Agree! As well, many if not most of the reserves are young Auckland players. And Randell, Elliot and McGarry are examples of young kiwi talents arguably undervalued by the Nix.imanixsupporter
Saying they have no real intent for the overall good of NZ football is maybe a bit harsh. They went all in on recruiting as many Kiwis as possible, they have few Aussies (and 2 of the 3 they have now are huge names in Hall and Brimmer). Nix have brought in a lot of substandard Aussies over the years, when AFC have shown there were almost certainly Kiwis of equivalent quality all along, even after their future was made secure (back when the threat of losing their license was real, you could have excused it for PR reasons).
its because they didn't go through their academy. look at Jack Henry-Sinclair, Isa Prins probably will get a trial at AFC before us.
As far as I am aware, JHS didn’t fancy it? Had a trial, didn’t work out and opted to stick to QS contracting. Or am I misremembering that?
I think auckland should be judged on the number of young talent coming through in another 2 - 3 years. By then, they will be firmly established and know the players coming up the ranks, like the young Vicelich kid.
For now, they are still new and with that comes a reliance on 'known' quantities mainly. Risk avoidance, makes sense at this stage of the club history.
Not sure i get where some are coming from with some of these Kiwi players. Does seem that some think because a player hasnt signed with the Phoenix it means the Phoenix havnt tried to sign them or just didnt try hard enough. Sometimes its just not the right move for the player or the club. Not as if the Phoenix have never signed older NZ players over the years not that you would know given the way some carry on.
I don't see Piney showing any favouritism to AFC, have a listen to the Football Fever podcast, you can see (hear) the internal struggles he has to try and stay neutral. The pod is excellent by the way and having Michael Burgess from the Herald is vast improvement over Bonnie Jansen who was on it the last couple of years.
"You can never get a bloody tradesman at Easter, it's a wonder Jesus got crucified" - Karl Pilkington
I think auckland should be judged on the number of young talent coming through in another 2 - 3 years. By then, they will be firmly established and know the players coming up the ranks, like the young Vicelich kid.
For now, they are still new and with that comes a reliance on 'known' quantities mainly. Risk avoidance, makes sense at this stage of the club history.
Already got some seemingly decent talent coming down the pipeline. Nabenu, Vicelich and Mackay look like they could all end up being quality CBs. Codey Phoenix at LB. Mitchell and Martin in midfield. Burns, Rutherford and Naidoo have been ticking away on the wings. Sam Lack was the Central League MVP before we scooped him up. Baldoni had 3 goals in 4 sub apps before he even turned 16. Couple of the TDC lads looked good vs the Nix U17s as well.
Could we ask for a court order to automatically exclude Codey Phoenix from any derby? I do not think Piney would bring himself to say "... Phoenix with a crucial intervention against Phoenix..." on public television.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
If that’s the case then YF should come out with a statement condemning this.. we can’t talk about how poorly behaved members of the Port are, complain how they yell abuse at kids but remain silent on this..ballane
Whats grim is that he says Yellow Fever and thats just not the case. We never have and never would condon that sort of behaviour. YF cant people claiming to be YF when they clearly arnt.
I think he is referring to the interview with Oli Sail rather than anything that happened yesterday.
Also I believe this is the same person who last season put it on twitter that an AFC fan had their jaw broken by a WSW fan rather than the other way around.
In terms of cans being thrown last season at the home derby, the only thing I heard about was the port throwing cans towards David Dome
Seems rather coordinated.
AFC having troubles- sitting with Aussie fans, headbutting their own according to the story, attacking a WSW fan, doxing someone, stalking opposing fans online, Port leaders bragging of being evicted from stadiums and the response is to smear the Yellow Fever.
There’s been one or two pockets of problems in 18 years, but nothing like this in their first year.
Last year we had AP saying how mean we are. This year Callan saying he was let go and the meanie Phoenix. Then we’ve got this guy online saying that two idiots in Perth were Yellow Fever. And not being clear that it was people in the away end in Perth a year ago, not at the derby yesterday.
None of this is good for football.
