Wellington Phoenix Men

Contracted Players - Return of the Long Pins

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about 12 years ago

Last year it was Brockie scoring for fun, this year it is waffles. Next season I predict 15 goals from Tyler Boyd. The boy is getting better and better and learning. He will come good and it will be his deserved turn.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 12 years ago
Fitzy wrote:
patrick478 wrote:

He's been playing here since 2008, so if he was eligible for NZ citizenship I assume he would have already applied for it, which doesn't seem to be the case. I have a feeling he may not have continuously lived in NZ since 2008 (i.e. returning home to live during at least one of the offseasons).

I was also under the impression that the continuous residence thing was what was stopping this from happening.

 

From June 2013:

However, Krishna's New Zealand residency application was granted earlier this month which means he is now unable to spend extended periods outside New Zealand. New New Zealand residents need to spend a minimum of 184 days in the country across the first two years if they wish to be granted permanent residence, a requirement that the 25-year-old would be unable to fulfill if he was signed by Derby.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10887895

Krishna needs 1 more year in NZ before he is a local player.

The five year citizenship time period only starts ticking once someone gets their first residence visa? It  does not include previous time spent in NZ on temporary visas. If citizenship is required to become a kiwi player, then he has some way to go, as has Ifill unless he got his residence very quickly

Auckland will rise once more

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about 12 years ago

Auckland Phoenix is correct. I too have been in NZ since 2008 however I did not become permanent resident until Jan 2011. The 5 years starts from that date, not from when I first arrived.

Ifill didn't arrive until about July 2009(?) so not sure when he'll have gained PR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 12 years ago
Steve-O wrote:

Auckland Phoenix is correct. I too have been in NZ since 2008 however I did not become permanent resident until Jan 2011. The 5 years starts from that date, not from when I first arrived.

Ifill didn't arrive until about July 2009(?) so not sure when he'll have gained PR.

Unless he came in on a residence visa....

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 12 years ago

Unlikely when signing a 2 year deal I would say.

Does anyone know if he even has PR?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 12 years ago

Someone needs to take Huysegyms to Leuven on featherston and begin the sweet talking

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about 12 years ago

Well the Phoenix have said they still want him. Sticking point sounds like it is length of contract and/or money. I'm not sure if his agent has been looking for other offers yet or not. All his agent has said is...

"Phoenix's offer of a one-year extension did not ''meet his expectations''.

''It would be a shame to see Stein go, because his performances and goalscoring prowess have helped lift the level of the competition this season,'' Jetvic said.

''He has 16 caps for his country and offers a degree of pedigree which has been there for all to see. But, in terms of negotiations, it's not looking too promising at the moment.''


Guess we will just have to wait and see.

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about 12 years ago

What I've noticed is that when one of these negotiation impasses reaches the media (especially about money), it's almost reached a point of no return. Especially when you've got owners who are not inclined to splash the cash.

I think the only way this ends with him staying is if Stein moves on his salary demands in exchange for the Nix moving to a 2 year contract.

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about 12 years ago
hlmphil wrote:

What I've noticed is that when one of these negotiation impasses reaches the media (especially about money), it's almost reached a point of no return. Especially when you've got owners who are not inclined to splash the cash.

I think the only way this ends with him staying is if Stein moves on his salary demands in exchange for the Nix moving to a 2 year contract.


Not always true,  whenever Jonah Lomus contract was due for renewal with the NZRFU stories always emerged of shift to League, Britain France etc, similarly with SBW. It is never really a good thing and you prefer to just read that a contract has been extended, but fairly common ploy on the part of agents.

I certainly hope he stays
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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History

Bad analogy. Jonah was irreplacable. 

Its a big wide world of football.....

That sounds harsh on Stein and I certainly hope he stays.

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about 12 years ago

Stein leaving would be a big loss. At 31, another  two years is not a big deal in terms of age. Stein is not a players who relies on speed to be effective. He is probably one of our most skillful players. Plus he can slot very well into the role that Carlos plays. Carlos seems to have attitude  problems.... he may not have long term future with the Nix. If Stein went as well we would have a huge hole in that creative role up front.


