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Central League

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over 8 years ago

20 Legend wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Speaking of the bigger picture. I reckon Capital Football and Central Football should make it a requirement of entry into Central League that teams video their matches. A bunch of teams already do it - notably Olympic and Western Suburbs - but I think it should be mandatory.

I believe this has been a rule as low as high school rugby for years now? Mainly for use in policing fights but I completely agree with you.

Relying on it opens up a can of worms though. Did X club delete footage? Block sound? Purposely not film something? etc etc.

Rather than rely on clubs, Capital Football could contract someone in to do it.  Impartiality wouldn't be questioned then

Angrier but more cuddly than a Honey Badger

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over 8 years ago

20 Legend wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Speaking of the bigger picture. I reckon Capital Football and Central Football should make it a requirement of entry into Central League that teams video their matches. A bunch of teams already do it - notably Olympic and Western Suburbs - but I think it should be mandatory.

I believe this has been a rule as low as high school rugby for years now? Mainly for use in policing fights but I completely agree with you.

Relying on it opens up a can of worms though. Did X club delete footage? Block sound? Purposely not film something? etc etc.

Rather than rely on clubs, Capital Football could contract someone in to do it.  Impartiality wouldn't be questioned then

 

How can video be partisan? It shows what it shows. If it shows something, great, if it doesn't it doesn't. I don't think the clubs would want to pay for CF to do it on a commercial basis. They could get a volunteer to do it for free (which is currently what Wests and Olympic do I think, it's usually some kid manning the camera).

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 8 years ago

what's the point of it?

Founder

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over 8 years ago

Feverish wrote:

what's the point of it?

so we can have proof that leftfield is talking out of his ass about incidents

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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over 8 years ago

Feverish wrote:

what's the point of it?

 

Improve the quality of referee education/review. So they can revisit contentious decision after the match and discuss amongst themselves whether it was right or wrong with the benefit of video.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 8 years ago · edited over 8 years ago · History

Smithy wrote:

Feverish wrote:

what's the point of it?

 

Improve the quality of referee education/review. So they can revisit contentious decision after the match and discuss amongst themselves whether it was right or wrong with the benefit of video.

What makes you think this isn't happening already? (It is, and yes, included the Olympic match video.) 

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over 8 years ago

I like Patrick's reason.

Would just open up a whole lot of whinging.

Founder

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over 8 years ago

Smithy wrote:

20 Legend wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Speaking of the bigger picture. I reckon Capital Football and Central Football should make it a requirement of entry into Central League that teams video their matches. A bunch of teams already do it - notably Olympic and Western Suburbs - but I think it should be mandatory.

I believe this has been a rule as low as high school rugby for years now? Mainly for use in policing fights but I completely agree with you.

Relying on it opens up a can of worms though. Did X club delete footage? Block sound? Purposely not film something? etc etc.

Rather than rely on clubs, Capital Football could contract someone in to do it.  Impartiality wouldn't be questioned then

 

How can video be partisan?

Literally outlined examples in my post.

CF doing it would be impractical, but everyone definitely has a stake in it. As a training device for players and refs, a promotional tool for the league, and a review service for the league.

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over 8 years ago · edited over 8 years ago · History

Let me explain myself better.

Refs already spend time being coached  - watching videos, and breaking down decision criteria. Not sure if it third party video i.e fifa resources, or local club replays if it materially matters.

Reviewing video's post game might not be as effective feedback - it might reduce the number of assessments made, given that the assessor is watching all of the game in person, not just where the camera tracks, so to be effective, you'd probably need more time per assessor per game to view the game and then a replay as well. (remember, they are assessing all match officials, not just where the ball is/ camera is following).

I really like working with the assessors. I feel a lot of the value is in the discussion about key match incidents directly after the end of the game/paperwork is done - delaying that to a few days / hours later after a replay is watched might not be as effective.

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over 8 years ago

zonknz wrote:

Let me explain myself better.

