Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA (Part 2)

Must be. Dome even used the same Robbism ‘in short..no’ ha

A comprehensive report there with some classic contradictory comments.

Pokies grants require Accountability Reports to be prepared on how the money is spent, especially when the grant is provided for a specific purpose.

Dome should know where the grant money is coming from and being spent because of that. Interesting that he says he doesn't.

Isn’t his argument that the Foundation is separate from the Phoenix so they are the one that spends the money?

As always with the Phoenix, the issue here is the obfuscation and complete lack of transparency. It’s absolutely clear that they have pushed all of the costs of employing the coaches down onto the foundation and Wellington United so that grant funding can be sought to pay those salaries. 

The Foundation and Wellington United can of course claim that they exist to service football in general, but when they are part of a development pathway that leads to the Wellington Phoenix first team it’s pretty clear this is quite carefully structured. West’s and Ole run a very similar model so it’s not unique, but they are dancing on a tightrope here.

why is it that when something positive about football comes out Liam and Stuff have to match it with an equally negative story...

The recent CBA with the women’s game, 2 days later the Tall Pollies start spreading info about a camp where the players didn’t like the new coach’s way of doing things?!? I mean talk about undermine the months and months of work the PFA had put in for the CBA.

Now the Nix actually have some really good news about Rudan and Liam decides it’s time release this story (which he has clearly been sitting on for some time) to rip the Nix back down to earth. Liam you are a tall poppy monger and try putting the game first for once.

If your really worried about the misapropiaction of pokie fund spending maybe go check what the breakers have been doing for the last 10 years or the Warriors etc....

Ok so what you are saying is there is widespread misuse of pokie  money by professional sports clubs, which come from the most vulnerable in society, potentially breaching the gambling act, and it’s NOT a story...right-oh

Whats just as interesting and would love the question be put to the writer of the article. Why of all the ripoffs and rorts that go with pokie funding was the Phoenix funding chosen to be the one focused on.

Given we are pretty good at kicking ourselves you wonder why and their motivation, someone has decided we need more negative press.

as someone else said any wonder Rob was pissed off at the press.

Liam's timing is interesting. The academy has been in place for years, so you wonder why he has chosen to write the story now??

Ha, glad you got that out of all that. I am not passing judgment on anything about gambling laws or gambling itself. I am simply talking about Liam’s timing. And how other sports don’t get reported about.

Re: Gambling trusts, pokies and vulnerable people of society are a larger problem and that this forum is not the place to discuss.

No wonder it's harder these days for actual amateur clubs to get grants these days when professional outfits are gaming the system in this way. 

Because Morrison was being a Twit?

Private coffee in a Wellington cafe, you say? Please tell me it was Astoria...

My point exactly... why couldn’t he had left the Rudan glow be enjoyed by the long suffering supporters for a couple of weeks before trying to spin the club in a bad light again. And for James I am not saying for one minute it shouldn’t be discussed but I can’t help but question his timing. I guess some guys just like bursting bubbles.

This is absolute nonsense. I've been a season ticket holder for years and I am 100% supportive of the club being brought to account if they're breaking the law. You don't get to smother a story like that just because it's inconvenient.

Rugby does.

I think you are falling into the same trap as the Phoenix and blaming the media for bad media about the club. 

The dom post is not out to get the Phoenix. They try and sell newspapers, so if the timing is designed to do that can you seriously complain? This is a properly researched story that makes the Phoenix look pretty iffy, and certainly in my mind calls into question some of the claims about how much  of the academy is funded by Welnix. Certainly getting gaming funding and using it to pay consultancy fees to Welnix raises alarm bells. 

Maybe if the club had better relationships with journalists there would be fewer negative stories, I am really not sure why they haven’t tried that approach...

The editor decides when the story runs, not the journo

Really don’t see what is the issue with a football journo writing a story about our only professional football club.

I have to agree with you, the PR department def need a few lessons on how to keep them closer but thats not Rob’s way I guess...

If Liam wanted to do a proper job maybe he should have bought into question all sports rather than just picking off the Nix, like the Breakers, Rugby, league etc etc. the bottom line is they all rout the system and even when the DIA have done enquirers into these organisations they have all been found to be playing by the current rules. 

It’s not the organisations fault but the rules laid out for them to follow.

The bottom line is that NZ doesn’t have enough money in any game to fund pro sport and if funding was taken away most pro outfits would be forced to cut back on coach’s and players choosing sport as a career option.

I am not supporting pokie funding but i didn’t know what other option there is and maybe it’s a wider conversation for the new Government.

If you think back to the old NZF national league that was sponsored by cigarette companies, when they ruled it out they had one or two years of ‘smoke free’ sponsorship then the funds disappeared back into government coffers and football clubs were left with no funding.

