Wellington Phoenix Men

AFC President message to FFA: no NZ teams by 2011

621 replies · 9,179 views
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tony P wrote:
Guys do not� buy into this as it will never happen.
�

I will seek clarification from FFA as to what actually was said.

�

In terms of Fifa we are an Australian club as our players are all registred in Australia and that is why we are not allowed to�qualify via Oceania for the World Club championships.

�

No need to write to AFC or do anything like that.
Yet we can't qualify for the Asian Champions League, seems like Asia are determined to keep us out.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If NZ pressed for Asia then we would be okay in aleague + ACL?

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think we've got to take this whole progression to Asia slowly. I'd say the next thing for us (nix) to do is secure the liscence for the coming tree years - which I'm sure we will, then we start working on consistantly finishing in the top four and actually challinging for the top spot. Once we get that perhaps the nix and can start pushing for the ACL. By that stage perhaps NZ Football will be ready to move from Oceania to Asia. If and when we do move I can't imaging Oceania surviving, which will suck for the other pacific islands.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
From smh today in relation to this story http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/football/a-league/competition-needs-to-cut-ties-with-nz/2008/11/16/1226770257079.html

Competition 'needs to cut ties with NZ'

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Sebastian Hassett

November 17, 2008
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THE A-League must rid itself of its sole New Zealand team, Wellington Phoenix, by 2011 and become an exclusively Australian competition, according to Asian Football Confederation president Mohammed Bin Hammam.

In an interview aired on SBS yesterday, Bin Hammam said the time would soon come for the A-League to dispense with its Kiwi connections and that both nations should maintain domestic championships without foreign intervention.

Confusion has long reigned over what status the Phoenix holds, whether they are considered to be an Australian club or a New Zealand club and thus, whether they fall under the jurisdiction of the AFC or the Oceania Football Confederation.

The matter could emerge as a particularly complex issue in the event that the Phoenix either win the A-League minor premiership or the grand final, thus qualifying them to compete as Australia's entrant in the Asian Champions League, despite New Zealand belonging to a different confederation.

There has also been considerable talk about whether or not the Phoenix could compete in Oceania's premier continental club competition, the O-League, with OFC officials publicly lending their weight in favour of the Phoenix's participation.

However, while the AFC would move to block Wellington from participating in the Asian Champions League, FIFA remains opposed to the Phoenix playing in the O-League, effectively leaving the club in something of a no-man's land.

The AFC president also again raised the proposition of promotion-relegation being brought into Australian domestic football, which was one of the key reasons Australia was denied extra places in next season's expanded Asian Champions League, which grows to 32 teams

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Stevo wrote:
Man, this kind of sh*t gives me the sh*ts.  At least Sepp Blatter loves us...
 
yep that and $4.50 will get you a coffee in this town....and the $4.50  wont change its mind in two minutes...
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ditch Oceania by 2011, it's the only way to get out of this mess and to avoid all the confusion.
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If they are going to chuck the Phoenix, the confirmed answer needs to come now so Terry can shut this down and not waste millions of dollars in the next two and a half years for no future.

Leave the FFA with the credibility lacking 7 team league they would have had without the Phoenix.

I would hope Frank Lowy and co. are going off in peoples ears about this, Terry spends money to bring Fred here and then a headcase opens his mouth on TV and completely blows away all the positives in Terry's investment for the profile of the A-League.

Tell us now Ben Buckley... either set us free or commit to the future.
Baiter2008-11-17 10:04:54


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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
NZ will be  in Asia Confed by then anyway

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Seeing as everyone at NZ football says we can't afford that, i have my doubts.

It could be Bin Hamman making a play for 11 votes and a half world cup place, but it would need significant financial backing from AFC and/or FIFA to make it remotely financially viable for many of the poorest FA's in the world.

If I'd known this yesterday Smithy could have mentioned it in his chat with Franz Beckenbauer and got him on side.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I can't see the A League bringing in promotion relegation any time soon, even the MLS which is well established hasn't got to that point, so I wouldn't worry. I think the whole Oceania, Asia thing needs to be sorted though, I think realistically Asia needs to be split up and South East Asia can then join up with Oceania.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
theprof wrote:
I think we've got to take this whole progression to Asia slowly. I'd say the next thing for us (nix) to do is secure the liscence for the coming tree years - which I'm sure we will, then we start working on consistantly finishing in the top four and actually challinging for the top spot. Once we get that perhaps the nix and can start pushing for the ACL. By that stage perhaps NZ Football will be ready to move from Oceania to Asia. If and when we do move I can't imaging Oceania surviving, which will suck for the other pacific islands.
 
