Its Summer! - the Fever Cricket Thread. (Part 2)

So, when India were in NZ 4 years ago and destroyed us, that was because we were bad or because India were good? Just trying to figure out when the Black Caps are allowed to get some credit...

When they perform against SA, Australia and England

Yep. This whole thread basically has two arguments:
Black Caps win = opposition is sh*t
Black Caps lose = Black Caps are sh*t

We have talent in Southee, Boult, Wagner, Watling, Taylor, Guptill and Williamson. The others are interchangeable depending on who has hit the most boundaries recently. Sodhi is a raw prospect and Anderson is a purple patch like David Warner gets into (wogger) but he will be found out. I see Bennett and Milne are back after being raved about as the next big things (that weren't). Say, wasn't Gillespie the next big thing too? What about Bracewell? McClenaghan is being talked up as the next big thing too. Wonder what he will do?

As for pyjama cricket, I rate the results in the test match arena because that's where it counts for me. The day we get whitewashed by Bangladesh in ODI and/or T20 just shows you don't really need any skill to be able to play the game, just 50 overs of luck. I don't mind watching ODI cricket (I used to really enjoy it) but I cannot stand T20. A blight on the game.

Some consistent performance and I'll come around. Until then....

JV makes a point there. We beat SA and England last year in ODI series but got swept by fudgeing Bangladesh.

It would be great to beat India say 4-0 here if we can. But id rather scrape the test series against them.

Is Hamilton the new home of NZ Cricket? One dayer against West Indies and two of the first four one dayers against India?
Whats with that? I'm not a huge follower of cricket so is a serious question. I know Christchurch is probably a no go but what about Dunedin or Queenstown?

Pretty decent crowd for all 3 games in Hamilton to their credit, all on weekdays too. Looking forward to the test at the basin in a couple of weeks. 2 sessions on the sunday then stagger off to the RoF....... great stuff!

Wow first Lorde wins and now the Black Craps?

What the fudge is happening? When did the world start rewarding mediocrity? :-P

If you had been on this thread a lot you would see that I absolutely prioritise test match victories. I would prefer a win in whites to a win in colours every time.

However, I am prepared to give credit where it is due. It seems you are not. MS Dhoni and Virat Kholi will probably go down as all time greats, we have comfortably beaten them in a series. Not just the fact we won deserves credit, but they way we have done it.

When we needed someone to deliver with the bat under pressure, McCullum scoring a quick 50 when he was under pressure tonight. Ronchi scoring quick runs when they have been required. Taylor and Williamson batting brilliantly all series and executing a seriously good game-plan. The bowlers have delivered in the key moments, McLenaghan getting key wickets when required in those early games. Big plays in the field when needed.

This has been a top team performance against a good side. It's sad that you aren't prepared to give credit where it is due, obviously you have been drinking from the same trough as Mark Watson.

I think we'll beat them in the tests now, history shows us that when India are away from home and they start getting beat they struggle to turn it around. If we play the series in anything like helpful conditions then Southee and Boult will go through India and if Nossy and Ross can stay in good nick we should have enough runs in the bank.

But you still haven't answered one of my original questions, if India are so useless away from home and beating them in NZ doesn't count - what are we to make of the series a couple of years ago where they beat us 4-1 in the ODIs and 1-0 in the tests?

JV all your comments say to me is how unattached you are from the NZC team at the moment. For me it seems like you have bottled up every bad moment in the last three/four years, forgotten the rest and made your judgement from that.

The comparison by bopman between you and mark watson is on the money, and you two aren't alone. I just wish these people would stay under their rock win lose or tie.

This team are doing very good things and the results are showing it. Whether people like to admit it or not Hesson and McCullum are the center of it. The recent success has stemmed from them and their vision. McCullum may not be consistently scoring runs but his influence as captain is very much responsible for both team and individual performances since he was made captain. I still don't think the way he became captain was right but the team have forgotten that whole ordeal (Taylor included) and are buying into McCullum's direction.

By all means question decisions and selections and performances but at least try and get in touch with the current team and their ability. Sorry JV you are way off.

To clarify, they have the current crop of players believing in themselves and performing to their potential. If their potential becomes unstuck in tests that's another conversation. ODI's are still held in high redard by the best teams in the world and if we're beating some of them then this team is succeeding.

In my opinion we are making ground in test matches but currently we will still be found out from time to time when our consistency is tested. If we can get to a stage where we win everything at home for a start I'll be happy. From there we can start to think about winning off shore.

T20 just fills a gap in the market - corporate/tv money etc - and is not worth discussing but is still essential for the growth and sustainability of the game.

I think McCullum has been scoring decisive fast runs. Guptill, Taylor and Williamson are our anchors and McCullum, Anderson and Ronchi are there to score at over 100 strike rate, so they take more risks with their shots. I know this is a much easier call after tonight! but all the same we've been winning and I think having McCullum there the opposition is intimidated knowing that if they get through the 3 above he can still take the game away from a team in a 5 over spell of power.

Certainly is more of a question for the tests. I think his test match contribution has been on the low side. If he comes right in tests we could start destroying some teams.

