Wellington Phoenix Men

vs Sydney FC, 7.30pm Sat

790 replies · 45,726 views
about 13 years ago

We have been truly awful at converting possession / chances into goals this season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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about 13 years ago

Bring Back Brown

Founder

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about 13 years ago

Feverish wrote:

Bring Back Brown

Coach?
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about 13 years ago

 The reality is that Sydney had a few class players that were in form.

ADP actually showed how good he is even at 38. As I mentioned last night our back 4 (just about all AW's) got turned inside out and I just could not believe how poorly they defended.

I know that everyone is angry but I believe we can win the next two games with  a change of a couple of players.


If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 13 years ago

Leggy wrote:

 

I know that everyone is angry but I believe we can win the next two games with  a change of a couple of players and coach



Fixed.
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about 13 years ago · edited about 13 years ago · History

Leggy wrote:

 The reality is that Sydney had a few class players that were in form.

ADP actually showed how good he is even at 38. As I mentioned last night our back 4 (just about all AW's) got turned inside out and I just could not believe how poorly they defended.

I know that everyone is angry but I believe we can win the next two games with  a change of a couple of players.


Agreed - have thought how lucky we've been with injuries prev seasons, this year Ifill's prob and Sanchez has cost us.  Plus Manny's hot headedness.  All three of those guys on the park, no Smith and hopefully no Lia and we will be a lot tighter.
And a bit of credit to Sydney.  We let them stroll through and failed to get tight on dP, but they made some quality assist passes and finishes.
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about 13 years ago

As much as that hammering hurt I could not help but be in awe of Del Piero. 38 years old.....what a player. Bit embarassed to have chanted "what a waste of money" when he first played at the ROF. When people talk about world class, that is what they mean and to still be doing it at his age. Apparently the youtube clip of his four goals has already had 35,000 hits...sure hope its not obvious who they were playing.

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about 13 years ago

MarcoRojas wrote:


I dont know if there is a team in the a league that wouldnt have been beaten by 4+ last night. Sydney were awesome. Sure, we could have done better, our midfield was a disgrace and did we completely forget ADP was playing and decide to let him run rampant? But because our midfield was no where to be found, defence and attack were rendered effectively useless trying to cover.

 

Was not a lot of fun carrying the banners out of the stadium last night. We were basically laughed at. Genuine sympathy shown as we looked pathetic huddling in a group for safety as we waited as long as possible before moving towards the exits. After a good turnout, it will be hard to motivate the first timers I dragged along last night to come to another game. Pity.

Sydney really werent that good. I wouldnt even say they were good.
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about 13 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

I couldn't watch the game last night but I knew the result before I got home and jumped on to read the forum and get a feel for a few things. With this in mind, and also notepad, I watched the game on mysky and could pause to make notes.

Basically the back 6 have become very dysfunctional. Forget the attack, the goals for a moment. The back 6 is dysfunctional. Leo was not sharp last night and got exposed with his positioning. On ADPs 3rd, why not force him outside onto his left foot, his weaker one rather than across goal to give him a full view and easier angle? Sigmund is woefully out of form. People said 'well he scored'. And???? How many has he been responsible for conceding - his primary role? He got caught ball watching on the first 1st goal and Griffiths was gone to goal side in 2 steps. He then gets up and rags on the guys up field... what? Also leaves the line far too often and causes us to lose shape (which everyone is guilty of). Durante was pants last night. I have been an avid supporter but I could not defend him. Was ADP his assignment cause on the the 1st ADP goal, he was marking thin air and Sigmund had to come across. How the hell does a ball bounce through the box and get to the far side for a mirror image of the the Victory goal (Culina's). Lochhead got left for dead a few times. The 2 in front of that, Lia and Smith.... Did Smith actually play? I know Lia was there because he had to conceded a yellow (as did Brockie for the same reason) because we did not transition back from corners and got caught out 4 times (Culinas goal and both Brockie and Lias cards along with 1 other that we scrambled). We played with concrete boots and a severe lack of communication in talking to each other. Our transition from attack to defend was pedestrian and Farina must have picked up on that because the clearances got moved extremely quickly up field. That is poor coaching on the part of Ricki. He still has not fixed the issue of Sigmund leaving the line so is he just coaching attacking 'total football' only at training?

The reason why we have become so soft is because of a back 6 that are dysfunctional and don't play as a unit, for each other, for the team. Is there a solution? Boxall and Hogg for a start. Are they going to be better? Most likely not. Are they likely to be playing with a crisis of confidence in their own performance either? Bertos has had 1 poor game so he keeps his spot and Durante is the captain and in marginally better form than Sigmund. At the very least, while the replacements may not be better, it says to the incumbents 'YOU HAVE TO BE BETTER AND START FUCKING PERFORMING IF YOU WANT TO PLAY AGAIN'. To not make a change means Ricki endorses the status quo. They said it hurt after the WSW game and they have done some hard work and soul searching. Thats not changing whats happening on the field. Personnel changed need to be made, even for players that may not perform better than the current lot. If only to put people on notice that you cannot consistently deliver this performance. The Black Caps do that and continue to do that because no player plays in fear of their position.


