Wellington Phoenix Men

R7 vs Sydney Sat 23rd 7:30pm

573 replies · 24,970 views
over 12 years ago


I'm gutted like everyone. Feel like vomiting and haven't even been drinking. But we're looking Ok away from home, and its way better than it was. Ernie will move on from Brockie and Stein together. Brockie's confidence looks shot. He was flatfooted, had no spark, and we need to try something else. Cunningham looks like he's settling. Fine goal.

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over 12 years ago
paullt wrote:
TV wrote:

Lets have Rufer or Ridenton in the mix

Drop Lia & Bertos from squad

 

I thought Lia didn't have too bad a game......There should have been earlier changes for Both Stein and brockie  who were both crap 



Why does he always try to score though, why Lia? Why?

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over 12 years ago

A tough result but it wont be long before we start getting on the right side of these games. Finishing aside the foundation is getting stronger. Nice to see Kenny stepping up.


I saw several goals like their second one  last week - by Mexico vs the AWs

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over 12 years ago

Best game bertos has had actually


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over 12 years ago
ForteanTimes wrote:
paullt wrote:
TV wrote:

Lets have Rufer or Ridenton in the mix

Drop Lia & Bertos from squad

 

I thought Lia didn't have too bad a game......There should have been earlier changes for Both Stein and brockie  who were both crap 



Why does he always try to score though, why Lia? Why?

 

yeah but was probably no worse with his efforts than stein

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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over 12 years ago

A tough result but it wont be long before we start getting on the right side of these games. Finishing aside the foundation is getting stronger. Nice to see Kenny stepping up.

I kinda agree with this assessment.  We played very well in many parts and there is sense there is plan and we are playing to that plan. A work in progress - shudder - I believe it is called. Finishing is definitely our weakness.  Anyway, I hope you are right and we start to win these games.  Too painful to keep losing liek this.

Hey you bastards I'm still here.

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over 12 years ago

Think we'll find Lia's stats pretty good - except one - and that's because he doesn't score goals. Same for Mannie. Doesn't score goals. Hernandez hasn't found the net yet. Brockie can't even hit the target right now, while Stein looks lost. That's a rather major neg. Positive is that we're looking to create much more. Cunningham looks like he's settling in. Was class.  

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over 12 years ago
Sunset Sam wrote:

A tough result but it wont be long before we start getting on the right side of these games. Finishing aside the foundation is getting stronger. Nice to see Kenny stepping up.

I kinda agree with this assessment.  We played very well in many parts and there is sense there is plan and we are playing to that plan. A work in progress - shudder - I believe it is called. Finishing is definitely our weakness.  Anyway, I hope you are right and we start to win these games.  Too painful to keep losing liek this.


I can see our team playing good football in parts and the future does look good.  Ernie has them on the right track that is for sure.  But its so frustrating to lose a game like this. Oh well, moving on and looking forward to next week
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over 12 years ago

Disappointing finish, and there only seemed to be real purpose and desire for about 25 minutes in the second half. Confidence is definitely low, but a few players stand out as being well below par

Lia is, well Lia - you generally expect the worse when he has the ball

Muscat - looks like a player who's not sure of his role, ie he should be a ball winner and give it to those who can play, but he tries to do too much complex stuff which doesn't work

Stein - I don't get the appeal. He is the worst header of a ball I have seen in pro football, and he seems on a totally different wavelength to everyone else, and I don't think it's because he's better

Brockie - he is frustrating as all hell, but you always feel like he will do something out of the blue, and is definitely way down on confidence

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over 12 years ago


One more post before I start drinking heavily. Be good to see the youngies, Ridenton and Rufer get into training after exams. Anyone heard how Boyd's going. Cunningham will start next week, while Brockie catches up on jetlag.

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over 12 years ago

Quite interesting is that most of us here have been angsting about  getting a defensive midfielder, and  who could possibly replace Tim brown....when in reality we desperately needed a striker

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
happydays wrote:

Disappointing finish, and there only seemed to be real purpose and desire for about 25 minutes in the second half. Confidence is definitely low, but a few players stand out as being well below par

Lia is, well Lia - you generally expect the worse when he has the ball

Muscat - looks like a player who's not sure of his role, ie he should be a ball winner and give it to those who can play, but he tries to do too much complex stuff which doesn't work

Stein - I don't get the appeal. He is the worst header of a ball I have seen in pro football, and he seems on a totally different wavelength to everyone else, and I don't think it's because he's better

Brockie - he is frustrating as all hell, but you always feel like he will do something out of the blue, and is definitely way down on confidence

Agree. For a while there I thought we could play for another 2 hours and wouldn't score a goal. Confidence way down. Ifill stoodup when he came on, but he's best off the bench. Cunningham stoodup when he came on, and he will start next time. Must be fraustrating for Hernandez whose game is just at such a higher level than Lia and Mannie.

