Phoenix Ownership - Rob says FTFFA

So what is the club saying?

Is it really that risky JD,another team in Sydney less travel at their worst they would have to get at least the same number of fans as us. and would probably be much more attractive to broadcasters than we are. Yep may well be a red herring but i wouldnt be so quick to dismiss it as some are.

Maybe it'll actually be CCM or the Jets who get rolled for this new South Sydney team.

Also, De Bohun saying that they aren't planning to expand in the foreseeable future - I thought he'd always said they were when the current tv deal expires?

They didn't sign up for this shark.

Wouldn't blame the WelNix for walking away the way the FFA are running this bullshark!

Given the swear filter on this site it seems kind of fitting the NRL team involved in this proposal are called the sharks.

Anyway, I think we shouldn't read too much into this. News stories often leave out contextual information etc anyway (see that story about the woman suing her nephew for breaking her arm) even when they're dealing with strict facts, so ones which say stuff like "sources say" and "Fairfax understands" are basically just plausible speculation to fill column inches/generate clicks.

Stable owners are hard to find.  Anything that involves an element of speculation like this draws the speculators or those with deep pockets.  History shows many of the latter end up being the former

nice stadium

Also, I imagine it takes a while to work through all the logistics of creating and establishing a club. Whilst they are in discussions, perhaps they are looking at 2017 rather than 2016 season.

Give them time to come up with a solid business plan. Given the history of failed ownership I can't see the FFA wanting to dish out money again to keep a club afloat.

Whilst our tv revenue is still small currently, it does have the potential to increase significantly.

Personally I think they need to add more teams and lengthen the comp. The current model is too short.

Hope this doesn't effect the teams performance.

We know the FFA like to negotiate through the press, so this is probably a tactic to put pressure on the nix as said above. 

Really shark way to run a competition, the FFA treat the owners like crap, the fans like crap. You burn enough bridges... no wonder viewership and croud numbers are down this year.

And no expansion for the foreseeable future? What a joke.

I know its been said multiple times but the Phoenix don't rate any worse than CCM or the Jets, there are 500k expats in Australia so you'd think that some of them are signed up to fox to watch Phoenix games. Phoenix crouds may be small but we don't get any away traveling fans. Add an Auckland franchise you get more NZ exposure, higher ratings, and three derbys a year to increase attendance.

Kind of stadium we need so our 8,000 fans don't look swamped in yellow seats.

Guy Heveldt ‏@GuyHeveldt 46m46 minutes ago

David Dome says: "No substantiation in the article. Rumour and scuttlebutt" #ALeague #Phoenix

pull out now and just get it over and done with! ;>)

when the article starts talking about a second team in Brisbane when the first one is broke ... you know you are dealing with Chinese Whispers or as the French call it 'Arabic Telephone'

Just an FYI, I used the phrase chinese whispers once, and a guy from china in our team (who was pretty easy going) complained to HR because its considered racist and offensive.

i agree with this.  NZ teams have been a huge part of the A-League's success and have funded it in the same way others have.  Feels like a garbage move

Also something not mentioned, but if they don't have the phoenix then NO-ONE in New Zealand would bother, and then you lose a whole market instead of having only small benefits from it.

Yup.

I would use the time I spend watching and following the Nix on the ASB premiership.  I imagine a large number of other people would also stop watching the A League, especially kiwis in AU.

Its just getting shark.  Especially after that news piece.  

The comp really needs to be its own thing so that it can do whats best for the league and not the fudgeing FFA.

Whilst understandable with our black and yellow tinted goggles on, some people are overestimating what the Phoenix/NZ market bring to the A-league, and therefore the FFA.

I did say small benefits. I am comparing it as bigger than nothing is all. Not sure that a third team in Sydney would bring anything new to FFA, and can't see it being bigger than the small benefits of NZ Market.

There is a huge "potential" Nix fanbase in Aussie, just as there is in Wellington - though the reality is that in the best bart of a decade the surface of that fanbase has barely been scratched, at least on a consistent basis. And there are few tangible signs of growth.

That erodes significantly the perceived (and real) commercial/sponsorship/tv/financial value we bring to the FFA.

And at the end of the day, the benefit/s for the FFA of having us in the league (or not) boil down to dollars.

It's all (and only) about dollars.

