Wellington Phoenix Men

Coaching Angst - ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

2374 replies · 72,193 views Locked
about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think thats really the crux of it Prof. I think at this stage, we really have overachieved. There was a lot of whinging that we had no recruited well, lost players and went backwards on last year. In the predictions for the end of season table, the majority picked the Phoenix outside the playoffs.With what we have done, the mood on the whole is optimistic, but I don't think complacent.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Not to mention that we've had amazingly good luck with the great majority of results from other games going our way over the last 3 weeks - this has really given us a massive shot in the arm with our own results over the same period, but it's not realistic to expect this good luck run (in terms of other results) will continue until the end of the season.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Not to mention that we've had amazingly good luck with the great majority of results from other games going our way over the last 3 weeks - this has really given us a massive shot in the arm with our own results over the same period, but it's not realistic to expect this good luck run (in terms of other results) will continue until the end of the season.


Agreed - though if we keep playing positive football and the back four perform like they have in the last 3 games, we're in with a chance.
We've conceded twice in 4 games, once from 3 with Pasty back. Liking that form.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ricki hinting at a change of job for him within the club as early as after next season:

Herbert said he was determined to see the Phoenix advance. And that could mean his role changes before the end of his four-year tenure, perhaps even vacating the coach's box.

"I'm locked in for four years but a lot of that is about expanding the club, and my role might change after another year, I might go into another type of position," he said.

"We've never had academies, second teams, but that will happen, someone needs to oversee that growth, and that could be a role I take."




Wibblebutt2012-02-23 09:38:02



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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So we could have Miron here next year..

Yellow Whever Whanganui

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'd love to have miron here personally mainly for the lulz

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think this just confirms that Rickie has one more season as head coach....then he will be Nix football director/youth development. Great synergy as he will be heavily involved with the AW Brazil WC campaign. After that he will probably chasing the petro dollars with a cushy coaching job in the middle east
 
Anyone know when the advertised Asssistant coach appointment will be made?
 
 Its shaping up as a key appointment as that person will have a good shot of  moving up to the head coach job the following season.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Reckon it has been put on hold for a bit. Garth is on a boat and rob has family things to deal with
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Not sure having Ricki heading youth development is a good thing given his track record...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If Greenacre sorts his A coaching license in the off season I can see him having a role with the academy up n comers in future.

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Not sure having Ricki heading youth development is a good thing given his track record...



What do you mean? He can't bench them all.

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Junior82 wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Not sure having Ricki heading youth development is a good thing given his track record...



What do you mean? He can't bench them all.


Has done so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Not sure having Ricki heading youth development is a good thing given his track record...
 
You have a good point there.....when you think of it, Rickie has not been able to develop or retain one single youth player in the five seasons he has been coach. Obviously there have been lots of mitigating circumstances with no youth league squad to work with but you do get the feeling that Rickie likes a more mature squad. He is really big on team unity/bonding and you kind of get the feeling sometimes that the Nix is an "old boys club". It would be tough if you were an eighteen year old wizz kid in a Nix squad where the average age was over 30.
 
There are lots of teenagers doing great things in other A-League clubs. I really wonder how rickie would get on if he had to coach a team with mostly youngsters. I guess we will know when he coaches the Olympic team. Somehow I don't think he is the guy that will get the best out of youngsters like Barbarousses or Rojas. 
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ricki not Rickie
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zinidane wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Not sure having Ricki heading youth development is a good thing given his track record...
 
You have a good point there.....when you think of it, Rickie has not been able to develop or retain one single youth player in the five seasons he has been coach. Obviously there have been lots of mitigating circumstances with no youth league squad to work with but you do get the feeling that Rickie likes a more mature squad. He is really big on team unity/bonding and you kind of get the feeling sometimes that the Nix is an "old boys club". It would be tough if you were an eighteen year old wizz kid in a Nix squad where the average age was over 30.
 
There are lots of teenagers doing great things in other A-League clubs. I really wonder how rickie would get on if he had to coach a team with mostly youngsters. I guess we will know when he coaches the Olympic team. Somehow I don't think he is the guy that will get the best out of youngsters like Barbarousses or Rojas. 
 