Refs already spend time being coached  - watching videos, and breaking down decision criteria. Not sure if it third party video i.e fifa resources, or local club replays if it materially matters.

Reviewing video's post game might not be as effective feedback - it might reduce the number of assessments made, given that the assessor is watching all of the game in person, not just where the camera tracks, so to be effective, you'd probably need more time per assessor per game to view the game and then a replay as well. (remember, they are assessing all match officials, not just where the ball is/ camera is following).

I really like working with the assessors. I feel a lot of the value is in the discussion about key match incidents directly after the end of the game/paperwork is done - delaying that to a few days / hours later after a replay is watched might not be as effective.

 

What referees in Wellington need to face up to is that there is a perception of a lack of openness. A closing of the ranks any time a question is asked.

What the Olympic video above demonstrated, I thought quite clearly, is that open assessment of referees can work both ways. It can highlight errors but also put down unjustified criticism. That last bit is a function not in the least bit served by assessors. Video enables referees to actually engage with coaches and players about decisions, in possession of the cold hard facts of the video. 

The assessor system is also fairly poor as a system of feedback. One man or woman who may or may not be tired, hungry, cold, friends with the referee, not friends with the coach, etc and so on watches the game and tells you if you did a good job or not. Video allows for that review to be moderated by a wider group. Video allows for a deeper and repeated analysis. 

And of course it makes a difference whether you're watching yourself or some FIFA resource. You might learn a lot about golf swings in the abstract watching YouTube, but a video of your golf swing enables personal improvement in a whole new way.

Seems like a no brainer to me if referees want to change the conversation about their performance. That's a bit "if" though.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 8 years ago

Stu's on a four week break

Founder

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over 8 years ago

Smith do you think refs what their errors highlighted?

Founder

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over 8 years ago · edited over 8 years ago · History

Smithy wrote:

What referees in Wellington need to face up to is that there is a perception of a lack of openness. A closing of the ranks any time a question is asked.

Club's right now do ask questions - and they do get answers. Central League teams file referee feedback on every game. I understand olympic supplied the (non public youtube) video to the Wellington Ref's with a 'please explain'. They got an answer.

My view is that it demonstrated one of the banes of the Referee's life; poor understanding of the laws from spectators, players and team officials.

I agree game video could be an aid, but not with a fixed pool of assessor resources. Video would increase the assessor burden, which would probably mean less assessments of match officials over time, and video is not infallible either- the simple fact is that referee positioning and the reading of play is one of the most important skills to develop. The simple fact is that the detail of an incident is often masked to the camera, and that they are no silver bullet.

A referee must rule on what they, or there assistants can see in play. (TBH, i'd rather we spent the money on more/better comms sets that videoing).

I'm sure there are terrible referee's out there who harbour grudges and the like - I've not had the misfortunet of working with one - they are mostly people acting with intergrity, doing something they love, and would just like a thank you, rather than a slagging off.

As the old adage goes- a striker will miss 10 chances, convert 1, and be a hero. A referee makes 10 great calls, and misses one, and they are corrupt villain.

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over 8 years ago

Feverish wrote:

Smith do you think refs what their errors highlighted?

what does this post mean? The grammar is abysmal.
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over 8 years ago

zonknz wrote:

Smithy wrote:

What referees in Wellington need to face up to is that there is a perception of a lack of openness. A closing of the ranks any time a question is asked.

Club's right now do ask questions - and they do get answers. Central League teams file referee feedback on every game. I understand olympic supplied the (non public youtube) video to the Wellington Ref's with a 'please explain'. They got an answer.

My view is that it demonstrated one of the banes of the Referee's life; poor understanding of the laws from spectators, players and team officials.

I agree game video could be an aid, but not with a fixed pool of assessor resources. Video would increase the assessor burden, which would probably mean less assessments of match officials over time, and video is not infallible either- the simple fact is that referee positioning and the reading of play is one of the most important skills to develop. The simple fact is that the detail of an incident is often masked to the camera, and that they are no silver bullet.

