Group A: New Zealand | Norway | Philippines | Switzerland

mw4liverpool

siac

By my calculations (please correct me if I'm wrong):

If we lose to SUI, we miss the R16.
If we beat SUI, we make the R16
If we draw vs SUI, things depend on the Norway vs PHL match.

For the Norway vs PHL match (if we draw vs SUI):
Draw, we would qualify over PHL on better GD
PHL win by 2 goals+, we miss the R16
PHL win by 1 goal, it will comes down to GF (If GF is equal PHL qualify based on 'points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned')
Norway win by 2 goals+, we miss the R16.
Norway win by 1 goal, it will come down to GF (If GF is equal we qualify based on 'points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned')

The GF means that if Norway or PHL are to win by a single goal, ideally it is 1-0, not 3-2, etc. Likewise a higher scoring draw is better for us in this tie breaker scenario.

I think most likely though is that Norway will win by more than 1 goal vs PHL and we need to beat SUI!

 if we draw and PHI beats NOR, we are out, irrespective of score..

Yeah, I'm an idiot they would then be on 6 points to our 4. I have edited my comment now.

Fenix

Rusty Dunks

Stott and Esson very weak for the goal, but I was impressed with how the Philippines strikers were direct and aggressive, right to the end. The Philippines were well organised, and we were frantic. Even though we had the lions share off possession, our final third was poor. 

Very impressed with Anton and Bott, they're really good. Steinmetz caught out a few times. Olivia Chance was poor, and Longo MIA. 

Hopefully Jale has done enough to start the next match. I'd be tempted to put Leat in too.....Esson's kicking has little power, so I'm only guessing Leat has more oomph. The Philippines keeper had a massive kick on her. 

Yeah.  Shame Anton didnt play!

Haha, oops! Embarrassing!
Who am I thinking off? 
Edit: Bowen!! Bowen has been excellent. 

Personally I'm not too fussed on the VAR call, if the Philippines had scored from that position I'd be calling it offside too and think VAR is fantastic.

To me this offside call is just providing cover for the coach for what was frankly a terrible game plan. The fact that we had so much possession and yet we're hanging our hats on a VAR call shows how little creativity there was up front. Very poor all around and the blame sits with the coach from changing nothing.

Monto

Personally I'm not too fussed on the VAR call, if the Philippines had scored from that position I'd be calling it offside too and think VAR is fantastic.

To me this offside call is just providing cover for the coach for what was frankly a terrible game plan. The fact that we had so much possession and yet we're hanging our hats on a VAR call shows how little creativity there was up front. Very poor all around and the blame sits with the coach from changing nothing.

Remember they have been targeting this game for months,and have had a month's pre tournament camp!

No reward was on show for that preparation!

Bott’s passing drove me nuts. Hand and Bowen where the bright lights. Wilkinson touches and run totally ineffective. And coach decision not to risk everything and bring Satchell or Clegg to create some havoc in the last 20 min I don’t understand.
The goal was chain reaction of poor decisions, starting with a pass into a crowded area and a resulting foul, followed by not able to clear the ball three times and a keeper fumbling around.

Would be interested to see a closer replay of Wilkinson keeping the ball in before the cross for the disallowed goal. In real time I thought it had gone out, but then they never showed a check on that with the offside happening before. 
Don't know that it's a foregone conclusion Norway beat Philippines either. They've been terrible and not looked close to scoring in two games so they would have to be significantly better than the shambles they have been so far. In any case, you're always going to need a result in two games to go through.

How did the trains cope with this one for anyone who went?

ajc28

Would be interested to see a closer replay of Wilkinson keeping the ball in before the cross for the disallowed goal. In real time I thought it had gone out, but then they never showed a check on that with the offside happening before. 
Don't know that it's a foregone conclusion Norway beat Philippines either. They've been terrible and not looked close to scoring in two games so they would have to be significantly better than the shambles they have been so far. In any case, you're always going to need a result in two games to go through.

How did the trains cope with this one for anyone who went?

They did show a replay of Wilkinson keeping the ball in, and it was definitely in.

Not that it makes much of a difference.

Not surprised by the dissappointement on here and other socials. The event was awesome, however! 32k packed into the stadium, so many Phillipine fans! The hype machine pre-game and during the half time break was cool too. Something the A-league could work with for mine.

As for the game, pretty simple really - we dominated possession and ha dthem defending hard for most of the game. Unfortunately only 1 or 2 of our shots were on target and actually tested their keeper. They had 3 shots and scored. Wilkenson is pretty much a one trick pony, she is ok in the air and has the physical attributes to win the ball over most defeders. Her touch, and passing, crossing is pretty average. Their goal was well desereved, their #7 managed to get above two of our defenders, neither of who appeared to make any effort to jump for the ball. Esson was unlucky not to get more nehind the ball, it looked like it was hit at her head and she couldn't get her hands behind it. Maybe could have done better. 