Question: when does the current Nix licence expire? Looks like, from above comments, that it's the end of this season ("... secure it for the coming 3 years").l 
 
This whole Nix status thing needs to be sorted out, hopefully with the club and NZF singing from the same song sheet, to get the game in NZ on to a secure footing locally and internationally.
 
I'm sure Tony and Terry are doing their damndest to sort it out for the Nix and we all wish them the best of luck.
 
It sure seems like a shambles from the outside looking in (as a fan).
 
Love to be a fly on the wall at some of the Nix management meetings.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

if I recall correctly the current liscence covers the rest of this season and the 2009 season, so the nix then need to secure it from then on, to cover 2011 and beyond.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hmm. Not too sure what to make of all this.

I'll go and have a think about it.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
This has been troubling me all night.  Firstly the club must ensure the license is renewed quickly.  Secondly the FFA should be standing up and supporting the Nix,  after all we are one of their clubs.  Potential investors are sitting back, waiting to see what is going to happen and with the economy the way it currently is why would they be prepared to back a club/competition that may not be here in two years.  Come on FFA do the right thing,  back your clubs,  push for them to be in the Asian Champions league.  The A-League must show stability or it will faulter.  They started it wrong by not having it on Free to Air TV,  they can fix that in a couple of seasons, but they have to stand up for their clubs.  We the fans should also be advised fully by the club on the situation,  it may require that the fan base along with the club lobby the FFA, AFC and Fifa. 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think right now, we need to hear publicly from the FFA where they stand on this issue.
We can't have this hanging over us indefinetely as it'd set us up for failure both on and off the field from next season. If FFA are taking this muppet's advice seriously, then we need to know that soon.
I also hope that FFA realise that withdrawing the Nix from HAL would mean that NZ football - as good as .
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
I think right now, we need to hear publicly from the FFA where they stand on this issue.
We can't have this hanging over us indefinetely as it'd set us up for failure both on and off the field from next season. If FFA are taking this muppet's advice seriously, then we need to know that soon.
I also hope that FFA realise that withdrawing the Nix from HAL would mean that NZ football - as good as .
 
My only comment, at the moment, is that I very much doubt that the FFA give a flying f**k on whether NZ Football dies or not

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
My only comment, at the moment, is that I very much doubt that the FFA give a flying f**k on whether NZ Football dies or not
 
Jag ...... mate that's crazy Frank Lowy wants you in ......  he has gone out of his way to keep you in.
 
The problem is with the AFC .... why they have brought this up at this point in time is interesting as many of the Asian countries are still objecting to Australia entry into the AFC and maybe their is some heat behind the scenes to make life difficult for Australia ....... it makes no sense to get rid of you guys with 4.6 million people and being broadcast nation wide in NZ ..... and I guess the brodcast deal into NZ partly funds the Foxs payment to the FFA so there is no way FFA want to hear this.

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
herman wrote:
I can't see the A League bringing in promotion relegation any time soon, even the MLS which is well established hasn't got to that point, so I wouldn't worry. I think the whole Oceania, Asia thing needs to be sorted though, I think realistically Asia needs to be split up and South East Asia can then join up with Oceania.


The other thing is I don't think there is the money or the crowd support to support a second tier competition in australia/nz. if some teams are struggling or run on shoe strings at the moment how could a professional division 2 be run?

I'm sure we've all gone through this a million times before.

The whole thing is a crap shoot.


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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Guys, this is Football Politics!
 
Fans do not need to be invoved in this stuff (unless you're a Victory fan then you always get your way with the FFA!) 
 
I would like to see UEFA tell the English FA to kick Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham or the Scottish FA to dump Berwick Rovers in order to gain extra places in their Continental Club Competitions.
 
The AFC, and more accurately the President, is just being pushy. And also they were only recommendations not forced changes!
 
 
 
 

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
C-Diddy wrote:
Guys, this is Football Politics!
 