To me the statement by his agent is just to rack up a bit of pressure on the negotiation process. I am sure a deal could be done....Stein would go if it does not stack up but unsettling his young family who are well settled in Wgtn would be a factor. There is plenty of positive feedback about Stein on other forums.......seems just about everyone else in the A-league would want him signed for their club

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about 12 years ago
threatD wrote:

Bad analogy. Jonah was irreplacable. 

Its a big wide world of football.....

That sounds harsh on Stein and I certainly hope he stays.


Why is it a bad analogy? Jonah irreplacable? correct me if I am wrong but havent the All Blacks done ok with out him?

It is a common ploy in any negotiation, maybe not going to the press, but hell I have used it myself at work.
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about 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:
threatD wrote:

Bad analogy. Jonah was irreplacable. 

Its a big wide world of football.....

That sounds harsh on Stein and I certainly hope he stays.


Why is it a bad analogy? Jonah irreplacable? correct me if I am wrong but havent the All Blacks done ok with out him?


wow.
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about 12 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:
threatD wrote:

Bad analogy. Jonah was irreplacable. 

Its a big wide world of football.....

That sounds harsh on Stein and I certainly hope he stays.

Why is it a bad analogy? Jonah irreplacable? correct me if I am wrong but havent the All Blacks done ok with out him?

It is a common ploy in any negotiation, maybe not going to the press, but hell I have used it myself at work.

The main difference between Jonah/SBW & Stein is their marketing value (e.g. how many times has Stein turned up in a woman's day article?) But to be honest I was actually thinking more of an a-league context, which is quite different from other codes.
However yes, you're right, it sometimes works out. But usually putting the negotiations in the press is a last ditch ploy by one side when they're running out of answers, which 9/10 precedes the player leaving from what I've seen.
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about 12 years ago
paulm wrote:

So much of this stuff is puzzling, we just don't know what ernie's plans are for the squad for next year, makes it impossible to judge if these are good or bad decisions

But that's the same with most teams and coaches in pro football. You just have to have faith that the plan Ernie has in his head, is being catered to with these signings.

I suspect if he was really keen on Stein, that negotiation would have been done by now. I think that indicates to me that he would like a striker with a different talent/skill set than what Stein brings. I think he is after an Archie clone personally when he talks about fast pacey FBs

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 12 years ago
luneburg wrote:

Someone needs to take Huysegyms to Leuven on featherston and begin the sweet talking

Pointless. He does not drink.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History

I was talking with Ernie last night and he agrees with me.. Its pointless that we pay that amount of money for a player who cant head, has no right foot and is steering at the slippery slope of pace diminishing and injuries taking their TROLL.

"Who ate all the pies"

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about 12 years ago

pay what amount of money? for all his failings, ie no head and one footed he's been leading the golden boot race in the a-league for a while - only last week did he get passed - he's csoring consitently and setting goals up.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 12 years ago
Dino11 wrote:

I was talking with Ernie last night and he agrees with me.. Its pointless that we pay that amount of money for a player who cant head, has no right foot and is steering at the slippery slope of pace diminishing and injuries taking their toll. 

That is a ridiculously harsh assessment. He didn't fit with Ricki's style last year but he's been undeniably one of our best this season. Sure his game has a few gaps in it but as has been said before this is the A League after all. You can't expect a team of Beckenbauers and Cruyffs. Also I don't recall him having any serious injury concerns in 2 seasons. He might lack pace and that might not fit our gameplan but he's still our best striker and at least our second best attacking mid as well. Sure the club might not want to pay as much as he's asking or lock him into a 2year contract but that doesn't mean you can write him off as a geriatric injury prone donkey when he's been playing as well as he has been.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 12 years ago

Wouldn't pay a bucketload for him when he's getting on in years. He is replaceable. 

a.haak

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about 12 years ago

Conan I have edited it for you.

Though I do admit that he is a player that I do not rate as highly as others. He is a professional footballer who has played at a very high level but is unable to execute two fundamental basic requirements of his role. 

