Ryan Nelsen sticks the boot into the Phoenix

Ryan Nelsen sticks the boot into the Phoenix

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4649084a1823.html ForteanTimes2008-08-09 07:06:48

I applaud and completely agree with what Ryan Nelsen had to say about the state of NZ Football in his comments after the China game...

He says some stuff that is reasonable (e.g. re Phoenix lads not released for Olympics), but on the whole it is quite a player-centric perspective. As a football fan, I have quite a different view of what the Phoenix should be about. Marius Lacatus2008-08-09 10:23:15

Some good points and bad points, good on him. I still have a problem with not releasing players for the Olympics which has been magnified now by the Middlesborough trial. I don't care if one is the prem, the other is the Olympics and the players were gutted. Royal2008-08-09 08:30:01

Agree with Marius. Surely the foundations of a successful team will over time lead to a better and more sustainable football environment in which to develop the local NZ talent.

Throw 5 inexperienced NZ players in the mix right now and the Phoenix would get thrashed every week and I am not so sure how many of the NZ sporting public (however loyal they think they are) would turn up week in week out to losses.

 

Phoenix should build the foundations, build the credibility, build the support, build the $ then invest in those fringe players that Sir Nelson on $60kpounds a week, speaks of.

 

Better still, Nelson why don't you get off your arse and play more of a role in developing these players rather than preach from afar about the short comings of your own nations perceived football predicament

 

I'm glad he spoke out because it will  (briefly) raise the profile of football in NZ - albeit in a way that is initially negative towards the Phoenix

Sure, we may have more Aussies in the squad than maybe ideal. However,the key to me is the profile of the game here  in NZ (Wellington in particular). 9200 turning up at short notice for a midweek game demonstrates that people are now interested in the game in general.

Without the Phoenix we would not have that profile, and football would have for the foreseeable future, remained out of mind with little mention in the media.

Look at the Dom Post today - almost a full page of football, most of it local.  All coverage is good, even if some of Nelson's comments are off the mark.

Finally Nelson plays in the Premiership, where a large portion of the players are not of English origin. Was it Chelsea who have played games without any English born players?

I was thinking along the same lines
Having the A league youth team certainly would of taken care of most of Nelsens gripes, and the Kiwi signings they have done seem to be good ones
The NZFC should be about developing young kiwi talent, maybe more compulsory youth spots in teams would go along way towards this.

I think there is merit to what Ryan is trying to say or at least get across on certain fronts.

What he has to be careful of is the impression of "I play in the Premier League so what do you lot know naah nah nah naaaaah nah" He has to be mindful that he hasn't necessarily taken his chance to play for his country when he has been actual able to play and that his message may come across like some toff nosed twat looking down his nose thinking they are better than anyone else. Martin Crowe used to get sh*t for speaking up after he retired because his message came across as one of his superiority and a 'back in my day' deliverance.

The message is there, I like what he is saying on some fronts, just hope it doesn't get lost in the noise.
Agent 472008-08-09 09:32:51

What perspective would you expect from a player?

Most of what he's had to say seems reasonable, and bearing in mind the 'strained' relationship that he has clearly had with NZS over the last 4-5 years it's totally understandable.

The questions he's asking of the Nix are reasonable also, given his perspective and the fact that he's voiced them should be seen as very positive.

There are various factors that he is unlikely to be aware of - from his (EPL) player-centric perspective. The reality is that this guy is our highest profile player playing consistently at the highest professional level of the sport who is giving an opinion after an admittedly brief interaction with our up and coming players.

If he's saying that there are young players in NZ football that have the potential to step up based on his involvement over the last few days with them I don't see how that can be a negative...

Don't vilify the guy for sharing his thoughts, nor for not knowing all the facts... most of us rarely let that stop us from voicing our opinions, do we?

Or is it just me?

SQ, i certainly didnt "vilify". I just made the point that what is of most importance to me as a fan, ie profile and credibility of the game, doesnt seem to be the same as him, as a player. Possibly, his view is independent of his being a player (ie it is just his view) but I think you will quite regularly find that the priorities for players are different to those of administrators are different to those of fans.

I agree Marius. Nelsen's comments reek of someone who has never been to Wellington to see the impact that the club has had on football.

No doubt he's been getting a few "sour grapes" comments from those over there who haven't been in the mix.