I'll bite - i posted that on twitter
emphasis on the "hearing" part as i was at the game and this was the wording that family had told me. no context RE when or where, only said that Fever did it
however i do know phoenix fans "storming" into the away bay, however had no merch/gear showing they were affiliated. and for anyone who doubts, they are some of my mates who live in Welly and "got bored and wanted something exciting to do" (storming in quotations as they waltzed in and sat at the back of the bay, no security patrolling)
and also your team have had "fans" (if we can even call them that tbh), racially abusing Dan Hall, making deepfake AI pics of one of the females who post online, blatantly homophobic and using religion as the reason why justifying it - this is all on twitter too.. its a two way problem, but blame shifting isnt going to work cause both sides need to hold accountable for whatever has gone on
also no flares, was just smoke grenades - flares were only used outside the ground
Wow deflecting much he said she said. Smoke grenades/flares who cares they arnt allowed so not acceptable at all. Yellow Fever throwing cans BS, what so they were sitting in the YF Zone were they. Plenty claim to be YF but arnt, yep we have some idiots as well but everything they do cant be associated with YF. As for your dickhead mates so they "got bored and wanted something exciting to do" then went and sat in back of the bay. LMAO thats really trying to get a response.
Wow deflecting much he said she said. Smoke grenades/flares who cares they arnt allowed so not acceptable at all. Yellow Fever throwing cans BS, what so they were sitting in the YF Zone were they. Plenty claim to be YF but arnt, yep we have some idiots as well but everything they do cant be associated with YF. As for your dickhead mates so they "got bored and wanted something exciting to do" then went and sat in back of the bay. LMAO thats really trying to get a response.
One of my favourite Fever moments was the chant for Brockie:
If you score a goal for me Brockie, I will drink responsibly.
Cos most of us weren’t guna, but it was a good fun atmosphere. Everyone was buzzed and happy to be there. There used to be so many funny people on this forum. Perhaps they were all monetized on Twitter or something.
We need to get some fun inter fan traditions going, not whatever PR team has dreamt up. We need to stop the competition for the biggest douche bag and check the guys who think that’s what it’s about.
The newer Phoenix fans need to enjoy players like Eze. Phew! What a goal. When even massive clubs like Spurs or Newcastle go through such lengthy trophy gaps, you can’t turn on yourself and your team so angrily all the time. Imagine as a Spurs fan, that year Leicester won.
I mean sure care about improving the team, and I can understand angst last year when there was no football being attempted.
But a derby with class goals, great drama and a Horatio on the bridge act…it sucks to lose, but they were never comfortable and it went all the way to the wire. Yeh, we’re the underdogs. Obviously. But we went down swinging.
It’s like the NRL and the AFL from the 80s when every game was just melees and fights. They sorted that out. No reason we have to accept dickheads or glorify them.
Auckland's extra media coverage is a function of better on field performances and better marketing teams.
And from where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem like there's much self reflection at Phoenix HQ about how to improve either.
Agree with this. I said it last year too. Auck is showing up the phoenix in their marketing big time. And making the game a fun day out. The phoenix owners need to try something new.
Auckland's extra media coverage is a function of better on field performances and better marketing teams.
And from where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem like there's much self reflection at Phoenix HQ about how to improve either.
Agree with this. I said it last year too. Auck is showing up the phoenix in their marketing big time. And making the game a fun day out. The phoenix owners need to try something new.
Bit more to media coverage than just marketing teams. Facts are much of NZs media is based in Auckland with minimal representation in Wellington. Another fact the Phoenix have tried to engage with media on some of the things they do and NO interest has been shown by anyone in taking that up. For obvious reasons (billionares) the marketing departments of the two clubs are very different things. Given the concrete jungle we play in dont think its possible to do some of the things they do. Vicious circle you want good a fun day out, that costs money to put on and to be honest the numbers attending dont justify abig spend to put that on.
Auckland's extra media coverage is a function of better on field performances and better marketing teams.
And from where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem like there's much self reflection at Phoenix HQ about how to improve either.
Agree with this. I said it last year too. Auck is showing up the phoenix in their marketing big time. And making the game a fun day out. The phoenix owners need to try something new.
my kids have had a great time at Nix games with a whole bunch of activities around the concourse which, give the stadium design, is out of sight of media and those that only walk in and out of the of zone with their blinkers on.
Edit: tbf the open nature of Mt smart like Porirua Park does mean i can watch the football and the kids can go and do their thing on the embankment.
I’m glad Piney tries not to be too happy when he sees the AFC, but not wearing their jersey and posing with their staff I’d be a good start. And when the broadcast company forgets to show the Fever tifo. Not spending the start of the derby talking about Terry McFlynn coming to sit next to the commentary position like he’s a chum.
Better just to let him be an AFC fan and have some Nix guys on too, than he has to force himself to be neutral.
Edit: And just on the subject, we’re lucky to have AFC supporters like 20Legend and AucklandPhoenix here while they still know everything, so they can tell us how bad we are at everything. And how much we should be abasing ourselves. We’re not worthy.
To change the subject. Anyone else gutted that Eze is only on a one year deal? Which A-League club do we reckon is poaching him from us at the end of the season?