By the way Brockie scored under "Ricki's Style".. 


"Who ate all the pies"

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about 12 years ago
Dino11 wrote:

Conan I have edited it for you.

Though I do admit that he is a player that I do not rate as highly as others. He is a professional footballer who has played at a very high level but is unable to execute two fundamental basic requirements of his role. 

By the way Brockie scored under "Ricki's Style".. 


haha, all good

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 12 years ago
Dino11 wrote:

Conan I have edited it for you.

Though I do admit that he is a player that I do not rate as highly as others. He is a professional footballer who has played at a very high level but is unable to execute two fundamental basic requirements of his role. 

By the way Brockie scored under "Ricki's Style".. 


Brockie scored in spite of Ricki's Style
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about 12 years ago

Every time someone brings up stein being one-footed it cracks me up no end. 

This is the A-League guys, it's chock full of one-footed players. If his right was as good as his left he wouldn't be here.

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History

Its not so much the one-footed it is the inability to utilise his right foot when there is a clear goal scoring opportunty. In quite a few cases by using his predominate foot the opportunity has been reduced or is gone. 

I can remember bearing down on the right of the goal in the six yard and having to flick from outside his left boot though he could have nailed it with a right foot shot or side foot.


"Who ate all the pies"

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about 12 years ago
valeo wrote:

Wouldn't pay a bucketload for him when he's getting on in years. He is replaceable. 

Yes, he is replaceable, as are probably 90% of the squad. As I've written Brockie off as a lost cause, my worry is who will we replace our top scorer with!

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 12 years ago
threatD wrote:

Bad analogy. Jonah was irreplacable. 

Its a big wide world of football.....

That sounds harsh on Stein and I certainly hope he stays.

 
Jonah was made to look good by the players around him. His attacking game  was good and his defending was shit. Cullen and Umaga covered him every game for the Lions and the Hurricanes and for the ABs. His turning to run back and defend was like watching a bus turning around. Slow and  cumbersome.

Agents are the sort of scum that really need to be weeded out of the game. Far too often they try snd hold a gun to the head of the clubs with various threats and Insinuations.  Its a global problem. I think its time for players to man up and negotiate their own contracts. All this crap about wanting to concentrate soley on their football so they engage an agent to do the pays. If we all did that we'd not be employed.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History
Lonegunmen wrote:
threatD wrote:

Bad analogy. Jonah was irreplacable. 

Its a big wide world of football.....

That sounds harsh on Stein and I certainly hope he stays.

 

Jonah was made to look good by the players around him. His attacking game  was good and his defending was shit. Cullen and Umaga covered him every game for the Lions and the Hurricanes and for the ABs. His turning to run back and defend was like watching a bus turning around. Slow and  cumbersome.


Agents are the sort of scum that really need to be weeded out of the game. Far too often they try snd hold a gun to the head of the clubs with various threats and Insinuations.  Its a global problem. I think its time for players to man up and negotiate their own contracts. All this crap about wanting to concentrate soley on their football so they engage an agent to do the pays. If we all did that we'd not be employed.


Dude, that's completely ridiculous, if there were no agents how the hell would we ever get players from overseas to even think about coming to NZ?  


Secondly, if you were earning big bucks and you had left school at 16 and only ever played football all your life would you trust yourself to negotiate on your own behalf?

Normo's coming home

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about 12 years ago

I think we should sign a young NZ right back instead of keeping the Sherminator.

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History
Lonegunmen wrote:
threatD wrote:

Bad analogy. Jonah was irreplacable. 

Its a big wide world of football.....

That sounds harsh on Stein and I certainly hope he stays.

 

Jonah was made to look good by the players around him. His attacking game  was good and his defending was shit. Cullen and Umaga covered him every game for the Lions and the Hurricanes and for the ABs. His turning to run back and defend was like watching a bus turning around. Slow and  cumbersome.


