Alternative Wellington Stadium

I don't think it would be THAT expensive for a 11,000 stadium.

Chesterfield and Colchester's stadiums (around 11k) both cost in the 13-16m GBP range (yes they were built around 10-15 years ago so would be a bit higher today, but probably not an insane amount more).

So we could possibly build a stadium for 30-40m NZD. That seems pretty fair. Of course I'm not a builder or commercial property investor so I could be way off, but if other clubs in the UK have done it 'relatively' cheaply... then maybe we can too.

If youre spending 30-40 million on a new stadium, that ballpark of money could surely achieve some sort of appropriate conversion of Sky Stadium instead. You wouldn't need to acquire land, do significant traffic management or infrastructure upgrades, or deal with oppositional neighbours objecting to resource consents and demanding judicial reviews, you'd just be modifying the existing structure. Seems to me to be far less pie in the sky and I can't believe the idea doesn't ever get even floated by anyone. 

Ninja

I don't think it would be THAT expensive for a 11,000 stadium.

Chesterfield and Colchester's stadiums (around 11k) both cost in the 13-16m GBP range (yes they were built around 10-15 years ago so would be a bit higher today, but probably not an insane amount more).

So we could possibly build a stadium for 30-40m NZD. That seems pretty fair. Of course I'm not a builder or commercial property investor so I could be way off, but if other clubs in the UK have done it 'relatively' cheaply... then maybe we can too.

10-15 years ago!!
Man expect to pay double today. So your £13m-16m back then is say £26m-32m today.

Earlier in the thread WanderingSheep (who works in stadium construction?), said the Don's new Plough Lane (capacity 10,000) apparently ended up costing just north of £31m

Labour costs cheaper in NZ but materials won't be much different.
$NZD60-70m minimum to build a new 10K stadium from scratch I'd say. That's a nice one with all the stands fully undercover.

You do a modular kitset one like some in the USA are with open stands, maybe half that.

Wellington Rugby ain't got any money, so any stadium 'JV' would be primarily Rob Morrison's cash I'd guess at.

AI Overview

Don't forget the price of your land 
105 Waterloo Quay, Land Value = $25m
https://services.wellington.govt.nz/property-search/account/yFCpcuPlWDhq9b1vks86zH3E/

Another interesting read is the Stadium financial report https://www.skystadium.co.nz/fileadmin/Documents/Annual_Reports/WRST_AR25.pdf
281,069 attendees (excluding community events),  $10.5m operating expenses.


Personally I'd be looking at how you could get it to be a better match day experience for those currently 5000-15000 crowds.  Can the field be moved closer to a side? can temporary stands 6-12 rows deep be wheeled in close to 2 or 3 sides.

coochiee

Ninja

I don't think it would be THAT expensive for a 11,000 stadium.

Chesterfield and Colchester's stadiums (around 11k) both cost in the 13-16m GBP range (yes they were built around 10-15 years ago so would be a bit higher today, but probably not an insane amount more).

So we could possibly build a stadium for 30-40m NZD. That seems pretty fair. Of course I'm not a builder or commercial property investor so I could be way off, but if other clubs in the UK have done it 'relatively' cheaply... then maybe we can too.

10-15 years ago!!
Man expect to pay double today. So your £13m-16m back then is say £26m-32m today.

Earlier in the thread WanderingSheep (who works in stadium construction?), said the Don's new Plough Lane (capacity 10,000) apparently ended up costing just north of £31m

Labour costs cheaper in NZ but materials won't be much different.
$NZD60-70m minimum to build a new 10K stadium from scratch I'd say. That's a nice one with all the stands fully undercover.

You do a modular kitset one like some in the USA are with open stands, maybe half that.

Wellington Rugby ain't got any money, so any stadium 'JV' would be primarily Rob Morrison's cash I'd guess at.

AI Overview

Stadium construction costs are comparable between the UK and Australia, with some of the most expensive stadiums in the world located in both countries, such as Tottenham Hotspur Stadium (£1 billion) in the UK and Perth Stadium ($1.6 billion AUD) in Australia. Costs vary widely based on stadium size, features, and location, with factors like materials, size, and specific design choices contributing to the overall price. 

I’m an architect and have worked on a couple of stadia over my time (not in NZ), but you’d be closer to the mark with your estimations. Contractors are hungry at the moment but I’d be amazed to see a decent stadium for anything less than that, steelwork alone is expensive. As the next poster says, land value, NIMBYs, lawsuits, unless your government , it’s all unaffordable and will take years. But as a location, it would be a decent alternative to the current stadium (in principle).

Ninja

I don't think it would be THAT expensive for a 11,000 stadium.

Chesterfield and Colchester's stadiums (around 11k) both cost in the 13-16m GBP range (yes they were built around 10-15 years ago so would be a bit higher today, but probably not an insane amount more).