Christ some of you lot are a bunch of naysaying old women.
 
I think he did alright with Rojas, not his fault the boy wanted a move. He's not had a youth team set up to work with like other A league teams.
 
It's foolish having a go based on the job he is doing now. If he heads Youth Development then that will be his job, he is not going to be working with 30 year olds then is he?
 
If a farm-hand is told to plant spuds he's not going to come along and stick turnips in the ground is he?
 
I'd be inclined to listen to your arguments based on knowing how successful his football clinics and academy have been or first hand experiences from kids he has coached; actual useful stuff rather than listen to you guys clutching your handbags and blathering on.
ForteanTimes2012-02-25 10:49:58

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ForteanTimes wrote:
zinidane wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Not sure having Ricki heading youth development is a good thing given his track record...
 
You have a good point there.....when you think of it, Rickie has not been able to develop or retain one single youth player in the five seasons he has been coach. Obviously there have been lots of mitigating circumstances with no youth league squad to work with but you do get the feeling that Rickie likes a more mature squad. He is really big on team unity/bonding and you kind of get the feeling sometimes that the Nix is an "old boys club". It would be tough if you were an eighteen year old wizz kid in a Nix squad where the average age was over 30.
 
There are lots of teenagers doing great things in other A-League clubs. I really wonder how rickie would get on if he had to coach a team with mostly youngsters. I guess we will know when he coaches the Olympic team. Somehow I don't think he is the guy that will get the best out of youngsters like Barbarousses or Rojas. 
 
Christ some of you lot are a bunch of naysaying old women.
 
I think he did alright with Rojas, not his fault the boy wanted a move. He's not had a youth team set up to work with like other A league teams.
 
It's foolish having a go based on the job he is doing now. If he heads Youth Development then that will be his job, he is not going to be working with 30 year olds then is he?
 
If a farm-hand is told to plant spuds he's not going to come along and stick turnips in the ground is he?
 
I'd be inclined to listen to your arguments based on knowing how successful his football clinics and academy have been or first hand experiences from kids he has coached; actual useful stuff rather than listen to you guys clutching your handbags and blathering on.
 
Fair enough comment.
 
We shall just have to wait and watch how the Olympic side perform. Must be off now...will grab my handback, hitch up my skirts....I've got some turnips to plant!!!!
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
zinidane wrote:
ForteanTimes wrote:
zinidane wrote:
Steve-O wrote:
Not sure having Ricki heading youth development is a good thing given his track record...
 
You have a good point there.....when you think of it, Rickie has not been able to develop or retain one single youth player in the five seasons he has been coach. Obviously there have been lots of mitigating circumstances with no youth league squad to work with but you do get the feeling that Rickie likes a more mature squad. He is really big on team unity/bonding and you kind of get the feeling sometimes that the Nix is an "old boys club". It would be tough if you were an eighteen year old wizz kid in a Nix squad where the average age was over 30.
 
There are lots of teenagers doing great things in other A-League clubs. I really wonder how rickie would get on if he had to coach a team with mostly youngsters. I guess we will know when he coaches the Olympic team. Somehow I don't think he is the guy that will get the best out of youngsters like Barbarousses or Rojas. 
 
Christ some of you lot are a bunch of naysaying old women.
 
I think he did alright with Rojas, not his fault the boy wanted a move. He's not had a youth team set up to work with like other A league teams.
 
It's foolish having a go based on the job he is doing now. If he heads Youth Development then that will be his job, he is not going to be working with 30 year olds then is he?
 
If a farm-hand is told to plant spuds he's not going to come along and stick turnips in the ground is he?
 
I'd be inclined to listen to your arguments based on knowing how successful his football clinics and academy have been or first hand experiences from kids he has coached; actual useful stuff rather than listen to you guys clutching your handbags and blathering on.
 
Fair enough comment.
 
We shall just have to wait and watch how the Olympic side perform. Must be off now...will grab my handback, hitch up my skirts....I've got some turnips to plant!!!!


