Australian Championship Thread

You should see the cope on what used to be the 442 forums from the NSL nostalgics who were sure the NSD was going to kill the A-League

Doloras

You should see the cope on what used to be the 442 forums from the NSL nostalgics who were sure the NSD was going to kill the A-League

Why would you put yourself through going on there?

Ryan

Doloras

You should see the cope on what used to be the 442 forums from the NSL nostalgics who were sure the NSD was going to kill the A-League

Why would you put yourself through going on there?

Occasionally to troll the #NixOut deadenders

Doloras

You should see the cope on what used to be the 442 forums from the NSL nostalgics who were sure the NSD was going to kill the A-League

Mind giving a link? would love to read what they're saying

https://forum.insidesport.com.au/Football/Australian-Football

It's a cesspool, a chunk of them are anti a-league, and those that aren't anti a-league can't let go of the Nixout campaign. 

So regarding the NSD. Why am I hearing that @FootballAUS had no intention of getting this going from the get-go? Also, I’m told, the FA were handed a $14 million sponsorship deal by AAFC for this last year, but didn’t secure the deal? Does anyone want to ask these questions? pic.twitter.com/79pzOHMc9m

— Michael Cain (@caineyten) July 17, 2024

Another question. Do all the clubs that shelled out thousands of $ to jump through hoops in all the stages of applying for @FootballAUS NSD be able to get their money returned due to a competition which allegedly was never going to happen?Was the bar deliberately set too high? pic.twitter.com/JG5XlChTpV

— Michael Cain (@caineyten) July 17, 2024

shark-show called Football Queensland.” pic.twitter.com/t3ReyxFXXX— Michael Cain (@caineyten) July 17, 2024\n\n","contentType":"tweet"}" data-trix-content-type="tweet" class="attachment attachment--content">

Was also told that the reason a Queensland team was not in the final mix of the NSD was because of and I’ll quote.
“The inability of @FootbAUS to sort out the shark-show called Football Queensland.” pic.twitter.com/t3ReyxFXXX

— Michael Cain (@caineyten) July 17, 2024

But wait!

"Football Australia CEO, James Johnson, has moved to allay fears the proposed National Second Division may not get off the ground, boldly declaring the competition “will exist” ahead of its planned launch in 2025."

If it's ahead of its planned launch in 2025, does that mean it'll be here this year?!

Plan is it will be a winter comp in conjunction with, or operating a level up from NPL leagues? In which case would have to launch no earlier than 2025.

Unless like NZ's National League it becomes a short one round robin at the conclusion of the State NPLs, in which case yes it could commence later this year.

So there’s the prospect of two lots of clowns playing tug of war with the A league, while the ex-Fox pundits jump up and down like mechanical monkeys with cymbals? 

Heaven help us all. 

coochiee

Plan is it will be a winter comp in conjunction with, or operating a level up from NPL leagues? In which case would have to launch no earlier than 2025.

Unless like NZ's National League it becomes a short one round robin at the conclusion of the State NPLs, in which case yes it could commence later this year.

I think a situation like what we have with the National League here would work fantastic as a stepping point. Allows the clubs to get used to travelling in and out of the state every other week and builds excitement for when a full NST gets off the ground.

Maybe 1-2 years of that arrangement while the full NST is planned behind the scenes?

Hate quoting the cooker but he is the author of the article so I better give him credit.

'Flabbergasted': Anger over FA plans to re-write Second Tier script - FTBL | The home of football in Australia https://t.co/ZlZs0S6BXq

— David Lewis (@lewieatlarge) July 17, 2024

RR

A move away from the mooted home-and-away approach to a 2025 launch of a national second tier towards a 'Champions League' model appears increasingly likely following a Football Australia board meeting, with further conversations to follow. [@espnausnz]https://t.co/QiXlpHjo6Z

— A-League Hub (@AleagueHub) July 19, 2024

Lol, I was looking forward to this competition kicking off, but it seems it's become just as much a basket case as the APL led A-Leagues!

A Champions League style format was always the quickest and cheapest way to kick things off but all the clubs are dead set against it.

They really should focus on getting something underway, so they can point to sponsors/broadcasters & use that to launch into a full Home & Away league.

I mean Super Rugby started off as a pre-season tournament for the NPC. The money flows easier when you can show off your product to people.

