They have made two grand finals and won a toilet seat. They also finished second in the league once too (on goal difference, so closer to a premiership than us). We are bigger losers than they are
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
Not sure why people doubt the Phoenix about their finances over the years they have been pretty open about how bad it is. If it wasnt for the generosity of the Welnix guys we would have been long gone. As for the stadium there just isnt a quick fix for that in Wellington at moment unless some generous benefactor can be found.
Welnix can always invite more investors onto the Board. MLS clubs seem to have dozens of individual backers.
They tried to get more investors a few years back, dont remember if it was successful or not.
The MLS is remarkable, insofar as it's a sure thing. When it first started many in the US landscape doubted that it could be sustainable. They're surpassed his and while it's nowhere near the scale of the NFL, if you are lucky enough to obtain or invest in a franchise you are basically guaranteed to profit significantly.
The A-League was heading in this direction, but the wheels have fallen off significantly.
However, Foley investing in ACFC would have had a positive effect on the A-League's attractiveness. It re-inforces that these franchises will likely increase in value over the long term.
If investers feel this way, then our current owners will be more inclined to 'maintain the asset' for future gains, and prop up or invest more themselves.
MLS took off when Beckham joined the Galaxy. ALM was in a similar position with DelPiero and WSW when they entered the league. It's all gone downhill massively from there. The money never came to build the stadiums, that's the problem. Fans are increasingly losing interest and connection to their clubs playing in empty stadiums they don't own. It's the harsh reality.
If there's any truth to what Domey said yesterday about the finances, the Phoenix are going to have to get away from the huge fees at Sky Stadium very quickly.
Not sure why people doubt the Phoenix about their finances over the years they have been pretty open about how bad it is. If it wasnt for the generosity of the Welnix guys we would have been long gone. As for the stadium there just isnt a quick fix for that in Wellington at moment unless some generous benefactor can be found.
Welnix can always invite more investors onto the Board. MLS clubs seem to have dozens of individual backers.
They tried to get more investors a few years back, dont remember if it was successful or not.
The MLS is remarkable, insofar as it's a sure thing. When it first started many in the US landscape doubted that it could be sustainable. They're surpassed his and while it's nowhere near the scale of the NFL, if you are lucky enough to obtain or invest in a franchise you are basically guaranteed to profit significantly.
The A-League was heading in this direction, but the wheels have fallen off significantly.
However, Foley investing in ACFC would have had a positive effect on the A-League's attractiveness. It re-inforces that these franchises will likely increase in value over the long term.
If investers feel this way, then our current owners will be more inclined to 'maintain the asset' for future gains, and prop up or invest more themselves.
MLS took off when Beckham joined the Galaxy. ALM was in a similar position with DelPiero and WSW when they entered the league. It's all gone downhill massively from there. The money never came to build the stadiums, that's the problem. Fans are increasingly losing interest and connection to their clubs playing in empty stadiums they don't own. It's the harsh reality.
Not demanding each side builds it’s own ground has stuffed the A League financially.
The MLS has pushed for a long time for franchises to own their own grounds due to the expense of using other people’s facilities (that was a massive reason behind Miami failing back in the day and struggling to come back until very recently).
Many NSL clubs had their own grounds so again could keep their gates. Not a single A League side has that.
I also don’t think MV and MC calling AAMI home helps either side. Who does MC represent for instance?
Supporter of the world's best football teams: Waikato..., Kingz FC, NZ Knights, The Nix, The Argyle & of course the All Whites
What is happening with Western United, and with AFC for that matter re: Western Springs, shows that increasingly professional football is a thin figleaf for property development. And if the property development fails, so does the football.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
Wellington’s main stadium will once again be on the hunt for a new name – and major sponsor – with Sky deciding not to renew its contract for the venue’s naming rights.
Sky’s interim chief customer officer Ant Dureau told the Herald the company had decided to end its partnership with the capital’s biggest venue.
Really sorry for my quite stupid question-and sorry for slightly diverging the thread. Would this change broadcasting from Sky? Or being the name of the stadium and broadcasting the games two different things?Simon B
Wellington’s main stadium will once again be on the hunt for a new name – and major sponsor – with Sky deciding not to renew its contract for the venue’s naming rights.
Sky’s interim chief customer officer Ant Dureau told the Herald the company had decided to end its partnership with the capital’s biggest venue.
With Eden Park getting an upgrade and Wellington not getting a new stadium anytime soon. Do we think the Cake Tin would get an upgrade anytime soon? Eg removable seats, seat colour changes etc. Surely it’s paid off now.
With Eden Park getting an upgrade and Wellington not getting a new stadium anytime soon. Do we think the Cake Tin would get an upgrade anytime soon? Eg removable seats, seat colour changes etc. Surely it’s paid off now.