 

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over 12 years ago

F*#k I am so sick of having to watch my team play on TV - 7 rounds in and they've played at home once.

Apparently some teams actually play their home games at, wait for it, home. Stupid f*#ks think that's how to build fan loyalty and give their own team the advantage of familiar surroundings and home support.

And yes I know tonight was an away away game but there are long haul pilots who have had to do less travelling than our guys. Home game next week (real home not claytons home) and then off to............... Perth. I bet the boys are looking forward to that.

Ernie is either made of strong stuff or is dumb to sign up for the crap schedule he's been lumbered with this season - thankfully I think it's the former.

On a happy note - Hernandez and Cunningham together will do some damage - Cunningham looked very good tonight.  

 

He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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over 12 years ago

I thought that was our best away performance in a very long time.  We got mugged but how often have we dominated a half in Australia like that. So many positives.  

Sydney sat off us more than almost any side this year in midfield and we looked really good - need to learnt to deal with a press.  Lia had probably his best game in 2 seasons but he still lacks quality when he gets into good positions in final third.  Needs to be phased out. 

Fenton had an impact in front third but delivery MUST improve - stil a bit shaky defensively. Ifill is on his last legs.  

Cunningham was really good - he looks nervous but that goal will help him.  Game improved for us immeasurably after Huysegems went off.  I think it's time to choose - and despite his limitations we need Brockie's goals.  We're crying out for another attacking player who can score goals but don't see any immediate solutions within the squad.  Sigmund has looked great this year and that was another really good performance from him.

Normo's coming home

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over 12 years ago

Nothing wrong with Ifill's "last legs" - they danced all over Bling's defence.


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 12 years ago

quite a bit of constructive play but its disappointing how often we are (not) testing oppo keepers. To do some hating - Caira's passing is average, Fenton can't cut a decent ball back, and Lia couldn't score in a two dollar brothel. In that first half our mid was so narrow that we were scrambling out wide every time Bojic was coming forward. We really got dicked on with two on ones, and the first goal was kinda due to that - switching it with ease. Brockie and Stein were just allowed to stay high chewing the fat.

Founder

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over 12 years ago

Siggy was solid

Founder

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over 12 years ago

Terrible way to lose a football match.

On the good side I actually thought that Ernie has got Lia and Muscat doing some nice stuff in midfield....except scoring. We bring the ball out from the back well and transition it well. The problems start when we get to the final third. When Cunningham came on it illustrated what our problem is. Stein and Brockie have their qualities, but when it comes to pace and movement they are both sorely lacking. They are just too easy to defend against and thats why we look impotent in the final third. Neither of them will go around a player or burst through on goal. They never seem to dart onto through balls. Its all too predictable and easily countered. 


 Cunningham is very quick over the first few metres. When came on he suddenly made little bursts, he got around players. He started causing Sydney problems at the back. His pace drew the foul that had Bojic sent off. Superbly taken goal as well. LOL those that said he was a dud, just go and watch some Costa Rica games from early in the season. lined Kenny's settling in problems....not easy to come from the tropics to late winter gales and earthquakes in Wellington plus his family are still to arrive. He also had SFA of a preseason. He will get better and better IMO.


I sure hope Brockie recovers his mojo soon. We have bugger all goal scorers and we need him firing. In the long term Ernie needs to clean out some of Rickies leftover players. But for now he will just have to make do. In the meantime 3 points from 6 games is not pretty. I'm still willing to give Ernie time. We are doing lots of good stuff. Today we didn;t have lady luck on our side.....blazing shots all around the goal, no penalty and then concede to a wonder goal that 9 out of ten times would have ended in row z. Keep the faith

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over 12 years ago

Im not sure whats been my painful today. my wisdom tooth coming through or our finishing. probably the latter.

yung thug

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over 12 years ago

also, we deserved that so much more than shitney. a miracle win for them.

yung thug

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over 12 years ago
austin10 wrote:

 lined Kenny's settling in problems.


Arf!

"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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over 12 years ago

Keep the faith.

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over 12 years ago

Tough day at the office. Better than the last trip over there. 


Just some thoughts from my angle:


1.Kenny starting to look alright, time for a start.

2.Thought Fenton could have moved more to the centre of the park for the 2nd goal, though to be fair the other 3 nix players should never have let the ball get to the player.

3. One of the strikers need to be benched as they don't work well together, not sure which one as both seem to be way off form.

4. Good to see a passing game attempting to be played, just need to be quicker in transition.

5. Thought it was one of Lia's better games, just a shame the goal scoring chances fell to him but at least he was in a position to score.