I think there are 4 parts to a game. you get lose possession and you 1: track back and 2: defend. I've covered that shambles up above. You then regain possession and 3: build an attack and 4: finish.

When we had time on the ball last night, our attacking build was actually not that bad. In some respects, the total football thing they are trying to achieve is there a little and I didn't mind us going forward. Its been mentioned a few times that our wide men need to tuck in a bit (on defense I agree) but its obvious they have been given instructions to hug the touch lines in possession because when we moved the ball across the pitch from left to right, Bertos found acres of space because he lived out there in that space. We got numerous chances and it took a workman CB to actually finish one. Stein is our best but it he is playing too high up the field and does not have the pace for a foot race. He has lovely touches and can bring others into the game nicely, but he sits too high to do so. Sanchez appeared in patches, I know Brockie got a yellow and not much else which brings me to Boyd. I did read last night that he was thought to have played well and I have to ask having watched the game: 'What did he do?' Yeah he ran around lots but was that it? How many fouls did he give away, how many of those were against Fabio? 60th min, ball falls to him, he is on an angle, open look at goal, a touch maybe and a left foot strike. NO he drags it back onto his right (cause he does not have a left) and now the open path to the goal is gone. This kid needs a lot of coaching in jockeying a man, getting his head up, choosing the right options and kicking a ball with his left foot. Fenton is much the same (although has a left foot) but I think Fenton is better and next week, I want to see Fenton for Boyd. Does this mean Boyd played badly? No, I just don't see how he got kudos for a performance where he did nothing that was of any significance other than run around. We did get shots on goal, and they were just poorly executed (a return to last year). Ifill came on and showed he still has touches but for how long and how much is the magic question.


This is our season lads. Its not getting any better. Players are woefully out of form across the park and playing very dysfunctionally. Whats the solution? Well you tell me how long a piece of random string is (twice the distance from the middle to the end) and I'll tell you how to fix the Phoenix. At the very least next week, rightly or wrongly, Sigmund and Lochhead need a rest for Boxall and Hogg, Lia will swap for Manny, Smith should change for Ifill and Boyd for Fenton and play a standard 4-4-2. Why? Because the ones that are there need a wake up call. It may be worse next week but players need to learn that accountability for performance costs you your position.I do feel sorry for one person and thats Paston because no one in front of him played for him last night and it was like his back 4 were pissed off at him. I endorse a change of his position too but not because he is playing poorly. Perhaps just a change of voice behind the back 4 may work. Could there be a difference in organisation? I don't know. Moss is a quality keeper too but a different voice may make a difference. It is actually endorsing change for the sake of change which I never do but at some point, something has to give.


Speaking of difference voices, how long until Ricki calls up BT...


Very astute JV, agree with pretty much everything you said. Especially agree about Durante (he was the most honking in the ocean of honkingness last night), and Boyd. Boyd needs to realise that the higher the level of football, the more you need to be able to do things with your less favoured foot and with your first touch. At 17/18 he perhaps still has some room to fix this and become a decent player.
As for the changes in the backline, I told News last night that after a game like this, you drop the entire backline for a week, even if it means getting dicked by 6 again.
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about 13 years ago

Junior82 wrote:

We want 7.


(But we're gonna get dicked.  i just know it)



Wow!!
:o


"Sharing rewards the weak"- Steven Colbert

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about 13 years ago

Does ADPs performance mean that people on this forum will refrain from assuming that once a player hits age 30 they are shit?

Founder

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about 13 years ago

To be fair, we helped him out quite a bit with our stubborn and consistent refusal to mark him.

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about 13 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

To be fair, we helped him out quite a bit with our stubborn and consistent refusal to mark him.

Yes it would be quite interesting to ask ricki what was the game plan to mark DP and how did he readjust that plan as the match proceded. Everyone knows that the bulk of Sydneys creativety goes through DP.

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about 13 years ago

austin10 wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

To be fair, we helped him out quite a bit with our stubborn and consistent refusal to mark him.

Yes it would be quite interesting to ask ricki what was the game plan to mark DP and how did he readjust that plan as the match proceded. Everyone knows that the bulk of Sydneys creativety goes through DP.

why bother asking.  it was obvious how much of a "plan" we had for dP.  And you can't "adjust" a non-existent plan.
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about 13 years ago

austin10 wrote:

el grapadura wrote:

To be fair, we helped him out quite a bit with our stubborn and consistent refusal to mark him.

Yes it would be quite interesting to ask ricki what was the game plan to mark DP and how did he readjust that plan as the match proceded. Everyone knows that the bulk of Sydneys creativety goes through DP.

Game plan, that's what I forgot.

 

He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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about 13 years ago

We really did miss Manny, he would have been within a foot of Del Piero all game.


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 13 years ago

He'd of broken his leg at the start of the game too. 


