I forgot to add that they are entitled to mold the club in the image they want because they pay the bills, but there is a smart way to do it and a dumb way to do it. I don't think they are doing it the smart way right now.
Grumpy old bastard alert
No doubt Welnix are guilty of some horrible PR this week, but all this talk of people not going to games and not renewing season tickets is suicidal. Honestly, are we trying to fast-track the demise of our club? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
People round here need to start getting a whole lot more positive and constructive. Because if YF abandon ship then this ship is gonna sink. Fact.
And don't worry, I still have a few choice words for Welnix, but there's no way I'm going to do something as stupid and self-destructive as threaten to not buy my season ticket.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but, I think you are getting confused with who is cutting their nose off.
If I didn't pay, up front, for three season tickets each year & three Club Memberships, I could go to EVERY game & pay LESS money. The club need season ticket holders to pay in advance, but we do not get any thanks in return, all we get is Welnix, threatening to take games away. Our only response is to tell Welnix that if they take games away, we won't be buying Season Tickets next season & will not be going to as many games. For them to say they are taking games away from Wellington, shows they do not know how to market the games properly. In saying this, I presume they have done research & evaluated how many people COULD be going each week, not how many they want there each week. I know people that go to 4-5 games a year, but only when they get free tickets, I've even heard people get pissed off when they missed out on free tickets, then refused to pay for a ticket. Stop handing out so many free tickets.
I am VERY disappointed in the comments from Welnix this week, owning a sports franchise is not like owning any other business, chances are you will not make money from it, they bought it knowing it was losing $2M a year, what the fudge do they expect.
Passionate Football people, Rich, Passionate Football people should own football clubs, as sooner or later it will cost them a fortune.
We're the WELLINGTON Phoenix
And this is our Home
I can understand where Welnix is coming from, the club needs to be viable. I am thankful for them saving the club when it looked like going belly up. But the talk of more 'away' games feels like us loyal fans are being punished for the casual fans not turning up.
If moving games around gets more punters in the gates, why doesn't the Hurricanes do it any more? They used to take quite a number of games around, but its reduced to 1-2 games a season now.
No doubt Welnix are guilty of some horrible PR this week, but all this talk of people not going to games and not renewing season tickets is suicidal. Honestly, are we trying to fast-track the demise of our club? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
People round here need to start getting a whole lot more positive and constructive. Because if YF abandon ship then this ship is gonna sink. Fact.
And don't worry, I still have a few choice words for Welnix, but there's no way I'm going to do something as stupid and self-destructive as threaten to not buy my season ticket.
I know people that go to 4-5 games a year, but only when they get free tickets, I've even heard people get pissed off when they missed out on free tickets, then refused to pay for a ticket. Stop handing out so many free tickets.
Only good thing is i have the option to go down this route next season and will probably take it up if we become the travelling circus.Not as if you get buggar all for being a foundation member.
JV and Kiwi Hatter - thanks for your responses. I agree with virtually everything you say and don't worry, I fully understand and appreciate the investment YF has made in the Nix so far. I also understand how that can make it very difficult to swallow some of the BS coming from Welnix recently. But isn't that the point? We've all made a massive investment of money, time and passion into this already (some way more than others). Why the hell would we want to throw that away?
This isn't the time to disengage, this is the time to be more engaged than ever. Threatening to not attend games or not buy season tickets is suicide. Best case, it will result in more games being taken away. Worst case, we're done. We can all meet up in Four Kings and watch the Auckland Phoenix play in the A-League while we congratulate ourselves on our principled stance.
The very best place to make ourselves heard is inside the stadium. Welnix might not read this forum but they can't ignore us in there. Loud and proud in front of the TV cameras. Better than sulking at home in front of the telly like a bunch of petulant children.
We've all made a massive investment of money, time and passion into this already (some way more than others). Why the hell would we want to throw that away?
A very good post T_X. Over the past few days I've been vacillating between your position and KH, Ballane et al.
I'm starting to come around back to your post's position, but the fact that some of our fans have invested time, money and passion into the club is exactly why people are prepared to throw it away. If we do not have any influence of ability to sway the owners decision to make it something other than the Wellington Phoenix then I can see how some would throw it away.
I think I would buy a season ticket next year if we lost another home game, but what about the year after? Death by a thousand cuts is not pleasant.
Also I would never watch the Auckland Phoenix.
