Wellington Phoenix Men

'Nix vs the Bling- Match Thread

550 replies · 3,179 views
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Phoenix shop is best option
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
3 Def's with Mckain at CB, .
He's s**thouse with 4 at the back.
After last weeks effort I'd be putting him as far away from our goal as possible.
Just imagine his unco skills with no one else to clean up.
We are in very big danger of being massacred by Sydney
Oh, but Ricki will save us by bringing on extra backs when we're 5-0 down with 5mins to go, GULP.
   
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
caseym wrote:
Phoenix shop is best option


Thanks
E + R + O

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
caseym wrote:


I would bring Costa on for a cameo round the 65 -70 minute mark, either on the left or upfront, use his pace.

 
SURELY Costa must at least be on the bench this week? Its clear that the Phoenix are lacking pace, and there is very chance we will be chasing a goal late on. No point bringing on Mulligan withy 10 mins to go to try and pull back that 0-2 deficit against Sydney.
 
Somehow I suspect Ricki is already down the TAB taking the odds on 0-0, so we will have Brown, Plodder and Dodd on the bench.
 
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Browner_ wrote:
Somehow I suspect Ricki is already down the TAB taking the odds on 0-0, so we will have Brown, Plodder and Dodd on the bench.


I would not take that bet.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Caseym,

Your first formation works on the Football manager but it won't work for real game as Ferrante is suck in the middle and is in the way of any space for Brown to move up. Looks fine in the Football manager but absolutely a disaster as the other team just goes down the two flank for a free attack as there is hardly any compaction between the defence and midfield blocks. And makes it difficult to get decent coverage for defence in time and so you just allow them to have a few extra shot at goal. You just dreaming.

As for your second formation. It is doable but frankly we don't have genuine wingbacks that can run all day trying to cover a more space that they could not possibility do for long because they would be faced with to many 1v2 on defence and will be overrun. That strategy is very 80-90s and is has been exposured as inadequate for the total possession game. Now days it is more used as a short term tactic to get the best in counterattack when you are stuck in your own half. There is plenty of space but we wouldn't use that strategy because it is not sustainable for a controlled possession that we obviously have been working on. Just a counterattack strategy that is fine but we have not the real speed in the wingbacks to do any real damage. Also I wouldn't try this strategy at all as I don't think that there is any powerful enough teams in the A-league to worry about that would force us to use this strategy. To train and try this strategy is a real coaching mistake in A-league as all teams are very close in the level they are playing at. All we be doing would be allowing them to get closer for a shot on goal and letting them control the game. Not a great idea but really the last resort strategy.

Jeepers, why do everyone think that it works for Football manager means it will work in the real game? Football manager is an exploration of general strategy and stimulations to practice countermeasures, it is but a shadow of the real analysis tool. It is just too general.

Real games have more individual accountability on the players and allows for moments of brilliance. Football manager is limited and only increases general team odds but does not allow for incidence factors as ongoing evidences. Football manager makes it easier than it is.

However, it is a good learning tool and may help you to an intermediate understanding of things at the best, but nowhere near the complex manner of the real thing.

It is fun of course. . .

. . . sorry for being a wet blanket . . . again.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Caseym,

Your first formation works on the Football manager but it won't work for real game as Ferrante is suck in the middle and is in the way of any space for Brown to move up. Looks fine in the Football manager but absolutely a disaster as the other team just goes down the two flank for a free attack as there is hardly any compaction between the defence and midfield blocks. And makes it difficult to get decent coverage for defence in time and so you just allow them to have a few extra shot at goal. You just dreaming.

As for your second formation. It is doable but frankly we don't have genuine wingbacks that can run all day trying to cover a more space that they could not possibility do for long because they would be faced with to many 1v2 on defence and will be overrun. That strategy is very 80-90s and is has been exposured as inadequate for the total possession game. Now days it is more used as a short term tactic to get the best in counterattack when you are stuck in your own half. There is plenty of space but we wouldn't use that strategy because it is not sustainable for a controlled possession that we obviously have been working on. Just a counterattack strategy that is fine but we have not the real speed in the wingbacks to do any real damage. Also I wouldn't try this strategy at all as I don't think that there is any powerful enough teams in the A-league to worry about that would force us to use this strategy. To train and try this strategy is a real coaching mistake in A-league as all teams are very close in the level they are playing at. All we be doing would be allowing them to get closer for a shot on goal and letting them control the game. Not a great idea but really the last resort strategy.