The offside call was technically fair and was always gonna be called back, sad but true, Hand should have scored when she hit the post! 1-1 would have been a fiar result given the defence from the Phillipines. Their keeper was time wasting from the moment they scored. 
This was almost inevitable, their defence was rock solid and desperate and our attack just wasnt up to breaking it down depsite the possession stats.

We must beat the Swiss, or at least draw and hope the Phillipines carry on doing what they do locking a game down.

theprof

Not surprised by the dissappointement on here and other socials. The event was awesome, however! 32k packed into the stadium, so many Phillipine fans! The hype machine pre-game and during the half time break was cool too. Something the A-league could work with for mine.

As for the game, pretty simple really - we dominated possession and ha dthem defending hard for most of the game. Unfortunately only 1 or 2 of our shots were on target and actually tested their keeper. They had 3 shots and scored. Wilkenson is pretty much a one trick pony, she is ok in the air and has the physical attributes to win the ball over most defeders. Her touch, and passing, crossing is pretty average. Their goal was well desereved, their #7 managed to get above two of our defenders, neither of who appeared to make any effort to jump for the ball. Esson was unlucky not to get more nehind the ball, it looked like it was hit at her head and she couldn't get her hands behind it. Maybe could have done better. 

The offside call was technically fair and was always gonna be called back, sad but true, Hand should have scored when she hit the post! 1-1 would have been a fiar result given the defence from the Phillipines. Their keeper was time wasting from the moment they scored. 
This was almost inevitable, their defence was rock solid and desperate and our attack just wasnt up to breaking it down depsite the possession stats.

We must beat the Swiss, or at least draw and hope the Phillipines carry on doing what they do locking a game down.

 Yeah, atmosphere was great with all the Phillipines fans. They played a game straight out of the NZ playbook tbh, we play that game nine times out of ten at international level so it's a bit rich that people were so critical of it (booing the time wasting, deliberate fouls etc.). Though I suspect the most vocal criticism of those things was from more casual fans who don't understand the joy of a cynical 1-0 win where part-timers from the A-league kick the shark out of Champions League stars on million dollar wages. 

theprof

Not surprised by the dissappointement on here and other socials. The event was awesome, however! 32k packed into the stadium, so many Phillipine fans! The hype machine pre-game and during the half time break was cool too. Something the A-league could work with for mine.

As for the game, pretty simple really - we dominated possession and ha dthem defending hard for most of the game. Unfortunately only 1 or 2 of our shots were on target and actually tested their keeper. They had 3 shots and scored. Wilkenson is pretty much a one trick pony, she is ok in the air and has the physical attributes to win the ball over most defeders. Her touch, and passing, crossing is pretty average. Their goal was well desereved, their #7 managed to get above two of our defenders, neither of who appeared to make any effort to jump for the ball. Esson was unlucky not to get more nehind the ball, it looked like it was hit at her head and she couldn't get her hands behind it. Maybe could have done better. 

The offside call was technically fair and was always gonna be called back, sad but true, Hand should have scored when she hit the post! 1-1 would have been a fiar result given the defence from the Phillipines. Their keeper was time wasting from the moment they scored. 
This was almost inevitable, their defence was rock solid and desperate and our attack just wasnt up to breaking it down depsite the possession stats.

We must beat the Swiss, or at least draw and hope the Phillipines carry on doing what they do locking a game down.

We started off being dominate but then rather than going forward quickly and playing the simple ball we played slowly sideways into dangerous areas in our own half.
Then as we started to run out of ideas we were hoofing poorly directed  long balls into the box which were easily dealt with.

There were a number of times when a simple ball up the line option was discarded by turning away and going across the back.

The second half was a big improvement, but we were let down by some poor skills.

I think a lot of people forget what a good coach Alan Stajcic is.  

There is just enough of a chance for me to have hope.... Which means it will sting so much more if we lose the next game.

Mainland FC

I think a lot of people forget what a good coach Alan Stajcic is.  

Yeh I worried when I saw his name 

seems not everything is going so well in the Norwegian camp.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fifa-womens-world-cup-2023/300935996/my-hands-are-tied-norway-star-caroline-graham-hansen-lashes-out-after-starting-on-bench-in-fifa-womens-world-cup

theprof

seems not everything is going so well in the Norwegian camp.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fifa-womens-world-cup-2023/300935996/my-hands-are-tied-norway-star-caroline-graham-hansen-lashes-out-after-starting-on-bench-in-fifa-womens-world-cup

 hopefully that doesn't spark them up to thrash Phillipines 

I have a feeling it might do the opposite, I reckon they'll struggle.

theprof

I have a feeling it might do the opposite, I reckon they'll struggle.