Easy to make those sort of comments when you're sitting half a world away in an ivory tower. I would dare say he's actually got little or no idea about what has happened to football here in the last 12 months - which has all been because of the Phoenix.

Good player, but now I think he's a bit of a twat.

i have to sorta agree with Nelsen for some of his comments but things will surly be better if we bring in a youth team next year - there are only so many kiwis that can be in the team and it still push for a championship Man_utd_fan2008-08-09 10:03:38

I'm sure Nelson's a nice bloke but he comes across with these comments as if he's  got too big for his boots. I see the Phoenix's responsibility to be acheiving the best results it can for it's supporters (?and sponsors) and in this way carving out a long-term future for itself as a club. aladdinkiwiland2008-08-09 10:19:21

For me the worrying things are the  cracks he seems to be having at Ricky is this a forewarning that he will not be available for the WC qualifiers.
As has been stated elsewhere why has it become the Phoenix responsibility for the development of  NZ football.In an ideal world  our team would only  have  Kiwis in it  but at present that would just consign us  to  the same position  on the table as last year.

tbh I think I actually agree. Queensland have players like Kruse, Zullo, Minniecon, Nichols, Dodd...

Why don't we give a chance to any young kiwi talent? Even Costa and Draper have barely had a sniff.

He is absoutely right when he slams the decision not to release players. That was a disgrace, indefensible and a huge black mark on the club.

All have made valid comments so far. I also agree in part with Nelsen in that the Nix have a responsibility to further NZ football. But I think that by being a successful team in the A-League and raising the football profile in NZ they are achieving this goal fairly well.

If we had of got a youth team they would've been all aussies and based in Canberra.

I agree with the conflict of agreement idea though. Ricki should resign from the All Whites and the club should compensate him for loss of earnings. He can't do both jobs. There should be breaks in the A League for international games, but the club (and the club coach) should persue the club's intersts.

I definitely agree that Ricky should resign from the All Whites and hopefully allow Stu Jacobs to take over... as shown by results a more than capable replacement. 

Lochead is an interesting point though. Don't forget the Nix are up for a sizeable transfer fee if he signs - and that is what all small clubs are after.

Sorry ML, I didn't mean to imply that you were vilifying, clearly you weren't... merely that it's a regular occurence across the board when anybody has a different point of view...

i think the one point to take from Ryans comments is that 1. yes he playhs in the premier league. but 2. because he plays over there, and i don't know if hes been to wellington recently, but has he seen whtat the phoenix have achieved? in a completely rugby dominated country its like making the bungee cord too long on purpose if we chuck a bunch of young kiwis into the a-league, they'd get hammered, knights all over again. end of.

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foolish1822008-08-09 11:10:38

What a jerk!  Lining his pockets with fat wads of cash at Blackburn and won't play for the All Whites unless it is something prestigious like the Olympics and then has the gall to slam the Phoenix - a club of less than 18 months age.  Message to the multimillionare Nelsen - put your money where your mouth is and set up an academy here or better still, since so many of these players should be professionals, use your influence as captain of a Premiership club to get contracts for the lads. 

The squad needs to be balanced so that it gives NZ players a look in, but also ensures that we get the results that the public expect. Every team needs results otherwise the fan base will not grow. I think they have done a good job. You could bring in someone like Peverley, but at the end of the day Hearfield is prob better. Brockie has only picked up his game recently. Not sure what the Nix could have done about Sigmund - as they werent in existence seven years ago.

The wife is giving it to me big time. ForteanTimes2008-08-09 11:47:50

Sorry, but Christ, it is spelt Lochhead.

Ricki can do both jobs - he keeps both of his employers happy, so there is no issue.

He has a good record with the All Whites in qualifying, so why should he resign.

For those of you saying he should step down, I have yet to hear a valid reason for him to do so.

Nelsen's a great player, but his comments show how out of touch he really is with football in NZ. He may have a point with NZ Football (that is terribly administred), but he is way off the mark with his comments on the Phoenix. My impression as a kiwi is that football is growing in NZ and doing better than at any point in the last 10 years. The Phoenix has been responsible for that, and if the hype can continue and the results can come, we may actually be able to qualify for another world cup.

jamesnz2008-08-09 12:34:41

Would he prefer the knights to still be around, spreading the global game to NZ and giving our young players a chance?