Jeepers, why do everyone think that it works for Football manager means it will work in the real game? Football manager is an exploration of general strategy and stimulations to practice countermeasures, it is but a shadow of the real analysis tool. It is just too general.

Real games have more individual accountability on the players and allows for moments of brilliance. Football manager is limited and only increases general team odds but does not allow for incidence factors as ongoing evidences. Football manager makes it easier than it is.

However, it is a good learning tool and may help you to an intermediate understanding of things at the best, but nowhere near the complex manner of the real thing.

It is fun of course. . .

. . . sorry for being a wet blanket . . . again.



And what would you do?

E + R + O

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Caseym,

Your first formation works on the Football manager but it won't work for real game .


Nar actually  my 2nd one was my FM tactic, the first one I just came up with as we have nothing going through the middle, which we really do need, but I also didn't want us to lose our width, that's why I came up with that one...

Maybe Ricki should play FM coz his current formations are sh*te tbh
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We (or Ricki, or Juande) could devise/identify/employ the perfect formation but if the players are picking daisy's, doing handstands and havin a laff with their opposition, you'll come 2nd in the match and likely last in the competition... (as the evidence clearly demonstrates)

Once the players give a toss and give 100% (or even a solid 97.2%) and the tactics are clearly lacking then look at formations... at the moment, it's the least of our probs.

Clearly, for whatever reason the players (with one or three exceptions) aren't performing to their potential - either individually, or as a team. This needs to be addressed. On Sunday @ 5pm. Or I may never wear my new cape again!.


Sorry Spurs fans, didn't mean to have a dig... ummmm, actually - maybe I did (my deepest apologies to you both).





E + R + O

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SurgeQld wrote:
caseym wrote:
Phoenix shop is best option


Thanks



$25

http://club8.football365.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=19318
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
HK_Keeper wrote:
SurgeQld wrote:
caseym wrote:
Phoenix shop is best option


Thanks



$25

http://club8.football365.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=19318



Thanks HK, I'll start saving up!

E + R + O

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Arsenal wrote:
Browner_ wrote:
Somehow I suspect Ricki is already down the TAB taking the odds on 0-0, so we will have Brown, Plodder and Dodd on the bench.


I would not take that bet.
 
He's HAS to be optimistic!
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
auskiwi wrote:
3 Def's with Mckain at CB, .
He's s**thouse with 4 at the back.

After last weeks effort I'd be putting him as far away from our goal as possible.

Just imagine his unco skills with no one else to clean up.

We are in very big danger of being massacred by Sydney

Oh, but Ricki will save us by bringing on extra backs when we're 5-0 down with 5mins to go, GULP.

   


I actually thought McKain played well at the back except for the penalty, but i would try him in the mid-field and put Dodd at the back.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
does anyone else think the zone needs a new direction, i love seeing the cove (sydney) do the bounce or the thing were they all clap in unison. it looks great and is full of energy. we are very flat these days. the old chants are tired. and more and more goobers are SITTING in 21 with only pockets of really strong support. last home game ccm had a corner down by the zone and we hardly gave him the who are ya!!. yea its dire times but why stop having fun. cmon lads.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Crowd has to really get the Phoenix pumped. The recent crowd performance's have been rather average. If your in the zone its gotta be up and chanting the roof off. New witty chants that are loud and clear so the rest of the crowd get involved!
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
no, no and NOOOOOOOO!!!! Why break up a CB partnership that has finally started to look solid and throw someone in midfield who has not shown himself there at all. If Ricki did fufill some of your requests and chuck Jon at DM I think it would signal major desperation and stupidity given we still haven't given Brown a start .
You know we belong together...

