I see plenty of young kids wearing Barcelona shirts these days, and I'm pretty sure it's because of Messi, not Johann Cruyff...

To be successful you sometimes need a bit of luck.

We were a top club long before the EPL, but got a manager who had a vision (and he nearly got sacked) and things went from there.

JM will do a similar job to AF.

I think that's an unfair comment to make but I can see where you are coming from.

I was born in 1986, never watched any televised football until I was 10 years old and at that point saw some clips of Ryan Giggs and thought he was an absolutely phenomenal player, hence I started following United. We never had Sky growing up but I always made an effort to steal Dads newspaper and read the results and anything I could about United.

When I moved out of home the first thing I did was get Sky and ever since I religiously ( unless drunken nights don't allow ) get up in the early hours of the morning and watch them play live. I went to England for two years and was lucky enough to attend a few games at OT including SAFs last ever home game vs Swansea and Champions League vs Bayern Munich.

I do make an effort to understand the clubs history but it doesn't come as easily to me as it does to people who were actually around in these eras :)

Even when they were relegated they had the highest attendance in England. That supporter base allowed them to break British transfer records like Robson in '81 and put them in a position to compete once the EPL came around.

Your last sentence is the important one. You go backwards and learn the history. Take the time and you will be very surprised what you can learn.

With the internet these days it is easy as. Such as in 1904 did you know Man United played QPR in the Charity Shield? Or what were United known before they adopted their current name. History, it is all history which fans really should be making the effort to know. Of course this is not limited to United but for every club.

In the fever zone I have a Palace fan, Derby Country, Preston North End and Forest fan around me and listening to them and learning more and more is a lot of fun. If Hatter reads this he will be pleased to know that Stockport County played FC United the other day. Coming back to this thread, FC United, a club created by United fans. OK, it may have been in protest, but it is an important fact involving Man United.

Come off it Leggy! SAF was something else. Comparing Mourinho to him is ridiculous. Jose has never cared about anything other than his own personal glory, the selfish prick. You might end up with a title, but it will come at a cost, both on and off the field. Ferguson built and nurtured the club across four different decades. The two are polar opposites in terms of football management and Jose will never come close to repeating anything Ferguson did, at Man Utd or anywhere else for that matter.

That is your opinion. You hate Jose so anything you say will be biased. He has always wanted to be at Utd and that is why I think he will do well. At 54 he has won more than AF had at the same age.

Mr nice guys are rarely successful in football management and AF was no exception.

SAF had his own vision and stuck with it. He took on board what Busby had done and did something similar. He was given the money and support and managed to make it happen. NOT a big fan especially with his refereeing watch that said the game can't finish until United equalise or win, but I do has immense respect for his record that will stand up to any scrutiny. He certainly had a gift, knew it and made the most of it in the best interests of the club.