Wellington Phoenix Men

The Great 2016/17 Coaching Saga

1493 replies · 413,907 views Locked
almost 9 years ago

Doloras wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

Doloras wrote:

LOL, apparently a lady on my team was doing the door at some football-related function in Wellington on the weekend, and Des and Greenie tried to get in without wristbands and resorted to the DO YOU KNOW WHO WE ARE?! routine.

Can you name the function? 

No, will ask the lady in question on Sunday, she's new to the team and I only overheard the conversation.

Why on earth would you make the comment unless you had the facts???????????

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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almost 9 years ago

Settle down, Leggy, I assumed someone here would know what the function was.


Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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almost 9 years ago

F7 is spell check. maybe F5

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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almost 9 years ago

This game is pretty important for mine, one of the problems is that the team hasn't been motivated for whatever reason, if they can get the team up for a game that doesn't matter then I will be happier with them next year.

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almost 9 years ago

Ryan wrote:

This game is pretty important for mine, one of the problems is that the team hasn't been motivated for whatever reason, if they can get the team up for a game that doesn't matter then I will be happier with them next year.

For me the real issue, and the issue we've had for a while now, is that whenever the pressure is on we buckle under it. When there is no pressure, we usually knock it around quite well. I expect us to play well in the last game.

a.haak

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almost 9 years ago

valeo wrote:

Ryan wrote:

This game is pretty important for mine, one of the problems is that the team hasn't been motivated for whatever reason, if they can get the team up for a game that doesn't matter then I will be happier with them next year.

For me the real issue, and the issue we've had for a while now, is that whenever the pressure is on we buckle under it. When there is no pressure, we usually knock it around quite well. I expect us to play well in the last game.

WHile there have been some good results this year, that record is a bit troubling.  Losing so badly against WSW is quite a big black mark for me, but then we've competed well in other games.  Difficult to reconcile

Normo's coming home

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almost 9 years ago

valeo wrote:

Ryan wrote:

This game is pretty important for mine, one of the problems is that the team hasn't been motivated for whatever reason, if they can get the team up for a game that doesn't matter then I will be happier with them next year.

For me the real issue, and the issue we've had for a while now, is that whenever the pressure is on we buckle under it. When there is no pressure, we usually knock it around quite well. I expect us to play well in the last game.

Exhibit A: Western Sydney game.

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almost 9 years ago

2ndBest wrote:

Though I think since those times, there have been a tonne of changes to the league that mean the richer clubs are far more likely to perform year after year, and the opportunity for smaller clubs may just have about gone. 

There always examples for clubs pushing above their weight, Leicester, RB Leipzig in recent years. Sometimes they are ahead with their tactics or team spirit. Some teams have all the money and still suck, look at the Manchester Teams.

We had a (mostly) shark season but we are only 3 wins behind City with all their 'superstars' and money, because it's just the Melbourne Heart with some new paint. If we have played all season more like the last few weeks, we would could right on top. I'm not giving up, we need a coach and management that brings us back to the top.

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almost 9 years ago

Who/What resulted in the loss in the first 4 rounds. 2 away games - 2 home games.

Was it lost locker room. Poor selection, poor player attitude.  

A few points in these would have transformed the year. 

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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almost 9 years ago · edited almost 9 years ago · History

number8 wrote:

2ndBest wrote:

Though I think since those times, there have been a tonne of changes to the league that mean the richer clubs are far more likely to perform year after year, and the opportunity for smaller clubs may just have about gone. 

There always examples for clubs pushing above their weight, Leicester, RB Leipzig in recent years. Sometimes they are ahead with their tactics or team spirit. Some teams have all the money and still suck, look at the Manchester Teams.

We had a (mostly) shark season but we are only 3 wins behind City with all their 'superstars' and money, because it's just the Melbourne Heart with some new paint. If we have played all season more like the last few weeks, we would could right on top. I'm not giving up, we need a coach and management that brings us back to the top.

That's a fair point.  City has only performed consistently well under John van Schipp. From the stats it is clear they were patchy under Aloisi and same under Valkanis.

In our case, we lost too many games under Ernie early in the season, and had a very mixed bag of results under D&G.