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
McKain has played DM before, and was in fact expected to fulfil that role at the Phoenix. It was actually surprising that Ricky put him in at CB for the season.

In my eyes, McKain's technique and comfort on the ball is much better than Brown's, I'd certainly have him in midfield, and in fact would have had him there from the very start of the pre-season.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
does anyone else think the zone needs a new direction, i love seeing the cove (sydney) do the bounce or the thing were they all clap in unison. it looks great and is full of energy. we are very flat these days. the old chants are tired. and more and more goobers are SITTING in 21 with only pockets of really strong support. last home game ccm had a corner down by the zone and we hardly gave him the who are ya!!. yea its dire times but why stop having fun. cmon lads.
 

Bring back our anthem  ...

"We're the Phoenix, We're the Phoenix, were the Phoenix FC
From the ashes, from the ashes, from the ashes are we"
 
at least we can claim this for ourselves.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Daniel up front with Smeltz, McKain at DM so Dodd can play CB and smash people
I like tautologies because I like them.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cosimo wrote:
so Dodd can play CB and smash people


Smashed 'im bro!!!

Agree with the call, carry on.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
McKain has played DM before, and was in fact expected to fulfil that role at the Phoenix. It was actually surprising that Ricky put him in at CB for the season.

In my eyes, McKain's technique and comfort on the ball is much better than Brown's, I'd certainly have him in midfield, and in fact would have had him there from the very start of the pre-season.
Oh right, sorry didn't know that. Prob should have researched McKain properly first.
You know we belong together...

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
does anyone else think the zone needs a new direction, i love seeing the cove (sydney) do the bounce or the thing were they all clap in unison. it looks great and is full of energy. we are very flat these days. the old chants are tired. and more and more goobers are SITTING in 21 with only pockets of really strong support. last home game ccm had a corner down by the zone and we hardly gave him the who are ya!!. yea its dire times but why stop having fun. cmon lads.
 

Bring back our anthem  ...

"We're the Phoenix, We're the Phoenix, were the Phoenix FC
From the ashes, from the ashes, from the ashes are we"
 
at least we can claim this for ourselves.
 
yep

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oska wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
McKain has played DM before, and was in fact expected to fulfil that role at the Phoenix. It was actually surprising that Ricky put him in at CB for the season.

In my eyes, McKain's technique and comfort on the ball is much better than Brown's, I'd certainly have him in midfield, and in fact would have had him there from the very start of the pre-season.
Oh right, sorry didn't know that. Prob should have researched McKain properly first.


But your first point Oska is still valid, our two CBs are playing well together I don't want to see them split up either.


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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Corkster wrote:

Oska wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
McKain has played DM before, and was in fact expected to fulfil that role at the Phoenix. It was actually surprising that Ricky put him in at CB for the season. In my eyes, McKain's technique and comfort on the ball is much better than Brown's, I'd certainly have him in midfield, and in fact would have had him there from the very start of the pre-season.

Oh right, sorry didn't know that. Prob should have researched McKain properly first.
But your first point Oska is still valid, our two CBs are playing well together I don't want to see them split up either.


Well lets hope Brown makes a difference in CM as any two out of three of Johnson, Ferrante and Dodd doesn't inspire confidence of a return to some semblance of form and guarantees McKain and Durante will be earning their pay again.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'd like to see Troy Hearfield tried out as our CM, probably only possible if Leo Bertos is back fit.
Hearfield's work rate is amazing, he's got a decent pass and his current lack of confidence in shooting could be given time to return.  A similar role to what Joel Griffiths played in a week before last. 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SurgeQld wrote:

Caseym,

Your first formation works on the Football manager but it won't work for real game as Ferrante is suck in the middle and is in the way of any space for Brown to move up. Looks fine in the Football manager but absolutely a disaster as the other team just goes down the two flank for a free attack as there is hardly any compaction between the defence and midfield blocks. And makes it difficult to get decent coverage for defence in time and so you just allow them to have a few extra shot at goal. You just dreaming.

