Wellington Phoenix Men

The Great 2016/17 Coaching Saga

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about 9 years ago

Smithy:

Steve Austin.........We can rebuild him, we have the technology.

We all want a team of bionic men, a team of bionic men, a team of bionic men, we all want a team of bionic men........

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 9 years ago

Lonegunmen wrote:

Smithy:

Steve Austin.........We can rebuild him, we have the technology.

We all want a team of bionic men, a team of bionic men, a team of bionic men, we all want a team of bionic men........

we don't need technology. Just lots of money
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about 9 years ago

So, to sum up:
- players don't care
- coaches not up to it
- good imports leaving
- no crowds
- not enough fan engagement
- travelling circus makes it all worse
- owners out of ideas
- crap stadium
- crap weather

Seriously though. Should Welnix just pull the plug if it's as bad as the forum consenus seems to think? You'd be severely optimistic if you think any of the above will change next season unless the club's sold or licence yanked.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 9 years ago

Doloras wrote:

So, to sum up:
- players don't care
- coaches not up to it
- good imports leaving
- no crowds
- not enough fan engagement
- travelling circus makes it all worse
- owners out of ideas
- crap stadium
- crap weather

Seriously though. Should Welnix just pull the plug if it's as bad as the forum consenus seems to think? You'd be severely optimistic if you think any of the above will change next season unless the club's sold or licence yanked.

Based on all the above points we should just move back to Auckland

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 9 years ago

C-Diddy wrote:

Doloras wrote:

So, to sum up:
- players don't care
- coaches not up to it
- good imports leaving
- no crowds
- not enough fan engagement
- travelling circus makes it all worse
- owners out of ideas
- crap stadium
- crap weather

Seriously though. Should Welnix just pull the plug if it's as bad as the forum consenus seems to think? You'd be severely optimistic if you think any of the above will change next season unless the club's sold or licence yanked.

Based on all the above points we should just move back to Auckland

And get crowds of 1,000 again......or lower.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 9 years ago

We have finished last or second to last 3 times out of the last 4 seasons and we're currently 8th and only separated from 9th by goal difference. That's as strong a case for wholesale changes as you could ask for. 

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 9 years ago

Luckily it seems that we only have to do as well as CCM in crowds and TV ratings to trigger the next license extension so we do have the time to rebuild the club.

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about 9 years ago

Hypothetically speaking.  If we did get Ramon.  Which players from Auckland City would we want and who don't we want to join?  I haven't seen them enough to comment.  Yours please?

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about 9 years ago

Hypothetically speaking.  If we did get Ramon.  Which players from Auckland City would we want and who don't we want to join?  I haven't seen them enough to comment.  Yours please?

only if they qualify as locals I would look at Bilen potentially as a DM (bit of a question mark on mobility though) and maybe de Vries (but I would need to learn how to spell it)

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about 9 years ago

Doloras wrote:

So, to sum up:
- players don't care
- coaches not up to it
- good imports leaving
- no crowds
- not enough fan engagement
- travelling circus makes it all worse
- owners out of ideas
- crap stadium
- crap weather

Seriously though. Should Welnix just pull the plug if it's as bad as the forum consenus seems to think? You'd be severely optimistic if you think any of the above will change next season unless the club's sold or licence yanked.

Welnix are part of the problem, their lack of apparent care for the club and lack of real investment in the home base is a massive part of all of the above.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 9 years ago

Getting a 31 year old to be a co head coach is always a massive risk, even if he's got lots of coaching experience.

bling blang blah
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about 9 years ago

you could read that as "taking the cheapest option" was always going to be a massive risk. Even if it was the safest bet due to knowing what greenie and bucks offered.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 9 years ago

theprof wrote:

Doloras wrote:

So, to sum up:
- players don't care
- coaches not up to it
- good imports leaving
- no crowds
- not enough fan engagement
- travelling circus makes it all worse
- owners out of ideas
- crap stadium
- crap weather

Seriously though. Should Welnix just pull the plug if it's as bad as the forum consenus seems to think? You'd be severely optimistic if you think any of the above will change next season unless the club's sold or licence yanked.

Welnix are part of the problem, their lack of apparent care for the club and lack of real investment in the home base is a massive part of all of the above.

WelNix didn't even accept Ernie's resignation at first - why keep a manager who has effectively told you he's given up? 

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 9 years ago

Because they knew that if they accepted it, they would replace him with his assistants

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about 9 years ago

yet they spent the money on a sham of an interview process.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 9 years ago

With 11 players off contract Welnix need to make a decision about next years coach ASAP,so whoever they appoint can be a part of the process. If they piss around like they did when Ernie left we are going to back in the situation of having a new coach working with players he had no part in signing.Because surely Des and Greenie are gone.


GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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about 9 years ago

The fact that they have no say in next years team indicates that they're out.

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about 9 years ago

This might be a naive question but does the board always make the final decisions on players in every professional club or does the gaffer get more say than the Nix do?

bling blang blah
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about 9 years ago · edited about 9 years ago · History

bennie99 wrote:

This might be a naive question but does the board always make the final decisions on players in every professional club or does the gaffer get more say than the Nix do?

The Board or their representatives always have the final say.  They have to approve the funding.  Even Ferguson talks about having more or less hassle with various gaffers during his career.  Mostly he talks about them being very supportive, but then, he was Ferguson and that was Man U.

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about 9 years ago · edited about 9 years ago · History

Hypothetically speaking.  If we did get Ramon.  Which players from Auckland City would we want and who don't we want to join?  I haven't seen them enough to comment.  Yours please?

This question is a no starter unless Ramon sorts out his coaching license.  It may well be that this has been discussed face to face with him by Welnix and resulted in the appointment of the dynamic duo ("we'll keep your seat warm for you Ramon in the meantime"), but I am not prepared to speculate further on that until I get a reliable proof Ramon is doing the correct license as we speak.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 9 years ago

Wenger might be available shortly, he's great at getting teams to 4th.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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about 9 years ago

Wasn't it reported that he'd started it?

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about 9 years ago

Mainland FC wrote:

Hypothetically speaking.  If we did get Ramon.  Which players from Auckland City would we want and who don't we want to join?  I haven't seen them enough to comment.  Yours please?

This question is a no starter unless Ramon sorts out his coaching license.  It may well be that this has been discussed face to face with him by Welnix and resulted in the appointment of the dynamic duo ("we'll keep your seat warm for you Ramon in the meantime"), but I am not prepared to speculate further on that until I get a reliable proof Ramon is doing the correct license as we speak.

That's why I said hypothetically. ;-)  Does he even want the job? How long does it take to get a Pro Licence.  

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about 9 years ago

mjp2 wrote:

bennie99 wrote:

This might be a naive question but does the board always make the final decisions on players in every professional club or does the gaffer get more say than the Nix do?

The Board or their representatives always have the final say.  They have to approve the funding.  Even Ferguson talks about having more or less hassle with various gaffers during his career.  Mostly he talks about them being very supportive, but then, he was Ferguson and that was Man U.

This is incorrect in terms of the Phoenix. The board appointed football committee approves signings, and the coaches have a place on that committee. The board don't veto or encourage certain signings, they knew that they aren't experts in the field so they appointed the committee to do that job instead.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 9 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

mjp2 wrote:

bennie99 wrote:

This might be a naive question but does the board always make the final decisions on players in every professional club or does the gaffer get more say than the Nix do?

The Board or their representatives always have the final say.  They have to approve the funding.  Even Ferguson talks about having more or less hassle with various gaffers during his career.  Mostly he talks about them being very supportive, but then, he was Ferguson and that was Man U.

This is incorrect in terms of the Phoenix. The board appointed football committee approves signings, and the coaches have a place on that committee. The board don't veto or encourage certain signings, they knew that they aren't experts in the field so they appointed the committee to do that job instead.

Although Des and Chris have said that they're just advisors to the football comity so they aren't on it? Presumably there needs to be a business case put to the board if they're going to blow out the salary cap on a marquee so there will be some too and throe going on.

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about 9 years ago

This has the potential to be the most painful job interview in football 

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about 9 years ago

Ryan wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

mjp2 wrote:

bennie99 wrote:

This might be a naive question but does the board always make the final decisions on players in every professional club or does the gaffer get more say than the Nix do?

The Board or their representatives always have the final say.  They have to approve the funding.  Even Ferguson talks about having more or less hassle with various gaffers during his career.  Mostly he talks about them being very supportive, but then, he was Ferguson and that was Man U.

This is incorrect in terms of the Phoenix. The board appointed football committee approves signings, and the coaches have a place on that committee. The board don't veto or encourage certain signings, they knew that they aren't experts in the field so they appointed the committee to do that job instead.

Although Des and Chris have said that they're just advisors to the football comity so they aren't on it? Presumably there needs to be a business case put to the board if they're going to blow out the salary cap on a marquee so there will be some too and throe going on.

I hope that one is a hypothetical too.  No marquee signing would save our season, unless it is a marquee coach.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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about 9 years ago

Ryan wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

mjp2 wrote:

bennie99 wrote:

This might be a naive question but does the board always make the final decisions on players in every professional club or does the gaffer get more say than the Nix do?

