Members Only Active Support Zones?

Well I think the Jet's are in a slightly different position as they did have one incident last year, so perhaps the FFA is forcing the hand with them more than us. They also have a GA area where they can move to. We don't. We're sitting down with the Phoenix after the Football United games to chat through the situation and we are chatting with other fan groups to see what their situations are.

good to hear. Not advocating an overreaction without listening to what is actually being proposed for us. Also good to  hear you're chatting to other fan groups, as I think in this instance it is important to back them up to some extent ( we  get on quite well with the squadron for example), as this is quite a big deal. 

Being able to move to a GA area is a brilliantly perfect thing for them to be able to do. Not sure what we could do, but let's cross that bridge if we even come to it. 

Even if our solution is acceptable, I still think using our pregame banner is a good idea to send a message out, something along the lines of "not criminals" would suffice, as I mentioned above. 

Only problem is that we don't want to look like we are supporting the RBB, since they are actually criminals ;)

May be you could put not members on the banner? Seems they only want to be able to identify trouble makers and idiots who want to keep theur id secret. Probably for no good reason. The clubs approach seems sensible and its not new the way they will implement it. If punters don't want to be in an active zone they should jog on

I think it is important amongst fan groups to display some sort of solidarity but I also think it is important to keep arseholes that like to cause trouble seperate and out of the game. I think some of it is former recial discord that helped break up the old NSL is rasing its ugly head again. The usual groups that are known within Melbourne and Sydney.

In this respect our own problem children have been an absolute minimum and the good news for us is we mainly police ourselves without the need for the club to intervene. 

Most of the Australian clubs are probably the same and their fans too. But then there are 3 clubs that may have problems. Ironically, the same 2 clubs the FFA have drooled and dribbled over since day 1 of the A League and 1 that is only newish.

One thing I am really proud of is how we make any visitng fans here quite welcome. I dont think they expect it and it comes over as a pleasant surprise.

Without trying to sounds like we are up ourselves, would we be the best behaved/most self aware supporters group in the league in terms of behaviour and how we portray ourselves to the 'outside' world.

That's because there's b*gger all of us.

Jog on Fortean.

My personal view is that this is a disgrace from the FFA. It's heavy handed, it's overbearing, and worst of all it's unjustified.

But unlike some people on this forum I'm trying to put a few things ahead of my personal views:

1. What's best for the Fever as a wider group, and 

2. What's actually practical.

In re 1, the best thing for us is that these stupid new rules don't apply to us. The best chance I have of making that happen is not to hold up a huge middle finger to the Phoenix the FFA. It's to engage them with dialogue.

That dialogue wouldn't be helped by nutjobs emailing in their masturbatory rantings and ravings. Which is why I asked Fortean to hold off his email-bomb campaign. It would have achieved nothing except running the risk of cutting us off from the club and closing the door on us getting a best-available outcome.

If you think that's me doing something outrageous and being dictatorial, then suck it. I'm trying to get the best outcome for everyone. Oh and I'm doing it for free. Help out or fuck off.

In re 2. I have major doubts about our ability to follow through on any kind of Squadron-style relocation. Believe me I'd love to do it. But I just don't think we could pull it off. Most people in the Fever zone aren't apathetic as to football politics. And in many ways I love them for that.

To close out, if I'm wildly off the mark in what I've said here and people think Fortean is one the money then I'm totally happy to step aside, hand over the keys to the kingdom and let Fortean take over. Just let me know.

And if you want to do something useful, then perhaps start crafting a statement of solidarity with the Squadron, that excludes the RBB and North Terrace. I think that would be a good thing for us to put out there. 

We have a unique relationship with our club, most are pretty much approachable. Staff and players etc. Both parties are actually working towards improving the situation for the Nix on and off the field. Sure we bitch about things like stadium food and beer choices but in the bigger pitcture we would all pull together for the preservation and betterment of the club. I think the word is symbiotic that I am looking for.

We can certainly let fan groups like CCM's Squadron know that we sympathise with their position and that we are fortunate with our own current relationship with our club.

I really dont wish to get involvded in a pissing contest with the FFA because of a monster they helped created and fostered. It is like the old NSL all over again. The FFA have created this monster and with their love fest with the RRB - one of the groups causing this whole issue, then the FFA need to sort it out somehow. 

Smithy, I see you trying to play the politician. Keep going. A cool head in an emotional situation.

This is exactly the sort of shit that gets people wound up. The FFA should be congratulated for creating it and letting it happen. Someone needs to be held accountable for it. But like our Wee Mac situation, it will drag on. The good supporters at most clubs will just carry on as per normal and rightly so. The looney few will also carry on and hopefully the police and officials will deal with them hard. Also, perhaps other club's fans within the A League will start policing themselves in a proper way, not the looney few way. There is no need for thugs and idiots in any football club. We can but try and keep their numbers to a minimum. 

I'd like to hear from the CCM owners about how they feel about this FFA idea and also from the various other clubs owners too.