To change the subject. Anyone else gutted that Eze is only on a one year deal? Which A-League club do we reckon is poaching him from us at the end of the season?
Yea I thought Eze was a risky signing on paper when he was announced. Turns out how wrong I was (at least based on current performances, though tbf it's still early season).
Would sign him for 1 more year now if possible, take the risk.
One of my favourite Fever moments was the chant for Brockie:
If you score a goal for me Brockie, I will drink responsibly.
Cos most of us weren’t guna, but it was a good fun atmosphere. Everyone was buzzed and happy to be there. There used to be so many funny people on this forum. Perhaps they were all monetized on Twitter or something.
We need to get some fun inter fan traditions going, not whatever PR team has dreamt up. We need to stop the competition for the biggest douche bag and check the guys who think that’s what it’s about.
The newer Phoenix fans need to enjoy players like Eze. Phew! What a goal. When even massive clubs like Spurs or Newcastle go through such lengthy trophy gaps, you can’t turn on yourself and your team so angrily all the time. Imagine as a Spurs fan, that year Leicester won.
I mean sure care about improving the team, and I can understand angst last year when there was no football being attempted.
But a derby with class goals, great drama and a Horatio on the bridge act…it sucks to lose, but they were never comfortable and it went all the way to the wire. Yeh, we’re the underdogs. Obviously. But we went down swinging.
It’s like the NRL and the AFL from the 80s when every game was just melees and fights. They sorted that out. No reason we have to accept dickheads or glorify them.
One thing that makes me slightly sad (maybe nostalgic is a better word) is seeing the lack of OG Phoenix fans at matches these days (i.e., 07-10 days).
I guess people move on, move cities, find other hobbies etc, but I remember plenty of regulars back in the days that no longer show up.
Saying they have no real intent for the overall good of NZ football is maybe a bit harsh. They went all in on recruiting as many Kiwis as possible, they have few Aussies (and 2 of the 3 they have now are huge names in Hall and Brimmer). Nix have brought in a lot of substandard Aussies over the years, when AFC have shown there were almost certainly Kiwis of equivalent quality all along, even after their future was made secure (back when the threat of losing their license was real, you could have excused it for PR reasons).
you make it sound like afc uncovered a lot of kiwi talent that the Nix were missing, when, apart from Randall and maybe gillion (but he's not really been impactful), the kiwis that have had any significant role at afc were all already all whites and played professionally before.
And we weren't signing those players... you gotta ask why?
Saying they have no real intent for the overall good of NZ football is maybe a bit harsh. They went all in on recruiting as many Kiwis as possible, they have few Aussies (and 2 of the 3 they have now are huge names in Hall and Brimmer). Nix have brought in a lot of substandard Aussies over the years, when AFC have shown there were almost certainly Kiwis of equivalent quality all along, even after their future was made secure (back when the threat of losing their license was real, you could have excused it for PR reasons).
you make it sound like afc uncovered a lot of kiwi talent that the Nix were missing, when, apart from Randall and maybe gillion (but he's not really been impactful), the kiwis that have had any significant role at afc were all already all whites and played professionally before.
And we weren't signing those players... you gotta ask why?
One of my favourite Fever moments was the chant for Brockie:
If you score a goal for me Brockie, I will drink responsibly.
Cos most of us weren’t guna, but it was a good fun atmosphere. Everyone was buzzed and happy to be there. There used to be so many funny people on this forum. Perhaps they were all monetized on Twitter or something.
We need to get some fun inter fan traditions going, not whatever PR team has dreamt up. We need to stop the competition for the biggest douche bag and check the guys who think that’s what it’s about.
The newer Phoenix fans need to enjoy players like Eze. Phew! What a goal. When even massive clubs like Spurs or Newcastle go through such lengthy trophy gaps, you can’t turn on yourself and your team so angrily all the time. Imagine as a Spurs fan, that year Leicester won.
I mean sure care about improving the team, and I can understand angst last year when there was no football being attempted.
But a derby with class goals, great drama and a Horatio on the bridge act…it sucks to lose, but they were never comfortable and it went all the way to the wire. Yeh, we’re the underdogs. Obviously. But we went down swinging.
It’s like the NRL and the AFL from the 80s when every game was just melees and fights. They sorted that out. No reason we have to accept dickheads or glorify them.
One thing that makes me slightly sad (maybe nostalgic is a better word) is seeing the lack of OG Phoenix fans at matches these days (i.e., 07-10 days).
I guess people move on, move cities, find other hobbies etc, but I remember plenty of regulars back in the days that no longer show up.
