Wellington Phoenix Men

R17 v Radelaide Sat 1st Feb 7:30pm SS2

586 replies · 30,661 views
about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History
MetalLegNZ wrote:

592... not an Aucklander so that doesn't really mean too much to me.

Besides at what time does the past become exactly that, the past.

Utilising the statistics for a one off visit to somewhere to lambast the regular 'home' venues crowds is naive. By the same token we could compare the Phoenix 30k plus in the play-offs with Aucklands sub 12k last year and suggest that when you take the population base into account that is a sign that no football should ever be played in Auckland.

..and yes I'm defensive, mainly because I've lived thorugh the 09 train wrecks and have to put up with statements like that from ill-informed media numpties and the claptrap from some of our owners without having to see it on a forum that is about supporting the Wellington Phoenix.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 12 years ago
2ndBest wrote:

Kings is cloded for EQ strenthening. Try the pub on the Terrace.



Looks like a typo. I am sure you meant "clouded".

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 12 years ago


I see the Nix as an interesting mix of Wellington and NZ based. Being from neither Auckland or Welly, I find myself willing and able to support any NZ team in the A League. I was a keen supporter of the Kingz and Knights. I used to get extremely frustrated at Aucklanders for not supporting their teams. I think they lost out big time, because even if they didn't go because they didn't think the team was good enough, at least there was a chance. Now I am a passionate supporter of the Nix, even if it is twice as far away. I feel proud of the Nix though they are a Wellington team. I claim them as my team. I happily chant "Oh Wellington is wonderful" because they are. If it wasn't for Wellington I wouldn't have a football team to support. So thank you Wellnix, Wellington and NZ have a team.


I agree completely. Top post.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 12 years ago

Head.

Desk.

E + R + O

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History

WELLINGTON Phoenix. 

The more the nix move away from that (by taking games away) toward becoming nz Phoenix, the less connected I feel to the team. 

We are a Wellington team. I love the team because its awesome having a professional football team in my city. 

What about fans from all over nz you ask? I liken it to people supporting say a club in England. You choose a team in another city that you feel some connection to. For example (pre-Phoenix) I chose to support Leeds united because they had a few Australians and a kiwi at the time. Its a very loose connection. People outside of Wellington, but in nz presumably support wellington as they feel a connection of it being the only nz professional side (and thus also obviously has a lot of nz players). These are completely legitimate fans, there is no snobbery from me. This connection is also obviously a hell of a lot stronger than my loose connection to Leeds united in England. 

In summary: Wellington team, with a lot of fans from elsewhere in nz. 


Allegedly

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about 12 years ago

I guess I see them as a NZ team because I don't have another choice. They are our only professional team. Yes its based in Wellington, yes it has Wellington in the name, but it is our team. As in the NZF communities team.

We all buy the merchandise, we all support the team and watch the games.

Perhaps when there are hopefully more nz sides in the A League this will change, but until then, nz footballers like myself will follow the team and see it as a NZ team with a Wellington identity.


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about 12 years ago


And I want to see Auckland given another chance because I live in Auckland and I'd really like to see an authentic Auckland-Wntgtn footballing rivalry (more meaningful than the half-arsed ACFC - Nix rivalry that pops up by a few debaters on this forum. The Kingz were great. The Knights were crap. Third time lucky, with this time a decent business plan (and backing) and decent coaching staff and decent players. Before I die.

"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...

I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...

Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...

Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."

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about 12 years ago

Regarding "managing a sporting franchise and maintaining your primary market"etc:

I live in the wild hinterlands of the South Island, but this I know:  Watching your team at your home ground with your pals, every second weekend = very different relationship to the club "brand", than that generated by a harlem globetrotters style tiki-tour.




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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History

As an Aucklander, to me they are 100% the Wellington Phoenix. I love that that is the region they identify with, I hope they never take the 'Wellington' out of their name, it is important to have somewhere to call home.  I love going to Welly and seeing them on bus backs and in adshells, and generally having a presence in the town. That being said, as they're the only professional club in the country, and one that enjoys support from around the country - I totally love that they bring a few games on the road. Especially to cities like Auckland and Christchurch where they always get a good crowd.