Hopefully it fires their defence up so they don't let any goals in, and they manage to bang in 1 lucky goal.  That's the best result for us right?  Because then their for and against would be in line with ours now.  Then if we draw I think we get through?

Fitzy

theprof

Not surprised by the dissappointement on here and other socials. The event was awesome, however! 32k packed into the stadium, so many Phillipine fans! The hype machine pre-game and during the half time break was cool too. Something the A-league could work with for mine.

As for the game, pretty simple really - we dominated possession and ha dthem defending hard for most of the game. Unfortunately only 1 or 2 of our shots were on target and actually tested their keeper. They had 3 shots and scored. Wilkenson is pretty much a one trick pony, she is ok in the air and has the physical attributes to win the ball over most defeders. Her touch, and passing, crossing is pretty average. Their goal was well desereved, their #7 managed to get above two of our defenders, neither of who appeared to make any effort to jump for the ball. Esson was unlucky not to get more nehind the ball, it looked like it was hit at her head and she couldn't get her hands behind it. Maybe could have done better. 

The offside call was technically fair and was always gonna be called back, sad but true, Hand should have scored when she hit the post! 1-1 would have been a fiar result given the defence from the Phillipines. Their keeper was time wasting from the moment they scored. 
This was almost inevitable, their defence was rock solid and desperate and our attack just wasnt up to breaking it down depsite the possession stats.

We must beat the Swiss, or at least draw and hope the Phillipines carry on doing what they do locking a game down.

 Yeah, atmosphere was great with all the Phillipines fans. They played a game straight out of the NZ playbook tbh, we play that game nine times out of ten at international level so it's a bit rich that people were so critical of it (booing the time wasting, deliberate fouls etc.). Though I suspect the most vocal criticism of those things was from more casual fans who don't understand the joy of a cynical 1-0 win where part-timers from the A-league kick the shark out of Champions League stars on million dollar wages. 

Oh but I am so so sick of seeing this narratives from international and Australian media like it was some great amazing upset. 

What champions league stars on million dollar wages do the Football Ferns have? Let's face it - one bad team lost to another bad team that they were expected to beat. NZ are not a global favourite, we are not even close, we get beaten most of the time we play European opposition and get smashed by the USA. 

Well done to the Philippines on their win (lucky as it was) - but this David v Goliath shark is clown as fudge

if we win we end up on 6 and through,
if we draw we end on 4 (assuming Swiss and Philly draw then goal difference will determine second, we are on 0 and Philly are -1)
If we lose against the Swiss we are toast.
It all comkes down to the last game obviously and we need to win to keep it in our own hands, otherwise we are hoping for a draw which would leave Philly on 4 and Norway on 2.

Watching the discourse on offside is interesting.

The tough part is no matter what the rule is, there are some that are going to be offside by a cm.

Add any grey area in its going to only add more controversy.  Why was X example offside why Y example was deemed not offside.

It sucks being at the receiving end of the call with a game defining moment, but it's one of the few rules that is black and white and can be determined with a black and white image.

If we draw 0-0 with Switzerland, Norway must score at least twice vs the Phillipines to take second from us, a 1-0 win for them would see us level on points, GD & GS and see us go through on H2H. Any draw and they need a 2 goal win or a 1 goal win in which they score two more than we do vs Switzerland. 

That missed Percival penalty would have all but ensured that only the Phillipines could realistically take second from us. But as it stands, given Norway are yet to score, it almost feels more likely that the Phillipines get a 1 goal win than Norway gets a 2 goal win or a high scoring 1 goal win

Is a GPS type system used for offside? Don't all players run around with a tracking system during games to measure their loading? Couldn't they use the position of the GPS as the reference point for off side? 

watching_from_far

Is a GPS type system used for offside? Don't all players run around with a tracking system during games to measure their loading? Couldn't they use the position of the GPS as the reference point for off side? 

Fifa use a complex system of player tracking and even sensors in the ball to calculate when it was kicked. GPS wouldn't be anywhere near as accurate and even then, you're just shifting the arbitrary line.

What point of the body is it measured from? This doesn't seem to be consistent... Spain just scored a goal and was onside by a toe but she looked more offside compared to Wilkinson last night.

Feel like we have to go out there for the win vs Switzerland. Leave nothing up to chance. 