A referee must rule on what they, or there assistants can see in play. (TBH, i'd rather we spent the money on more/better comms sets that videoing).

I'm sure there are terrible referee's out there who harbour grudges and the like - I've not had the misfortunet of working with one - they are mostly people acting with intergrity, doing something they love, and would just like a thank you, rather than a slagging off.

As the old adage goes- a striker will miss 10 chances, convert 1, and be a hero. A referee makes 10 great calls, and misses one, and they are corrupt villain.

That's not an old adage.

You seem dead against using video and you obviously have your reasons. I think it would be progressive.

But let's not go around in circles aye.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 8 years ago

Smithy wrote:

zonknz wrote:

Let me explain myself better.

Refs already spend time being coached  - watching videos, and breaking down decision criteria. Not sure if it third party video i.e fifa resources, or local club replays if it materially matters.

Reviewing video's post game might not be as effective feedback - it might reduce the number of assessments made, given that the assessor is watching all of the game in person, not just where the camera tracks, so to be effective, you'd probably need more time per assessor per game to view the game and then a replay as well. (remember, they are assessing all match officials, not just where the ball is/ camera is following).

I really like working with the assessors. I feel a lot of the value is in the discussion about key match incidents directly after the end of the game/paperwork is done - delaying that to a few days / hours later after a replay is watched might not be as effective.

 

What referees in Wellington need to face up to is that there is a perception of a lack of openness. A closing of the ranks any time a question is asked.

What the Olympic video above demonstrated, I thought quite clearly, is that open assessment of referees can work both ways. It can highlight errors but also put down unjustified criticism. That last bit is a function not in the least bit served by assessors. Video enables referees to actually engage with coaches and players about decisions, in possession of the cold hard facts of the video. 

The assessor system is also fairly poor as a system of feedback. One man or woman who may or may not be tired, hungry, cold, friends with the referee, not friends with the coach, etc and so on watches the game and tells you if you did a good job or not. Video allows for that review to be moderated by a wider group. Video allows for a deeper and repeated analysis. 

And of course it makes a difference whether you're watching yourself or some FIFA resource. You might learn a lot about golf swings in the abstract watching YouTube, but a video of your golf swing enables personal improvement in a whole new way.

Seems like a no brainer to me if referees want to change the conversation about their performance. That's a bit "if" though.

Good lad Smith. I was awaiting this post.

My position is that I welcome the video. One of the things I found out from being on TV is that I am not as good as I thought I was. Granted it didn't film me between 2009 - 2015 in my best years but c'est la vie. That comes back to the fact that I could never rewind the tape and find out how I did. In my opinion, I found it was the same across the board. Before TV coverage, I genuinely believed that NZ referees performed above their level. Now having watched week in and week out, we make a lot of mistakes that were previously undetected. All my flaws are there to see and I can live with that. The flip side to that is that the level of football is not as good as the players think it is and goes hand in hand – we are in NZ and our world ranking is reflective of our football ability. I think that the players think that they and the level is better than it is and the referees think they are better than they are. It’s easy to throw stones cause I have now retired but I have had some shockers on TV. I was the cause of player and fan frustration. I own up to that but I got out cause I realised that at 40 the game was getting beyond me at a physical level cause I was always injured. The mind was good, the body was not. Do you hang on cause of pride or get out while on top?

I take your post and I do not argue with your view as such. I do ask though 'what is the outcome?' 'what purpose does this serve?' and ultimately 'where is the balance?'