Agents are the sort of scum that really need to be weeded out of the game. Far too often they try snd hold a gun to the head of the clubs with various threats and Insinuations.  Its a global problem. I think its time for players to man up and negotiate their own contracts. All this crap about wanting to concentrate soley on their football so they engage an agent to do the pays. If we all did that we'd not be employed.



Horrible folk agents but by god if I was a professional footballer I'd have the best and most devious money could buy.

The difference between us and a professional footballer is that we can be easily replaced.  A professional footballer particularly a good one is coveted and their individualized contracts reflect that. On the flip side just look at how many players don't make the grade and are dropped with no support by clubs and end up with all sorts of problems. Or those poor sods who have to sell off their medals to make ends meet cuse they've not manged to pick up another trade.

Also I don't know of many football players that could draw up a contract that covered everything, sell themselves and get sponsorship deals on their own - that's why agents are necessary.

edit: you got in there first JD.

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about 12 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:

I think we should sign a young NZ right back instead of keeping the Sherminator.

Timmins is in the process of getting his Aussie citizenship, so I can see it being a battle between Shermy and Timmins to be the back up left back for next season.
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about 12 years ago

When did agents really get involved in the game, late 70s? It survived near on 100 years without them.

Ps:  I may stand to be corrected on this point and acknowledge that in advance.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 12 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:

I think we should sign a young NZ right back instead of keeping the Sherminator.

Timmins is in the process of getting his Aussie citizenship, so I can see it being a battle between Shermy and Timmins to be the back up left back for next season.

But Timmins isn't a youth player is he? Who are our three for next year? Ridenton, Rufer and? Is Boyd still young enough?
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about 12 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:
Luis Garcia wrote:

I think we should sign a young NZ right back instead of keeping the Sherminator.

Timmins is in the process of getting his Aussie citizenship, so I can see it being a battle between Shermy and Timmins to be the back up left back for next season.


But Timmins isn't a youth player is he? Who are our three for next year? Ridenton, Rufer and? Is Boyd still young enough?

Ridenton 18, Rufer 17, Boyd 19.
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about 12 years ago
Lonegunmen wrote:

When did agents really get involved in the game, late 70s? It survived near on 100 years without them.

Ps:  I may stand to be corrected on this point and acknowledge that in advance.



Agreed that their power is excessive but do we really want to go back to the time when a football player had to hold down two jobs or their contract was negotiated with mum and dad?




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about 12 years ago

Football has changed a hell of a lot in that time LG, more than just the addition of agents. Agents are a necessity in this day and age for the modern professional athlete.


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 12 years ago

Agents are (sadly) vital.

The good ones are good. The bad ones are bad.

Just like any profession.

However they have very little regulatory oversight. Unlike me and JD who can be disbarred (and probably will be one day) there's no authority regulating agents.

The a league have done players a great service by having a standard form player agreement. Agents just need to find the deal and fill in the right form.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 12 years ago

Cheers for the fedback, an interesting debate. I agree that in the past, clubs more or less stood over players and they sought other jobs to help pay the bills, I just feel that Agents have taken it to the other extreme whereas a more centralised attitude would surely be a win win.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 12 years ago
ForteanTimes wrote:
their contract was negotiated with mum and dad?


Seems to have worked for Marco.

But agents are only middle-people. They're paid by the quality of deal. I don't really see what the problem with them is supposed to be. If the club's happy and the player's happy, then that's what they call a "Pareto optimum" in economics, surely?

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 12 years ago
Doloras wrote:
ForteanTimes wrote:
their contract was negotiated with mum and dad?


Seems to have worked for Marco.

But agents are only middle-people. They're paid by the quality of deal. I don't really see what the problem with them is supposed to be. If the club's happy and the player's happy, then that's what they call a "Pareto optimum" in economics, surely?


LG feels that players should represent themselves like people in other jobs do. Pre-the 90's a manager of a club would go round the house of a young talent and have a cup of tea with the family and make a deal. Obviously in those times many players got ripped off.

Re the 'pareto optimum" not sure people at QPR, Portsmouth or Leeds would see some of the contracts as being pareto optimum but then I only have a vague grasp of the concept!

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