Fans do not need to be invoved in this stuff (unless you're a Victory fan then you always get your way with the FFA!) 
 
I would like to see UEFA tell the English FA to kick Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham or the Scottish FA to dump Berwick Rovers in order to gain extra places in their Continental Club Competitions.
 
The AFC, and more accurately the President, is just being pushy. And also they were only recommendations not forced changes!
 
 
 
 


The difference with Welsh clubs in an English league, or English clubs in a Scottish with a NZ club (as the AFC seem to see it) in a Aussie league, is that in the UK the parent FA's are in the same confederation, ie UEFA, whereas the the parent FA for the Nix (NZFA) is in a different confederation (OFC) than the league (AFC)

When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Baiter wrote:
If they are going to chuck the Phoenix, the confirmed answer needs to come now so Terry can shut this down and not waste millions of dollars in the next two and a half years for no future.

Leave the FFA with the credibility lacking 7 team league they would have had without the Phoenix.

I would hope Frank Lowy and co. are going off in peoples ears about this, Terry spends money to bring Fred here and then a headcase opens his mouth on TV and completely blows away all the positives in Terry's investment for the profile of the A-League.

Tell us now Ben Buckley... either set us free or commit to the future.


To be fair North Queensland would have probably been rushed in if we didn't come in.

a.haak

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If Asia and Oceania join it will be problem solved, if NZF don't realise this then both Phoenix and All Whites are stuffed.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:
To be fair North Queensland would have probably been rushed in if we didn't come in.


They had already said no due to timeframes and funding.  Prett7y sure they are on the third set of investors since then.

Also Eejhit, yes on the England -> Wales thing, but Tahitian clubs play in the French Cup.  That's an Oceania nation, in a UEFA competition.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:

[Also Eejhit, yes on the England -> Wales thing, but Tahitian clubs play in the French Cup.� That's an Oceania nation, in a UEFA competition.


French Cup is not a UEFA competetion.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ginger_eejit wrote:
C-Diddy wrote:
Guys, this is Football Politics!
 
Fans do not need to be invoved in this stuff (unless you're a Victory fan then you always get your way with the FFA!) 
 
I would like to see UEFA tell the English FA to kick Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham or the Scottish FA to dump Berwick Rovers in order to gain extra places in their Continental Club Competitions.
 
The AFC, and more accurately the President, is just being pushy. And also they were only recommendations not forced changes!
 
 
 
 


The difference with Welsh clubs in an English league, or English clubs in a Scottish with a NZ club (as the AFC seem to see it) in a Aussie league, is that in the UK the parent FA's are in the same confederation, ie UEFA, whereas the the parent FA for the Nix (NZFA) is in a different confederation (OFC) than the league (AFC)
Actually the Nix are licensed to the A League so our parent FA is the FFA not NZF (even tho' NZF actually hold the license for the Nix). All very confusing
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Hard News wrote:

Also Eejhit, yes on the England -> Wales thing, but Tahitian clubs play in the French Cup.  That's an Oceania nation, in a UEFA competition.


French Cup is not a UEFA competetion.


It is a competition in a UEFA country, like the A-League is a competition in an AFC country.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Is NZ joining asia even a possibilty? Im just wondering.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Christo wrote:
herman wrote:
I can't see the A League bringing in promotion relegation any time soon, even the MLS which is well established hasn't got to that point, so I wouldn't worry. I think the whole Oceania, Asia thing needs to be sorted though, I think realistically Asia needs to be split up and South East Asia can then join up with Oceania.


The other thing is I don't think there is the money or the crowd support to support a second tier competition in australia/nz. if some teams are struggling or run on shoe strings at the moment how could a professional division 2 be run?

I'm sure we've all gone through this a million times before.

The whole thing is a crap shoot.




The current A-league teams would be better off financially if more of them were able to play in the ACL, which would improve the viability of the whole competition.  Catch 22 on that.

It would also make it easier if they didn't need to wait for well over a year after gaining entry before they get to play any ACL games.  I am sure that CCM and the Jets would have been better off this season if they knew they didn't need to wait so long before ACL money started coming in.  In that scenario we may not have managed to get our hands on Durante and Kwasnik.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If Fifa say the phoenix are apart of AFC, and this Mohammad man wants us part of Oceania, would Fifa not just over power AFC?