Heck I might even start attending TeeDubs games regularly and buy a few needles and wool.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
If we do not have any influence of ability to sway the owners decision to make it something other than the Wellington Phoenix then I can see how some would throw it away.
But we DO have that ability J82. Christ, this has only seriously blown up over the last couple of weeks and we haven't even got started yet.
For instance, at the moment there 6 comments against Gareth's post on his own blog about this. Gareth might not read the YF forum but he sure as hell reads his own blog. If we care at all about this by the same time next week I expect to see 100 well-reasoned, passionate comments putting him straight.
For instance, I know a family of four who don't usually go to games but who are umming and ahhing about coming along on the 22nd. I'll make it my personal mission this week to make sure they are there. Even if I have to buy their tickets for them and drive them to the game myself they will be there.
And that's just off the top of my head. There's so much more we can do but we all have to get past this ridiculous, self-indulgent sulking fast.
A lot has been said already about how Welnix don't really understand football. Fair comment, but when I read whinging like "I don't feel like chanting because I feel alienated by the club" I really wonder how much the fans themselves really understand football.
Don't stop believin' fellas.
With all that’s been said there seems to me only one real role for these owners to play (haha) : interim ownership.
Retaining players, coaches, name, logo, management, location. Keep it functioning, some common sense decisions (reserve team, extra staff where needed,…)
Allowing that if interest did arise from someone, a group or even themselves I suppose (aware of Ifill mannerisms when walking to dairy) , to take charge, that could occur. (FFA?)
If they have 5 year licence, maybe after 3 years (season and a half from now) things could be reviewed (no expressions of interest, decide if they want to try something, whatever). If it doesn’t happen.
“for Wellington”
Hard to think of many bright outcomes with things without the Welnix investment following Serepisos. Cheers.
This is the benefit of these guys.
Anything else doesn’t really swim.
A fan is a fan.
There's so much more we can do but we all have to get past this ridiculous, self-indulgent sulking fast.
Don't stop believin' fellas.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Can we at least agree that we're doomed?
Grumpy old bastard alert
Yip, agree with most of that Jeff, and it is hard to engage with the club at the moment.
But I maintain that we have no other option. Threats to stay away are simply not a rational or productive response.
Also, it annoys me that we keep talking about Welnix as if they are exclusive "owners" and we are just the passive recipients of their generosity. Bullshark.
We are also massive stakeholders in the club. We were here before Welnix and we will be here after. They cannot do this without us just as we cannot do this without them. We should feel empowered by that and take more personal and collective responsibility for how this turns out.
Apparently they can do it without us Term, hence this talk of taking games on the road to 'find fans'.... Its not a sports franchise to them, its a business and bums on seats are
just dollars in the till so lets not sit here and say that they view us
as fans. We are just a meal ticket to achieve the bottom line .If you have not picked up already, its about bums on seats and bottom line. If that means they become a travelling roadshow to do so, I suggest they will do it.
I think someone else said, they choose to trash the ones that are coming in seeking more bums on seats than value and empower the ones that do come in trying to seek more.
Grumpy old bastard alert
Apparently they can do it without us Term, hence this talk of taking games on the road to 'find fans'.... Its not a sports franchise to them, its a business and bums on seats are
just dollars in the till so lets not sit here and say that they view us
as fans. We are just a meal ticket to achieve the bottom line .If you have not picked up already, its about bums on seats and bottom line. If that means they become a travelling roadshow to do so, I suggest they will do it.
I think someone else said, they choose to trash the ones that are coming in seeking more bums on seats than value and empower the ones that do come in trying to seek more.
I appreciate your opinion Jeff but I think you're being a bit emotive there.
You and I both know that the Phoenix will not become a traveling circus, at least not to any major extent, because it won't work. It will be too expensive, highly disruptive to the players, and after the novelty has worn off it will not generate any greater crowds elsewhere.
Even these suits will soon see that.
That's why it's so important that we don't blink in the meantime. By staying away we can only make things worse.
Personally I want to see a minimum of 10 home games in Wellington and can actually live with 3 (or 4, depending on the draw) games being played elsewhere. The slightly increased scarcity value of the games in Wellington might be good for crowds as long as too many people aren't sulking!
Jeebus JV - posts like that make me want to have your baby!
(curse this medical condition called "lack-of-a-womb")
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Apparently they can do it without us Term, hence this talk of taking games on the road to 'find fans'.... Its not a sports franchise to them, its a business and bums on seats are
just dollars in the till so lets not sit here and say that they view us
as fans. We are just a meal ticket to achieve the bottom line .If you have not picked up already, its about bums on seats and bottom line. If that means they become a travelling roadshow to do so, I suggest they will do it.
