Wellington Phoenix Men

Phoenix Transfer Speculation 2012/13

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about 13 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

Or we release one. Totori out

Carlos is a fat turnip.



Unless he's Mr Creosote-sized he'd still give us more options than our current 'creative' midfield.

Anyway, I doubt we'll see him here.
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about 13 years ago · edited about 13 years ago · History

2ndBest wrote:

 C might the biggest hurdle.  Doesn't provide any marketability for the club.

(e) lets the FFA include the fact he is a former Johnny Warren medallist, and 8th highest all time goal scorer in the league. We got Fred on his past A-League performances, Carlos on a guest stint wouldn't be any issue you would think.
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about 13 years ago

Also where would he play? How many AMs do we need?

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago

Spose we got Elliott on a guest too.

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about 13 years ago

2ndBest wrote:

Spose we got Elliott on a guest too.

Still would rather we made a play for Smeltzy. Damn short arms & long pockets.
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about 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

Rumours on twitter that we are chasing Carlos Hernandez, despite the fact that we have no import slots left.



Founder

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about 13 years ago

Are chickens one of the birds uncle Gareth is trying to protect? Because if so then there's no way we will get Carlos. 


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about 13 years ago

I thought we didn't want to pay for a marquee ? He will demand massive wages for sure.



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about 13 years ago

 Perhaps the exchange rate is in our favour if we pay him in pie.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 13 years ago · edited about 13 years ago · History

nufc_nz wrote:

I thought we didn't want to pay for a marquee ? He will demand massive wages for sure.


Why would he ? He is desperate to come back to the A-League and has been saying so for months. He's currently plying his trade at a second division Indian club as far as I know and is not happy at all.

Would love him here. A unfit, fat Carlos is still 100x better than Sanchez. Think the league has moved on a bit but we have been desperate for a player like Carlos for a long time.

a.haak

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about 13 years ago

valeo wrote:

Think the league has moved on a bit but we have been desperate for a player like Carlos for a long time.

We did have elrich


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about 13 years ago

I don't think Sanchez is a bad player his problem is the lack of quality around him. Lia and Smith are just not good enough and Lindsay up-tried/proven. Muscat can at least win the ball but not much more.

 

BTW stoked Lochead got sent off - take the decision out of Ricki's hands.

Peoples Republik of Aucklandia

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about 13 years ago

I think you will find huysegems might be off. Explain Ricki not swapping him into the game against jets

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about 13 years ago

PROAK wrote:

I don't think Sanchez is a bad player his problem is the lack of quality around him. Lia and Smith are just not good enough and Lindsay up-tried/proven. Muscat can at least win the ball but not much more.

 

BTW stoked Lochead got sent off - take the decision out of Ricki's hands.

so if Sanchez is not a bad player who is surrounded by mediocre talent, what difference would Hernandez make?

I think the truth of the matter is, is that if Sanchez was a good footballer, he would shine and make those players better and unlock defences. Other quality players in the league can. Which arrives me at my point that I don't think Sanchez is a good use of an import slot (or Smith or Totori) or an A League footballer

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago

bladenix wrote:

I think you will find huysegems might be off. Explain Ricki not swapping him into the game against jets


off from a two year contract after only 3 months? - that will cost welnix plenty.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 13 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

PROAK wrote:

I don't think Sanchez is a bad player his problem is the lack of quality around him. Lia and Smith are just not good enough and Lindsay up-tried/proven. Muscat can at least win the ball but not much more.

 

BTW stoked Lochead got sent off - take the decision out of Ricki's hands.

so if Sanchez is not a bad player who is surrounded by mediocre talent, what difference would Hernandez make?

I think the truth of the matter is, is that if Sanchez was a good footballer, he would shine and make those players better and unlock defences. Other quality players in the league can. Which arrives me at my point that I don't think Sanchez is a good use of an import slot (or Smith or Totori) or an A League footballer

I agree. Id be disappointed to see any of those three next season. Sanchez would be the better of the 3 but hes too hot and cold. I would like to see 3 players of proven quality who could start every week.
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about 13 years ago

bladenix wrote:

I think you will find huysegems might be off. Explain Ricki not swapping him into the game against jets


I hope it's Smith. Not a fan at all and he didn't even make the bench against the Jest.

a.haak

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about 13 years ago

AJ13 wrote:

Jeff Vader wrote:

PROAK wrote:

I don't think Sanchez is a bad player his problem is the lack of quality around him. Lia and Smith are just not good enough and Lindsay up-tried/proven. Muscat can at least win the ball but not much more.