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about 12 years ago

Anyway back to the game


Interesting game this. Adelaide have been on a bit of tear as of late. They look less jammy and more legit as the season progresses. We are in form (yeah?) and they are in form. Would have loved to have played these mugs at NYs. I've tipped Phoenix + 1 but I could see this being a draw.

I heard a mumour on radio (couldn't quite hear it) that Carlos and Kenny are subject to fitness test? Is that correct?

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 12 years ago
f.barisi wrote:

Regarding "managing a sporting franchise and maintaining your primary market"etc:

I live in the wild hinterlands of the South Island, but this I know:  Watching your team at your home ground with your pals, every second weekend = very different relationship to the club "brand", than that generated by a harlem globetrotters style tiki-tour.



Well said.
After moving from Europe in 1982 I lived in Sydney 1983-1993 and proudly supported Sydney City in the old NSL. It was my local team then.
But Christchurch has been my home since then, and I choose to support The Nix as my local A-League team, and not Sydney FC or even less the the WS Wanderers. It is a matter of local connection. For that reason I find it hard to support an EPL team - I do not feel connected emotionally to that competition. If a Christchurch team was allowed one day to compete in HAL, I might be swayed in my loyalty, but I'd rather cross that bridge when I get to it.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 12 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:

Anyway back to the game


Interesting game this. Adelaide have been on a bit of tear as of late. They look less jammy and more legit as the season progresses. We are in form (yeah?) and they are in form. Would have loved to have played these mugs at NYs. I've tipped Phoenix + 1 but I could see this being a draw.

I heard a mumour on radio (couldn't quite hear it) that Carlos and Kenny are subject to fitness test? Is that correct?

Think Kenny and Carlos are in the starting line up and Waffles is subject to a fitness test due to a niggly calf.
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about 12 years ago

That guy is on fire! Worst case, Waffles come as an impact to make one or two more goals. Ernie should not stop him because of a niggly calf.

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about 12 years ago
number8 wrote:

That guy is on fire! Worst case, Waffles come as an impact to make one or two more goals. Ernie should not stop him because of a niggly calf.



And if the niggly calf worsens then he could be out for weeks.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 12 years ago

I wanna see an Auckland team join the A League once again! Imagine the rivalry! It'd be awesome! :D


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about 12 years ago

Ok. A few wines into Friday night, and I'm seriously considering driving up tomorrow for the match. That being the case, where are we buying tickets now that Fever zone is sold out?

I know, I know, its serious!

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about 12 years ago

News might tag in with you. Mentioned on the pod he was cash strapped. That's cash issue solved without an airfare cost.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 12 years ago
Hard News wrote:
MetalLegNZ wrote:

592... not an Aucklander so that doesn't really mean too much to me.

Besides at what time does the past become exactly that, the past.

Utilising the statistics for a one off visit to somewhere to lambast the regular 'home' venues crowds is naive. By the same token we could compare the Phoenix 30k plus in the play-offs with Aucklands sub 12k last year and suggest that when you take the population base into account that is a sign that no football should ever be played in Auckland.

..and yes I'm defensive, mainly because I've lived thorugh the 09 train wrecks and have to put up with statements like that from ill-informed media numpties and the claptrap from some of our owners without having to see it on a forum that is about supporting the Wellington Phoenix.


It is getting harder and harder to defend the crowds in Wgtn though.  

Normo's coming home

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about 12 years ago

Why? Look at the crowd at the cricket today, and that's with India playing (and only ODI in Wellington this summer).

It's a part of much deeper pattern, and a lot of people here are looking at the crowd issue too narrowly (i.e. seeing it as a Phoenix problem rather than a cross-code problem).

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about 12 years ago
james dean wrote:
Hard News wrote:
MetalLegNZ wrote:

592... not an Aucklander so that doesn't really mean too much to me.

Besides at what time does the past become exactly that, the past.

Utilising the statistics for a one off visit to somewhere to lambast the regular 'home' venues crowds is naive. By the same token we could compare the Phoenix 30k plus in the play-offs with Aucklands sub 12k last year and suggest that when you take the population base into account that is a sign that no football should ever be played in Auckland.