First sentence key.

Taylor, Williamson, Southee, all have had the potential to be top-10 in the world. Hesson and McCullum have them performing like it. Throw Ryder, Boult and possibly Anderson as well and that is a good side who if they deliver to their potential can be as good as any side in the world on their day.

With a CWC on home soil next year, i'm happy for them to throw some serious resource at the 50-over game in the next year. A win in a CWC would be as big as most test series wins, beating Australia in a test series would be the dream though.

Wow, this is some good and reasoned stuff in here for once.

For my part I'm just stoked to see a few of our batsmen get some consistently decent scores, which is something we've lacked in our side for ages. And hopefully a few of them (Taylor, Kane) can transfer that into the tests. Taylor's form this summer in particular has been outstanding, and when he's on form our side rises from being also rans to contenders. He really is the key to our batting line up.

Watling vs Ronchi is interesting, but I don't think Ronchi is ever going to be our test keeper. I couldn't understand why Watling wasn't picked for the ODIs at the start of the summer, but credit to Ronchi he has performed his role (coming in and striking over 100) brilliantly.

My NZ Test Team:

1. Rutherford

2. Latham

3. Williamson (C)

4. Taylor

5. Ryder

6.. Anderson

7. Watling (WK)

8. Southee

9. Boult

10. Sodhi

11. Wagner

I think in 18 months, that will probably be the team you see. Maybe Bennett for Wagner.

I think Latham is ready. Not sure about Bennet's effectiveness after 10 overs and would be worried he'd do a Bondy.

No Guppy?

Here's what I'd like to see (realising it's prob 12-18 mths away - and assuming no injuries... LOL) not far off KN and Bopman.

I hope to see Milne kick on, if he doesn't - either Wagner, Duffy or Henry depending who's fit and in form... Bennett bowls too short for mine, especially now he's lost that extra 5-10km/h he had pre his injury... (but then, whaddoiknow). I also think Sodhi should/will bat at eight based on what I've seen - technically better than those below, defensively sound, able to score quickly as/if required, or hang with the established batsman when he first comes in...

1. Rutherford

2. Latham

3. Williamson (C)

4. Taylor

5. Ryder

6.. Anderson

7. Watling (WK)

8. Sodhi

9. Southee

10. Boult

11. Milne

Buffy Gup has a poor defensive technique so won't see much test match cricket. He has too harder hands and also doesn't play spin too well

You could say that about half our batsmen though.

Guptill's last test innings': 2, 16, 53, 7, 11, 13, 4, 11, 1, 0, 1, 48, 1, 3.

Given the 12039900398 chances Sinclair received in his career, i feel Guppy deserves a crack.

Here's Latham's last test innings too:

Because Sinclair got more chances doesn't mean Guptill automatically should as well. He's proven that he's not a competent test opener. I'm not a massive fan of either Fulton or Rutherford but that form is just atrocious, he needs to get some Plunket Shield runs under his belt before I'd consider him for selection - something Latham has done of late.

EDIT: On second look, he has notched some PS runs recently, but most of them came on the absolute largest road of all time (Ask Topleft about that one). I maintain I'd rather have somebody new - Guptill's ODI form has also been fairly average and that's where he's much more suited, so hardly a promising sign.

Also Sinclair? 

56 innings. Double centuries against the West Indies and Pakistan, as well as a handy 150 against South Africa will have people likely to give you a second crack.

Guptil 59 innings. Centuries (2) against the might of ......Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Take those scores out and he hardly averages over 25. Simply not good enough for a test opener. He only averages over 30 against the two teams above and against the Windies.

I do though think his power strokeplay could be good at number 5, with Macca at number six. I think he's a better bat than Anderson currently, but of course Anderson is an all rounder, not to denigrate Guppy's off breaks. Tough selection. But he's not good enough to open in tests and it would be a backward step.

edit: oh- I'd forgotten he'd already had a crack at number 5. 

averages 68 batting at 5, but including two big scores (189 and 56*) against Bangladesh and then a run of 30, 6, 4, 58 against Australia.

Averages 35 batting at 3 against India and Pakistan.

Sinclair's biggest battle was with himself. He was the most thin skinned batsmen around but if he managed to get on top of the demons in his head he was outstanding. While Gup has a better head on him he still doesn't quite cut it technically. And you're right buffy, a lot of our players have technique issues - Ryder is suffering right now - but Gup hasn't shown he can improve in the right areas even at Plunkett Shield level.

Kane Williamson clapping emoticon

Ross Taylor's hundred was the 5000th in international cricket apparently

Black Caps clapping emoticon.

Every aspect of the way we have performed in this series has been outstanding. Clinical team performances. Big performances from key individuals. Big performances from newcomers into the side. Delivering in pressure moments.

Oh and I see that JV has disappeared from the thread but just like to point out that India won the Champions Trophy in ENGLAND 6 months ago. That's probably quite different to the sub-continent.

Williamson and Taylor have been in insane form.

Good debut from that Henry too. Great name that.

Great to win, especially so convincingly.  Hopefully we can carry the form through to the real cricket now.