Football Australia and the eight National Second Tier (NST) Foundation Clubs convened today in Sydney to progress discussions on the future of the NST competition.

— Football Australia (@FootballAUS) August 19, 2024

A meeting that probably didn't even need to really happen. 

No new information gleaned from this one folks.

Pretty much just "Don't worry guys we're still committed we swear"

Although we did get a club statement from South Melbourne going on about their rich history again and making threats which is definitely an interesting tactic

Yes they have fired off a few pot shots. The old franchise dig.

https://www.smfc.com.au/2024/08/15/south-melbourne-fc-open-letter-regarding-national-second-division/

Our attempts to join the A-League have been met with disappointment on three occasions, despite our rich history and undeniable contribution to Australian football. These setbacks have not been due to a lack of capability or vision but rather biases against our storied background and flawed expansion strategies that overlooked the essence of what makes a football club truly great.

We watched as newer clubs like Melbourne Heart, sustained primarily by foreign investment, and Western United, which has struggled to capture the imagination of the Victorian public, were given opportunities that we believe rightfully belonged to us. Yet, these challenges have only strengthened our resolve. Last week, we again demonstrated our enduring spirit by defeating the A-League outfit Wellington Phoenix in the Round of 32 of the Australia Cup at our picturesque Lakeside Stadium.

We continue to advocate for the commencement of the National Second Tier in 2025, a platform where our historic club can once again showcase its prowess and contribute to the growth of Australian football. Our place is at the forefront, driving forward with the same passion and commitment that has defined us for almost seven decades.

South Melbourne FC along with the other NST Foundation Clubs went through an extensive RFP & submission process, as well as provide a $500,000 Bank Guarantee based on the understanding & assurances that we would be establishing a standalone home & away second division.

The Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC) representing over 300 clubs across Australia was established with a charter to establish a National Second Division. The FA Board & the Executive can choose to ignore the will of the majority of Community based clubs across Australia & continue to protect the interests of 12 private franchises.

South Melbourne have a good argument there

2 month long, Champions League Style format. This will annoy a lot of people.

Sounds very similar to the National League championship we have here. Hopefully FFA can expand it a little bit in years to come but it's a good start.

RR

2 month long, Champions League Style format. This will annoy a lot of people.

Yeah it will. The likes of South Melbourne. It's very much a watered down National 2nd tier, because surprise surprise anything else doesn't stack up currently financially.

No WA teams. Gungahlin United FC is in Canberra and Caroline Springs-George Cross FC in Melbourne.

Over the past 12 months, Football Australia has undertaken two comprehensive Request for Proposal (RFP) processes to select NST clubs. This work, supported by advisory partner BDO, has successfully identified 14 clubs representing six states and territories that have each passed the technical elements of the NST RFP process.

Six of the 14 clubs were unable to meet the mandatory financial requirements required to play in a standalone NST home & away league competition prior to the deadline in June 2024, however Football Australia will continue to monitor these clubs as they seek to advance their bid proposals.

Football Australia has also committed to a third NST RFP selection process, expanded to target clubs outside of the initial Expression of Interest process and predominantly from underrepresented states. It is hoped this enhanced national focus will identify additional foundation clubs.

The eight clubs announced in November 2023 — APIA Leichhardt FC, Avondale FC, Marconi Stallions FC, Preston Lions FC, South Melbourne FC, Sydney Olympic FC, Sydney United 58 FC, and Wollongong Wolves FC — remain integral to the future growth of the NST and will continue to be recognised as foundation members.

The six additional clubs that have passed the technical elements of the NST RFP process include: Adelaide City FC, Caroline Springs-George Cross FC, Gold Coast United FC, Gungahlin United FC, South Hobart FC, and Sunshine Coast FC.

Quite a few famous club name's in there that have produced some of the great players in Socceroos history. Have seen nothing that suggests that whoever wins this comp will be potentially invited to join the A-League. Both run by different organizations. However if some of the A League franchises keep failing then the drums will be beating for some form of promotion.