Unearth a Burnsy or a Krishna or start a winning or heck even unbeaten run…! That’s the way to find out who’s still in town.
But yeh Kiwis move around notoriously. Plenty of them probably in front of tube in the middle of the night from Europe or South America or Asia or wherever…
How did that donkey Cosgrove get team of the week? A couple of tap ins, elbowing people in the face, a wrestling throw, missing an open goal from in front, generally poor link play and slower than my grandma
One of my favourite Fever moments was the chant for Brockie:
If you score a goal for me Brockie, I will drink responsibly.
Cos most of us weren’t guna, but it was a good fun atmosphere. Everyone was buzzed and happy to be there. There used to be so many funny people on this forum. Perhaps they were all monetized on Twitter or something.
We need to get some fun inter fan traditions going, not whatever PR team has dreamt up. We need to stop the competition for the biggest douche bag and check the guys who think that’s what it’s about.
The newer Phoenix fans need to enjoy players like Eze. Phew! What a goal. When even massive clubs like Spurs or Newcastle go through such lengthy trophy gaps, you can’t turn on yourself and your team so angrily all the time. Imagine as a Spurs fan, that year Leicester won.
I mean sure care about improving the team, and I can understand angst last year when there was no football being attempted.
But a derby with class goals, great drama and a Horatio on the bridge act…it sucks to lose, but they were never comfortable and it went all the way to the wire. Yeh, we’re the underdogs. Obviously. But we went down swinging.
It’s like the NRL and the AFL from the 80s when every game was just melees and fights. They sorted that out. No reason we have to accept dickheads or glorify them.
One thing that makes me slightly sad (maybe nostalgic is a better word) is seeing the lack of OG Phoenix fans at matches these days (i.e., 07-10 days).
I guess people move on, move cities, find other hobbies etc, but I remember plenty of regulars back in the days that no longer show up.
Pensioners these days have to choose between paying for insurance/rates/food or splashing on entertainment.
Auckland's extra media coverage is a function of better on field performances and better marketing teams.
And from where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem like there's much self reflection at Phoenix HQ about how to improve either.
Agree with this. I said it last year too. Auck is showing up the phoenix in their marketing big time. And making the game a fun day out. The phoenix owners need to try something new.
my kids have had a great time at Nix games with a whole bunch of activities around the concourse which, give the stadium design, is out of sight of media and those that only walk in and out of the of zone with their blinkers on.
Edit: tbf the open nature of Mt smart like Porirua Park does mean i can watch the football and the kids can go and do their thing on the embankment.
Auckland have a damn slide. That'd be in the harbour if we had that in Wellington 😄
Saying they have no real intent for the overall good of NZ football is maybe a bit harsh. They went all in on recruiting as many Kiwis as possible, they have few Aussies (and 2 of the 3 they have now are huge names in Hall and Brimmer). Nix have brought in a lot of substandard Aussies over the years, when AFC have shown there were almost certainly Kiwis of equivalent quality all along, even after their future was made secure (back when the threat of losing their license was real, you could have excused it for PR reasons).
you make it sound like afc uncovered a lot of kiwi talent that the Nix were missing, when, apart from Randall and maybe gillion (but he's not really been impactful), the kiwis that have had any significant role at afc were all already all whites and played professionally before.
And we weren't signing those players... you gotta ask why?
we have all whites in a lot of those positions.
We haven't signed fringe all whites returning from overseas like Auckland have. I'm sure we could have signed the likes of De Vries, Pijnaker, Mata before they did (I know Howieson had other factors) but they just didn't seem interested. They didn't want to gamble on anyone who hadn't played A-League or higher but were happy to gamble on their own academy players who had played National League at best.
Do like how people seem to think the Phoenix just have to offer a contract and players will sign. For all you know the Phoenix may have offered those players contracts but they just didnt want to come here. There have been players who have been offered contracts in the past who didnt want to come really dont see the problem. In Howisons case they tried more than once but he chose to stay in Auckland there were some before him as well do just dont see why there wouldnt been some since yet seems some think so. Just dont get the assumption made by some that Phoenix may not have tried.
As far as I know, Franny De Vries approached the club on his return from Sweden. It was in his interview with Piney pre-derby on the radio. He was diplomatic about being turned down, and sounded twice as much a gentleman as Ollie Sail.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
depending on when De Vries arrived back in NZ, was it 2023? I'm trying to remember who our LB was at the time, was it Kelly-Heald and Sutton? If so we had the spot covered and clearly didn't see the need to add another one.
The Nix's financial model is heavily built around selling on young players for transfer fees. The bumper year in 2024 of big fees for Paulsen, Surman & Old has cemented that strategy. Then the big drop in the annual APL disbursement, has made it even more important.