The last few pages on this thread have been about a referee. A referee that the video shows had a pretty good game. That’s the only use of this tool - to hang a referee. There is no balance. It’s not there to show how average one team was. It’s not there for the losing coach to go 'well actually we were crap and deserved to have 3 players sent off so we were wrong and well done referee'. I can guarantee you in 26 years of refereeing, I have never heard that last line ever. It only serves one purpose - to find the referee mistakes and blame the referee for the result. There are people here that still refuse to accept the facts in the face of the video evidence so how has that advanced the situation towards “a better outcome”. We do make mistakes and that goes without saying. You only have to watch Bakary Gassama this morning to watch him destroy his WC18 chances (unfortunately he is rated in CAF so he will live) to see that referees have clangers but you need to have balance to this or it becomes a one-way exercise. All you get is 'we lost in the weekend cause of this mistake here and the video supports that' but no coach ever laments the millions of crap passes, the switch offs on marking and the guffed shots as reasons other than that.

I fully support your call on the proviso you can give balance. If you can't do that, then it’s dead in the water cause I guarantee you that no person would ever want their work performance filmed every day with the sole reason of finding the moment the employee stuffed up. That pressure is unrealistic and will result in referees leaving or refusing to join up (more so than at present). In the work place, it would be classified as harassment. This is not the work place and is the cauldron of sport but with respect to the guys that have put in the yards to learn the laws more than any other person involved in the game, there must be balance. I challenge you to find that balance.

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over 8 years ago

keefy_NZ wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Smith do you think refs what their errors highlighted?

what does this post mean? The grammar is abysmal.

I think its meant to be want instead of what. Hardly a big deal

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 8 years ago

Most if not all CL clubs currently video their games. Many use in house - Then release edited online to conceal set plays etc ?

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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over 8 years ago

Smithy wrote:

zonknz wrote:

Smithy wrote:

What referees in Wellington need to face up to is that there is a perception of a lack of openness. A closing of the ranks any time a question is asked.

Club's right now do ask questions - and they do get answers. Central League teams file referee feedback on every game. I understand olympic supplied the (non public youtube) video to the Wellington Ref's with a 'please explain'. They got an answer.

My view is that it demonstrated one of the banes of the Referee's life; poor understanding of the laws from spectators, players and team officials.

I agree game video could be an aid, but not with a fixed pool of assessor resources. Video would increase the assessor burden, which would probably mean less assessments of match officials over time, and video is not infallible either- the simple fact is that referee positioning and the reading of play is one of the most important skills to develop. The simple fact is that the detail of an incident is often masked to the camera, and that they are no silver bullet.

A referee must rule on what they, or there assistants can see in play. (TBH, i'd rather we spent the money on more/better comms sets that videoing).

I'm sure there are terrible referee's out there who harbour grudges and the like - I've not had the misfortunet of working with one - they are mostly people acting with intergrity, doing something they love, and would just like a thank you, rather than a slagging off.

As the old adage goes- a striker will miss 10 chances, convert 1, and be a hero. A referee makes 10 great calls, and misses one, and they are corrupt villain.

That's not an old adage.

You seem dead against using video and you obviously have your reasons. I think it would be progressive.

But let's not go around in circles aye.

we do use video for coaching at summer  league which is 1 person doing key clips from all the games and unpaid then circulating them. Would really like to have the capacity to review the game I assess on video along with the 3 officials involved but I and all our assessors do not have the time as volunteers to commit to this.  We are not a closed shop and are committed to helping all our officials to be the best they can be. We are honest with them from what we have available to us. The video supplied from the Olympic game was really helpful to the 41 referees who came to the coaching session on Tuesday night to help them understand or confirm that the DOGSO dismissal was both correct and courageous. But again this was just 1 review of 1 incident. There are many things I would like to show a referee wgat they do well or could improve through use of video but I and others would need to be employed full time. Any thoughts on how this could work?
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over 8 years ago

Chris Kerr wrote:

Smithy wrote:

zonknz wrote:

Let me explain myself better.

Refs already spend time being coached  - watching videos, and breaking down decision criteria. Not sure if it third party video i.e fifa resources, or local club replays if it materially matters.

Reviewing video's post game might not be as effective feedback - it might reduce the number of assessments made, given that the assessor is watching all of the game in person, not just where the camera tracks, so to be effective, you'd probably need more time per assessor per game to view the game and then a replay as well. (remember, they are assessing all match officials, not just where the ball is/ camera is following).