My biggest fear with this whole 2nd division business is that the majority of the new clubs would come from big cities/regions that already support a couple of clubs. Is that going to spark up even more interest, or will it dilute?
In my view, we need to work to bring new large catchment areas into it, to build a popular, entertaining, sustainable league.
To me this means Canberra, Tasmania, maybe a second Brisbane/Queensland team, and then a pipe dream Christchurch. Left field options would include a Darwin/NT and Pasific Islands team though I really don't think this is ever going to happen. 

newzealandpower

My biggest fear with this whole 2nd division business is that the majority of the new clubs would come from big cities/regions that already support a couple of clubs. Is that going to spark up even more interest, or will it dilute?
In my view, we need to work to bring new large catchment areas into it, to build a popular, entertaining, sustainable league.
To me this means Canberra, Tasmania, maybe a second Brisbane/Queensland team, and then a pipe dream Christchurch. Left field options would include a Darwin/NT and Pasific Islands team though I really don't think this is ever going to happen. 

The real pipe dream is a second team in Brisbane. Did you watch their first home game last night? I kid you not, there were 5 fans (literally 5) behind the goal. 3 stands were completely empty with only the main stand filled with people, but not even that was anywhere near capacity. They used to average close to 15k...

Also we've seen, the addition of a 3rd Sydney and Melbourne team has diluted rather than added fans.

The real issue is that the A-League needs to actually become profitable, increase revenue, exposure and TV audiences before it can even start thinking about a second division. 

I will keep saying it: Most clubs need to start owning their own stadiums/infrastructure. Otherwise they will forever be bullied by other codes, stadium operators, state governments. In that regard, Western United are headed in the right direction but there's still massive question marks about their future.

You can't build/support a house on a weak/cracked foundation, simple as that.

I'd agrue that the only clubs in strongly miss suited stadiums at the moment are the Roar and the Nix.

And yeah as posted elsewhere there are plans to redevelop Perry Park in Brissy the spirtual home of QLD Football. For the moment the QLD Govt has said no to the proposed $200M cost, but there has just been a change in state Govt in the last week, and the infrastructure spend up to the 2032 Brisbane Olympics is still being finalised.

Sure the other stadiums ain't perfect, but they are pretty good size and location wise. The greater problem being that some like Macarthur with their pitiful crowds, shouldn't be in the league at all. Have hope Western United will grow a reasonable supporter base once they move into their new ground, more embedding themselves in the community.

Re clubs owning grounds that ain't going to happen unless like Auckland you have two different billionaire owners. Seems Mowbray/Williams are more driving the Western Springs idea than Foley, though yeah looking at what he is doing at Bournemouth he will definitely be keen for Auckland to have their own ground and high class training facilities.

Canberra, The Gong, 2nd QLD team (likely Gold Coast), Tasmania and Christchurch. They would be my top 5 options for an expansion to 18 teams. With that the APL could look to split into 9 team A1 & A2 divisions with pro/rel. 

I think the early success of Auckland shows that yes, you ideally now want expansion into markets that are new to the A League. But the APL also mentioned about 18 months ago a longer term plan to go to 20 teams (A1 & A2 of 10 teams each), so if that ever happened you'd think a couple of stronger NPL clubs like Sth Melbourne would be needed.

Note the NST is going to be run by Football Australia not the APL.

A 10 team A1 league would be so dumb, 18 game season? Or we go back to the horrible ol days of playing some teams 3 times. Top tier needs to be 16 teams minimum, then you can have as many teams in the lower tiers with pro/rel for the top/bottom 2 or 3

theprof

A 10 team A1 league would be so dumb, 18 game season? Or we go back to the horrible ol days of playing some teams 3 times. Top tier needs to be 16 teams minimum, then you can have as many teams in the lower tiers with pro/rel for the top/bottom 2 or 3

Or 27 game season playing each team 3x.

Or season starts with some sort of pre season comp like a League Cup pool format that adds an extra 7-9 weeks to the season. Then your 18 game H&A regular season.

The A1/A2 split model apparently mimics how Japan grew it's football pyramid into the current J1, J2 & J3 structure.

I'm guessing for a popn base of about 30M (NZ & Australia combined), plus it being a highly competetitive sposrts market (AFL, NRL, Super Rugby) having 20 professional financially viable club teams is already pushing the envelope. I mean we are only at 13 now, and Canberra is struggling to get going to make it 14. Football Australia saying the NST can't yet go to a full season model with all the travel costs etc.

If you have 16 teams alone in the top tier, you just have too many clubs when you also have a 2nd tier. The 2nd tier clubs have to be fully professional, financially strong etc so they can be promoted.