As for your second formation. It is doable but frankly we don't have genuine wingbacks that can run all day trying to cover a more space that they could not possibility do for long because they would be faced with to many 1v2 on defence and will be overrun. That strategy is very 80-90s and is has been exposured as inadequate for the total possession game. Now days it is more used as a short term tactic to get the best in counterattack when you are stuck in your own half. There is plenty of space but we wouldn't use that strategy because it is not sustainable for a controlled possession that we obviously have been working on. Just a counterattack strategy that is fine but we have not the real speed in the wingbacks to do any real damage. Also I wouldn't try this strategy at all as I don't think that there is any powerful enough teams in the A-league to worry about that would force us to use this strategy. To train and try this strategy is a real coaching mistake in A-league as all teams are very close in the level they are playing at. All we be doing would be allowing them to get closer for a shot on goal and letting them control the game. Not a great idea but really the last resort strategy.

Jeepers, why do everyone think that it works for Football manager means it will work in the real game? Football manager is an exploration of general strategy and stimulations to practice countermeasures, it is but a shadow of the real analysis tool. It is just too general.

Real games have more individual accountability on the players and allows for moments of brilliance. Football manager is limited and only increases general team odds but does not allow for incidence factors as ongoing evidences. Football manager makes it easier than it is.

However, it is a good learning tool and may help you to an intermediate understanding of things at the best, but nowhere near the complex manner of the real thing.

It is fun of course. . .

. . . sorry for being a wet blanket . . . again.
And what would you do?


You kidding me right?

How can you post on the first pages and not notice my postings on the first two pages of this thread on my idea of the next team formation? I even gave an exposition on rodfarva's formation as an extra.

Goodness me, bopman was right, I DO NEED a quick headnote at the beginning of my posts to save the lazy buggers from reading the whole post properly.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Don't worry ABW, I read your post.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
[/QUOTE]And what would you do?[/QUOTE]

You kidding me right?

How can you post on the first pages and not notice my postings on the first two pages of this thread on my idea of the next team formation? I even gave an exposition on rodfarva's formation as an extra.

Goodness me, bopman was right, I DO NEED a quick headnote at the beginning of my posts to save the lazy buggers from reading the whole post properly. [/QUOTE]

Yes AWB, I was.

Sigh.

E + R + O

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think daylight saving is kicking in this weekend
so don't turn up an hour late as the second half will be starting
and we will already be 2 nil up.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
lads, theres so many post atm and i wanna c logical formations posted.
 mine is the same as sydney and adelaides formations 4-1-4-1
 
  siggy----durante----mkain----tony
---------------brown-------------------
bertos---ferrante--daniel------gao
--------------smeltzy------------------
 
subs.
hearfeild- replacemnt for siggy,bertos or daniel------70mins- siggy might blow up and same as below for daniel,bertos
costa- replacemnt for bertos or daniel------65-75mins daniel gets tired and inneffective, bertos not fit or proven
covs- for fun
johnson-for emergency use only
 
serious formations plz guys haha
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'd buy that XI

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
                               Moss 
Sigmund         Durante         McKain       Mulligan
                  Brown            Ferrante
   Bertos/Hearfield     Gao               Daniel
                               Smeltz
Subs:
Paston
Dodd
Hearfield/Kwasnik
Lochhead
 
Bertos depending on availability, Lochhead has looked out of it lately for me.
 
Changed Sigmund to RB and Mulligan to LB.
simon_hampton2008-09-24 18:37:51
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i dont think sigmund can play left back
 
only ammendments i would make is if you wanted to change defensive lines then a back line of
 
durante---dodd---mkain----tony----
 
 correct me if im wrong but durante played right back for newcastle at certain times and he is the obvious player with the athletisicm to be a full back.
 
dood is a good centerback. he might not be as good as durante or mkain but he rarely let us down last year and cannot play anywhere else.
 