I really like working with the assessors. I feel a lot of the value is in the discussion about key match incidents directly after the end of the game/paperwork is done - delaying that to a few days / hours later after a replay is watched might not be as effective.

 

What referees in Wellington need to face up to is that there is a perception of a lack of openness. A closing of the ranks any time a question is asked.

What the Olympic video above demonstrated, I thought quite clearly, is that open assessment of referees can work both ways. It can highlight errors but also put down unjustified criticism. That last bit is a function not in the least bit served by assessors. Video enables referees to actually engage with coaches and players about decisions, in possession of the cold hard facts of the video. 

The assessor system is also fairly poor as a system of feedback. One man or woman who may or may not be tired, hungry, cold, friends with the referee, not friends with the coach, etc and so on watches the game and tells you if you did a good job or not. Video allows for that review to be moderated by a wider group. Video allows for a deeper and repeated analysis. 

And of course it makes a difference whether you're watching yourself or some FIFA resource. You might learn a lot about golf swings in the abstract watching YouTube, but a video of your golf swing enables personal improvement in a whole new way.

Seems like a no brainer to me if referees want to change the conversation about their performance. That's a bit "if" though.

Good lad Smith. I was awaiting this post.

My position is that I welcome the video. One of the things I found out from being on TV is that I am not as good as I thought I was. Granted it didn't film me between 2009 - 2015 in my best years but c'est la vie. That comes back to the fact that I could never rewind the tape and find out how I did. In my opinion, I found it was the same across the board. Before TV coverage, I genuinely believed that NZ referees performed above their level. Now having watched week in and week out, we make a lot of mistakes that were previously undetected. All my flaws are there to see and I can live with that. The flip side to that is that the level of football is not as good as the players think it is and goes hand in hand – we are in NZ and our world ranking is reflective of our football ability. I think that the players think that they and the level is better than it is and the referees think they are better than they are. It’s easy to throw stones cause I have now retired but I have had some shockers on TV. I was the cause of player and fan frustration. I own up to that but I got out cause I realised that at 40 the game was getting beyond me at a physical level cause I was always injured. The mind was good, the body was not. Do you hang on cause of pride or get out while on top?

I take your post and I do not argue with your view as such. I do ask though 'what is the outcome?' 'what purpose does this serve?' and ultimately 'where is the balance?'

The last few pages on this thread have been about a referee. A referee that the video shows had a pretty good game. That’s the only use of this tool - to hang a referee. There is no balance. It’s not there to show how average one team was. It’s not there for the losing coach to go 'well actually we were crap and deserved to have 3 players sent off so we were wrong and well done referee'. I can guarantee you in 26 years of refereeing, I have never heard that last line ever. It only serves one purpose - to find the referee mistakes and blame the referee for the result. There are people here that still refuse to accept the facts in the face of the video evidence so how has that advanced the situation towards “a better outcome”. We do make mistakes and that goes without saying. You only have to watch Bakary Gassama this morning to watch him destroy his WC18 chances (unfortunately he is rated in CAF so he will live) to see that referees have clangers but you need to have balance to this or it becomes a one-way exercise. All you get is 'we lost in the weekend cause of this mistake here and the video supports that' but no coach ever laments the millions of crap passes, the switch offs on marking and the guffed shots as reasons other than that.

I fully support your call on the proviso you can give balance. If you can't do that, then it’s dead in the water cause I guarantee you that no person would ever want their work performance filmed every day with the sole reason of finding the moment the employee stuffed up. That pressure is unrealistic and will result in referees leaving or refusing to join up (more so than at present). In the work place, it would be classified as harassment. This is not the work place and is the cauldron of sport but with respect to the guys that have put in the yards to learn the laws more than any other person involved in the game, there must be balance. I challenge you to find that balance.

fudge you're a good cod
You know we belong together...