The Board or their representatives always have the final say.  They have to approve the funding.  Even Ferguson talks about having more or less hassle with various gaffers during his career.  Mostly he talks about them being very supportive, but then, he was Ferguson and that was Man U.

This is incorrect in terms of the Phoenix. The board appointed football committee approves signings, and the coaches have a place on that committee. The board don't veto or encourage certain signings, they knew that they aren't experts in the field so they appointed the committee to do that job instead.

Although Des and Chris have said that they're just advisors to the football comity so they aren't on it? Presumably there needs to be a business case put to the board if they're going to blow out the salary cap on a marquee so there will be some too and throe going on.

No they are on the football committee.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 9 years ago

Gotta assumed some sort of deal has been done for the next coach?



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about 9 years ago

Be a bloody quick coaching course to get done in 6 months or so, and conveniently timed.

Angel Berlanga is probably an A-League quality centreback, and would be useful if Rossi moves on. TAHW and Clayton Lewis not bad shouts, especially as they're Kiwis. Zubikarai in goal maybe, if Moss leaves?

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about 9 years ago

Mainland FC wrote:

Hypothetically speaking.  If we did get Ramon.  Which players from Auckland City would we want and who don't we want to join?  I haven't seen them enough to comment.  Yours please?

This question is a no starter unless Ramon sorts out his coaching license.  It may well be that this has been discussed face to face with him by Welnix and resulted in the appointment of the dynamic duo ("we'll keep your seat warm for you Ramon in the meantime"), but I am not prepared to speculate further on that until I get a reliable proof Ramon is doing the correct license as we speak.

That's why I said hypothetically. ;-)  Does he even want the job? How long does it take to get a Pro Licence.  

Apparently it takes 18 months, I remember reading that he'd started it though?

Hopefully it can be expedited, it's a part time course but with the length of our off season he can deadicate more time to it and get through it quicker.

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about 9 years ago

inafoxhole wrote:

Be a bloody quick coaching course to get done in 6 months or so, and conveniently timed.

Angel Berlanga is probably an A-League quality centreback, and would be useful if Rossi moves on. TAHW and Clayton Lewis not bad shouts, especially as they're Kiwis. Zubikarai in goal maybe, if Moss leaves?

He doesn't need to have it done by the offseason though, just by the start of the new season - and even then they can probably drag it out for a bit into the season as you can have a caretaker for a few weeks without a pro license.

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about 9 years ago · edited about 9 years ago · History

As supporters you appear to be advocating the Welnix pull the plug. Ernie could not fix it, Greeningham are struggling with the same players. Costa came back for 3 minutes before Kosta took over again.  Roy kicked out of game. Doyle suffered an elbow assault. 

The new TV deal will mean the only thing we give them is a time slot on the controller of the league "FoxSport" so we don't get to many Thursday night or games playing at the same time.

The extra player money(from new TV deal) will make any Australian based add-on team competitive.  Australian player of quality will only look at Nix as a last resort very close to the end of preseason. (Unless we get them young from lower leagues and give them time to develop) 

Ramble ramble off topic.  

We can't fix it on  here.  Get bums on seats improve NZ based income.

The Cap and our Roster stops to much competition for game day spots.

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 9 years ago

Blew.2 wrote:

As supporters you appear to be advocating the Welnix pull the plug. Ernie could not fix it, Greeningham are struggling with the same players. Costa came back for 3 minutes before Kosta took over again.  Roy kicked out of game. Doyle suffered an elbow assault. 

The new TV deal will mean the only thing we give them is a time slot on the controller of the league "FoxSport" so we don't get to many Thursday night or games playing at the same time.

The extra player money(from new TV deal) will make any Australian based add-on team competitive.  Australian player of quality will only look at Nix as a last resort very close to the end of preseason. (Unless we get them young from lower leagues and give them time to develop) 

Ramble ramble off topic.  

We can't fix it on  here.  Get bums on seats improve NZ based income.

The Cap and our Roster stops to much competition for game day spots.

Expansion of the A League actually increases our comparative advantage though because Aussie talent will be spread more thinly across all clubs but we will still be the only club who can count kiwis as locals. 

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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about 9 years ago

Not convinced Ramon is the answer,he isn't going to be able to have the number of imports he had at the moment. Is that going to have any affect on how he would be able to handle it.

Given how many goals the club shipped on the weekend seems like there needs to be a bloody good look at all things football.


GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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about 9 years ago

ballane wrote:

Not convinced Ramon is the answer,he isn't going to be able to have the number of imports he had at the moment. Is that going to have any affect on how he would be able to handle it.

Given how many goals the club shipped on the weekend seems like there needs to be a bloody good look at all things football.

and non football
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about 9 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

Ryan wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

mjp2 wrote:

bennie99 wrote:

This might be a naive question but does the board always make the final decisions on players in every professional club or does the gaffer get more say than the Nix do?

The Board or their representatives always have the final say.  They have to approve the funding.  Even Ferguson talks about having more or less hassle with various gaffers during his career.  Mostly he talks about them being very supportive, but then, he was Ferguson and that was Man U.

This is incorrect in terms of the Phoenix. The board appointed football committee approves signings, and the coaches have a place on that committee. The board don't veto or encourage certain signings, they knew that they aren't experts in the field so they appointed the committee to do that job instead.

Although Des and Chris have said that they're just advisors to the football comity so they aren't on it? Presumably there needs to be a business case put to the board if they're going to blow out the salary cap on a marquee so there will be some too and throe going on.

No they are on the football committee.

It's kinda like a director of football role by committee. 

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about 9 years ago

Blew.2 wrote:

As supporters you appear to be advocating the Welnix pull the plug. Ernie could not fix it, Greeningham are struggling with the same players. Costa came back for 3 minutes before Kosta took over again.  Roy kicked out of game. Doyle suffered an elbow assault. 

The new TV deal will mean the only thing we give them is a time slot on the controller of the league "FoxSport" so we don't get to many Thursday night or games playing at the same time.

The extra player money(from new TV deal) will make any Australian based add-on team competitive.  Australian player of quality will only look at Nix as a last resort very close to the end of preseason. (Unless we get them young from lower leagues and give them time to develop) 

Ramble ramble off topic.  

We can't fix it on  here.  Get bums on seats improve NZ based income.

The Cap and our Roster stops to much competition for game day spots.

Expansion of the A League actually increases our comparative advantage though because Aussie talent will be spread more thinly across all clubs but we will still be the only club who can count kiwis as locals. 

  No the expansion just spreads the Ozzies further over Australia and the import top up will play a bigger part. (An Ozzy from Brisbane signing for Perth is seen in better light than signing for Nix - Still playing at home)  Time slot is our only advantage to Fox at the moment. If we can survive to a club owned A-League we could be ok.  

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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about 9 years ago

Blew.2 wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

As supporters you appear to be advocating the Welnix pull the plug. Ernie could not fix it, Greeningham are struggling with the same players. Costa came back for 3 minutes before Kosta took over again.  Roy kicked out of game. Doyle suffered an elbow assault. 

The new TV deal will mean the only thing we give them is a time slot on the controller of the league "FoxSport" so we don't get to many Thursday night or games playing at the same time.

The extra player money(from new TV deal) will make any Australian based add-on team competitive.  Australian player of quality will only look at Nix as a last resort very close to the end of preseason. (Unless we get them young from lower leagues and give them time to develop) 

Ramble ramble off topic.  

We can't fix it on  here.  Get bums on seats improve NZ based income.

The Cap and our Roster stops to much competition for game day spots.

Expansion of the A League actually increases our comparative advantage though because Aussie talent will be spread more thinly across all clubs but we will still be the only club who can count kiwis as locals. 

  No the expansion just spreads the Ozzies further over Australia and the import top up will play a bigger part. (An Ozzy from Brisbane signing for Perth is seen in better light than signing for Nix - Still playing at home)  Time slot is our only advantage to Fox at the moment. If we can survive to a club owned A-League we could be ok.  

Yeah it makes us less likely to get Aussie talent but it makes every other club less likely to get Aussie talent too, because there's the same number of quality players but more clubs after them. A League clubs don't really run effective academy programmes so there's no reason to expect that more clubs will equal more talented players coming through (in fact from the sounds of it the pay-to-play model in NPL youth setups is actually driving talented youngsters away from football so there's probably going to be less talent coming through).

If say there's 9 quality Aussie youngsters ready for a professional contract one year then on average each Aussie club will get one. Add in more clubs and some clubs miss out, so the quality is spread more thinly. Meanwhile if there's one kiwi kid ready for pro football we have no rivals for his signature (as a local youth prospect) in the A League regardless of how many Aussie clubs there are.

It might make kiwis more attractive as imports if there's more Aussie A League sides, but it wouldn't be as significant because there's 200+ other football nations imports could also come from. Even if more kiwis do become imports that will at least benefit NZ football even if it's not good for the Nix.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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