Oh-OH

  Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Geez, don't mention that ultimate harbinger of a word... turnips

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Interesting stat last night with Ricki now 2nd on the list of the coaches with the most wins in the A League (supposedly 59) behind Merick. Can anybody confirm that?
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sounds about right.  Two longest serving coaches.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
http://www.ultimatealeague.com/records.php?type=mgr&show=msm

Seems so.
Of course the most successful manager percentage-wise is the beloved Kevin Muscat.
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
commentators said 49th?  Nix have won 47 overall seasons.  How many did he win when he coached the knights?

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
3, which was the same number of wins as the Knights got before he came in as caretaker manager at the end of Season 2.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
so 50 is the correct number.  Congrats Ricki.  
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about 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yup congrats to the second most sucessful coach in the A League, hopefully 51 this weekend
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/wellingtonphoenix/news-display/Gould%20Returns%20With%20High%20Hopes/47069

Gould said it took the switch to Perth for him to realise just how highly rated Herbert and the Phoenix are in Australia.

�The credibility Ricki has across the Tasman among A-League teams and coaches is amazing,� Gould said.

�I don�t think Ricki and the team are appreciated as much in New Zealand, apart from the fans in Wellington, as they are in Australia.

�Considering the turmoil going into the season the Phoenix team performed amazingly well in getting to the playoffs for the third successive season.

�Now that the club is getting the off-field stuff right it is an opportunity for Ricki to take it further.�

Gould said being away from the Phoenix, but involved in the same competition, had given him the opportunity to look at the club from a different perspective.

�An opposition coach looking at the Phoenix sees three or four players who can create a real threat going forward, and most teams would look at having Dura and Siggy as a centre-back pairing,� he said.

�It is also a big plus that the experienced players in the squad have signed new contracts. For the Australian boys in particular the easy option would have been to head home to Australia on the back of the reputations they have established at the Phoenix.

�That they didn�t take that option is down to their regard for the way the head coach operates, along with the fantastic spirit in the dressing room.�


Ricki may have his knockers but Gould surely wouldn't be coming back here if he didn't rate Ricki

(see Winston Reid thread)


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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I am not in the "Ricki is garbage" camp, nor am I in the "Ricki is great" camp.  I guess you could say I am in neither camp, and in both camps.  Or neither camp.
 
What I do want to say, though, is that you cannot use quotes by people who have signed for the Phoenix as anything to base your opinions on.  There are a number of reasons that Gould might have signed for the club, or that Durrante might have signed an extension, but common sense dictates that they always mention the coach and the players as one of the reasons.  No one will be honest and say "the coach isn't very good, and the players are pretty average, but the money here was better", or that it suits their lifestyle, or their kids have just started school and they don't want to move them, etc.  If you want an honest opinion of a manager or club, ask the players that have left the club - how high would Elrich rate Herbert compared to all the other managers he has worked under?
 
I am not using this as a stick to beat Ricki, but just throwing it out there.  Remember, when it comes to Herbert I am not a camp kind of guy.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
hmm i think the opposite. And here I was agreeing with you lately..

Founder

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Here's a great example to illustrate Frankie's point.  Everyone loved Straka at the Fury right?
 
 
"

Ham says that other factors besides the uncertainty surrounding the club had a major impact on the Fury�s performances. Chief among these was Coach Franz Straka. �The coach was very poor,� he says. This may come as a shock for some fans considering how popular Straka was at the Fury. �He had a great affinity with the supporters but I believe he lost the dressing room quite early in the season with his poor tactics, training sessions and treatment of players, especially the young ones.�

Ham says he is not one to criticise coaches just because he may disagree with them, but feels Straka had such a negative influence on the playing squad it was impossible for it not to impact on performances.

�He singled out players for his failings as a coach and his dictator mentality stopped other coaches and staff from doing their jobs. For instance, our pre-season was taken out of our strength coach�s hands � doing weird resistance circuits and swimming and other weird things,� adds Ham. �Our injuries were deemed not serious enough when the physios thought otherwise and sometimes we were punished for being injured.�

Teammate Adam Casey agrees with Ham�s assessment of Straka and says the public perception of the Czech coach was very different to the reality. �Franz was good for the fans but his strategies didn�t help us at all. We weren�t coached well and many of the decisions he made on tactics and training sessions were very weird.�

Normo's coming home

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Matt Ham decided to hang up his boots and pursue a new career after the demise of the Fury. The goalkeeper is pursuing a career in Sports Science and after much soul searching is now undertaking a Masters
 
Now looking to regain full fitness, after a short stint in the Illawarra Premier League, Casey says he�s aiming to get back into playing full-time

Founder

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Also only asking those who leave the club has obvious bias.