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over 8 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Huge call Osky.  Think the use of the word good is hard to justify.

I love you Newsy. Why you no love me...
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over 8 years ago

Hard News wrote:

Huge call Osky.  Think the use of the word good is hard to justify.

tbf I was drunk when I posted that
You know we belong together...

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over 8 years ago
Stu J four match ban I heard?
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over 8 years ago

Tyler wrote:
Stu J four match ban I heard?


As I understand the laws if a member of staff is sent off the bench the minimum punishment is 4 weeks and a hefty fine.
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over 8 years ago · edited over 8 years ago · History

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

Permalink Permalink
over 8 years ago

keefy_NZ wrote:

Smithy wrote:

zonknz wrote:

Smithy wrote:

What referees in Wellington need to face up to is that there is a perception of a lack of openness. A closing of the ranks any time a question is asked.

Club's right now do ask questions - and they do get answers. Central League teams file referee feedback on every game. I understand olympic supplied the (non public youtube) video to the Wellington Ref's with a 'please explain'. They got an answer.

My view is that it demonstrated one of the banes of the Referee's life; poor understanding of the laws from spectators, players and team officials.

I agree game video could be an aid, but not with a fixed pool of assessor resources. Video would increase the assessor burden, which would probably mean less assessments of match officials over time, and video is not infallible either- the simple fact is that referee positioning and the reading of play is one of the most important skills to develop. The simple fact is that the detail of an incident is often masked to the camera, and that they are no silver bullet.

A referee must rule on what they, or there assistants can see in play. (TBH, i'd rather we spent the money on more/better comms sets that videoing).

I'm sure there are terrible referee's out there who harbour grudges and the like - I've not had the misfortunet of working with one - they are mostly people acting with intergrity, doing something they love, and would just like a thank you, rather than a slagging off.

As the old adage goes- a striker will miss 10 chances, convert 1, and be a hero. A referee makes 10 great calls, and misses one, and they are corrupt villain.

That's not an old adage.

You seem dead against using video and you obviously have your reasons. I think it would be progressive.

But let's not go around in circles aye.

we do use video for coaching at summer  league which is 1 person doing key clips from all the games and unpaid then circulating them. Would really like to have the capacity to review the game I assess on video along with the 3 officials involved but I and all our assessors do not have the time as volunteers to commit to this.  We are not a closed shop and are committed to helping all our officials to be the best they can be. We are honest with them from what we have available to us. The video supplied from the Olympic game was really helpful to the 41 referees who came to the coaching session on Tuesday night to help them understand or confirm that the DOGSO dismissal was both correct and courageous. But again this was just 1 review of 1 incident. There are many things I would like to show a referee wgat they do well or could improve through use of video but I and others would need to be employed full time. Any thoughts on how this could work?

Perfect. This is all I have been arguing for and you're already doing it!

Kerr you are a good bugger and I agree with almost all of your post except the bit where you say that coaches don't look at failed passes and shots. They do. That's what they use the damn video for!

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 8 years ago

Blew.2 wrote:

Cannot recall ever seeing such a 'happy' post about suspensions etc (don't bother saying - it is just the facts)... Speaking of the facts, cannot recall this kind of post ever , about Miramar, Wests,LH etc.  Another 'trigger happy' post when the Greeks are in the cross-hair. Just like the refs are 'trigger-happy' in every 50-50 situation at the Wellington Olympic games. The 'brave but right DOGSO decision' and 'yes, Barcia got the ball, but also got a lot of the player and deserved a yellow'  , somehow draw 'the best out of every ref and their knowledge of the rules' , rarely seen in the games when the Olympic are not involved. Cynical at best...