The club signs older Kiwis like FDV and Rogerson (if they were yes interested in coming to Welly) you then potentially stifle the development of say Sutton (now yes left) and young wingers like Walker, GSR, LBS etc take your pick. Even OVH earlier
They probably should have made Randall an offer. Greeny & Iffy must have had conversation or two about Jesse R. FDV who knows, the Nix's reasoning but for sure a few years ago they would have seen Sutton as having the potential to generate the club a fee.
Not sure Pijnaker (ex Declan's Ole) would have been interested in playing in Welly, and Howieson has family reasons for staying in Auckland. Basically each situation is different. The club have taken a punt of cheap, new to the ALM Kiwis like Piper and Dan Edwards.
PS - and FDV does seem a top quality, classy guy. An ex Cantab he'd make a good captain if a Sth Island A League club ever launches.
Do like how people seem to think the Phoenix just have to offer a contract and players will sign. For all you know the Phoenix may have offered those players contracts but they just didnt want to come here. There have been players who have been offered contracts in the past who didnt want to come really dont see the problem. In Howisons case they tried more than once but he chose to stay in Auckland there were some before him as well do just dont see why there wouldnt been some since yet seems some think so. Just dont get the assumption made by some that Phoenix may not have tried.
Trying and not getting it done is the same outcome as not trying.
Yes you can blame money - that is probably a factor in some cases - but I bet not all. Environment, ambition, team mates, culture are all factors.
Personally if I'm a pro watching Chiefy struggle on last season and not get sacked (or the club visibly do anything really) I'd probably stick it out elsewhere as well.
The Nix's financial model is heavily built around selling on young players for transfer fees. The bumper year in 2024 of big fees for Paulsen, Surman & Old has cemented that strategy. Then the big drop in the annual APL disbursement, has made it even more important.
The club signs older Kiwis like FDV and Rogerson (if they were yes interested in coming to Welly) you then potentially stifle the development of say Sutton (now yes left) and young wingers like Walker, GSR, LBS etc take your pick. Even OVH earlier
They probably should have made Randall an offer. Greeny & Iffy must have had conversation or two about Jesse R. FDV who knows, the Nix's reasoning but for sure a few years ago they would have seen Sutton as having the potential to generate the club a fee.
Not sure Pijnaker (ex Declan's Ole) would have been interested in playing in Welly, and Howieson has family reasons for staying in Auckland. Basically each situation is different. The club have taken a punt of cheap, new to the ALM Kiwis like Piper and Dan Edwards.
Additional factor in FDV was that he was recovering from an injury I think - was it an ACL??? I can understand how he would not be on WelNix "must buy" list at that time. As for Randall, it is hard to compare how he looked to an observer two years ago to how he looks like now, and it may be that his potential then was not obvious, especially if scouting (outside the academy) was a lower priority under the financial model.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
The club have in the past sometimes not been great with their communications re attracting NZ players to the clubs.
I remember when Tim Payne was in NZ at Eastern Suburbs, the Nix sent him an email invitation to trial. Not even a phone call. Which he found almost insulting. Some story like that.
Though I think it was one of those messy periods at the Nix when there was no head coach, either post Kalezic before Rudan appointed, or post Rudes before Talay appointed. Talay signed Payne.
Did he find it insulting that he had to trial or that he received the offer of trial by email?
My vague memory (it's a while ago now), is that yes that the only communication was via email.
I mean if true (and like all rumours it may not be), it is a very odd way to extend a trial invite. Surely you can spend 5 mins to make a phone call.
What I think is definitely true is it was yes in a time of a head coaching vaccum, and the Nix being fairly disorganised. Post Kalezic was definitely such a time, with Rudan only appointed weeks before the 2018/19 season kicked off.
This high line concept is killing me. We can play reasonably well overall but you try that with inexperienced kids when it requires so much focus and discipline, only for one lapse to give away a soft goal. You have to assume that if we persist with it we're going to give away a minimum of a goal a game to this tactic, so we then have to find a way to score two or more if we're planning on winning anything
This high line concept is killing me. We can play reasonably well overall but you try that with inexperienced kids when it requires so much focus and discipline, only for one lapse to give away a soft goal. You have to assume that if we persist with it we're going to give away a minimum of a goal a game to this tactic, so we then have to find a way to score two or more if we're planning on winning anything
I guess we are halfway there, then... Seriously though, Chiefy was bemoaning two goals "given away"because of poor execution of the game plan. So it looks the high line is here to stay, and that "beatings will continue until morale improves to a satisfactory level".
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
