Hail ___ the Chief - Giancarlo Italiano

Footballtragic

Nelfoos

Footballtragic

Nelfoos

Footballtragic

Nelfoos

I think there's a Ruferesque DM in LKH, given some time there. Similar calmness on the ball, even when the situation calls for some urgency, happy to take it into tight areas and back himself to get out, which backfires a lot less for Rufes than it used to. 

Neither are as good as their stature would suggest aerially, but Rufer obviously puts himself about a lot better in general play and definitely  something Kelly-Heald has to add. 

I'm not sure LKH would be better long term in midfield than as a left sided CB, but I can see the potential in there, and I can see minutes in the midfield making him better on the ball even if he does settle in at CB.

So in your view that here and now he is a better midfielder than Conchie, Nagasawa and Retre as that would have to be the only criteria for playing him there! We simply do not have the luxury to play kids out of position to make them more comfortable in their best positions...we have seen far too much this season of players being played all over the place without ever nailing a position! 

I said absolute nothing about the merits of playing LKH there vs any other midfielder available, and the fact that you missed that entirely in order to attack the comment makes me think the rest of your comments are probably based a lot more in emotion than in reason as well.

Giving him minutes in midfield has to be at the expense of existing midfielders i.e. Nagasawa, Retre or Conchie. I stand by my comment that we do not have the luxury to experiment or develop players in different positions. What is unreasonable about that?

I didn't say it was unreasonable, and I didn't advocate for giving LKH minutes there. I simply said that if he plays there he could develop into a good one.

Read the comment before replying next time champ.

So you are not advocating that he gets minutes in the midfield? Even though "you can see minutes in the midfield making him better on the ball even if he does settle in at CB." So here and now do you agree with Chief playing him in the midfield? 

I've simply commented on how the player might develop mate, if you're still having to clarify whether I'm advocating for him in midfield then I can only refer you to my previous comments.

Experimenting with the best position for young players should be done in the reserves.

Piper as a progressive RCB seems to work. 

LKH and Sheridan are a bit more confusing. We’ve seen Hughes make forward runs, when Sheridan was making those from RB last season. 

Sheridan seems to put in a lot of defensive effort, and played a brilliant attacking ball in the game we had Nagasawa and Kosta up front. He’s played CB, midfield and RB and is now I’d say unfortunately a jack of all trades, but a master of none. 

Can LKH not defend enough to be a LB or LWB? That’s where he started. With these guys, you don’t know. Maybe it’ll click in a different position.

With Rufer when did he decide he was a defensively minded midfielder? After he’d been released once and slandered all over the place, yeh? 

To get back on track and away from LKH best position.
Here is opinion from over the ditch.

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The more I think about it, the more I believe that our playing style sets us up to lose.

We play with 5 at the back most matches, we sit back and allow the opposition to have possession and control the match in our half. This invites constant pressure as the 'default' state of almost every match we play (regardless of the opposition).

We then try and hit the opposition on counter, which can work, but it's an extremely negative and defensive and passive style of football. 

We start on the back foot all the time, and don't go out with a winners mentality. I think a lot of our luck would change if we set up with a more positive/attacking style of football, showed intent, and went out with a winner's mindset. I believe we have enough good players to be in a better position in the league, if we just changed our style of football.

The stats don't lie - we conceed a huge amount of shots against most matches, conceed possession, have much fewer passes, lower xG, etc. 

We have had a few matches towards the latter half of this season where we actually have gone out with intent, pressed the opposition, played 4 (rather than 5) at the back, and yes it's not pretty at times, but it felt like the players had more confidence, we created more chances, and we were in the match.

Sitting back passively and defending all day and hoping to score on the counter is an ugly style of football, and rarely used in the modern game. Where it tends to be used is with teams that are much weaker and trying to hang out for a draw against a top side (i.e., San Marino playing Spain, random example).

I don't see our style of football changing any time soon, which is why I'm not particularly optimistic, even if we recruit well in the off season.

I feel Chiefy would rather concede a lot of low quality shots rather than a few high quality shots. He also likes to counter attack with and without the ball - without the ball counter quickly from a turnover/winning possession and with the ball playing out from the back or dropping deep with the ball to create more vertical space. It has been successful in recent years with certain managers looking to create these "artificial transitions" - though its maybe cyclical at times as success of one system creates a need to counter that system of play and knowledge spreads quickly now days so I'm sure a lot of clubs in the ALM will learn from overseas how to counter that system (maybe those with connections to overseas clubs are able to get schooled up quickly on countering this system of play). 

From last season to this season I could see Chiefy's thinking, he still wanted to play out and have that vertical space but concerned about teams not pressing high and playing in a mid to low block against us looked to get players to play in tight spaces to create opportunities - just that our ability to play out this season is so much worse because our spare man at the back (the keeper) has not been good enough.