 

BTW stoked Lochead got sent off - take the decision out of Ricki's hands.

so if Sanchez is not a bad player who is surrounded by mediocre talent, what difference would Hernandez make?

I think the truth of the matter is, is that if Sanchez was a good footballer, he would shine and make those players better and unlock defences. Other quality players in the league can. Which arrives me at my point that I don't think Sanchez is a good use of an import slot (or Smith or Totori) or an A League footballer

I agree. Id be disappointed to see any of those three next season. Sanchez would be the better of the 3 but hes too hot and cold. I would like to see 3 players of proven quality who could start every week.
Not often we agree but yes. All season we have hardly been able to get anymore than 3 of the imports near the team at any one time (and invariably 1 or 2 will be subs). That really says that our imports are crap for you may as well save the coin and recruit AU or NZ players to ride the pine at a cheaper cost.
I'm still of the belief that we should only recruit 4 imports next year and spread the cash across 4 vs 5 players.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago

theprof wrote:
off from a two year contract after only 3 months? - that will cost welnix plenty.


I doubt they would cut him.  A chance he could be homesick and may want out himself? 

Of course every bit of this is conjecture, who is coming, who is staying, the lot.  I'd have thought you'd want to see how Huysegems plays with a player of Hernandez' quality anyway.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 13 years ago

 Or he's not happy being stuck on the bench and has offers elsewhere. He turned down a club in Ukraine for us.

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about 13 years ago

Ryan wrote:

 Or he's not happy being stuck on the bench and has offers elsewhere. He turned down a club in Ukraine for us.

not exactly true - he actually turned them down before he chose to come to us - he may have even accepted their offer if i remember correctly, but realised he didnt want his family there and did a smeltz? 


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about 13 years ago

Would take Hernandez in a heartbeat, despite how fat he may be. Wonder if it will be a short term "back in the league so I can find a better gig for next year" type situation ala Reddy & Vukovic.

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about 13 years ago

hlmphil wrote:

Would take Hernandez in a heartbeat, despite how fat he may be. Wonder if it will be a short term "back in the league so I can find a better gig for next year" type situation ala Reddy & Vukovic & Cernak & Ward .

fixed


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about 13 years ago

Doloras wrote:

 Perhaps the exchange rate is in our favour if we pay him in pie.

Maybe KFC are going to pay for him. Do Victory still have them as a sponsor or did that stop when Carlos left?
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about 13 years ago

As much as I don't agree with Ricky's choices (esp. bringing Totori on the other day, effectively leaving us with 9 men and keeping Stein, a proper CF on the bench) - I still think that players need to suck it up sometimes and just get on with the job.

At the end of the day they get paid handsomely to kick a ball around - so they will do what the coach says. If he is unhappy, tough titties. I am sometimes unhappy at my job - for whatever reason - but I don't quit whenever I feel like it.


This being said, Ricky's call was mental on Sunday. He obviously thinks that Benji is more effective than Waffles and he is right. He is more effective than him in:

a) passing the ball to the opposition

b) getting caught out of position

c) falling over the ball whilst trying a step over

d) being fouled but not getting the foul

e) sprinting/fitness


VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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about 13 years ago

Would love to see Smeltz and Hernandez here but realise I'm living in a dream world; Smeltz and Stein up top with Hernandez in behind..

a.haak

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about 13 years ago

See, I like Totori, I just wish he wouldn't bring his friends. Pass to the opposition Totori, fall over Totori, hog the ball Totori... 

I like tautologies because I like them.
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about 13 years ago · edited about 13 years ago · History

You forgot get clipped in the box and stop playing to appeal to the ref when we're 1-1 in the dying minutes of the game Totori.

a.haak

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about 13 years ago

valeo wrote:

You forgot get clipped in the box and stop playing to appeal to the ref when we're 1-1 in the dying minutes of the game Totori.

 

yeah he's a dick.