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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almost 9 years ago

sthn.jeff wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

sthn.jeff wrote:

patrick478 wrote:

Ryan wrote:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/91282122/wellington-phoenix-gm-david-dome-praises-cocoaches-record-since-taking-over

"So does that mean the pair are frontrunners to be reappointed for next season?

"What basically is going to happen is there will be the next two games and as soon as the Phoenix are out of the finals or out of the season, the club is going to move very quickly on a new coach, either the reappointment of Chris and Des, or an external," Dome said.

If they win the next two games then I wouldn't actually mind it too much.

This.

Des and Greenie's record over their first 6-7 games wasn't that great - but they've showed since that they can at the very least foot it with the big boys in the league.

I don't think they've done enough against top flight teams just yet (despite spanking Victory 3-0 twice), but two decent results against Sydney and Brisbane (perhaps 4 points)  and I think you'd be stupid to not genuinely consider them for the full time role next season.

The question that must be asked is:

Can you see a team Coached / Managed by Des and Greenie winning the League in the next three years? No matter how much I wish that it would happen I just can not see it actually happening.

That is the standard we must be setting ourselves if we want to be here in four years.

Realistically - can you see a Phoenix team coached by anyone in the world winning the league? I can't see that happening even if we get Jose Mourinho.

At times yes. I thought we were getting close in Ernies second year. At times in that season, no one in the league could live with us. Even in Rickis greatest year, at times we were pretty much untouchable when you look at our run into the finals that year.

So yes I can see it happening, just not with Des and Greenie at the helm 

Perhaps I'm being a little negative, but I thought that once teams had a few months to adjust to our game in 2014/15 they managed to work us out and we didn't do nearly as well when the time to shine really came on. In 09/10 we were definitely very good but not as good as Melbourne and ultimately couldn't beat Sydney either. So I don't actually think we've been all that close to winning the league.

bling blang blah
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almost 9 years ago

This squad was Ernie's squad, despite the work Des and Greenie did with it. Players were keen to come here because of Ernie. He has had a lot of success in the Aleague and had recently resurrected Nathan Burns career. 

Could Des and Greenie get players to come here?



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almost 9 years ago · edited almost 9 years ago · History

aitkenmike wrote:

valeo wrote:

Ryan wrote:

This game is pretty important for mine, one of the problems is that the team hasn't been motivated for whatever reason, if they can get the team up for a game that doesn't matter then I will be happier with them next year.

For me the real issue, and the issue we've had for a while now, is that whenever the pressure is on we buckle under it. When there is no pressure, we usually knock it around quite well. I expect us to play well in the last game.

Exhibit A: Western Sydney game.

This feels a bit negative so I am happy to be talked out of this, but I think the good teams have another level they can go to.  We match up pretty well when they give us a bit of time and space.  But when they put the heat on us, our support play, movement into space, pace and ball skill are all collectively a bit below the best in possession.  If they are quick and close us and we are struggling to outpace them to get into space we're always going to be under pressure unless you have very good ball skills.  No problem with Krishna and Kosta, but Finkler, Vince and A Rod collectively can get put under the blow torch.

Similarly, in transition our defensive midfield struggles just enough for pace to be a problem and our FBs and DMs have been prone to get caught out.

There were signs on Saturday that our FBs were much quicker to drop and at least one DM stayed at home - and the coaches were talking about having worked on that.  But after half time when Sydney lifted their game we again struggled to stay with their pace and accuracy in transition.  Not sure if we just didn't adjust quick enough, or there are real differences in pace there.

I thought Sydney have a big team, and they are, but when they wanted to they were at least as quick as us and, through midfield, quicker moving the ball, and on the ball.  But I have to think that on Saturday they mostly coasted, till Arnold gave them a roast at half time.  And once they had the lead they coasted a fair bit again.

We've played two of three teams in the last games that had nothing much to play for.  I'm a bit concerned if we think we're good enough and the squad doesn't need to be improved.  But having Finkler play as well as he did on Saturday and Mc G back fit makes a big difference.  Buy a very good DM and things get very interesting.