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over 8 years ago

TheHun wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

Cannot recall ever seeing such a 'happy' post about suspensions etc (don't bother saying - it is just the facts)... Speaking of the facts, cannot recall this kind of post ever , about Miramar, Wests,LH etc.  Another 'trigger happy' post when the Greeks are in the cross-hair. Just like the refs are 'trigger-happy' in every 50-50 situation at the Wellington Olympic games. The 'brave but right DOGSO decision' and 'yes, Barcia got the ball, but also got a lot of the player and deserved a yellow'  , somehow draw 'the best out of every ref and their knowledge of the rules' , rarely seen in the games when the Olympic are not involved. Cynical at best...

Blew literally just posted a screenshot of the suspensions... You're the only one here that is making this about a Greeks vs the rest thing!

Persecution complex much?


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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over 8 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

TheHun wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

Cannot recall ever seeing such a 'happy' post about suspensions etc (don't bother saying - it is just the facts)... Speaking of the facts, cannot recall this kind of post ever , about Miramar, Wests,LH etc.  Another 'trigger happy' post when the Greeks are in the cross-hair. Just like the refs are 'trigger-happy' in every 50-50 situation at the Wellington Olympic games. The 'brave but right DOGSO decision' and 'yes, Barcia got the ball, but also got a lot of the player and deserved a yellow'  , somehow draw 'the best out of every ref and their knowledge of the rules' , rarely seen in the games when the Olympic are not involved. Cynical at best...

Blew literally just posted a screenshot of the suspensions... You're the only one here that is making this about a Greeks vs the rest thing!

Persecution complex much?

Complex !?

Maybe, God knows...But, the 'us' vs Greeks is unfortunately very real...Doesn't make me happy at all. On the contrary.

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over 8 years ago

Feverish wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Love a dramatic Central League! Who is taking Petone now if Graeme isn't?

um nobody?

Petone FC Paul Whitmarsh Offensive, insulting, abusive language and/or gestures against a match official 4 games 4 games


Allegedly

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over 8 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Love a dramatic Central League! Who is taking Petone now if Graeme isn't?

um nobody?

Petone FC Paul Whitmarsh Offensive, insulting, abusive language and/or gestures against a match official 4 games 4 games


 This 'us' vs Petone doesn't make me happy at all



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over 8 years ago

Tegal wrote:

Feverish wrote:

Smithy wrote:

Love a dramatic Central League! Who is taking Petone now if Graeme isn't?

um nobody?

Petone FC Paul Whitmarsh Offensive, insulting, abusive language and/or gestures against a match official 4 games 4 games


 This 'us' vs Petone doesn't make me happy at all

Clever...But , just an attempt to deny a problem that clearly exists in Wellington (I will not say NZ , although one could argue) football.

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over 8 years ago · edited over 8 years ago · History

I thinking you're just trying to deflect, sort out your own house before throwing stones

Not a real fan, just pretending to be one!

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over 8 years ago

I thinking you're just trying to deflect, sort out your own house before throwing stones

Well, as I said before - denying the problem will not make it go away. Your post really doesn't add much to the discussion. 

There is this element of NZ society , football society in particular,  (and me being an immigrant  - who happens to be mad about football and this country , makes me VERY qualified to talk about it) , which I call 'Anglo-Saxonism' , totally different to the 'racism' (I am getting tired from explaining to people the difference, but they keep insisting that I am talking about the racism) that creates this 'us vs them' thing. Yes, I understand that the Wakefield 2 means 'a terrible place where a mob of locals causes trouble' to some people, but to some people it also means "the pressure cooker' (Smithy, hope you don't mind me using your words here) that adds something  to the sights and colours of this fine city.  Yes, there is abusive language coming from that hill above Wakefield 2. But, there is the same abusive language at just about every other CL game. The big difference is the numbers. Olympic have the numbers on that hill and the 'mob of 40 or so' shouting the 'F' word is different to one man and his dog doing the same at other CL games, for sure. If you haven't noticed already, I am not here to cause further confrontations...I am here to communicate, to try and bridge the obvious gap between the 'proper' Kiwis and us immigrants, at least when it comes to the football games that we all love. It is a two-way street though. We (the immigrants) simply have to show the respect for the 'proper' Kiwis. Some respect going the other way would be gratefully accepted, I am sure of it. We are getting a bit tired of being 'them' to be honest. 