I think someone else said, they choose to trash the ones that are coming in seeking more bums on seats than value and empower the ones that do come in trying to seek more.
I appreciate your opinion Jeff but I think you're being a bit emotive there.
You and I both know that the Phoenix will not become a traveling circus, at least not to any major extent, because it won't work. It will be too expensive, highly disruptive to the players, and after the novelty has worn off it will not generate any greater crowds elsewhere.
Even these suits will soon see that.
That's why it's so important that we don't blink in the meantime. By staying away we can only make things worse.
Personally I want to see a minimum of 10 home games in Wellington and can actually live with 3 (or 4, depending on the draw) games being played elsewhere. The slightly increased scarcity value of the games in Wellington might be good for crowds as long as too many people aren't sulking!
Grumpy old bastard alert
Posts like that make me realise how short my attention span is.
Busy actually. Was only kidding ;) brilliant post. Very good summary of the whole situation, hopefully the owners do have a look on here from time to time, and recognise what their actions are doing to those who turn up week in week out - otherwise they're in danger of that core support dwindling as people become more disconnected with the club. That's not to say we should stop buying season tickets, but the fact people are even considering it ( whether legitimately, in anger or just because its the only way they now feel empowered) should be sending warning signals.
Jeebus JV - posts like that make me want to have your baby!
(curse this medical condition called "lack-of-a-womb")
Grumpy old bastard alert
Posts like that make me realise how short my attention span is.
Busy actually. Was only kidding ;) brilliant post. Very good summary of the whole situation, hopefully the owners do have a look on here from time to time, and recognise what their actions are doing to those who turn up week in week out - otherwise they're in danger of that core support dwindling as people become more disconnected with the club. That's not to say we should stop buying season tickets, but the fact people are even considering it ( whether legitimately, in anger or just because its the only way they now feel empowered) should be sending warning signals.
Grumpy old bastard alert
Apparently they can do it without us Term, hence this talk of taking games on the road to 'find fans'.... Its not a sports franchise to them, its a business and bums on seats are just dollars in the till so lets not sit here and say that they view us as fans. We are just a meal ticket to achieve the bottom line .If you have not picked up already, its about bums on seats and bottom line. If that means they become a travelling roadshow to do so, I suggest they will do it.
I think someone else said, they choose to trash the ones that are coming in seeking more bums on seats than value and empower the ones that do come in trying to seek more.
You and I both know that the Phoenix will not become a traveling circus, at least not to any major extent, because it won't work. It will be too expensive, highly disruptive to the players, and after the novelty has worn off it will not generate any greater crowds elsewhere.
Even these suits will soon see that.
I don't live in Wellington anymore but when I am down, the grandchild gets dibs. If I'm in Auckland, I'll may go have a nose at Waitak or ACFC but then I'm not drinking and its only a tenner so when I get home 3 hours later, I can get on with laundry and other stuff... Its not so much as an 'event' as a nosey up the road.
If you look at the Friday night T20 thats been put in by Sky to replace the Friday night rugby, I understand thats getting fudge all turning up regardless of location (not that I have watched the hit and giggle stuff). Perhaps its a sporting maliase in general and people just want summer to beach out after being cooped up in winter.
Grumpy old bastard alert
gate receipts are nowhere near as important as tv$$$
in order for it to appear as if a worthy event is being staged, cameras need to show a crowd
this gives the impression that a worthy event is taking place and gives the club/a-league some substance for tv negotiations
this bleeding heart 'we don't cover the cost of a home fixture' line seems to me to only consider direct revenue and costs - i.e. tickets sold less stadium hire, less other event costs = loss
factor in long term merchandising and tv revenue and the picture would be profitable
and i suggest that if the phoenix aren't seeing their fair share of tv revenue, then they should focus their attention on lobbying the FFA rather than taking issue with their own fans
Good article by Harris in SST today. Key points:
- need to ask themselves if Herbert, in his 6th year as coach, is on track to deliver a team capable of seriously challenging for the A League title (has stats to back up the doubts)
- Nix before this season scored 158 goals in 126 games - less than 1.25 goals a game
- This season - 1.3 so far
- Nix supporters aren't being fooled by the spin about making the playoffs in the last 3 seasons
- While developing young players to play possession based football may help long term - most clubs buy the great majority of their players
- "Fortunately the Nix only need 3 or 4 to become a good side."