If we think of coach’s like Jose who’s wages have been almost 100% by pokies while he has learnt his trade, how do we keep guys like this in the game but not rely on pokies money?

I guess what I’m saying is that it’s a much larger story that just the Nix getting a small part to help fund the cultivation of young players through the academy. 

So "petty revenge" is now an acceptable motivation for journalism. Gotcha.

Interesting that no-one is comparing the current situation to Dave Burgess' attempt to drag the Phoenix into the gutter in 2011 - remember when he said that the Yellow Fever was an opaque, non-transparent, secretive body that should publish its membership lists? Remember what being on the receiving end of a journo vendetta was like?

I only note that people here have been pointing out the huge pokie-rort which is ACFC for years now, and no-one in the mainstream media was interested. Sure the Nix are our only professional club, but ACFC are our premier "shamateur" club.

Whatever happened to Terminator x?

that was Burgess' opinion

I realise I might be misinterpreted, so let me clarify: I can't actually tell for myself from reading the article (not had coffee yet) whether Hyslop is right that there is an ACFC-style rort going on. Hyslop is right to raise questions, this is good journalism.

What is not right is the suggestion that Hyslop would not be raising the questions if Rob Morrison were polite to him, bought him a sandwich etc. If true that would be disgusting. I hate the whole media/PR "protection racket" situation.

Journos' "opinion" is often taken as good oil by casual punters. I'm a musician so I know how careers can be wrecked if some media gatekeeper has it in for you. Dave Burgess was dragged by YF so he tried to drag us back. The media have a lot of power and don't always use it responsibility, is my point.

As many will know the whole gaming environment is a quagmire and its tough to get funding. Despite efforts to clean it up, a lot still depends on who you know and the kickbacks given. Professional organisations like Welnix, NZRugby etc with their "superior" adninistrative power are taking funding that the grass roots is missing out on. Deep down I think I am uncomfortable with the Phoenix Academy being funded in this manner at the expense of grass roots programmes. Its probably a fine line in some cases, what is the main reason for most academies? to develop players for pro careers? Tricky one for me.

the timing seems to have everything to do with this. i think this quote is RM to Piney (from Stuff article)??

"The Welnix ownership group has invested a significant amount of money and continue to do so including an unprecedented investment into the club's academy which is A-League leading and is producing some significant player talent,

...Then you said your investment in your academy was "largely unsupported by the national body"

Most with a keen interest in Wgtn football would know the biggest funder of The academey. And its not the money raised by the foundation

The article is pay back - Playground stuff

Rob should have stayed in the kitchen. Well he did but that made it even more weird seeing the dishwasher behind him

I have experience with local sports funding and in journalism, and I think some of the accusations being made here are quite unfair.

First of all, there is nothing to suggest that the timing is strategic other than it being published in the weekend paper, which is when investigative sports stories are normally run. Just because the sources talk about meetings from a couple of months ago doesn't mean he or Stuff have been waiting for some ~best~ time to hurt the club. We know that journalists have been complaining about Welnix not getting back to them, Liam probably couldn't get them on the record about what he'd found until this week.

Why hasn't he looked at other teams/sports? My guess is that, as pointed out in the article, he decided to dig into the Phoenix after the response he received to a question relating to the foundation. Could he have turned this into a big exposé about every sport under the sun? Sure, but he was intrigued about a specific club in a fairly unique situation. He has mentioned on Twitter that he might take a look at rugby funding next, though that is something that has been reported on quite a few times in the past, and is even mentioned in the article itself.

As for why no-one has investigated ACFC? That's because NZF have determined that the Prem is amateur and there is a standard contract for players that is all about "training fees" and "match fees" that it has been decided does not contravene their amateur status because it's just a proxy for reimbursement for travel and gear expenses. The method of paying players for coaching is a pretty well-established method of paying high-level amateur players, which is why how they were paying kids like Joel Stevens was okay.

then its pretty clear the paper does have an issue with the nix. If the journo has had the story a while now, why has the editor waiting to run it now? And why, if its supposed to be a expose on the abuse of the funding, is it solely focused on the nix and not all the rorts going on, ie across rugby, football and probably most sporting bodies that have found loopholes to get money they may not be entitled too?

Nothing wrong with the story if true. Nothing wrong with the timing.

If true however we have been told some pokies previously by management and Wellnix 

Just because he’s been working on it a while doesn’t mean it was finished a while ago. A story on all sports would be massive and a single story about the Nix would still be one part on its own. I also notice you’re playing the “but everyone does it” card

Cleaned up at the pokies. Retired.