Spain player was definitely onside.

On Wilkinson - the image is misleading because both players arms are ahead of them. You need to totally ignore the arms as they are irrelevant for the purposes of offside. Wilkinson's head is beyond any point (other than the arms) of the Philippines player.

Could you not say that about the Spanish player was beyond the defender apart from the defenders toe?

image.png 4.37 MB

watching_from_far

Could you not say that about the Spanish player was beyond the defender apart from the defenders toe?

image.png 4.37 MB

You can say anything you like, but the Laws of the Game are quite clear on what constitutes offside. 
This is NOT offside. 

That's a true statement... but the offside line is drawn at the toe, the defender's toe literally keeps her onside.

Unfortunately, I watched the replay.
Being positive, Hand and Bowen look like good footballers.
Bott, was great in the first game, had a shocker in this one really.
Percival was a complete waste of space, and negative with it. Steinmetz hardly better and Hassett ineffective and out of position in amongst that lot.
Stott, pretty damn dreadful.
NZ team cohesion after a months training camp 0/10.

watching_from_far

What point of the body is it measured from? This doesn't seem to be consistent... Spain just scored a goal and was onside by a toe but she looked more offside compared to Wilkinson last night.

 The determining points are any part of the body that can legitimately touch the ball i.e. everything but the arms and hands.  

watching_from_far

Is a GPS type system used for offside? Don't all players run around with a tracking system during games to measure their loading? Couldn't they use the position of the GPS as the reference point for off side? 

See articles such as https://www.fifa.com/technical/football-technology/football-technologies-and-innovations-at-the-fifa-world-cup-2022/semi-automated-offside-technology

FBRef have detailed stats for the Womens World Cup games

NZ stats https://fbref.com/en/squads/eb8b58bd/New-Zealand-Women-Stats

Stats for the Philippines game https://fbref.com/en/matches/03ea5812/New-Zealand-Philippines-July-25-2023-FIFA-Womens-World-Cup

2.0 xG - 0.4 xG
A lot of play goes through our full backs, Riley 120 touches then Bott 102 touches and Bowen 87 touches
Steinmetz 53% passing which I didn't pick up during the game
Wilkinson 5/14 aerial duels

ClubOranje

watching_from_far

Could you not say that about the Spanish player was beyond the defender apart from the defenders toe?

image.png 4.37 MB

You can say anything you like, but the Laws of the Game are quite clear on what constitutes offside. 
This is NOT offside. 

It does show how much luck is involved though aye.  It's literally the moment of the two players legs positions in their strides that could have had her massively offside or onside.

But as you say.  Very clear based in the rules.

watching_from_far

What point of the body is it measured from? This doesn't seem to be consistent... Spain just scored a goal and was onside by a toe but she looked more offside compared to Wilkinson last night.

as far as I know it works on any point of the body you can legally score from, which is why an arm, hand in front of the defender is ok, if part of your head/foot/body is in front them your offside, even if it is a mm

Damn, was hoping the games tonight would be back to back as I was gonna be watching both.  Looks like they are at the same time so gonna make things interesting.

Let's Gone Ferns!  Win it and keep your fates in your own hands.

Yeah final group games always play the same time to ensure a proper game with teams not knowing the exact result needed. Was decided after Germany and Austria fixed a match in the 1986 men's WC to ensure they both went through with the other result already known. Going to need two screens for tonight. First world problems!

I didnt expect the team to beat Norway, was at the game and they deserved their win, they played out of their skins.
Norway however have some real problems and we got them on their worst day.  Everyone was halfway expecting a result against the Phillipines but reality kicked in and we lost.
I am pretty pessimistic about the Swiss game, our age old problem of not much in the goal scoring dept is the main fear I have. 
Hope Im as completely wrong about this as I was with the Norway game. Imagine if we were to qualify and the Aussies didnt....

ajc28

Yeah final group games always play the same time to ensure a proper game with teams not knowing the exact result needed. Was decided after Germany and Austria fixed a match in the 1986 men's WC to ensure they both went through with the other result already known. Going to need two screens for tonight. First world problems!

Yea that does make sense.

I imagine given how up in the air the group is that they will be updating us throughout.

We definitely have enough to win this game. But we have to score a goal first of all. Wilkinson- from a set piece or on the end of a counter attack. Hand or IP Riley can, Jale can, Clegg can, Chance can, Longo can. We have options for scoring the goal we need. Maybe it’s just the bounce of the ball that Will decide it. Football Ferns, it’s time for you to show the World what you can do! A good start would be to re-watch the game against Norway. That will remind them of what they are capable of. Fingers, toes and everything else crossed for tonight’s match.