6. While there was a fair bit of poor choices and quality of passes/crosses. I feel that this team is going in the right direction and I am prepared to give Ernie till next season to fully get the team playing the way he wants.


Keep the faith, bloody tough in the last 12 months or so but as they say "support your team through thick and thin"

Bring on the 1st December

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over 12 years ago
crewemad wrote:

Tough day at the office. Better than the last trip over there. 


Just some thoughts from my angle:


1.Kenny starting to look alright, time for a start.

2.Thought Fenton could have moved more to the centre of the park for the 2nd goal, though to be fair the other 3 nix players should never have let the ball get to the player.

3. One of the strikers need to be benched as they don't work well together, not sure which one as both seem to be way off form.

4. Good to see a passing game attempting to be played, just need to be quicker in transition.

5. Thought it was one of Lia's better games, just a shame the goal scoring chances fell to him but at least he was in a position to score.

6. While there was a fair bit of poor choices and quality of passes/crosses. I feel that this team is going in the right direction and I am prepared to give Ernie till next season to fully get the team playing the way he wants.


Keep the faith, bloody tough in the last 12 months or so but as they say "support your team through thick and thin"

Bring on the 1st December


yep- crossing is poor- just watching Melbourne score- player goes to the by-line and then drags back with two players waiting in the box. We are great in the mid third, but poor in the attacking third, lacking movement, imagination and quality. Think Brockie can be better, got in a good position for his shot that missed, but failed to convert.
Think Brisbane and Melbourne making deep runs from quick transitions and squaring across the defence, a la sydney's last goal, a la Mexico's goals. 
Fenton looks the goods on attack, beating his man, and will put in some good delivery...Cunningham looks even better...


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over 12 years ago
james dean wrote:

I thought that was our best away performance in a very long time.  We got mugged but how often have we dominated a half in Australia like that. So many positives.  

Sydney sat off us more than almost any side this year in midfield and we looked really good - need to learnt to deal with a press.  Lia had probably his best game in 2 seasons but he still lacks quality when he gets into good positions in final third.  Needs to be phased out. 

Fenton had an impact in front third but delivery MUST improve - stil a bit shaky defensively. Ifill is on his last legs.  

Cunningham was really good - he looks nervous but that goal will help him.  Game improved for us immeasurably after Huysegems went off.  I think it's time to choose - and despite his limitations we need Brockie's goals.  We're crying out for another attacking player who can score goals but don't see any immediate solutions within the squad.  Sigmund has looked great this year and that was another really good performance from him.

Great post. Am excited about what Ernie is doing. Getting far more out of Lia than Herbert ever did. But as some-one pointed out, no real speed up top. Cunningham showed what a difference that makes. Stein and Brockie are easy to defend against. But who's going to get the 12 to 15 goals up front. Only Brockie is potentially is going to do that, so my re-think is that Ernie will probably have to stick with him. Fenton's delivery will get better. He's an improving player, but needs to start nailing it more consistently.

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over 12 years ago

Fuck this stupid game. 


Allegedly

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over 12 years ago

I posted that 4 hours ago. Fuck it indeed.


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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over 12 years ago


Man I can't wait for the season to start

                                                                        COYN    

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over 12 years ago

I think ernie needs to find some new wing backs and not converted midfielders that last goal was Fentons man.Caira is better than lockhead but stall has a lot to learn.as for the midfield something is not working we need someone who can pass and score goals like young alex rufer  muscat and lia not working.up front we need speed and  finishing brockie and huysegems just not doing the job.start kenny cunningham and Ifill or boyd up front. rest brockie and huysegems make them work for there spot in the team.Just some thoughts  I am stall keeping the faith.

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over 12 years ago

Am over the result. We're just such a better side already. Trying to play a good brand of football. We've never dominated midfield like that away from home. Results will come. Lack of pace up front is an issue, though Ernie's right post-match, saying we lacked composure in front of goal, and took wrong options. Some-one is going to pay. Gonna be hard to beat at home, even for WSW.  


 

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over 12 years ago

Unlucky. Frustration. Disbelieve. We all agree the change is visible and we like more or less what we see. It's just not clicking for goals, yet.
We all had some hard weeks, players and fans, we have get over the result as fast as possible and move on. Ernie has to work on his tactic, we have to provide a good atmosphere for a win next week. Hope when they bring home the first three points, confidence goes up and we score at will.

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History

Okay, I agree we're playing better football and that's nice to watch and we'll probably only improve with time.

So thanks to Earnie for the changes he's made already to this football club.

However some players are seriously starting to piss me off...

Right up there on the list is Muscat, who produces nothing but cheap turn overs and yellow cards, that's all about all there is to say about that guy.