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over 8 years ago

As others have said the atmosphere Olympic have at games is great, including the fire works, and while the swearing isn't great, it of course is going to be more noticeable in a large group. What is completely uncalled for and needs to be stamped out was the homophobic language coming from the group, directed at the United keeper. For all the atmosphere they may bring, no one wants them to bring that to the game.  

Not a real fan, just pretending to be one!

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over 8 years ago

TheHun wrote:

Clever...But , just an attempt to deny a problem that clearly exists in Wellington (I will not say NZ , although one could argue) football.

Have you seen me state on here that there is or isn't a problem? Have you ever had a discussion with me? I would appreciate it if you don't go putting words in people's mouths.



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over 8 years ago

TheHun wrote:

I thinking you're just trying to deflect, sort out your own house before throwing stones

Well, as I said before - denying the problem will not make it go away. Your post really doesn't add much to the discussion. 

There is this element of NZ society , football society in particular,  (and me being an immigrant  - who happens to be mad about football and this country , makes me VERY qualified to talk about it) , which I call 'Anglo-Saxonism' , totally different to the 'racism' (I am getting tired from explaining to people the difference, but they keep insisting that I am talking about the racism) that creates this 'us vs them' thing. Yes, I understand that the Wakefield 2 means 'a terrible place where a mob of locals causes trouble' to some people, but to some people it also means "the pressure cooker' (Smithy, hope you don't mind me using your words here) that adds something  to the sights and colours of this fine city.  Yes, there is abusive language coming from that hill above Wakefield 2. But, there is the same abusive language at just about every other CL game. The big difference is the numbers. Olympic have the numbers on that hill and the 'mob of 40 or so' shouting the 'F' word is different to one man and his dog doing the same at other CL games, for sure. If you haven't noticed already, I am not here to cause further confrontations...I am here to communicate, to try and bridge the obvious gap between the 'proper' Kiwis and us immigrants, at least when it comes to the football games that we all love. It is a two-way street though. We (the immigrants) simply have to show the respect for the 'proper' Kiwis. Some respect going the other way would be gratefully accepted, I am sure of it. We are getting a bit tired of being 'them' to be honest. 

Biggest nonsense I've read here for a while

Founder

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over 8 years ago

Feverish wrote:

TheHun wrote:

I thinking you're just trying to deflect, sort out your own house before throwing stones

Well, as I said before - denying the problem will not make it go away. Your post really doesn't add much to the discussion. 

There is this element of NZ society , football society in particular,  (and me being an immigrant  - who happens to be mad about football and this country , makes me VERY qualified to talk about it) , which I call 'Anglo-Saxonism' , totally different to the 'racism' (I am getting tired from explaining to people the difference, but they keep insisting that I am talking about the racism) that creates this 'us vs them' thing. Yes, I understand that the Wakefield 2 means 'a terrible place where a mob of locals causes trouble' to some people, but to some people it also means "the pressure cooker' (Smithy, hope you don't mind me using your words here) that adds something  to the sights and colours of this fine city.  Yes, there is abusive language coming from that hill above Wakefield 2. But, there is the same abusive language at just about every other CL game. The big difference is the numbers. Olympic have the numbers on that hill and the 'mob of 40 or so' shouting the 'F' word is different to one man and his dog doing the same at other CL games, for sure. If you haven't noticed already, I am not here to cause further confrontations...I am here to communicate, to try and bridge the obvious gap between the 'proper' Kiwis and us immigrants, at least when it comes to the football games that we all love. It is a two-way street though. We (the immigrants) simply have to show the respect for the 'proper' Kiwis. Some respect going the other way would be gratefully accepted, I am sure of it. We are getting a bit tired of being 'them' to be honest. 

Biggest nonsense I've read here for a while

Now, that explains everything !

I knew I was missing something...

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