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almost 9 years ago

martinb wrote:

This squad was Ernie's squad, despite the work Des and Greenie did with it. Players were keen to come here because of Ernie. He has had a lot of success in the Aleague and had recently resurrected Nathan Burns career. 

Could Des and Greenie get players to come here?

I had wondered this too, but figure Buckingacre would have some useful english contacts.  Mind you, we might not be offering much in the way of remuneration to match lower league players expectations.

At the end of the day, if you want to be a pro footballer then why not come to Wellington.  You'd get loads of air miles.

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almost 9 years ago

Blew.2 wrote:

Who/What resulted in the loss in the first 4 rounds. 2 away games - 2 home games.

Was it lost locker room. Poor selection, poor player attitude.  

A few points in these would have transformed the year. 

The first two games were impacted by the international window.

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almost 9 years ago

Ryan wrote:

Blew.2 wrote:

Who/What resulted in the loss in the first 4 rounds. 2 away games - 2 home games.

Was it lost locker room. Poor selection, poor player attitude.  

A few points in these would have transformed the year. 

The first two games were impacted by the international window.

Thanks - so you could say the next 2 were transitioning players in to game day squad before we won the 5th.  

Think these first game are the key to a higher finishing position. (But FFA wont shut down for Int windows)

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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almost 9 years ago

Then in the third game from memory Sydney (who have proved to be the best team in the comp EVER) took 90 mins to score against and even then it was a dodgy call.

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almost 9 years ago

He might be a nice guy and do like him but sorry really have questions  about Greenacres influence or ability to get across his ideas.Lets face it he has had responsibility for our set piece plays and the attack for some time and apart from the odd exception its an that about the only thing thats been consistent for some time is its mediocrity.

Whatever is decided it has to be done sooner rather than later as the more this drags on the less players there will be and yet again we will starting behind the pack.Frankly the time since Ernie left seems to have been mostly wasted and the silence from Welnix has caused much frustration.


GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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almost 9 years ago

martinb wrote:

This squad was Ernie's squad, despite the work Des and Greenie did with it. Players were keen to come here because of Ernie. He has had a lot of success in the Aleague and had recently resurrected Nathan Burns career. 

Could Des and Greenie get players to come here?

I don't think so.

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almost 9 years ago

ballane wrote:

He might be a nice guy and do like him but sorry really have questions  about Greenacres influence or ability to get across his ideas.Lets face it he has had responsibility for our set piece plays and the attack for some time and apart from the odd exception its an that about the only thing thats been consistent for some time is its mediocrity.

Whatever is decided it has to be done sooner rather than later as the more this drags on the less players there will be and yet again we will starting behind the pack.Frankly the time since Ernie left seems to have been mostly wasted and the silence from Welnix has caused much frustration.

Don't get me started! There is not a single variation in corners. Free kicks just try to get on goal sometimes into the box. No creativity since 2007. I would no complain if we had the 17.5% (or what ever it is) chance to score from it, but we almost never do. And if Tratt is not in the mix chances are almost zero that anyone of our team get a head on the ball. For me personally, watching corners is a bigger pain to watch than VAR delays or time wasting or diving antics.

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almost 9 years ago

number8 wrote:

Don't get me started! There is not a single variation in corners. 

Rubbish, there's the one that goes higher than the stadium roof and is so loopy that no one can attack it and get a decent header on it, and there's the one that doesn't get above thigh height and is cleared by the first defender.  Variation.

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almost 9 years ago

aitkenmike wrote:

number8 wrote:

Don't get me started! There is not a single variation in corners. 

Rubbish, there's the one that goes higher than the stadium roof and is so loopy that no one can attack it and get a decent header on it, and there's the one that doesn't get above thigh height and is cleared by the first defender.  Variation.

Don't forget the one that sails clear over the box and out for a throw on the far side

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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almost 9 years ago

Yeh and TV One news ran a very similar story, but with better footage of a Nix training in the background.

Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet

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almost 9 years ago

scribbler wrote:

High profile Aussie could be looking for new coaching gig. Watford? Wellington? Is there a difference? ;)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-...

oh God no...

the idea has been floated by at least one person inside the phoenix... and it actually makes sense. FFA aren't gonna kick us out of the league if Harry Kewell is our assistant manager - he'd also help bring Aussie players to the team which we are going to struggle with now that Ernie isn't running recruitment.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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almost 9 years ago

Personally dont really like the thought of him being here.But given where we are im prepared to support it if it means we are going to get players and become genuine contenders and not just paper tigers.


GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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almost 9 years ago · edited almost 9 years ago · History

Would he really help attract players here? It's not like he's got a great career as a coach and guys would be lining up to play for him on that basis. He might have some decent contacts but that's about it. I'd still prefer Rudan who pretty much ticks all the same boxes as an Aussie ex-pro whose appointment might stave off criticism from some quarters across the Tasman. Only difference is Rudan actually has a good coaching record.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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almost 9 years ago

Would he really help attract players here? It's not like he's got a great career as a coach and guys would be lining up to play for him on that basis. He might have some decent contacts but that's about it. I'd still prefer Rudan who pretty much ticks all the same boxes as an Aussie ex-pro whose appointment might stave off criticism from some quarters across the Tasman. Only difference is Rudan actually has a good coaching record.

Whitch one likes Earthquakes, Storms and YFF advisors with short arms deep pockets as well of years of football experience to share  #TIC

  Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn

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almost 9 years ago

Would he really help attract players here? It's not like he's got a great career as a coach and guys would be lining up to play for him on that basis. He might have some decent contacts but that's about it. I'd still prefer Rudan who pretty much ticks all the same boxes as an Aussie ex-pro whose appointment might stave off criticism from some quarters across the Tasman. Only difference is Rudan actually has a good coaching record.

Good coaching record coaching the big fish in his league... Much like Ramon...

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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almost 9 years ago

We are a bit caught up in an identity crisis. On one hand, we are a NZ based club. We provide a clear professional pathway for NZ players.

On the other hand, we are defined under AFC rules as an "Australian team domiciled in New Zealand" in order to play in the A-League.   Australian players like Muscat or Durante (until he went native) are a feature of our team, and it is no different with regard to coaches.  

Kewell does not appeal to me as a coach on merit.  Someone like Paul Okon or Mark Rudan does (except Okon is struggling at CCM).

Significantly, an Australian coach (of quality / potential) would be seen as a factor in "how does WPX add to the league" discussion for those who like the superficial emotional appeal of a name, even if they can't do maths (i.e. we are stable club that does not need FFA bailouts).

Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days

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almost 9 years ago

WTF new metric? We get to boo our own coach? Get Alan Curbishley dow here. He could do a Chalton for us.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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almost 9 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

Would he really help attract players here? It's not like he's got a great career as a coach and guys would be lining up to play for him on that basis. He might have some decent contacts but that's about it. I'd still prefer Rudan who pretty much ticks all the same boxes as an Aussie ex-pro whose appointment might stave off criticism from some quarters across the Tasman. Only difference is Rudan actually has a good coaching record.

Good coaching record coaching the big fish in his league... Much like Ramon...

Still better than Kewell. And actually experienced at managing a senior side, which Kewell isn't. Sure, managing the Nix would be a very different prospect to managing ACFC or Sydney United but we shouldn't dismiss coaches for being successful at clubs where success is expected. That seems counterintuitive to me. Hell maybe we need a bit more of a "big club" attitude anyway, because our plucky underdog thing hasn't exactly been working. We might not have the resources of the big boys but we have shown we can go toe to toe with them so why hang on to the premade excuse of being NZ-based and not as rich? All that does is install a losing attitude from the start. Instead, let's get a bit of arrogance and hunger and ambition and self-belief!

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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almost 9 years ago · edited almost 9 years ago · History

I never thought I would see the day when I would rather have Kevin Muscat here but if given the choice between  him and Kewell, I would take Muscat every time .

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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almost 9 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

scribbler wrote:

High profile Aussie could be looking for new coaching gig. Watford? Wellington? Is there a difference? ;)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-...

oh God no...

the idea has been floated by at least one person inside the phoenix... and it actually makes sense. FFA aren't gonna kick us out of the league if Harry Kewell is our assistant manager - he'd also help bring Aussie players to the team which we are going to struggle with now that Ernie isn't running recruitment.

talk about eye off the ball

A fan is a fan.

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