I think the long term 20 team model (A1 & A2) could work, but it will take time to get there. However you structure that model to give each team say 26-27 regular season games ain't so important. It's far more important to have a model where all the teams are financially viable, if you introduce pro/rel. I think that means 20 teams absolute max with 2 divisions & pro/rel.

coochiee

theprof

A 10 team A1 league would be so dumb, 18 game season? Or we go back to the horrible ol days of playing some teams 3 times. Top tier needs to be 16 teams minimum, then you can have as many teams in the lower tiers with pro/rel for the top/bottom 2 or 3

Or 27 game season playing each team 3x.

Or season starts with some sort of pre season comp like a League Cup pool format that adds an extra 7-9 weeks to the season. Then your 18 game H&A regular season.

The A1/A2 split model apparently mimics how Japan grew it's football pyramid into the current J1, J2 & J3 structure.

I'm guessing for a popn base of about 30M (NZ & Australia combined), plus it being a highly competetitive sposrts market (AFL, NRL, Super Rugby) having 20 professional financially viable club teams is already pushing the envelope. I mean we are only at 13 now, and Canberra is struggling to get going to make it 14. Football Australia saying the NST can't yet go to a full season model with all the travel costs etc.

If you have 16 teams alone in the top tier, you just have too many clubs when you also have a 2nd tier. The 2nd tier clubs have to be fully professional, financially strong etc so they can be promoted.

I think the long term 20 team model (A1 & A2) could work, but it will take time to get there. However you structure that model to give each team say 26-27 regular season games ain't so important. It's far more important to have a model where all the teams are financially viable, if you introduce pro/rel. I think that means 20 teams absolute max with 2 divisions & pro/rel.

Personally I'd much prefer a single league with 18 stable teams, who needs pro relegation if it's gonna mean an unbalanced home and away schedule, adding to the travel costs etc. Even number of teams, play each other home and away. 10 teams is 18 games which is too small which is why they had the 27 game seasons and played each other 3 times in previous years. 14 teams is 26 games which is decent, 16 teams across NZ and Aus would give a 30 game season ehich would be perfectly valid! All you need then is 3 more teams, two if Canberra arrives, 1 more to fine if Chch is considered.

Besides all that, who of the current 13 are going to move into the A2 league without a fight?

The APL ie the clubs will utimately decide whether a structure with pro/rel is possible. Sure none of the existing clubs would want to start out in A2. It would have to be a setup where the APL (media rights) disbursements are the same whether you are in A1 or A2. Maybe a parachute payment of some sort if you are relegated down to A2

Would being in A2 mean lower crowds or commercial sponsorship? Maybe. Again I'm sure the clubs would analyse all this before making a final decision on what to go with.

Doesn't seem much change in the Nix home crowds whether they are playing high flying Victory or lowly Newcastle.

But currently some clubs from very early in the season have squat to play for. Bluntly the fans of the Roar, Jets, probably the Glory & WU - know in their hearts their teams ain't winning the ALM this season. They most likely feel their teams have little chance of making the top 6. This undoubtedly plays a part in the crowds for the Roar and Jets for example being piss poor from the season start. It's just the absolute diehard tragics turning up. Hard to see that changing any time soon, so these clubs just stay mired in mediocrity, and it's bad look for the league as a whole.

But if you knew your team in A2 was a promotion chance, that at least gives you some hope for the season. Pro/rel always bring some late season drama & excitement.

Different code and all, but I remember Manawatu in the rugby NPC, getting some big crowds a few years back when they hosted semi and Championship final (2nd tier) on their way getting promoted to the Premiership top tier. People in the region excited about rugby and the casuals turning up. 

Again the clubs through the APL run the league now, so they will analyse and decide what is the best future structure. But yeah any expansion to 18-20 teams if it happens will not be overnight.

Chance for SMFC to defend its title of OFC Club of the Century?

📖 READ | Oceania Football's Next Chapter: Australian clubs invited to be part of groundbreaking OFC Professional League ⚽️🇦🇺https://t.co/bIrL9905eL@FootballAUS

— Oceania Football Confederation (@OFCfootball) November 8, 2024

That is a very interesting development. Wouldn't surprise if teams from QLD & Darwin particularly, were at least interested in this. I see there is a meeting being held in Brisbane, with any interested Australian clubs invited to attend.