Stadium took on some extra debt (settlor loans) during Covid years when cashflow dried up. Looks like they will take on some extra (bank of approx $5.5M) debt to pay for upcoming sesmic work. But forecast to have that extra debt repaid by 2028?? Though the extra commercial bank lending is only short term, to be replaced by more settlor lending??
In the linked report below there is Balance Sheet for any numbers tragics. The settlor loans are I think with the two Councils (Regional & WCC). The commercial lending back at construction was $33M with ANZ. It's now down to $500K
Note the important last 2 paragraphs below. ......limited capacity to make material improvements that would provide for a better client and patron experience.
The Trust Deed requires the Trust to be financially autonomous. This requires the generation of sufficient profits to meet loan repayments and provide funds for the capital replacement and development programmes that are necessary to enable the Trust to meet its obligation to maintain a high-quality asset.
Financial autotomy is no longer achievable for the Trust given the Stadium is now an ageing facility, compounded by the additional requirements of seismic resilience works and the impact of the Covid19 pandemic. The Trust still expects to generate positive operating cash flows in most years. It can cover a level of insurance and regular maintenance, but not substantial capex items, such as seismic resilience works or significant capital improvements.
Therefore, continuing to fully invest in the Stadium so that that it operates to best practice as an operationally efficient, safe, and welcoming venue for patrons and hirers, is beyond the means of the Trust alone. The Trust appreciates the financial support it has received from the settlors, and as noted elsewhere in this document, will engage with the settlors on the future operating model of the Trust, including funding options for ongoing capex.
The 5 year projections included here have been prepared on a business-as-usual basis, with 40 plus event days assumed per year.
Over the five-year period, the key inflows and outflows are as follows:
• Net operating cashflows $12.7m (positive, before insurance and grant income) • Cumulative insurance premia absorb $6.0m • Capex of $36.3m • Settlor contributions (via the 2024-34 LTP) of $20.9m
These projections have total capex of $36.3m across 5 years, with $18m of this for seismic resilience works. The Trust acknowledges the capex funding of $33.6m from the settlors across the period of the 2024-34 Long Term Plan, noting that this funding will start in Year 2 of the LTP, FY26.
The Trust intends to commence the necessary seismic resilience works in FY25 using the funding of $4.6m available from the current LTP. The Trust has had a strong response to its recent request for proposals for the seismic resilience works, with tenderers indicating the work is best completed within a 24-month period.
Assuming this work will proceed in the next two years, the Trust will need to increase its commercial borrowings to cover the lag between the work being undertaken and the funding being received from the settlors.
While these projections assume that the seismic works will be completed in FY25 and FY26, before committing to any works the Trust will need to be satisfied that the LTP funding is secured, so that the Trust can service and repay the additional commercial borrowing required. The Trust will work with settlors to progress this matter.
Current borrowing consists of the $4.2m settlor loans (provided in 2020 after the first Covid-19 lockdown) and $0.5m of commercial borrowing.
The other included capex is what is necessary to keep the Stadium operating as a safe and efficient venue, with limited capacity to make material improvements that would provide for a better client and patron experience. With the Stadium approaching 25 years of age, much of the plant equipment and fixtures are from the original build and replacement is required due to age of equipment and obsolescence of parts for repairs. Many Stadiums in Australia and New Zealand built around the same time have received or are earmarked for substantial upgrades, or in some cases replacement.
Great read that mate. Cheers. Let’s hope something comes in the future. I get Wellington has a lot of issues but a lot forget that having a good venue is key to getting better crowds, concerts and good general events that helps the city and keep people here. With a bit of work it could be made so much better. It’s the best located stadium in NZ and really has the potential to be awesome if money was to be spent.
change of mayor, and remove a bunch of the green councillors might see it get looked at, but it wont be happening within the next 3 year term.
Its nothing to do with the Green councilors - I think you'll find all the right wingers running on austerity platforms wouldn't consider throwing money into a pit like that either.
The city simply can't afford it right now, due to decades of mismanagement on both sides of the political sprectrum. Weird to target only one demographic here, especially when I highly doubt the electorate would vote in favour given what it would do to rates.
change of mayor, and remove a bunch of the green councillors might see it get looked at, but it wont be happening within the next 3 year term.
Its nothing to do with the Green councilors - I think you'll find all the right wingers running on austerity platforms wouldn't consider throwing money into a pit like that.
Greens focus is on cycle ways and removing cars from the city, wchich has diverted focus form anything else! sooner the city gets rid of the ehavy green base the better
How exactly are you going to get rid of the "heavy green base" in Wellington? Is this like David Seymour firing the entire public service and replacing them with used car dealers and TikTok influencers?