So we could possibly build a stadium for 30-40m NZD. That seems pretty fair. Of course I'm not a builder or commercial property investor so I could be way off, but if other clubs in the UK have done it 'relatively' cheaply... then maybe we can too.

11000, too small for anything. Sure it would look and sound great for a regular game with 7-8k in it, but that's only for half the year. It's not going to be big enough fort other events that bring in the money when the football isnt on.

You gotta remember our league doesnt run for 40+ weeks of the year, so owners have to find other streams of revenue, like concerts etc.

imanixsupporter

If youre spending 30-40 million on a new stadium, that ballpark of money could surely achieve some sort of appropriate conversion of Sky Stadium instead. You wouldn't need to acquire land, do significant traffic management or infrastructure upgrades, or deal with oppositional neighbours objecting to resource consents and demanding judicial reviews, you'd just be modifying the existing structure. Seems to me to be far less pie in the sky and I can't believe the idea doesn't ever get even floated by anyone. 

any changes might necessitate structural changes and earthworks that take into account earthquakes and being built on reclaimed land. Its another factor to consider and not comparable to other developments elsewhere.

Ninja

I don't think it would be THAT expensive for a 11,000 stadium.

Chesterfield and Colchester's stadiums (around 11k) both cost in the 13-16m GBP range (yes they were built around 10-15 years ago so would be a bit higher today, but probably not an insane amount more).

So we could possibly build a stadium for 30-40m NZD. That seems pretty fair. Of course I'm not a builder or commercial property investor so I could be way off, but if other clubs in the UK have done it 'relatively' cheaply... then maybe we can too.

Would be way more than bit higher i would think construction costs have escalated in the 10-15 years since that was built. Im not convinced building a ground with a capacity of only about 12k is much of a solution. 

That's great, but do any of your girls have ANY building or project management experience??

Jokes aside, have reported 😁

Fair points re construction costs these days.

theprof

Ninja

I don't think it would be THAT expensive for a 11,000 stadium.

Chesterfield and Colchester's stadiums (around 11k) both cost in the 13-16m GBP range (yes they were built around 10-15 years ago so would be a bit higher today, but probably not an insane amount more).

So we could possibly build a stadium for 30-40m NZD. That seems pretty fair. Of course I'm not a builder or commercial property investor so I could be way off, but if other clubs in the UK have done it 'relatively' cheaply... then maybe we can too.

11000, too small for anything. Sure it would look and sound great for a regular game with 7-8k in it, but that's only for half the year. It's not going to be big enough fort other events that bring in the money when the football isnt on.

You gotta remember our league doesnt run for 40+ weeks of the year, so owners have to find other streams of revenue, like concerts etc.

Well Adelaide has no issue hosting the Foo Fighters at Hindmarsh every tour and that's 15k seated (16.5k capacity), so maybe it's worth going up to that.

I remember when I was excited for this...

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Procrastinixing

I remember when I was excited for this...

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 the games at hutt rec with the food trucks remains one of my favourite seasons in terms of fan experience 

zonknz

Procrastinixing

I remember when I was excited for this...

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 the games at hutt rec with the food trucks remains one of my favourite seasons in terms of fan experience 

I wasn’t in Wellington when we played at Hutt Rec, but out of curiosity is the Porirua Park experience comparable?

Simon B

zonknz

Procrastinixing

I remember when I was excited for this...

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 the games at hutt rec with the food trucks remains one of my favourite seasons in terms of fan experience 

I wasn’t in Wellington when we played at Hutt Rec, but out of curiosity is the Porirua Park experience comparable?

Bigger temp stadium at hutt rec of course, as it was mens, but you sat right in on the pitch. Best CROUD ever. I think I give the food truck doing the chicken+waffles fries at portirua last weekend the scran edge, but there were numerous trucks with numerous choices.

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Hutt Rec had very close stands on all 4 sides and attendances ranged between 7.8k to 9.3k - So probably a supercharged Porirua Park in a way

Half a Pint

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Hutt Rec had very close stands on all 4 sides and attendances ranged between 7.8k to 9.3k - So probably a supercharged Porirua Park in a way

Now that's a football ground!

It was awesome wasn't it? 

I even enjoyed the internationals they played there in the late 80s when they used to ship the Hutt Valley United scaffold seating over from Te Whiti Park.

I loved the Hutt Rec pop up stadium. Best Nix watching experiance ever. Everything from the stands close to the action, the foodtrucks, the casual friendly staff......everything.
It would be good to see how the economics stacked up between the cost of setting up and running this model vs hiring Sky stadium.
If we keep getting crowds like last weekend then its hard to see how they can afford to hire Sky stadium

austin111

I loved the Hutt Rec pop up stadium. Best Nix watching experiance ever. Everything from the stands close to the action, the foodtrucks, the casual friendly staff......everything.
It would be good to see how the economics stacked up between the cost of setting up and running this model vs hiring Sky stadium.
If we keep getting crowds like last weekend then its hard to see how they can afford to hire Sky stadium

It was also Prime Nathan Burns.