??
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

                               Moss
Mulligan         Durante         McKain       Sigmund
                  Brown            Ferrante
   Bertos/Hearfield     Gao               Daniel
                               Smeltz
Subs:
Paston
Dodd
Hearfield/Kwasnik
Lochhead
 
Bertos depending on availability, Lochhead has looked out of it lately for me.


I do believe it was him that established one of a handfull of moves last week! He'd be my left back for sure. He attacks which is vital and is a pain in the ass to get past, plus he brings some height too.

                                 Moss
Mulligan         Durante         McKain       Lochhead
                               Ferrante
   Bertos                                      Daniel
                                  Gao
                     Smeltz             Cov's/Costa

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over without expecting a different result. Doing things this way we've got two striking options, a defensive mid feeding the wings and an attacking mid that can feed the strikers/have a go.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
brumbys wrote:

                               Moss
Mulligan         Durante         McKain       Sigmund
                  Brown            Ferrante
   Bertos/Hearfield     Gao               Daniel
                               Smeltz
Subs:
Paston
Dodd
Hearfield/Kwasnik
Lochhead
 
Bertos depending on availability, Lochhead has looked out of it lately for me.


I do believe it was him that established one of a handfull of moves last week! He'd be my left back for sure. He attacks which is vital and is a pain in the ass to get past, plus he brings some height too.
 
 
Yeah, fair enough. However, his crosses seem like he is having a friendly kick around in the park. I was tossing up between Lochhead and Mulligan, and don't really have a reason for Mulligan ahead of Lochhead. I guess Mulligan hasn't had much game time and experience with us and needs a chance to settle in. Though his honeymoon is almost over and if he doesn't delver the goods on Sunday...
simon_hampton2008-09-24 19:11:57
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
lads, theres so many post atm and i wanna c logical formations posted.
 mine is the same as sydney and adelaides formations 4-1-4-1
 
  siggy----durante----mkain----tony
---------------brown-------------------
bertos---ferrante--daniel------gao
--------------smeltzy------------------
 
subs.
hearfeild- replacemnt for siggy,bertos or daniel------70mins- siggy might blow up and same as below for daniel,bertos
costa- replacemnt for bertos or daniel------65-75mins daniel gets tired and inneffective, bertos not fit or proven
covs- for fun
johnson-for emergency use only
 
serious formations plz guys haha
I really do like the look of this, only you need a keeper on your bench and preplanning subs is hardly a flexible tactic.
As I said, I like this formation and it is pretty much what I've been longing to be played for weeks, with the exception of Mulligan for Siggy and putting it out as a 4231. (I am now completely sick of Mulli's long ball addiction).
The one change I'd make is the bench, with Paston, Mulligan, Hearfield and Covs (maybe Costa or Draper)
You know we belong together...

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Corkster recently mentioned putting Hearfield at CM, which is something that to me seems so lgoical I feel stupid for not considering it earlier. Of course unless Bertos is fit Hearfield is the obvious right winger, but if both are availible, I'd like to maybe see this midfield:
                                                                                                                 Hearfield       Brown
                                                                                                    Bertos              Daniel         Gao
Can Troy provide our much needed central midfield spark??
You know we belong together...

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Corkster wrote:
I think daylight saving is kicking in this weekend
so don't turn up an hour late as the second half will be starting

and we will already be 2 nil up.
This is the most useful post in this thread. I may or may not have made this mistake last time, walking into the zone well late and getting made fun of (thanks santy).
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
  siggy----durante----mkain----tony
---------------brown-------------------
bertos---ferrante--daniel------gao
--------------smeltzy------------------
 

This looks pretty good to me. Give Brown a go in DM only through a lack of decent alternatives (Dodd and Johnson have had their chance). I'd like Daniel to play more centrally and hopefully having both Gao and Bertos on the flanks will improve service (if Bertos is still injured play Hearfield). Mulligan has to be left out imo.


Arsenal2008-09-24 19:47:01

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
How about move Mulligan up to RM? Sigmund can then go to RB and then have Daniel/Gao LM. Didn't Mulligan play RM for AWs against Vanuatu?
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