The back 5 can make pressing high a challenge, to press high effectively you basically have to go man-to-man and hope you can stop your opponent (by hook or crook if necessarily and given AL refs being soft you can get away with this with minimal penalty) so might need one of the CBs to press into midfield and one of your midfielders to step up into attack. 

Ninja

The more I think about it, the more I believe that our playing style sets us up to lose.

We play with 5 at the back most matches, we sit back and allow the opposition to have possession and control the match in our half. This invites constant pressure as the 'default' state of almost every match we play (regardless of the opposition).

We then try and hit the opposition on counter, which can work, but it's an extremely negative and defensive and passive style of football. 

We start on the back foot all the time, and don't go out with a winners mentality. I think a lot of our luck would change if we set up with a more positive/attacking style of football, showed intent, and went out with a winner's mindset. I believe we have enough good players to be in a better position in the league, if we just changed our style of football.

The stats don't lie - we conceed a huge amount of shots against most matches, conceed possession, have much fewer passes, lower xG, etc. 

We have had a few matches towards the latter half of this season where we actually have gone out with intent, pressed the opposition, played 4 (rather than 5) at the back, and yes it's not pretty at times, but it felt like the players had more confidence, we created more chances, and we were in the match.

Sitting back passively and defending all day and hoping to score on the counter is an ugly style of football, and rarely used in the modern game. Where it tends to be used is with teams that are much weaker and trying to hang out for a draw against a top side (i.e., San Marino playing Spain, random example).

I don't see our style of football changing any time soon, which is why I'm not particularly optimistic, even if we recruit well in the off season.

Yeah exactly we just don't have the right players to continue what we did last season. With having Surman and Paulsen we wouldn't concede early goals like we have this season putting us on the backfoot straight away and not forcing teams to overcommit and then hit them on the counter. We also don't have players like Old and Kraev that can dribble the ball up the field to hit teams on the counter.

It'd be interesting to compare this season and last season how many goals we've conceded in the first 20 minutes of games because it feels like we've conceded a goal in the first 20 in every second game this season.

As I mentioned earlier - hard to play counter attack as a team when you make the least number of tackles and intercepts.

Nothing wrong with sitting back, but there still has to be an intent to engage and play when the opportunity arises. That has not been the case this year.

Too passive, too negative.

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

MetalLegNZ

As I mentioned earlier - hard to play counter attack as a team when you make the least number of tackles and intercepts.

Nothing wrong with sitting back, but there still has to be an intent to engage and play when the opportunity arises. That has not been the case this year.

Too passive, too negative.

you got those intercept stats wrong from the roar game

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

martinb

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

martinb

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

Piper doesnt have to be played defensively though.

theprof

martinb

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

martinb

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

Piper doesnt have to be played defensively though.

Where to play Piper? This debate could last the whole off season. And probably next season... he probably wants to play everywhere. Chiefy may not like that so much

Can’t play any further forward if he can’t pass….which is why we see him at RCB.

Piper shouldn't be starting at all, ideally. He certainly wouldnt have started in Chiefy season 1

imanixsupporter

Piper shouldn't be starting at all, ideally. He certainly wouldnt have started in Chiefy season 1

Ideally for who,really given what he has shown lately think there arnt many of you sticking with that opinion any longer.

imanixsupporter

Piper shouldn't be starting at all, ideally. He certainly wouldnt have started in Chiefy season 1

Well we had Surman, Pennington, Old, Kraev and Zawada in Chief’s first season, who have we got now?

martinb

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

Was just a joke

imanixsupporter

Piper shouldn't be starting at all, ideally. He certainly wouldnt have started in Chiefy season 1

nah, shush. Piper's gonna be nuts next season

yeah, i meant ideally we would have a decent squad in which a player as limited as Piper would not be expected to start

Friar Tuck

imanixsupporter

Piper shouldn't be starting at all, ideally. He certainly wouldnt have started in Chiefy season 1

Well we had Surman, Pennington, Old, Kraev and Zawada in Chief’s first season, who have we got now?

ballane

imanixsupporter

Piper shouldn't be starting at all, ideally. He certainly wouldnt have started in Chiefy season 1

Ideally for who,really given what he has shown lately think there arnt many of you sticking with that opinion any longer.

I’m still not convinced about him. I think our standards are to low. He is not ticking my boxes.

With Piper the questions is, do his limitations negate his positives.

At this stage I would say the positives just have it. If he can work on hos touch a little and his passing to limit the errors from these two areas a little more I think he would be a useful player in the 11.

His presence physically on set peices whether defensively or on attack is arguably right up there in the league (as shown by his goals). If we play a bit more positively next year, and win a few more free kicks up the field and corners, he will provide a great target.

Really dont get peoples negativity about him here is a guy who was signed late into a professional environment for the first time.
That he got as much game time as has is not what was expected when signed i would think
Yep he is rough around the edges but he makes up for that in spades with his energy and enthusiasm and never back down attitude. Something some of our more seasoned players could do with having some of.
Hopefully with a full pre season some of those rough edges can be worked on he has certainly showed he deserves his chance. 