- Muscat the only midfielder of the Muscat, Smith, Lia trio of league winning quality. That's where they need to splash the cash
- Get Rojas and Barbarouses back. That will get the turnstiles clicking.
Good article by Harris in SST today. Key points:
- need to ask themselves if Herbert, in his 6th year as coach, is on track to deliver a team capable of seriously challenging for the A League title (has stats to back up the doubts)
- Nix before this season scored 158 goals in 126 games - less than 1.25 goals a game
- This season - 1.3 so far
- Nix supporters aren't being fooled by the spin about making the playoffs in the last 3 seasons
- While developing young players to play possession based football may help long term - most clubs buy the great majority of their players
- "Fortunately the Nix only need 3 or 4 to become a good side."
- Muscat the only midfielder of the Muscat, Smith, Lia trio of league winning quality. That's where they need to splash the cash
- Get Rojas and Barbarouses back. That will get the turnstiles clicking.
All seemed quite reasoned & logical until the last point!
We're the WELLINGTON Phoenix
And this is our Home
What they should be doing (and I hope they are) is telling Wee Mac in no uncertain terms that IF he wants to stay in the A-league we'll match whatever he's being offered and throw in some additional carrots (chuckle). Such as - a box at the rugby, sunday morning brekky at Floriditas, an all-access pass to Kiwibank and Te Papa, a bar tab at Malthouse, a crack on the slide at Trade Me, Dan Keat to partner him in MF... anyway - you get my point.
If only.
Good article by Harris in SST today. Key points:
- need to ask themselves if Herbert, in his 6th year as coach, is on track to deliver a team capable of seriously challenging for the A League title (has stats to back up the doubts)
- Nix before this season scored 158 goals in 126 games - less than 1.25 goals a game
- This season - 1.3 so far
- Nix supporters aren't being fooled by the spin about making the playoffs in the last 3 seasons
- While developing young players to play possession based football may help long term - most clubs buy the great majority of their players
- "Fortunately the Nix only need 3 or 4 to become a good side."
- Muscat the only midfielder of the Muscat, Smith, Lia trio of league winning quality. That's where they need to splash the cash
- Get Rojas and Barbarouses back. That will get the turnstiles clicking.
Maybe that's the problem, winning at home is just too predictable. Boring boring Phoenix.
What a bunch of moaning pussy's some of you guys are.
Welnix says they will look into playing one possibly two more away games phased in over the next few years and then Gareth suggests that it would be great if the side played a more attacking style of football and all hell breaks lose.
Lets look at the facts....
-Welnex took the club over when it looked like folding...they admitted they were not football fans but they did it anyway using their OWN money.
-Since then they have completely restructed the club, sorted out the admin, added extra coaching staff and got the whole thing running on a professional basis
-In addition they have set up a proper youth Academy system that will in time reap huge rewards for the club.
-they have allowed the coach to spend the whole salary cap on the players he wanted
-they have funded the team to stay on in Australia to make them more competitive in their away games(Gareth personally wrote out a cheque himself to fund one stay last season)
-Welnix are committed to turning the club around so it does not lose money every year....admitting that it will probably never make money.
-We have probably one of the best run clubs around....would you rather be a Jets supporter right now? If Welnix can get the club financially viable then it will still be here in 30 or 40 years time.
I find some of the small minded petty vitriol pointed in their direction is just pathetic. Talk of boycotts etc is just so stupid it does not warrant any comment. How do some of you people think business's are run?. If the club makes a loss the owners personally have to make up the difference, how viable is that long term. Businesses that consistently lose money go BUST! If they can make some extra money by taking another game or two on the road then why shouldn't they?
As for Gareths comments. He is personally entitled to his opinion. The Nix have scored 13 goals from 10 games....3 or 4 of those were from penalties or Brockies free kick. So we all agree that 9 goals from open play in 10 games is unexceptible. We all want the side to play more attacking football. We all want them to score more goals. Gareth is right on the money with his comments....the football this season has been largely dire.
So instead of some of you bitching and moaning, do what lots of us do...go to the games, get more of your mates along, buy the merchandise and support your team....coz the alternative is no Phoenix.
As a postscript...the timing of Chairman Morrison saying they might take some more games away was terrible. Not the thing to say in mid season, especially when things are not not going well....
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