Andrew Durante (Melbourne Victory | A-Leagues)

Shark never realized our leaking goals problem was all down to him.

It wasn't.
1. A teenage goalkeeper experiment
2. A centre back partner who couldn't be bothered playing
3. A constantly changing back four
4. Changes of coach

5. Passenger playing defensive mid. 

Durante was the Nix's best defender in 2018 IMO

Last season conceded 46 goals and the season before 54. So where is the problem?

You spelled Fox wrong

Dura has been poor for at least 2 seasons.

Agree, but he  had a lot  better players around him and that in itself will make a big difference.

I don't think correlation equals causation in that Dura has played about 75% of the games in the past 2 years and our defense has been poor - Ridenton has played the same amount of games; how much blame does he carry? Tom Doyle has played 70% of the games in the past 2 seasons, is he to blame? Scapegoating one player is a bit shark.

I would argue that defensive personnel changes is a bigger issue - we went something like 20 games in a row with a change in defensive personnel last season and was similar the season before. Is Dura secretly injuring players, getting them suspended or AW call ups?

Since you ask, in the 24 games where Ridenton started, the Nix collected 24% of points available. In the three where he didn't start, all vs opponents who finished in the top 6, they scored 4/9 available points, or 44% Small sample size admittedly. 

To that I'd add that the Nix looked far better in one game after he was subbed for Singh, though the result was not affected. 

I don't have stats on Doyle but IMO his touch and general play have improved in the past  2 years. 

By the same token, you can't completely absolve him of the responsibility. The fact is that he's been our most senior defender and leader, and he's overseen poor defensive records for a number of years. Yes, a lot of that is due to poor structure but a lot of that has been due to poor individual defending as well; I don't think that can be ignored.

I also don't think we can ignore the fact that he's in the twilight of his career; I, for one, was surprised he didn't retire at the end of last season. I thought it was about time.

Re: Doyle - he's a full blooded defender who still has the same old positional deficiencies. I've always seen his characteristics as suiting the CB role rather than FB, personally. He constantly fails to track his runner and gets caught for pace. 

The other thing is that, like you say, this isn't an issue of 2 seasons - we have been the worst defensive team in the league since Ricki's last year until now. That's six seasons, in which we made the playoffs only once (after we made them three times in the first five). Durante has been the one constant across this era, both as a member of the defensive unit, and the leadership group. 

If there's a consensus on this forum that the last 5-6 seasons have generally been a shambles, why are people so keen to absolve Durante of playing almost any part of that? It's just curious, considering the crap a number of other players have got through that time.

I still think Dura was an equal to Fox last season as our best CBs; Fox being able to recover due to his athleticism but let down positionally at times while Dura was better positionally and better with the ball. 

That's a very generous view of Durante's role in the success years. He was far from being the 'one constant', at best he was an important cog in the team, but far from being the critical member of it. The best season we ever had, in 2009/2010, we had Jon McKain being the key man at the back with Liam Reddy in the form of his life in goal, Siggy who provided the steel, and altogether a more defensive set-up. Not to mention that Durante was a lot younger then as well. Or is that another one of his many qualities, that he doesn't age at all?

Been waiting for Boxey to see this. Had my popcorn (shrimp) all ready to go.

Is that Dura's fault that we haven't had a decent 'keeper or CB partner as good as McKain or Siggy? Or a midfield of Lia, Muscat and Brown?

Im not in any way trying to absolving Durante for our defensive frailties.People seem pretty keen to lay most of the blame at him yet wasnt he also part of a defensive unit under Ricki that had a very good record. Just dont think its right that most of the blame is being put his way.Yep he was part of a defensive unit that worked really well,not so sure that the blame can be all his if the club hasnt provided the players to maintain that level.

Can we please stop comparing Dura's performances for the AW's (which were mediocre, lets be honest; though his last handful were better) to his Nix performances? In the All Whites setup, we're usually forced to play overly defensive football because of the opposition we are up against. In the A-League, this is not the expectation as it's a salary capped league where every team should realistically try and setup to attack the opposition.

Personally I just think Dura is a spent force who has given his all for the team. I feel a little sorry for him that he hasn't been able to experience any success with us, as his commitment could never be called into question; but his performances have largely been poor.

"you can't completely admonish him of the responsibility"

I think he's being admonished quite a lot on here.

Anyway I absolve him.

I read that again and shook my head at my own English. My old English teacher is sitting in the corner with a ruler, ready to slap my head.

It's ok, he will admonish you.

The easiest solution for our defence is to stop fudgeing passing the ball around the back and putting each other under unwarrented extra pressure. (We are NOT the Liverpool team of the 70's guys.) So frigged off with this constant "back to Durante, back to the keeper" crap. Play the ball forward and keep it at the other end of the park.

Added a sentence and fixed my spelling.

All our defenders are pretty bad at opening a game, creating a danger in attack, it drives me nuts!

The problem really is that the club invested too much in him, and for too long, and that was one (but certainly not the only) of the reasons why it has been difficult to upgrade the defensive personnel over the least few years (salary capped league and all that). Now guess that that's not really his fault directly, but it doesn't mean that we can't call it out for what it was, a mistake that's been difficult to shake off for a few years.

lets face it, over the last 6 seasons we havent even had what anyone would consider a half decent defensive unit, including Dura. Early on he was a great leader and had a massive positive effect on the field and off. The last couple of seasons it has been clear to most that he has been very frustrated with the onfield results and his fellow defensive players and the refs. His positive influence has well and truely gone. Hopefully Rudan can reinvigorate this - assuming dura remains capt. The fault has not solely been Dura's but as the capt, senior defensive man he has to take a large part of the responsibility for the failings and conceding of goals.

And this is what Mark Rudan has said about the signing of Kurto, first and foremost it's about a keeper who can save shots, playing it out from the back is not his number one priority. 

There's a change of philosophy here, a back-to-basics of goalkeepers saving, defenders defending as their main jobs. Dura will be asked to focus on defending more, getting the ball to safety rather than trying to embrace current football trends like a keeper-sweeper. Becuase it hasn't worked for us, doing it the other way, has it?

The more I hear from Mark Rudan, the more I like.

I disagree. Not number one priority? Good keepers have to play out from the back. I thought we are going for highest standards? And I have an example, Belgium v England. Pickford cleared a ball, throw in Belgium, Courtis cleared the ball, 5 touches later, goal Belgium. This is just an extreme example, but if you rewatch the game, you'll spot the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_5SJPKMHAA 

Yeah cool just sign Courtois then. Or Alisson while we're at it, to warm the bench behind Courtois. Definitely not Pickford though.

The comparison is nonsense - 'highest standards' and 'back to basics' are not mutually exclusive.

Implying that only top keepers are able to pass out from the back and do their keeping job to a decent standard is a bit nonsense too.

Well this is all kind of a fundamental philosophical point in football isn't it? Either your keeper is just another footballer, who happens to get to use his hands in one part of the pitch, or he's basically a handball player who also gets to use his feet. It's hard to be in-between, because that's expecting every keeper to be amazing at everything.

Andrew 300

Well this thread just took a massive turn...

Like the Cruyff turn: the Durante turn.

To be fair, he’s been very solid throughout the season and that always helps with fan opinion.

Think he has really benefited this season from Kurto in goal and Taylor next to him. It's allowed him to concentrate more on his own defending when he can trust those two to do their jobs. 

needs to bring his A game tonight  that's for sure

Hopefully we can save a sub to bring on for Durante to get a big standing ovation tonight