I like tautologies because I like them.
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about 13 years ago

I kind of feel sorry for Sanchez. Last year he looked great as an attacking AM just in behind the striker....then Ricki shunted him out to the wing and he was crap there. This year he was injured and came back into his prefered position and looked OK and added to the team effort. After 2 or 3 games there Ricki shunts him back deeper into a sort of passing DM role. He did OK but lacked the physical presence for the defensive side of the role. Now he is playing beside Fenton in front of Muscat in a 4123 setup.

When will Ricki learn that moving guys out of their prefered positions does not always work. Some players are specialists in one position...Sanchez looks like that sort of player

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about 13 years ago

I think it is an indictment on Rickys coaching that he can bring Cernak into a pivotal role in the cm with no training to understand patterns or develop relationships with the other team members and thinks that is better than someone who knows the 'plays / patterns' (assuming we have some). You could sense no-one knew how to move off Cernak to receive the ball from him.

Without suggesting we don't need to get some fresh players, as far as coaching goes, I would expect a coach to:

1: Develop players to improve their game as individuals (visible through improved accuracy passing, crosses, tighter control, keeping possession when challenged etc),

2: Develop the team to be better than the sum of its parts (visible through increased retention of ball when passing, not closing each others space etc)

On both of these fronts I do not see that Ricky has succeeded. As coaches we promote the idea of creating space when in possession. Even from our goal kicks we all bunch up and make it so easy for defenders to mark us and gain possession, and our play is static - typically passing to people standing waiting rather than moving into space. As forwards they all run forward in a line and the pass into the box is a lottery.

On defence we are taught to shut down the oppositions space - we stand so far off them that they have time to have a cuppa before we close them down and even then, put so little pressure on the ball that they have their head up and can pick their pass without pressure. 

Overall, I think our players and team are better than they are being coached and a new coach will bring out better performance all round. 

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about 13 years ago

valeo wrote:

You forgot get clipped in the box and stop playing to appeal to the ref when we're 1-1 in the dying minutes of the game Totori.


yeh I was appealling to the ref from behind the tele...still can't be that good if he's beating players in the box.


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about 13 years ago

JBoss wrote:

I think it is an indictment on Rickys coaching that he can bring Cernak into a pivotal role in the cm with no training to understand patterns or develop relationships with the other team members and thinks that is better than someone who knows the 'plays / patterns' (assuming we have some). You could sense no-one knew how to move off Cernak to receive the ball from him.

Without suggesting we don't need to get some fresh players, as far as coaching goes, I would expect a coach to:

1: Develop players to improve their game as individuals (visible through improved accuracy passing, crosses, tighter control, keeping possession when challenged etc),

2: Develop the team to be better than the sum of its parts (visible through increased retention of ball when passing, not closing each others space etc)

On both of these fronts I do not see that Ricky has succeeded. As coaches we promote the idea of creating space when in possession. Even from our goal kicks we all bunch up and make it so easy for defenders to mark us and gain possession, and our play is static - typically passing to people standing waiting rather than moving into space. As forwards they all run forward in a line and the pass into the box is a lottery.

On defence we are taught to shut down the oppositions space - we stand so far off them that they have time to have a cuppa before we close them down and even then, put so little pressure on the ball that they have their head up and can pick their pass without pressure. 

Overall, I think our players and team are better than they are being coached and a new coach will bring out better performance all round. 


This
Totally agree. 
OK players sometimes do dumb things under pressure. But what we are seeing at the Nix week in week out are repetition of fundamentally basic errors. The sort of stuff you outlined should be sorted out at the coaching level. You used to be able to rely on Ricki to set up a side that was hard to break down and defended well but even that is looking shaking this season. 
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about 13 years ago

martinb wrote:

valeo wrote:

You forgot get clipped in the box and stop playing to appeal to the ref when we're 1-1 in the dying minutes of the game Totori.


yeh I was appealling to the ref from behind the tele...still can't be that good if he's beating players in the box.

I'm not advocating diving but if that had been someone like ADP or Mark Bridge they would have gone down as soon as they felt that contact, in which case the notoriously whistle happy Ben Williams would've been highly likely to give a penalty.

Similar thing happened with Lochy - he got clipped in the Jets box, staggered, but kept his feet. Again, if he'd gone to ground the chances of a penalty were pretty good.