I'm pretty sure yesterday with an attendance of 3,677 we've just had our lowest ever A-League Men attendance in Sky Stadium history (i.e. excl. COVID in Wollongong, and a match in Dunedin in 2013). Can any confirm for me if I am wrong here?

If it was the lowest Wellington attendance ever, that is genuinely disastrous and so sad.

Still not sure why they scheduled a match in Christchurch in April when we have three matches in Wellington this month of November.

I'm quite worried about what our attendance will be next week after back-to-back losses. Hopefully better, or they do some promotion that brings fans in! But for casual fans (the ones who choose on the day to come, or who decide based on the Phoenix's current form, or others who fair enough need to consider the cost of living), it's not looking good.

It is a big problem. I think we are becoming the Knights! Sky Stadium just isn't sustainable.  

Half a Pint

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Hutt Rec had very close stands on all 4 sides and attendances ranged between 7.8k to 9.3k - So probably a supercharged Porirua Park in a way

Why aren't we playing any matches there now (or permanently as a home base and sky stadium for the bigger matches, i.e., derby etc).

Apologies if it's a stupid question..

Procrastinixing

It is a big problem. I think we are becoming the Knights! Sky Stadium just isn't sustainable.  

While it is definitely too big, it might be sustainable (that is, we could attract enough fans to at least break even each season) if we weren't such losers.

In our 18 year history, putting aside that we have never won a Championship, Cup or Premiership:

- We have finished top 3 just twice
- We have only finished better than 6th just five times (6th being mid table mediocrity in a league that has only had 12 teams for 4 seasons and 13 teams for one season. "Making the finals" sounds like a good season and management will declare it to be one but it really isn't)
- We have never finished better than 6th for two consecutive seasons 
- We have finished in the bottom half of the table in 11/18 seasons

And to top it all of we have won just two of our last 14 games in Wellington. 

Our loser owners/bosses will lament that the fans don't turn out. I could accept that if we had Melbourne City levels of success, a team that consistently does well but haven't been able to attract a fan base commensurate with that success. But the team simply has never delivered anywhere near the level of success which is needed to build a healthy fan base. 

As much as we can panic, if we can reassert form before the next home derby we might be okay. The crowd is terrible, but we’re hanging in there in terms of the season.

Gotta remember the league is a bit screwed:

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Ninja

Half a Pint

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Hutt Rec had very close stands on all 4 sides and attendances ranged between 7.8k to 9.3k - So probably a supercharged Porirua Park in a way

Why aren't we playing any matches there now (or permanently as a home base and sky stadium for the bigger matches, i.e., derby etc).

Apologies if it's a stupid question..

The council prefers to invest in a 1st class cricket pitch which probably brings in 100 people to spend locally. Go figure

3400 last match is not great. To be honest why would people pay to watch serial losers? I know its harsh but lots if people in Wellington are struggling financially. Going to watch the Nix is not going to cheer them up. I dont really see how the club can keep hiring a 35,000 seat stadium to seat 3500 people. At this rate we will be playing further matches at Newtown park

Hutt Wreck every day for me. Trains are closer than Wellington Railway station is to Sky Stadium. Heaps of Car Parking - Free on the streets. Heaps of Buses. Great pub across the road and close to Queensgate for any pre or post match shopping.

Could do 2 X 3,000 stands along the pitch, and have terracing at each end at 2,500. Ballane is 100% correct, the Council wants it for a Cricket pitch that less than 30 people watch. That place hummed when we were there. The Belle Vue did outstanding business, the Street cart food sellars did a roaring trade and fans had a better matchday experience without the sour kiosk people that Sky employ. All the pricings were much cheaper.

Hurricanes, Lions, Rugby League and Football would all use it. Small minds and Nimby's are the only obsticles to making it happen.

100% agree on all of that. It would be the death of Sky stadium which is not a bad outcome. Imagine the local nimby reaction. They would need consent for the flood light towers....
I would imagine there would be people on the Hutt council that would consider it a huge boost for the local economy.
As i have posted before by far the cheapest option is to move parts of the Addington stadium to Wellington. 

LG

Hutt Wreck every day for me. Trains are closer than Wellington Railway station is to Sky Stadium. Heaps of Car Parking - Free on the streets. Heaps of Buses. Great pub across the road and close to Queensgate for any pre or post match shopping.