But this development means that surely OFC also want some of the bigger NZ clubs involved, if they are looking at potential Aussie NPL clubs. I guess for the likes of Olympic and Auckland City, it will be all about the funding model for this new pro comp.

Also critically how OFC's representative at the annual FIFA Intercontinental Cup, or now 4 yearly Club World Cup will be determined. Being at the CWC has been a great money spinner for Auckland City. Looks like there will still be a OFC Champions League. So how will OFC's representative(s) at future FIFA club events be determined?

This is a new standalone competition that would run in addition to the current OFC Men’s Champions League, as well as the national domestic leagues across OFC’s Member Associations.

Maybe this is a bit harsh but terrible article, answers no questions.

Maybe I'm just being harsh and it's too early to decide anything. Just annoyed at how vague the article was

The 8 locked in clubs for the NSD (3 VIC & 5 NSW) will likely be disappointed the NSD is going to start as a watered down comp, tacted onto the end of their NPL seasons.

They may well be interested in a OFC comp that runs most of the year/season, if it's full professional, well funded, allowing them to have fully professional squads etc. There is strong FIFA backing for this OFC professional league, with the aim to raise football standards across OFC. The Aust Govt also wants to strengthen ties across the Pacific region (read China push back) with a bid of 'football diplomacy'. 

The OFC comp is mooted to start in 2026. So still time to work out what any comp model may look like. The article is a bit vague, because as yet OFC themselves won't really know the finer details. Like the meeting in Brissy is an EOI gathering. Maybe no NPL clubs will turn up. Maybe 20 will.

I would imagine the OFC Champions League would still be the way of qualifying for the Club World Cup - but maybe the winners of this OFC Professional League will gain qualification to the Champions League.

Like Noah I have been waiting for ages for an explanation of the format of this competition. I can't imagine that you can expect clubs from the island nations to afford a full home and away season or anything like that - which makes me think it may end up being a centralised competition played over a few weeks - which then seems almost pointless as itll essentially be just another OFC Champions League - so who knows what the plan is.

In saying all this, I am curious, and hopeful it turns out to be a good competition 

I wouldn't understimate FIFA's motivation to improve standards in the region - or cynically Infantino try to lock in OFC's block of 10 votes when seeking re-election - so FIFA cash may even underwrite it??

FYI - 
There is PNG team that plays in the semi pro QLD Cup rugby league comp (tier below the NRL).
A Malaysian U23 team a few years ago played in QLD NPL 

On a NZ angle. It wouldn't surprise if down the track Auckland FC were interested in entering their reserve team in such a comp. They are wealthy enough to finance the cost. Useful comp to simulate the ALM for their younger players with the travel, heat, playing other full time pros etc etc

coochiee

I wouldn't understimate FIFA's motivation to improve standards in the region - or cynically Infantino try to lock in OFC's block of 10 votes when seeking re-election - so FIFA cash may even underwrite it??

FYI - 
There is PNG team that plays in the semi pro QLD Cup rugby league comp (tier below the NRL).
A Malaysian U23 team a few years ago played in QLD NPL 

On a NZ angle. It wouldn't surprise if down the track Auckland FC were interested in entering their reserve team in such a comp. They are wealthy enough to finance the cost. Useful comp to simulate the ALM for their younger players with the travel, heat, playing other full time pros etc etc

I think every National League fan went red reading that last paragraph. Could you imagine the uproar if either one of our reserves teams got in rather than one of the National league giants? haha

Anyway my main question is whether a professional system is possible/maintainable? Just seems far fetched to me. Then again if it is I'd welcome it with open arms

RR

Chance for SMFC to defend its title of OFC Club of the Century?

📖 READ | Oceania Football's Next Chapter: Australian clubs invited to be part of groundbreaking OFC Professional League ⚽️🇦🇺https://t.co/bIrL9905eL@FootballAUS

— Oceania Football Confederation (@OFCfootball) November 8, 2024

Kind of intrigued by that to be honest. If this competition is indeed bankrolled by FIFA you'd think at least a few Aussie clubs would be very interested, especially those who may have been snubbed in the NSD selection process. 

Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne all with varying degrees of flights directly to Pacific nations too.

Certainly an interesting development.

Hang on just a second!
So Fifa wants to create a new OFC professional league and wants to let Aussie teams play in it. Yet the Nix still cant play in the Asian Champions league?

That seems incredibly ass about face.