Isnt that what youve been playing   ?    , Auckland should be knocking Kostas door down ... 

Ninja

anaveragestem

Ninja

martinb

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

Was just a joke

Martin doesn't understand those. Don't worry, I think mostly everyone else got it

To be honest, why stop at a back 6, we could go up to a back 9 (9 defenders, 1 goalkeeper, and Kotsa standing on the halfway line for defensive punts up field).

Elite, final boss, counter-attacking football.

FU BLU

Isnt that what youve been playing   ?    , Auckland should be knocking Kostas door down ... 

Ninja

anaveragestem

Ninja

martinb

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

Was just a joke

Martin doesn't understand those. Don't worry, I think mostly everyone else got it

To be honest, why stop at a back 6, we could go up to a back 9 (9 defenders, 1 goalkeeper, and Kotsa standing on the halfway line for defensive punts up field).

Elite, final boss, counter-attacking football.

Pretty much, yes.

Corbain Piper - Ziggy ver 2. Rough around the edges but gives everything the whole game. He solid and unsettles the opposition. Potential to be a real Legend.

Ninja

martinb

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

Was just a joke

Phew! After the mood of late I heard it with quite a bitter snarl 😄

anaveragestem

martinb

anaveragestem

Ninja

martinb

Ninja

martinb

If we have Piper we have to at least set up with a back 5. 

Why don't we try a back 6

I think you’re missing my point. If we want Piper and Payne’s fit, he’s not trusted in a back 4 yet. 

Was just a joke

Martin doesn't understand those. Don't worry, I think mostly everyone else got it

Hey fudge off and support AFC where you can be a cod. Personal attack much? 

No one is grumpy in here man... Just try take this a bit less serious is what I would say 🤣

Okay, likewise keep your inane personal comments to yourself. Banterville of that kind is waaay north.

Couple of people  need to chill in here. Less personal attacks please or we get banny

✌️😇

A low block effectively ends up 9 at the back anyway…
But Piper and Ishige at least and sometimes others start in one place and end up in two or 3 different positions depending on what’s happening, so we’re not exactly playing the listed formation, unless we’re only defending. 

I think they should have made beating Brisbane and perth as a very reasonable threshold to trigger another year. I hope they sack him real early next year if we are getting served up the same shark. Going to suck if we get to December and the season is over when they make the change, two wasted years will be a tough pill to swallow.

I am so angry we kept him on. 2 losses against the bottom teams... 1 win at home all season.

And he still blames a poor pre season for how we are playing now. Fudge me, the guy doesn't have a clue.

MetalLegNZ

I am so angry we kept him on. 2 losses against the bottom teams... 1 win at home all season.

And he still blames a poor pre season for how we are playing now. Fudge me, the guy doesn't have a clue.

Part of me hopes he walks away in all honesty and we get to start again. He didn’t look like he wanted to be there today, nor did he know what to do to change it. 

Nommag

I think they should have made beating Brisbane and perth as a very reasonable threshold to trigger another year. I hope they sack him real early next year if we are getting served up the same shark. Going to suck if we get to December and the season is over when they make the change, two wasted years will be a tough pill to swallow.

Yea, I'd give him 10 games max into the season. If we're not within finals spots by then or copped another derby defeat I hope the club swings the axe asap

Sickening knowing the club had the chance to let him go and passed it up.

Are we one of the only professional clubs in the world to never sack a manager? 

Don't think Auckland have sacked a manager yet

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360668338/wellington-phoenix-beaten-leagues-worst-team-embarrassing-end-season
Listened to this and I wonder what the fudge Italiano sees, he claims we've played just a little under most oppositions this season - really? We've been awful. He's happy that we dont have the 2nd place season to look back on - lowered expectations. Full of excuses. Worst for me is that he doesnt see himself as the key motivator for the team! The players are pros and they should be motivating themselves - keeping the morale and motivation and tactics are his function. 
Add to that - we are a salary capped league blah blah blah the league isnt dominated by the big spenders - but this isnt the case if AFC CEO is to be believed.

theprof

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360668338/wellington-phoenix-beaten-leagues-worst-team-embarrassing-end-season
Listened to this and I wonder what the fudge Italiano sees, he claims we've played just a little under most oppositions this season - really? We've been awful. He's happy that we dont have the 2nd place season to look back on - lowered expectations. Full of excuses. Worst for me is that he doesnt see himself as the key motivator for the team! The players are pros and they should be motivating themselves - keeping the morale and motivation and tactics are his function. 
Add to that - we are a salary capped league blah blah blah the league isnt dominated by the big spenders - but this isnt the case if AFC CEO is to be believed.

Sydney, WSW, Victory & AFC all have been accused of spending moreover the years. Even Perth when they were paying the Daughter for a job that didn't exist for Keogh.