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about 13 years ago

austin10 wrote:

JBoss wrote:

I think it is an indictment on Rickys coaching that he can bring Cernak into a pivotal role in the cm with no training to understand patterns or develop relationships with the other team members and thinks that is better than someone who knows the 'plays / patterns' (assuming we have some). You could sense no-one knew how to move off Cernak to receive the ball from him.

Without suggesting we don't need to get some fresh players, as far as coaching goes, I would expect a coach to:

1: Develop players to improve their game as individuals (visible through improved accuracy passing, crosses, tighter control, keeping possession when challenged etc),

2: Develop the team to be better than the sum of its parts (visible through increased retention of ball when passing, not closing each others space etc)

On both of these fronts I do not see that Ricky has succeeded. As coaches we promote the idea of creating space when in possession. Even from our goal kicks we all bunch up and make it so easy for defenders to mark us and gain possession, and our play is static - typically passing to people standing waiting rather than moving into space. As forwards they all run forward in a line and the pass into the box is a lottery.

On defence we are taught to shut down the oppositions space - we stand so far off them that they have time to have a cuppa before we close them down and even then, put so little pressure on the ball that they have their head up and can pick their pass without pressure. 

Overall, I think our players and team are better than they are being coached and a new coach will bring out better performance all round. 


This
Totally agree. 
OK players sometimes do dumb things under pressure. But what we are seeing at the Nix week in week out are repetition of fundamentally basic errors. The sort of stuff you outlined should be sorted out at the coaching level. You used to be able to rely on Ricki to set up a side that was hard to break down and defended well but even that is looking shaking this season. 

 

Yep. I'm so underwhelmed by Ricki now. It's possible the team just isn't doing anything he says, but I don't buy it.

I like tautologies because I like them.
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about 13 years ago

JBoss wrote:

I think it is an indictment on Rickys coaching that he can bring Cernak into a pivotal role in the cm with no training to understand patterns or develop relationships with the other team members and thinks that is better than someone who knows the 'plays / patterns' (assuming we have some). You could sense no-one knew how to move off Cernak to receive the ball from him.

Without suggesting we don't need to get some fresh players, as far as coaching goes, I would expect a coach to:

1: Develop players to improve their game as individuals (visible through improved accuracy passing, crosses, tighter control, keeping possession when challenged etc),

2: Develop the team to be better than the sum of its parts (visible through increased retention of ball when passing, not closing each others space etc)

On both of these fronts I do not see that Ricky has succeeded. As coaches we promote the idea of creating space when in possession. Even from our goal kicks we all bunch up and make it so easy for defenders to mark us and gain possession, and our play is static - typically passing to people standing waiting rather than moving into space. As forwards they all run forward in a line and the pass into the box is a lottery.

On defence we are taught to shut down the oppositions space - we stand so far off them that they have time to have a cuppa before we close them down and even then, put so little pressure on the ball that they have their head up and can pick their pass without pressure. 

Overall, I think our players and team are better than they are being coached and a new coach will bring out better performance all round. 

Agree with part of what you are saying but im afraid if he is expected to be doing number 1 then that just shows how badly we have recruited if players need to be coached in these areas.At this level most of that should be automatic espeacially in  older players.Yes there is room for some improvement but they are really basics of the game and if a player hasnt got those skills when he arrives then he certainly shouldnt be given much time.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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about 13 years ago

Outpost wrote:

martinb wrote:

valeo wrote:

You forgot get clipped in the box and stop playing to appeal to the ref when we're 1-1 in the dying minutes of the game Totori.


yeh I was appealling to the ref from behind the tele...still can't be that good if he's beating players in the box.

I'm not advocating diving but if that had been someone like ADP or Mark Bridge they would have gone down as soon as they felt that contact, in which case the notoriously whistle happy Ben Williams would've been highly likely to give a penalty.

Similar thing happened with Lochy - he got clipped in the Jets box, staggered, but kept his feet. Again, if he'd gone to ground the chances of a penalty were pretty good.

There is a difference between diving and going to ground with contact. A lot of players ride it out and Ben and Lochhy have been mentioned. Had they gone to ground then I would not classify that as diving. Diving is what Geronimo did.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago

Except he didn't dive - just ask the MRP!

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