True, it was a bit different when I was 7 years old in 1983, maybe I should grow up BUT then I don't understand how that spray and walk away ad is ok...............you can trust the FFA to spray and walk away though, no scrubbing, no hard work, just come back the next year and the nix are gone.

That's why they keep going on about wanting more from Welnix/Sky/NZF... they don't care where it comes from, they just want more of it.

Almost like putting money and the pursuit of it involves focusing on TV rights, pricing fans out and sidelining supporters....oh, wait.

It would be typically short sighted of them though.  

The same geniuses that thought Clive Palmer and Nathan Tinkler were good ideas are behind putting a club in a non-footballing stronghold who's limited football fanbase is generally aligned to Sydney FC.

Cannibalisation won't grow the league it will just dilute the market you have.

Mind you this is also the geniuses who think the opposing teams in a derby match lining up facing each other isn't remotely contrived or embarrassing.

De Bohun needs to spend more time making this league viable and less time out on this piss until four in the morning.

If you are referring to Sutherland, you are seriously misinformed. The people of the Sutherland Shire (and a lot of Wollongong/Illawarra) would support Sutherland and Sydney FC would lose about one third of its fan base.

On this wider issue though, there is a natural untapped derby "market" of 1.2 million in Auckland. From a franchising perspective it sharks all over supposed other Aussie regional or even Sydney/Melbourne new entry markets. Hyundai as major sponsor would surely want Auckland in the mix too. League, basketball "Aussie" leagues have been trans Tasman leagues for years. Our primary rugby and netball competitions don't work without Kiwis and Aussies working together. As much as we love to hate each other, we desperately need each other. The posturing is getting ridiculous now and both key parties need to put an end to it quickly.

The lack of certainty doesn't help bring the fan base out though.  If people are going to put their limited time and money into a club they want to know the f**king thing will exist more than a couple of years. 

Plus surely playing in NZ helps Australian players by regularly playing in different conditions, and dealing with travel, and other benefits to their players.

Plus surely a stable league with a small but different market and advertising all adds something, surely even helps other teams get sponsors.

In a nutshell, Dome just said on Radio Sport that he's spoken to the FFA about the article, and it's nonsense, they want a 10 team league next season and they want the Phoenix to be part of that. The discussions with Cronulla seem to have been talks regarding possible expansion in 2 or 3 years time. 

Looks like yet another media beat-up. Surprise, surprise. 

Are they trying to put pressure on wellnix here, or nzf? I think it's the latter. This threat is basically to nzf to force their hand and get them to shell out more. No pro team in NZ would he wrote a bodyblow for nzf.

Dome was just on radio sport.

He said its all bullshark, that the extension is pretty much agreed to its just the details they are working through. He said that they are in constant contact with the FFA and everyone is positive and the FFA themselves are getting anxious to get the deal through, the Phoenix aren't worried about it at all. Although he admitted there is a bit of an unknown with the new FFA board. 

He said that the Phoenix metrics need to improve, revenue needs to improve, attendance and viewership needs to improve. But the FFA want to help the Phoenix achieve these goals not give them an ultimatum. He also said that the Phoenix viewership figures in Australia are higher than some other teams.

He said that the reason expansion isn't on the cards for the foreseeable future is not because the A-League doesn't want to expand but because there are no ownership consortiums out there that the FFA have faith in being able to succeed.

double post.

I think the most interesting points from Dome interview on Radio Sport just now.

• David Dome says he's spoken to A-League bosses who say the story is a "beat up" and the FFA wants the Phoenix in the A-League
• Issue why a licence hasn't been granted is the length the Phoenix want compared to what FFA want to give
• Nix don't have lowest viewer ship in the league for TV.

So pretty much what everyone thought, find the TV one interesting though. Love to see the stats behind it.

I doubt that the extension length is the only reason, it's just that Devlin asked if the licence extension was a reason.

link for Dome on the radio?

I'm sure there is a few other things, but that is probably the biggest for the simple fact if the Nix would take the 5 years I'm sure it would all be done and dusted now.

http://content.radionetwork.co.nz/weekondemand/radiosport/51015.mp3

4min50 in

Story here with just the Domey interview

Think there are some stats (and pretty graphs) earlier in this thread showing exactly that. 

We get marginally better viewership than the jets and CCM - more if you include sky viewerships. 

Melbourne and Sydney sides are helped out significantly by the derby games. While the 'F3 derby' (and now distance derby) don't get any extra viewership at all.