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
Just because the media only pays attention to the cycleways doesn't mean that's true of the council. For example, they've made outstanding headway on the pipe network this term, the first council in a long time to do so.
Its still an organisational clusterfudge that isn't performing well across the board, but that's also due to all sides of the political spectrum refusing to play nice together. Improvements not happening to the stadium simply cannot be blamed on Green councilors alone and doing so just makes you look a lil silly (they don't even make up a majority of the council!)
If Ray Chung thought a stadium improvement would buy votes, he'd be out there in full force but even he isn't that dumb.
Bit weird you want to gut the soul of what makes Wellington Wellington, but you do you I guess.
change of mayor, and remove a bunch of the green councillors might see it get looked at, but it wont be happening within the next 3 year term.
Its nothing to do with the Green councilors - I think you'll find all the right wingers running on austerity platforms wouldn't consider throwing money into a pit like that.
Greens focus is on cycle ways and removing cars from the city, wchich has diverted focus form anything else! sooner the city gets rid of the ehavy green base the better
hasn't diverted from spending, in real terms, 4 to 5 times more on fixing and maintaining three waters infrastructure. and the cycleway/active transport budget is much less than private or public transport
change of mayor, and remove a bunch of the green councillors might see it get looked at, but it wont be happening within the next 3 year term.
Its nothing to do with the Green councilors - I think you'll find all the right wingers running on austerity platforms wouldn't consider throwing money into a pit like that.
Greens focus is on cycle ways and removing cars from the city, wchich has diverted focus form anything else! sooner the city gets rid of the ehavy green base the better
hasn't diverted from spending, in real terms, 4 to 5 times more on fixing and maintaining three waters infrastructure. and the cycleway/active transport budget is much less than private or public transport
Haha I’ve been sat on this post all day, so thanks to you and Nelfoos for responding with pretty much what I was going to say.
Prof, don’t believe everything you see in the press. I mean, according to stuff, cycle ways killed some under performing , past it cafes, that were no where near them 😂
Anyway back on topic. Better things to spend money on unless it comes from elsewhere.
change of mayor, and remove a bunch of the green councillors might see it get looked at, but it wont be happening within the next 3 year term.
Its nothing to do with the Green councilors - I think you'll find all the right wingers running on austerity platforms wouldn't consider throwing money into a pit like that.
Greens focus is on cycle ways and removing cars from the city, wchich has diverted focus form anything else! sooner the city gets rid of the ehavy green base the better
hasn't diverted from spending, in real terms, 4 to 5 times more on fixing and maintaining three waters infrastructure. and the cycleway/active transport budget is much less than private or public transport
Haha I’ve been sat on this post all day, so thanks to you and Nelfoos for responding with pretty much what I was going to say.
Prof, don’t believe everything you see in the press. I mean, according to stuff, cycle ways killed some under performing , past it cafes, that were no where near them 😂
Anyway back on topic. Better things to spend money on unless it comes from elsewhere.
the post also incorrectly said that cycleways were costing Wellingtonians just over $500 per year over a period, but that was wrong because over half came from nzta.
change of mayor, and remove a bunch of the green councillors might see it get looked at, but it wont be happening within the next 3 year term.
Its nothing to do with the Green councilors - I think you'll find all the right wingers running on austerity platforms wouldn't consider throwing money into a pit like that.
Greens focus is on cycle ways and removing cars from the city, wchich has diverted focus form anything else! sooner the city gets rid of the ehavy green base the better
hasn't diverted from spending, in real terms, 4 to 5 times more on fixing and maintaining three waters infrastructure. and the cycleway/active transport budget is much less than private or public transport
Haha I’ve been sat on this post all day, so thanks to you and Nelfoos for responding with pretty much what I was going to say.
Prof, don’t believe everything you see in the press. I mean, according to stuff, cycle ways killed some under performing , past it cafes, that were no where near them 😂
Anyway back on topic. Better things to spend money on unless it comes from elsewhere.
That might be the case but they also did a pretty good job on badly affecting some successful businesses in areas like Island Bay by removing parks in the shopping centre.
change of mayor, and remove a bunch of the green councillors might see it get looked at, but it wont be happening within the next 3 year term.
Its nothing to do with the Green councilors - I think you'll find all the right wingers running on austerity platforms wouldn't consider throwing money into a pit like that.
Greens focus is on cycle ways and removing cars from the city, wchich has diverted focus form anything else! sooner the city gets rid of the ehavy green base the better
hasn't diverted from spending, in real terms, 4 to 5 times more on fixing and maintaining three waters infrastructure. and the cycleway/active transport budget is much less than private or public transport
Haha I’ve been sat on this post all day, so thanks to you and Nelfoos for responding with pretty much what I was going to say.