Personally I think the best thing for the A-league is to include more New Zealand teams. (Christchurch Reverends ?) and makes NZ teams non-imports in all teams.Michael2008-11-17 16:24:48
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Portillo wrote:
Is NZ joining asia even a possibilty? Im just wondering.


Many years ago (before Aus) it was tried and failed.  Now, the previous CEO of NZS (and occassional poster on here) reckons there is no way we could afford it.  Also, OFC would fight it tooth and nail as without us they would cease to exist and lose a HUGE wodge of power.
Hard News2008-11-17 16:25:15

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Portillo wrote:
Is NZ joining asia even a possibilty? Im just wondering.
Yes, though the AFC would never let us. The only way would be for FIFA to put us in but that would almost certainly mean the merging of AFC and OFC because as HN said above, the OFC is nothing without us. On the money issue if OFC and AFC merged I think NZ would cope however the islands would be very bad off, don't know how FIFA/AFC would solve this without paying for their expenses.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
my thoughts are as follows. tell me what you think.

1) to introduce promotion/relegation you need at LEAST 20 teams, right? 10 to play in Serie A and 10 to play in Serie B. Funny thing is that the plans for the A-League were to have max.14 professional teams.

2) Ok, they want to get rid of a NZ team. But shouldn't they see how the new Australian teams perform first? Who's to say that the Fury won't be the new Knights?? What would happen in case the 2 new teams will come 10th and 9th, then say Jets and Perth will come 8th and 7th and the Nix will finish anywhere between 1st and 6th??

3) Sure, we don't have the numbers that Melbourne or Sydney have, but we're not that bad either. By having a NZ side, the FFA is sure to "spread" the A-League system over the ditch. and that means money from the Nix, from its supporters, merchandise etc.

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
newzealandpower wrote:
my thoughts are as follows. tell me what you think.1) to introduce promotion/relegation you need at LEAST 20 teams, right? 10 to play in Serie A and 10 to play in Serie B. Funny thing is that the plans for the A-League were to have max.14 professional teams.2) Ok, they want to get rid of a NZ team. But shouldn't they see how the new Australian teams perform first? Who's to say that the Fury won't be the new Knights?? What would happen in case the 2 new teams will come 10th and 9th, then say Jets and Perth will come 8th and 7th and the Nix will finish anywhere between 1st and 6th?? 3) Sure, we don't have the numbers that Melbourne or Sydney have, but we're not that bad either. By having a NZ side, the FFA is sure to "spread" the A-League system over the ditch. and that means money from the Nix, from its supporters, merchandise etc.
Clearly it has nothing to do with how well we play. They want us gone most probably because we are not part of their confederation. When broadcasting rights are renegotiated if a NZ team isn't in it the FFA have just lost 4.2 million viewers which will mean they lose tons of money. FFA won't do it too much to lose and really if they want a promotion/relegation league they are going to need New Zealand.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Portillo wrote:
Is NZ joining asia even a possibilty? Im just wondering.
Yes, though the AFC would never let us. The only way would be for FIFA to put us in but that would almost certainly mean the merging of AFC and OFC because as HN said above, the OFC is nothing without us. On the money issue if OFC and AFC merged I think NZ would cope however the islands would be very bad off, don't know how FIFA/AFC would solve this without paying for their expenses.


If it did happen. I would imagine the pacific teams playing each other as a 1st qualifying round, as AFC have the smaller teams playing off early, I imagine you would see something similar with the pacific sides, so just whoever got to the next round would have to worry about cash.

Surely if some of the poor smaller footballing Asian nations can stay alive the OFC ones could too?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tony Pignata on Radiosport after the 5 news.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Clearly it has nothing to do with how well we play. They want us gone most probably because we are not part of their confederation. When broadcasting rights are renegotiated if a NZ team isn't in it the FFA have just lost 4.2 million viewers which will mean they lose tons of money. FFA won't do it too much to lose and really if they want a promotion/relegation league they are going to need New Zealand.


fair point but that also falls into what I said about all the cash they would lose by cutting us off the roaster. Not only will they lose the broadcasting rights but also the merchandise, the people flying across the ditch to watch the games and the money they make off the Nix.

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Stevo wrote:
Tony Pignata on�Radiosport after the 5 news.
Thanks, is it on this issue?
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