Coaching Angst - ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I can't see your point.  With Ifill and Leo making runs, Lockhead and Manny getting forward and Brown (or Caceres) playing in the CAM possy then I don't see any change to the number of chances created.  Bertos - no change.  Ifill, tends to get wide and work back central in any case and can still do so from a nominally wider starting position.  This time tho', if Ifill gets a ball in we've got Chen and Greenacre lurking and not a hopeful Daniel on the far post.  When Daniel has been getting crosses in we've virtually never seen Ifill receiving inside the box to shoot or head home, so no loss there either and Chen there instead.

Edit to add - I'm not arguing this as an always better starting formation, sure there are positives from the current tactics, which are fairly free ranging in any case.  But I am arguing it's a change that could break down an opposition by giving them different headaches and combatting tall defenses. 
mjp22009-09-21 17:11:18

So, instead of sticking with the tactic that we KNOW creates chances yet still makes us defensively sound you want to change it around to one that MIGHT create more chances and MIGHT keep us defensively sound ?

SiNZ2009-09-21 17:30:10

No - I'm looking at ways we might FINISH chances.  No effing use knocking in balls all day and looking good but ending up with less strikes on target than an apparantly "dominated" opposition.  Surely you can't argue these one goal draws are demonstrating that it's "working".  The only games we have scored more than one goal are the loss vs the Jets and the Perth win. 

How is a formation going to change how we finish ?

The draws are demoralising but as stated a multitude of times here the problem isn't solved by a formation change.  We're creating chances with the formation and tactics we just need better finishing from those there or different finishers.

You put another man up front and you have to change the way the game moves, the players roles and style of play and the moment you do that you risk us being closer to last year where we create 2 or 3 chances a game instead of 12 or 13 and with the current finishing those 1-1 will become 1-0 losses.

Appreciate your thoughts.  But Duh how is a formation change going to change how we finish?  By putting a second striker into play.  One with some height and a strikers instincts, not these middies that we watch butcher chances each week.
I guess my thinking also hinges on the observation that Ifill spends more than half his time out at the wing or tracking back like a midfielder and we get players on top of each other and space getting crowded as a result.  So I am not sure that by playing Ifill nominally wider (for Daniel) and a striker forward with Greeny we necessarily loose too much in the creativity area.  You create more opportunity for Lockhead to overlap Ifill doing that also.
"we just need better finishing from those there or different finishers".  Well exactly, I'd agree.  I just don't see Brown, Ferrante nor Daniel ever getting better inside the box.  We'll get the odd goal from them but that's not going to be enough.  So you either sign a CAM who can do the job at the top of and into the box (you seem to think that's not Caceres and Diego so far has been a flop) or you start to think about something else with the current resources. 
Sure as heck I'd be real happy if next week Daniel slams one in from the far post and Ferrante smashes in a header or shot from the top to centre of the box, but I've not seen it as a feature in three seasons and I think Greenacre would be more in the game with a partnering target man.
Hey, I'm not dying in any ditch over this, but I think there is some reasoned case for an alternate structure.

Edit - to add that playing always to one structure is a pretty limited approach.  You should surely have some flexibility in the team to adopt a different formation and cause different problems for the oposition.  We are getting pretty predictable for defenses to handle.
mjp22009-09-21 19:06:41

Personally I think the solution is that our players stop finishing like my Capital 16 side and start finishing like professional footballers.

Anyway, I give up.

Yep, the solution is change for changes sake.  Forget that we're playing the best football we have played in three years and look like we could beat any team.  Let's pull it apart and start again.

Nah - don't go all sadsack on me.  I'm not suggesting we start with a second striker, but we should be able to move into a different formation with subs.  I guess I am pissed watching them go off the boil in the second half every week and absolutely nothing with any impact coming from the bench.
Thanks for your thoughts mate - I'm hearing ya.

Ricky needs to sign Max. Clinical in front of goal.

Disturbingly your goal was very much like both of his this season... and sort of both like Daniel's first chance...  still, think you're a better bet for the Phoenix.

I wouldn't dare compare Max's artistry with an easy tap-in...

I think yesterday Daniel demonstrated beautifully that the simple tap-in isn't always as easy as it might appear!
Jag2009-09-21 20:23:45

Re watched Daniels miss a few times. You have got to give their goalie some credit...he just got a hand to the cross which caused Daniel to miss time....real unlucky coz 9/10 it would have just rebounded off him into goal

I say sack Ricki and get Branko Culina. He's got the Jets a point more than us and apparently we can get him for $50 (or whatever it is).

Offer him $60 and throw in a couple of sheep or plastic tiki

Post of the year

what the f**k has players missing the target got to do with the coach or the formation?? if we'd hit some of the easier chances, we would've won 4-1.

We could play 6 up front - it doesn't f**king matter unless the ball gets kicked into the goal

IT'S THE PLAYERS NOT THE COACH ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!! [explode]
Cosimo2009-09-22 07:50:34

Sing when you're winning aye steve-o? That's the spirit mate
yellowfury2009-09-22 09:58:11

daniel needs to learn to use his right foot...may have been in a better position to recieve/react to the ball aas it came his way

http://www.youtube.com/user/dinxbeau#play/uploads/12/Tmxjll4CJKw  - 2 mins in.

Whenever I read comments by players and coach, and the inept reporting of fred woodcock in particular, nothing is mentioned about his predictable and questionable selections and the spineless defending from deep when we're ahead tactics by the coaching staff.  Why are mediocre players like ferrante and hearfield getting game time ahead of more exciting and impacting players like  rojas and costa?  Why is Greenacre expected to work miracles up front alone with largely pub team crosses to try and feed off? Why do we camp out in our own half for far too long, push up with the speed of  sloths on hash brownies, and then act shocked when we make a team like the Fury look slick in the second half to the point of sneaking a point against us?

Why is someone as hapless as Mulligan still in the squad (and the all whites) when we seem short on defensive cover.  The man was left floundering repeatedly against the world's best in South Africa.  And for Herbert to criticise the players missing chances when he's the man who continues to pick em, leaves me and others I speak with respecting him even less.  I may be part of the phoenix yellow army, but I don't agree with herbert leading it!  The few recent times they've shown improvement I think is despite not because of him, and I suspect, more to do with the new assistant coaches getting in his ear.  Why is he still in charge when other assistants have bitten the dust?  Is it, as one friend has suggested to me, his old Spain '82 friends in high places?  I hope he proves me and others wrong, but I'm not the only one thinking he'll only make the choices he needs to once the play offs are beyond us.  As he has done two seasons running.  And I fear he'll do the same for the all whites vs bahrain, when I can see us chasing an unassailable deficit back here in Wellington.

A slew of questions and only the phoenix decision makers can really address them?  Hopefully the quality elsewhere in the squad, and the obvious heart and fight of the players throughout the team will lift them out of the bottom two.

Agree that it is frustrating that Herbert has a frustrating habit of picking players who are not good enough ahead of others that seem more talented but with less experience. If he doesn't make the playoffs in the A-League or the World Cup he'll be out of at least one job...

What I find hilarious is that the Victor Meldrew brigade NEVER admit that a team plays well.

If the Phoenix have a good half the opposition is rubbish, and if the opposition play well for 45 minutes the Phoenix are sh*t.

I don't know if you are aware lads, but it is in fact possible to find some positives in a game of football, you'd be suprised how much more you'd enjoy it if you try it.

Thanks FM. I started doing a point by point reply but gave up cos i was getting frustrated

Steve-O  - do you ever criticise players, or just coaches?

He probably criticised Ricki when he use to play.

have you considered being a professional football coach?

He hasn't mentioned Russell the Kit Man yet...