Could do 2 X 3,000 stands along the pitch, and have terracing at each end at 2,500. Ballane is 100% correct, the Council wants it for a Cricket pitch that less than 30 people watch. That place hummed when we were there. The Belle Vue did outstanding business, the Street cart food sellars did a roaring trade and fans had a better matchday experience without the sour kiosk people that Sky employ. All the pricings were much cheaper.

Hurricanes, Lions, Rugby League and Football would all use it. Small minds and Nimby's are the only obsticles to making it happen.

It seems like ages ago that the proposal to move there was made. Is it maybe worth having another go now? Times change and all that... now amalgamation & rationalization the buzzwords. Plus Wellington has a new mayor, a guy who's not only sympathetic to the needs of the people but understands how business works...

Hutt Rec is home to Hutt Districts Cricket Club, Hutt Athletics (and the only athletics ground) and Hutt Old Boys Marist. It was great to be there and worked on a temporary basis but I can’t see it working long term.

austin111

100% agree on all of that. It would be the death of Sky stadium which is not a bad outcome. Imagine the local nimby reaction. They would need consent for the flood light towers....
I would imagine there would be people on the Hutt council that would consider it a huge boost for the local economy.
As i have posted before by far the cheapest option is to move parts of the Addington stadium to Wellington. 

As Christchurch City Council is planning to redevelop the Addington grounds for housing (League fans are actually unhappy about losing their own historical location) the existing stands etc could hopefully be reused somewhere rather than just scrapped which would be a waste.
The problem is surplus capacity.  It's great that the main cities have these prime modern venues like Forsyth Barr or Te Kaha, but they are not going to be magically filled for every game, except for the rare occasions that draw large attendances.  I would think the attendances at Sky Stadium are another example of that.  

Greater Christchurch already has smaller venues Rugby Park (St Albans) and Rangiora Showgrounds (Rangiora basically a satellite town these days). 
Canterbury's NPC rugby team have played games at both.

Christchurch United's Yaldhurst ground has only about a 1,000 capacity, but I think Slava Meyn has plans to expand that. That might be enough to host South Island United games, if the OFC Pro League every does switch to a proper H&A format. There is also English Park.

Basically ChCh doesn't need that Apollo Projects ground anymore. Plus it has one of the faster growing popns now in NZ (much faster growing than Welly) so yeah go build some new housing stock in Addington, to cater for that.

Hopefully the Te Kaha designers have come up with smart solutions when hosting smaller crowds. Only opening half the ground, TV cameras on the other side facing towards the crowd. They have had years to think it all through!

Cantabs at last post the 2011 terrible earthquake, will from 2026 have pretty much the perfect mix of stadiums by NZ measures. That includes Hagley for cricket. 

All good points. 
Hagley Oval works well for prime cricket games. While there was a lot of objections at the time (regarding taking over part of public common green space bequeathed by the city founders to all, for ostensibly a private business use, Cricket NZ), it is a very popular and beautiful cricket venue that also reduces the need for another oval ground in the CBD.
Christchurch growth is indeed rapid, but most of it is towards south west towards both Rolleston and now Lincoln, which means the well established Lincoln Oval (already hosting women's international cricket tests etc) may further grow in importance. Expansion around Rangiora is also significant. 
Apollo Projects may no longer be needed - I am just a bit sentimental about it, after watching more than a few Nix games there whenever the team came to town.   
But not as sentimental as I was about Lancaster Park, where I watched the Nix winning not once but twice against Adelaide United in 2010, with proper big crowds in attendance.
In the second game, Siggy's last minute winning header, just two months before the Feb 2011 earthquake wiped it all out, was a memorable end to that era.

Hagley Park is perfect for all forms of Cricket. Not too big and not too small.

Heard a rumor this week of a wellington concern making enquiry about the seats from a south island temporary stadium that is about to close...

zonknz

Heard a rumor this week of a wellington concern making enquiry about the seats from a south island temporary stadium that is about to close...

Can you elaborate?

Ninja

zonknz

Heard a rumor this week of a wellington concern making enquiry about the seats from a south island temporary stadium that is about to close...

Can you elaborate?

Yes.

zonknz

Heard a rumor this week of a wellington concern making enquiry about the seats from a south island temporary stadium that is about to close...

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They don't even need all the seats. Just grab one of the big covered stands and have the cameras pointed at it during coverage and then put low banks of seating all round the rest of the ground. It literally could be 8k seats and it would be more than big enough for most games. Surely they are going to want to start dismantling the Christchurch temporary stadium asap, is a small new wellington stadium from the seats possible for next season?

It won't be dismantled until Te Kaha opens.
The Crusaders are still to play at least one home game at Addington 2026 Super Rugby season.

And of course the Nix are scheduled to play there April 18th.

I imagine it's only the more temporary steel scaffolding seating that will be able to be dismantled and reused. A wrecking ball to go through the main concrete grandstand to make why for housing??