First of all he should apologise for being a fan.

Smithy winner of  the non hysterical and adult post of the day...

Why would an organization such as the Phoenix cut off it's fans for emailing genuine expressions of concern about an action that may have a big impact on a supporters experience for years to come?

How is emailing the club "A huge middle finger?"  It's called customer feedback

This 'don't make the club angry as they'll cut us off" is frankly laughable. The last time I looked the club was run by adults who are hardly going to throw their toys out the pram because of a few emails highlighting an action implemented by another organization.

Honestly I think you need to stop looking at the club as the kid who has the only ball at playtime and see it for what it is. A company that is trying to sell a product and is trying to improve it's services/products. To do this they have to listen to their customers.

It's like me going into New World and saying "I hate the fact that The Ministry of Vegetables has made you put all the vegetables at the other end the supermarket where it's harder to get to' and New World going 'Right Fuck you and you masturbatory rantings and ravings, you pissed me off I'm shutting up the shop so nahnahnah!" - I mean come on!

Have any of us blamed the Nix in this? No.

2ndBest's response was fine by me, dialogue with the club and dialogue with other fans groups - fantastic, that was how to respond to concerns raised on this thread.

Also you might want to reflect on what you write before hitting the send button. I know I had to several times this morning.

Shots fired.

The FFA created this monster, especially by spending the last 7 years sucking up to the three main protagonists. They need to fix this asap and not by the method tthat they announced.

I support telling the club to get farked if they try to restrict access to the Zone

There already is - red badge checks your seat number when you enter the FZ from the concourse.

(but can't do anything when you move across from another aisle)

nah that's pretty sporadic. They don't bother when it's not very full - if they did there would be even less there 

Well, can we tell them to get farked anyway?

The club is trying to not have to restrict access to the Zone at all. FFA is the one trying to make them restrict access. I support telling FFA to get fucked. 

Telling the Phoenix to get fucked would be like telling the fourth official to get fucked when he holds up your number telling you that you're being subbed off, when it's actually your manager who's made the decision.

You're refereed Feverish then?

Not quite. The fourth official couldn't really tell the manager to get farked (Mohammed would probably give it a crack)

Hmm, way to attempt to take back the middle ground.

IIRC you called for a "complete united fan protest" and on all fans to email the club reception to express their anger (Junior82 called on me to draft an angry email template) and let them know we protested.

But now, miraculously, you're all for "dialogue with the club and dialogue with other fan groups".

I'm glad 2ndBest has won you over to something sensible.

And as for seeing the club as a kid in the playground, well let's just say I have a much longer history dealing with the club than pretty much anyone on this forum. And I know how easily upset they can be. Granted they are much better now than they were, but at one stage their response to some constructive criticism from us was to take steps to establish an official fanclub in competition to Fever. They had to be talked down from that ledge.

What you originally called for: protests and email bombs. Was neither constructive nor sensible. 

I'll also point out that it's a little ironic that you were lambasting me for suggesting what you are now calling fantastic.

So....We're all friends again....?

Any update on how discussions with club and other supporter groups are going guys?

2B said they were going to do it after the football united tour. Which is probably fair enough, though at the same time leaves it a bit late. 

What I called for is supporters to email the club and the the FFA, in this day and age that appears to be the easiest way to communicate with organizations.

I did not in any of my posts call for an 'Email bomb" which is your term and not mine.

My understanding of an email bomb is it's something that's abusive - please direct me to my post where I've asked for that? You can't? That's right it's because I never suggested it.

'United Fan protest" - Why not? Maybe it could take the form of supporters from various A league clubs emailing the FFA and their own clubs, banners? I'd be up for that too.

I might add that until Tegal restarted this thread we had heard nothing from you about how you where addressing the issue for over a month - great communication. 

Why would I not support opening dialogue with other fans, (united fans protest maybe?) or the club? Where did I say I would not support that?

I know you don't like people disagreeing with you, that much is obvious with the tone and style of your replies. I really hope when you do communicate with the club it's not in the style of the teenager you adopt on here.

I think it is important that most of the other clubs fans know that we morally supoport them. As we have no issues here, we dont need to directly address it at this stage. The Fever Zone, depending on which of the fun police are standing there at the time, can be controlled except when one slips in along the front row. Perhaps how we do it is more user friendly than our Australian counterparts?

Smithy, Fortean, I like both you guys in a hetro way. Keep the discussion going but don't take it too personal. Smithy, I appreciate the efforts made on our behalf, especially the Bus trip/s and Fortean, you always make me think about things when you comment. I value both your guys inputs.

Fortean. Are you keen to come and join in the conversation with the club? 

Seriously.

I'd just point out FT, that we do work for the fever in our own time. Anytime we've asked for extra hands it's generally been met with tumbleweed. Maybe communication is not great, but we do have other things in our lives. So perhaps spare us some leeway every now and again.

The phoenix initially said that the implications of this change is low/minimal, which is what I posted on page two. Is there anything issues you have with that initial advice?