Prof, don’t believe everything you see in the press. I mean, according to stuff, cycle ways killed some under performing , past it cafes, that were no where near them 😂
Anyway back on topic. Better things to spend money on unless it comes from elsewhere.
That might be the case but they also did a pretty good job on badly affecting some successful businesses in areas like Island Bay by removing parks in the shopping centre.
Living in Island Bay myself, the changes are outstanding and the suburban centre is back to being the hub it was before the upgrade. I don't struggle to find parks and the area is well served by busses and cycleways.
Coucou is an upgrade on anything we had before and is absolutely pumping on the weekend and Parla is going to be amazing when it opens if it's anything like Kisa (sister restaurant in town).
It's sad some businesses closed due to the disruption and they are a loss to the community but ultimately it was in the name of long overdue and much needed investment that has done wonders for the area and it's future proofing.
We have to distinguish between "businesses closed because of the disruption caused by putting cycleways in" and "businesses closed because of cycleways". The first is true, the second isn't. Cars don't shop.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
We have to distinguish between "businesses closed because of the disruption caused by putting cycleways in" and "businesses closed because of cycleways". The first is true, the second isn't. Cars don't shop.
Very true, but cars carry people to the shops, and in general the people driving the cars wont stop unless they can find a park close to the shop they want to stop at. unfortunately with the number of car parking buildings in the city closed for earthquake strengthening on top of street parking being removed for bus lanes and cycle ways it has become harder and harder to actually stop anywhere near a cafe or business to purchase anything.
I'll stick this here. Looks like Te Kaha (new Christchurch Stadium) will officially open April 20th next year.
Note this season's ALM season finished weekend 3rd-4th May. So hopefully enough time for Nix to play a game there before next season finishes, but looks like it will be a tight scheduling window.
Sounds like Super Rugby will take over the ground the ANZAC Day weekend.
There would be a number of test events in the lead up to the stadium’s practical completion date of April 20, she said. Turf health was a key factor in how events would be scheduled.
if this happened, and I sincerly hope it does, it would be the death knell for the Wellington trust that runs the stadium. With the right upgrades Fraser Park as a venue could well be a decent growd to get to both by train and car.
GridArt_20251110_092203415.jpg6.55 MB I've always felt the New York stadium in Rotherham is a good blueprint for what is needed. It's simple, seats 12,000 and the stands have a decent steepness
if this happened, and I sincerly hope it does, it would be the death knell for the Wellington trust that runs the stadium. With the right upgrades Fraser Park as a venue could well be a decent growd to get to both by train and car.
Its not really near a train, Wingate about 1k away. My ideal would be taking over Trentham Racecourse (horse racing shouldn't exist anyway) and using that area to develop a stadium. Train station right next to it, pub across the road. It's also a stones throw from NZCIS, and its generally less windy than Wellington. Any land not needed can be sold to property developers at Wallaceville Reserve, and given the space possibly develop to be not so obtrusive to residential areas.
GridArt_20251110_092203415.jpg6.55 MB I've always felt the New York stadium in Rotherham is a good blueprint for what is needed. It's simple, seats 12,000 and the stands have a decent steepness
I tend to look to America and the USL for development of football (soccer) specific stadiums. Also fully aware that Wellington Rugby could be involved in the mix too.
Construction costs have skyrocketed since Covid. Wellington Rugby has no money, and why should Welnix solely finance such a project, when stadiums are generally proven to never make money.
Be interested to know the budgeted cost, and who would be paying what.
Have read some articles about cheap smaller modular type grounds being built in the US. But they may have been pre Covid, and with very open grandstands without roofs etc. Not so great in Welly's climate.
This is an old article from 2018 (construction costs may have doubled since then), that investigates post cheap stadium options for A League clubs.
Really a modular design with open stands is the cheapest way to go. Considering the A League is a summer comp, Welnix could agrue that's all that would be needed. And the core fan base of 5,000-6,000 will always go rain, wind or shine.
Construction costs have skyrocketed since Covid. Wellington Rugby has no money, and why should Welnix solely finance such a project, when stadiums are generally proven to never make money.
Be interested to know the budgeted cost, and who would be paying what.
Have read some articles about cheap smaller modular type grounds being built in the US. But they may have been pre Covid, and with very open grandstands without roofs etc. Not so great in Welly's climate.
Edit - USL club Phoenix Rising has a 10,000 seat modular stadium that opened in 2023.
I guess the Nix play in a summer league and would be a bigger tenant than the Wellington NPC team, who mostly play through spring time.
Wouldn’t be surprised if a developer like Malcolm Gillies gets involved too. I understand he wanted to build a stadium at NZCIS but has maybe run into issues with the Councils?