But I also agree with what you're saying about those who just signed for the club.

So really in conclusion, you can't really take quotes from players as any kind of complete truth about what a coach is like.Tegal2012-04-27 00:26:58

Allegedly

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
hmm i think the opposite. And here I was agreeing with you lately..[/QUOTE]
 
everyone knows that you are a fool, for both agreeing, and disagreeing with me.
 
[QUOTE=Tegal]Also only asking those who leave the club has obvious bias.

But I also agree with what you're saying about those who just signed for the club.

So really in conclusion, you can't really take quotes from players as any kind of complete truth about what a coach is like.
 
well tell those crackers to stop posting quotes from players like it is some kind of proof.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
George Kostanza wrote:
http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/wellingtonphoenix/news-display/Gould%20Returns%20With%20High%20Hopes/47069

Gould said it took the switch to Perth for him to realise just how highly rated Herbert and the Phoenix are in Australia.

�The credibility Ricki has across the Tasman among A-League teams and coaches is amazing,� Gould said.

�I
don�t think Ricki and the team are appreciated as much in New Zealand,
apart from the fans in Wellington, as they are in Australia.

�Considering
the turmoil going into the season the Phoenix team performed amazingly
well in getting to the playoffs for the third successive season.

�Now that the club is getting the off-field stuff right it is an opportunity for Ricki to take it further.�

Gould
said being away from the Phoenix, but involved in the same competition,
had given him the opportunity to look at the club from a different
perspective.

�An opposition coach looking at the Phoenix sees
three or four players who can create a real threat going forward, and
most teams would look at having Dura and Siggy as a centre-back
pairing,� he said.

�It is also a big plus that the experienced
players in the squad have signed new contracts. For the Australian boys
in particular the easy option would have been to head home to Australia
on the back of the reputations they have established at the Phoenix.

�That
they didn�t take that option is down to their regard for the way the
head coach operates, along with the fantastic spirit in the dressing
room.�

Ricki may have his knockers but Gould surely wouldn't be coming back here if he didn't rate Ricki

(see Winston Reid thread)





stop posting quotes from players like it is some kind of proof.

Allegedly

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
the quotes from Gould are fair, he left due to uncertainty at the club not Ricki, he came back and the first thing he mentions is how stoked he is to be back coaching with Ricki, also mentions the fact that the players had the option to leave when things were getting shaky but didn't, why? A they are loyal to their club and b the coach!

Queenslander 3x a year.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The Straka thing is a red herring. The point is that Straka was loved by the fans but had no confidence from the players? Ricki has mucho confidence from the players but the fans are bitterly divided over him. Almost the opposite situation.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
What I do want to say, though, is that you cannot use quotes by people who have signed for the Phoenix as anything to base your opinions on.[/QUOTE]
 
What a brilliant insight... so how about using non-quotes from unamed "very strong sources" to base your opinion on? How does that rate?
 
[QUOTE=Frankie Mac]well tell those crackers to stop posting quotes from players like it is some kind of proof.
 
Well tell JD to stop posting unverifiable hearsay to fan the flames of his "Ryan hates Ricki" theory (see Winston Reid thread).
 
terminator_x2012-04-27 11:39:33

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Why don't people make up their own minds on Ricki rather than relying on second or third hand information passed down from players. You get to see his tactics, his player selection, his successes and failures on an ongoing basis. You know what he has to work with and how his opposition are almost always better resourced.

Personally I think he is a little bit too conservative and I often disagree with selections, tactics and use of the bench. But I do think those who buy into what he wants to do seem to play above themselves and enjoy playing for him while his results have been pretty good (7 or maybe even 8 out of 10) given the lack of resources and other obstacles. I struggle to believe that there is currently a better person for the job, you could very easily do a lot worse.
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