If other groups are anything like the Fever, then they are probably a shambles and still working through any issues with the club. Clearly those conversations are more advanced for the squadron. But for all other groups, they are still talking to the clubs and the clubs (in most cases) are trying to find ways to bend the rules and find work arounds. There is a good possibility that this whole thing is a publicity stunt, and for most groups it will mean jack all.  Until those conversation are more advanced then it is hard to organise/justify a united approach. Especialyl given the media over there will see it as whinging from criminals etc etc.

Having thought about this, I think there are a few points to consider here:

1.  The club aren't at fault so to the extent possible this needs to be focussed on the FFA.  However, I don't understand why the club can't come out and say our fans aren't an issue so we're not going to enforce this.  If they don't believe that the Fever are a problem, why can't they be a bit brave on this and stand up for the fans - or at least say we'll do this because we have to, not because we think it needs to be done?

2. We need to be careful about agreeing with this because this is a step towards the club's influencing the zone.  To my mind the club really doesn't have a role in deciding what goes on in the zone.  They can choose to be supportive or not, but at the end of the day the fans of the club are independent and we need to be protective of that.  If the club does think it can control who sits where, or how people choose to watch the game or support the team, that is potentially a big issue and normalising giving your details when buying a ticket is a step towards that, which is why it is important as a point of principle.

3.  Privacy, what are they going to do with your details?  Are they going to try and flog you stuff?  What about ticketek?

4.  Whatever happens, I think we do need some kind of position which says this kind of interference is unnecessary to show we're on the same side as the fans in Aussie who are actually affected by this.  What this whole thing does mean is football fans once again are being painted as potential criminals, and that's really not fair when you consider how little trouble there has been.

5.  No-one at the Fever speaks for all Phoenix fans, so everyone is entitled to have their own views and express them how they choose.  

Club has already gone back to the FFA to say it is bullshit and not needed here.

So much this.

Dale, just to emphasise my point below I think you just need to be a little bit careful with this.  It may be low/minimal today, but this is the thin end of the wedge (or could be)

I wasn't meaning I agree with the measure, but point noted.

I've said in the past on these forums how much I support and appreciate the work the YF exec do and as a quite active Cycling Advocate I understand probably more than most the amount of unpaid work that goes into this sort of activity and the STRESS!!

I've set up or helped set up local community cycling events and given a lot of my time with sorting peoples bike issues out with a number workplaces. I've done/do cycle skills training and have acted as a "bike buddy" and a "bike Guru" (one of my fav titles lulz). A lot of this preparation was in my own time and was funded out of my own pocket. Christ I missed the Allwhites vs Bahrain match as I had to attend a travel/cycling conference in New Plymouth - so I know sacrifice.

I'm cool with what you do, I'm just not cool with being jumped on in this thread because I and some others don't agree with Smithy or at the very least see things slightly differently than him. 

As you guys will understand, presently I just don't have the necessary energy to embark on more volunteer work as the cycle advocacy side of things have taken a hit recently and I'm keen to rekindle that.

That's one of the reasons I was so in favor of Patrick stepping up and I'm pleased he is doing well.

Thanks for the offer though and carry on doing a great job.

ah well at least you and Smithy have in common the fact you are both cyclist wankers

love a motorist x

This page has some really interesting points. Id love to help the YF out but only on the condition that the Phoenix make Maidstone Park their permanent training ground... well, whilst I am living in Upper Hutt anyway.

And not that I'd be much help. Although, I did do the HN masks, not that he has ever forgiven me......

On the whole asking for help and only hearing crickets thing:

I've always wanted to give you guys a hand whenever possible, but simply haven't had the time lately. That should change from now on so feel free to give me a buzz if there is anything you think I can help out with.

But more importantly, I'm sure there are others in the same boat, wanting to help out but not sure exactly how they can.  Its all well and good saying no one wants to help, but I also think it'd help if you were a bit more specific about where you need help. I'm sure FT (as a loose example) thought he was being helpful with his suggestions earlier, but then it turned out he was stepping on toes and smithy went full offensive on it. Maybe a seperate volunteer thread would help, where people post that they'd be willing to help, and you post what specifically you need help with. 

Ideally people would just come to you with an idea and you say "yeah great go forth and do it" but it's never as simple as that from our POV. I'd love to help, but I have no idea how I could. 

That AGM, while the presentation was great and fun, was a pretty good example of what I'm talking about. You guys were hoping people would come to you and say they'll help with something or will do something, but from what you've said since nobody did. Whereas I know I was going into it thinking "great, if anything comes up that I can help with then ill volunteer" - but it never did, so I didn't. 

That came out very long , but I hope you grasp what I mean.

Points noted.

Where getting off topic. Back to get angry at the FFA.

Hang 'em, hang 'em all. Seriously, you have to wonder whom comes up with these ideas. Have this solution been tried anywhere else in the world? Or is it that we are just fortunate with our New Zealand outlook, different and more tolerant than most others?