..and yes I'm defensive, mainly because I've lived thorugh the 09 train wrecks and have to put up with statements like that from ill-informed media numpties and the claptrap from some of our owners without having to see it on a forum that is about supporting the Wellington Phoenix.


It is getting harder and harder to defend the crowds in Wgtn though.  

Our average crowd is almost identical to the 2008/9 season.
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about 12 years ago
el grapadura wrote:

Why? Look at the crowd at the cricket today, and that's with India playing (and only ODI in Wellington this summer).

It's a part of much deeper pattern, and a lot of people here are looking at the crowd issue too narrowly (i.e. seeing it as a Phoenix problem rather than a cross-code problem).

Spot on.  Phoenix poor average crowds are still bigger than what the Wgtn Lions got in ITM Cup semi-final (national game and all that).  Not an excuse, but gives context.

I know, I know, its serious!

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about 12 years ago
el grapadura wrote:

Why? Look at the crowd at the cricket today, and that's with India playing (and only ODI in Wellington this summer).

It's a part of much deeper pattern, and a lot of people here are looking at the crowd issue too narrowly (i.e. seeing it as a Phoenix problem rather than a cross-code problem).


Absolutely, absolutely, but in the past there were a lot more reasons to say why people weren't turning up.  Football wasn't good, team weren't doing great, tickets were quite expensive - all of those have been to a certain extent improved.  So the reality is people just aren't going without really having much of a reason, other than they don't want to.  Which I think is a bit of a problem

Normo's coming home

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History
number8 wrote:

That guy is on fire! Worst case, Waffles come as an impact to make one or two more goals. Ernie should not stop him because of a niggly calf.




Cursed by a niggly calf...

Big Pete 65, Christchurch

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about 12 years ago
james dean wrote:
el grapadura wrote:

Why? Look at the crowd at the cricket today, and that's with India playing (and only ODI in Wellington this summer).

It's a part of much deeper pattern, and a lot of people here are looking at the crowd issue too narrowly (i.e. seeing it as a Phoenix problem rather than a cross-code problem).


Absolutely, absolutely, but in the past there were a lot more reasons to say why people weren't turning up.  Football wasn't good, team weren't doing great, tickets were quite expensive - all of those have been to a certain extent improved.  So the reality is people just aren't going without really having much of a reason, other than they don't want to.  Which I think is a bit of a problem


Clearly it's a problem for sporting codes around the country, and I don't think that anyone has really got to the bottom of the problem. I think that's primarily because it's a multifaceted problem, with no magic cure (the kind of which you often see mentioned here - start winning, and crowds will turn up). To a point that is true - but not by as much as gets suggested. 

But I think issues such as changes in lifestyle and spending habits, and constant accessibility of live sport on television practically 24/7, have had a massive impact, but aren't really well understood at this point (both by fans, but even more importantly, the clubs and franchises). A study of these issues (and especially the pattern as it's progressed over the past 20 years) is well overdue.


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about 12 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
james dean wrote:
el grapadura wrote:

Why? Look at the crowd at the cricket today, and that's with India playing (and only ODI in Wellington this summer).

It's a part of much deeper pattern, and a lot of people here are looking at the crowd issue too narrowly (i.e. seeing it as a Phoenix problem rather than a cross-code problem).


Absolutely, absolutely, but in the past there were a lot more reasons to say why people weren't turning up.  Football wasn't good, team weren't doing great, tickets were quite expensive - all of those have been to a certain extent improved.  So the reality is people just aren't going without really having much of a reason, other than they don't want to.  Which I think is a bit of a problem


Clearly it's a problem for sporting codes around the country, and I don't think that anyone has really got to the bottom of the problem. I think that's primarily because it's a multifaceted problem, with no magic cure (the kind of which you often see mentioned here - start winning, and crowds will turn up). To a point that is true - but not by as much as gets suggested. 

But I think issues such as changes in lifestyle and spending habits, and constant accessibility of live sport on television practically 24/7, have had a massive impact, but aren't really well understood at this point (both by fans, but even more importantly, the clubs and franchises). A study of these issues (and especially the pattern as it's progressed over the past 20 years) is well overdue.



