R2 vs WSW, Sunday 7pm SS1

Lia is not a great player, and i'm not a fan of him for sure, but he doesn't deserve all the criticisms and be the designated scapegoat this season.

As i said before, he just need to get the basics right and he'll be a good serviceable player for us.

When Brockie or Ifill loses the ball, it's OK because it's their job to run at defenders and if they lose the ball there will be 8-9 players helping to defend.

When Siggy or Dura loses the ball, it's serious as it creates an 1v1.  That's why for defenders, it's always safety first.

It's not so different for a DM role, those bad passes his made will cost us goals and points, I really just want Lia to improve in this department.

In on Lia bandwagon. I love you Vinnie

Can we move the last 40 or so posts to a new "Scapegoating" thread?

I started out like that but in the last two days I have thought about this and asked 'Am I actually looking at him as a scapegoat. In some respects yes and in some respects no.

As is pointed out, when you have a *thing* about a player, you tend to go only looking at the negative and then highlight it. I did note he improved on his last 70 mins vs his 1st 20 mins on Sunday and there are stats that do support he does a job better than what we are objectively pointing out.

I guess if I look at the man that stands beside him in the exact same role (Manny Muscat) and compare like for like, Lia is not as good as Muscat. Does that mean he is poor? Not at all. If I compared Leo the winger vs Ifll the winger, Leo is not as good, but he is not poor (well he is aging now but different argument different day). I do think that the standard in the league has gotten better and Lia has not improved with it. How does a guy that was a rock 5 years ago, become the opposite today? By the same token, 5 years ago, the league had some complete hacks in it that have been shuffled on because they were not good enough and he is still playing. I also think that if you bring a game that has one dimension (and Lia does not offer a hell of a lot on attack) you really need to be a stand out at that. Carlos does not offer a lot on defence but is a standout on attack.

I think for the next game, I am going to look specifically at Lia and for each mistake he does make, look at things like 'was it a decent pass he got, was it a hospital pass he got, did he make a decent pass, did he have a better option' rather than go 'Well he is shit' and see if he is having a bad game because of his own making or a bad game cause his team mates drop him in it.

I am interested in how this goes.

I think Lia seems like a good dude; just don't think he's a great footballer and don't think he ever has been - hence why Ernie dropped him a few years back at Victory. Think he's a remnant of us picking up the scraps of other A-League clubs.

I think this new style Ernie has us playing has shown up several shortcomings in our longer serving staff. For example last Sunday they reverted to the Ricki style on a few occassions. It's a style that has been ingrained in players. Lia is just one and I wouldn't like to hold him responsible.  I think now that the real League has started it will take them 5 or 6 games to completely have it down properly. I may have criticised some of his tackling but there's been plenty of occassions when he has done a potential goal saving tackle.

Although some of it hasn't looked good, some of this new stylehas been excellent. The team overall will come right. I have faith.

Stop hiding shit players behind the 'scapegoat' tag.

:)

Vinnie - big engine, hard working serviceable DM in a disrupting somewhat hardman style.  Decent bloke.  Ricki's ideal footballer.

Manny - better at all of the above.

imho 2nd DM - should be more of a distributor and also with more in their toolbox from the box to box, ball holding and attacking capabilities. The odd goal scorer.

In my book Vinnie is fine as a squad member, backs up Manny.  Salary should be consistent with a squad member bench role.  But imho if Manny starts, Vinnie is not the ideal guy to compliment him in a 4231. 

But hey, he's what we've got; till some-one better comes along.  Ernie will get there. 

As for Brown being a scapegoat.  2nd highest scorer ever for 'Nix with 23 goals.  Only Ifill beats him.  Did more midfield work than he got credit for and got a pretty tough rap on here imho.  

hold your tongue - you know you can't use stats to support brown's cause around here.

Slightly different - Most Melbourne fans wanted to keep Carlos (they're still not happy about him leaving) and Ernie was forced out; I'd guess they would take Ernie back in an instant when Ange goes to the Socceroos.

Lia, on the other hand, and other guys like Downey - were not wanted by club nor fans at all.

my opinion is based on what I see at the game, not what some pass counting statistician wants me to know.

Hold on, I thought pass completion counted for fuck all around here? I remember shit hitting the fan when Declan Edge went on about it not so long ago .. and now everyone's like 'but Lias passing stats are good'

Lia isnt a scapegoat yet as we dont need one, it is only the second game of the season, (altho the worst start)

Commenting about his lack of skills isnt making him a scapegoat, it is talking about reality

Mods, take control of your own posts, you are the ones naming him like this

I hate stats in football. But you can hardly go "lia sucks because his passes are always misplaced" then still maintain you were right after someone brings up a stat to disprove that.

Oh and Lia sux.