Also Huysegems is our version of WSW's Dino Kresinger... Holds the ball well but in front of goal just about as dangerous as my pussycat. Actually hang on... he never gets in front of goal in the first place... Way to slow to get to the ball then if he does it's heavy touches all the way into the oppositions feet...

Hope we can get a win soon, overall we're looking better than we have in a long time.


 

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over 12 years ago
Doloras wrote:

Woah! Who is this competent footballer and what has he done with Vince Lia?


... Vince Lia after a heart-to-heart from Merrick....

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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over 12 years ago
valeo wrote:

Del Piero is a diving prick


Disagree. He is a seasoned pro who knows how to win games. May not be our honest style, but that's how Italy plays, and that's how Italy managed to progress past Australia at WC '06.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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over 12 years ago

Remember when Gareth Morgan called us out as unsophisticated for only wanting to win all the time. I hope he's reading this thread now.


We show heaps of promise, and just lack a goalscoring edge. I'd be inclined to bin Stein and start Iffs, or Kenny. Louis as a right back continues to worry me too.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 12 years ago

am close to running out of excited about the change in style. I mean we aren't Adelaide thank f...but still. Mostly I guess it's the persisting with Brockie and Huysegems when we've been saying it won't work, and Merrick himself made the change in the first game, but then didn't stick with it...

I want goals, I don't care how I want them now!



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over 12 years ago

Kenny did look at bit dynamic huh? Only real ray of hope- I'd like to see more of Kenny, Ifill, Bertos and Fenton, and less of static centre forwards...we've got some good attacking wingers or wide forwards, let's use them



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over 12 years ago

Will be nice to get back to the ROF next week. We have now played all six games this season in six different venues.....that has to be unsettling. Being at home regularly will help the guys.


I liked Ernies frank summary of the match. We should have won but just could'nt score. We played well enough to win. Kenny to start next week. Not sure what Ernie is going to do with the Brockie/Huysegems problem. They both can't start IMO, which has been obvious for several rounds now. . 


I think the Fenton experiment is going to work. Second hit out as a RB was much more promising(plus the nice little cameo for the AW's). Sure he stuffed up a couple of crosses and was out of position occasionally but he is such a gritty little battler. His pace and movement out wide on attack gave Hernandez an outlet that we had been missing so far this season. Give him another half a dozen games and I think he will be a very good addition for us at RB.


I reckon we are almost there this season. Very soon all those chances we are creating will go in and we will give some team the mother of all hidings.......

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
Smithy wrote:

Remember when Gareth Morgan called us out as unsophisticated for only wanting to win all the time. I hope he's reading this thread now.

We show heaps of promise, and just lack a goalscoring edge. I'd be inclined to bin Stein and start Iffs, or Kenny. Louis as a right back continues to worry me too.


I agree with the spirit of the "heaps of promise" bit. I still consider Ernie a good choice for a coach, and hope he'll stay around long enough to make us into a better team on the park (long term). I am thinking of "long-term" in a Brisbane Roar way, who were shaped by Ange P. into a good team, once he got rid of deadweight, and still remain so a couple of seasons later.

However, I disagree with the notion of starting Ifill. In contrast, Kenny C. reminded me of a younger Ifill, if not in the sense of Iffy's beguiling, wavy runs, but in the same work rate that Ifill showed even a couple off seasons ago.

There must be a reason that Ernie is persisting with Stein and Brockie pairing, although I do not know what it is. Ernie is paid good money to know the reason, while I am a smartass spouting wisdom from the sidelines for free, and angsting over the outcome. I will defer to Ernie's professional wisdom.

Some stated that Carlos Hernandez played well this time. I am not sure he played exceptionally well, he rides too much on his past reputation at the moment. While he's never been very mobile, he used to take at least a few shots (on target) in previous years. The fact people were angsting over Lia miscuing his shots and not saying anything about Carlos (who is supposed to be twice the calibre footballer that Lia is), is only because Carlos did not take more than one shot or so the whole game, yet I have not heard a complaint.

My main concern remains relatively low work rate of Brockie and Hernandez, and the "Lost In Space" whiff to Stein's game at present. Of these, the latter is more worrying as it may reflect a good player not fitting into the game plan, rather than a lazy player. A lazy player can have a riot act read to them, a lost player can be reassigned by a good coach.

I will go out on a limb again, and ask (again) the collective wisdom of the forum if Waffles can be reshaped into a central attacking midfielder.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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over 12 years ago

Hernandez has to give much more if we're to start winning games. Lot of hate on Stein and Brockie here, but a good chunk of their problems is Hernandez fluffing around with the ball while they're getting themselves into good positions - and when he finally does pass it, they'd been shut down. Maybe he doesn't have the confidence in their pace, but at least he has to give them a chance. This was very noticeable in the first half.

Sydney are absolutely terrible though, I don't know how they've managed to win 3 on the trot.

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