I think there is a general feeling of attendance in NZ at sporting events being "event" driven.  People go for a final,or a big game, or a one off game.  And that works for most sport in NZ - cricket one or two games per year in each city.  Sevens. Rugby, only AB tests really get good attendances, again one or two per year in a city - maybe a final or a semi final as well.  NPC attendance is pathetic.  International netball the same.  People don't see sport attendance as a week to week thing.  Partly that's driven by the structure of the competitions - all regular games are just build ups for the "finals" rather than important games in their own right.

But I think with the Phoenix that's exacerbated by taking games away.  The home season seems to have absolutely no rhythm this year - there's no narrative for people to follow.  If you commit to following a team you want to know that every second weekend you get to watch them!

You're right that it's not just one thing.  I personally don't think that crowds will suddenly come flooding back if we're winning.  I suppose it comes back to the reality, this is just entertainment - do people consider it good entertainment at the price they charge?

Normo's coming home

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about 12 years ago

good post. 

How much is a single match ticket to the phoenix?

I've often thought about it in comparison to the cinema, which is $16 per ticket. Both are entertainment for the same sort of duration. Both have overpriced food available. Both have easy ways for people to watch the product theyre purchasing a ticket to see at home (good quality on the internet for movies, or sky for phoenix). Naturally people flock to see the big blockbuster of the year (e.g the hobbit) just as they'd flock to see a finals game. 

Outside of those, we still can get 1000s through every day at the movies, while the phoenix struggle to get 7000 every few weeks. 

Obviously there are other factors such as movies being a traditional 'date activity' and it being indoors vs colder outdoors (though phoenix even got 7000 on a stunning sunday afternoon). It also probably means nothing. I've always still thought of it as an interesting comparison anyway. 


Allegedly

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about 12 years ago
Tegal wrote:

Obviously there are other factors such as movies being a traditional 'date activity' and it being indoors vs colder outdoors (though phoenix even got 7000 on a stunning sunday afternoon).


*cough* Patrick *cough*

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 12 years ago

Re football crowds, NZers in general have less interest in football than netball, league, rowing, cricket and of course rugby. Peak interest last year was 41% (1+2 on 1 to 5 scale where 1 is very interested and 5 not interested at all) at the time of WC playoff. Ave for year, IIRC, about 37%.

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History

We got a Bridge, Dotcom and some Phoenix! Auckland is what it is....

“I don’t know what we have to do to win” - David Moyes

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about 12 years ago

Today is going to be rad.


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History

"Let's Go Auckland, Let's Go!"


"And it's Auckland Phoenix

Auckland Phoenix FC

We are by far, the greatest team

Auckland has ever seen"


"My old man, said be an Auckland fan

I said..."


"Auckland's our feeder club, Auckland's our feeder club

Auckland's our feeder club, Auckland's our feeder club"

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 12 years ago

Junior82 wrote:

We're the Phoenix

And we're getting on a plane

We'll go far, far, far 

Far away from home again

We're the Phoenix, we're the A-League roaming strays

So come on all New Zealand, 'cos Wellington can't pay

Phoenix *clap, clap clap* Auckland *clap, clap clap*

Phoenix *clap, clap clap* Christchurch *clap, clap clap* 


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 12 years ago

Kiwi Hatter wrote:

Variation for Auckland

So come on the fever sing,

we want to see you win.

Yellow Fever will sing whenever you score.

This is'nt our home, we want to go h-o-o-ome.

We're the WELLINGTON PHOENIX, 

Listen, David Dome.

(and Gareth & Welnix)


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 12 years ago

I'm thinking a big scoreline on the way. Phoenix 4-1. COYN!

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about 12 years ago

FIRE UP!



Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 12 years ago

Stunning day here in Auckland. Cmon you Jaffa's lets get 20k :P

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about 12 years ago · edited about 12 years ago · History



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about 12 years ago

Actually, I read it. 


Allegedly

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about 12 years ago

4 nil to Adelaide, you heard it from me first!


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