Allegedly

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about 13 years ago

patrick478 wrote:

We really did miss Manny, he would have been within a foot of Del Piero all game.



The way ADP was playing he would have made him look as bad as everyone else, plus he would have got a yellow/red card.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 13 years ago

*giggles*

Firstly, to the international audience watching, whilst you might think you look like a clever and ironic bunch of wits, in actual fact you far more closely resemble a bunch of ignorant hicks.


Humour bypass much?

And what's with the pic of Ernie?


"Phoenix till they lose"

Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion. 

Genuine opinion: FTFFA

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about 13 years ago

Just for your information Enzo, the Who Are Ya chant is more about trying to put the opposition player of their game, rather than questioning their footballing ability, and I HIGHLY doubt that he cared about getting 'one up' on the Fever. Completely agree with your opinion about Herbert though.


Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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about 13 years ago

I think he's far more likely to want to answer a chant like that by schooling your team at football than be put off his game by it. He's been called much worse in Italy.

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about 13 years ago

I have no problem with your blog Enzo but if that was his motivation, he would be doing that to every team every week when the opposition supporters peel him out. I somehow doubt he was going 'I'm going to teach those yellow fever guys a trick or two'

His career speaks for itself before anything he does in this league. It needs no validation or proving of himself and his ability.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago · edited about 13 years ago · History

el grapadura wrote:
Very astute JV, agree with pretty much everything you said. Especially agree about Durante (he was the most honking in the ocean of honkingness last night), and Boyd. Boyd needs to realise that the higher the level of football, the more you need to be able to do things with your less favoured foot and with your first touch. At 17/18 he perhaps still has some room to fix this and become a decent player.
As for the changes in the backline, I told News last night that after a game like this, you drop the entire backline for a week, even if it means getting dicked by 6 again.




Stupid quote tags.

I fundamentally do not have a problem with that call of dropping the back 4. The stick in the mud is a: Lia is out suspended so Manny kinda has to play in the midfield and can't really play RB. We can't leave Smith in there as a DM b: We only have 1 CB in Boxall so on those points alone, it can also support my 'well we can drop Sigmund and Lochhead but Bertos has only really had 1 bad game this year and Dura is not as poorly performed and is the captain' Sigmund is the other captaincy option but I'm dropping him so do you find another CB and make Ifill your captain? I think he can only really drop 2 (based on what we have) If we had a larger squad, then certainly a clear out is on the cards.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago

I think the referee is quite lucky that the penalty decision has been forgotten about. Haven't seen a penalty decision that bad for a long time,that I can recall. A real shocker. 


Allegedly

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about 13 years ago

Tegal wrote:

I think the referee is quite lucky that the penalty decision has been forgotten about. Haven't seen a penalty decision that bad for a long time,that I can recall. A real shocker. 


Why? Thought it was pretty fair.
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about 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

 You were the only one at our table... and it's you and Bozza.


That's a foul every single time. And an incredibly dumb thing to do (but unfortunately probably not even in the top 3 dumb things Durante did yesterday).
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about 13 years ago

Dude that was not even a foul if it happened in the middle of the centre circle so why is it now a foul cause its in the box?

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago · edited about 13 years ago · History

Jeff Vader wrote:

Dude that was not even a foul if it happened in the middle of the centre circle so why is it now a foul cause its in the box?


Arm extended across opposing player's back dragging him = push.
Push = foul.
Foul in the box = Penalty.

Culina milked it, sure, but it was a foul.
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about 13 years ago

 I don't see any of that. Admittedly there is no way I'm watching that agin but to me Culina ran in to the area, ran a wide line (obstruction) then jumped backwards into Durante.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

 I don't see any of that. Admittedly there is no way I'm watching that agin but to me Culina ran in to the area, ran a wide line (obstruction) then jumped backwards into Durante.


None of that actually happened.
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about 13 years ago

Culina had momentum going his way and it was follow through. Durante touched him, no doubt, but not with any force that added to his momentum so as to make him fall over. If that contact it a penalty, they we should bring in the tiddlywinks rule too. It would also be dire straits for any contact in the box.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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about 13 years ago

el grapadura wrote:

Tegal wrote:

I think the referee is quite lucky that the penalty decision has been forgotten about. Haven't seen a penalty decision that bad for a long time,that I can recall. A real shocker. 


Why? Thought it was pretty fair.


Never a penalty.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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about 13 years ago

Hard News wrote:

 I don't see any of that. Admittedly there is no way I'm watching that agin but to me Culina ran in to the area, ran a wide line (obstruction) then jumped backwards into Durante.


I back this view, I watched the incident two or three times - once in slow mo, Dura and Culina were both jockying for the ball, Culina grabbed Dura as much as the other way around, would never have been called in midifeld so should not have been called for there. The ref has to ask was Culina going for the ball - doubtful, he moved toward Dura and the ball was goiing the other way. If it was outside the box a few other factors come in to it but it was never a foul.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 13 years ago

Jeff Vader wrote:

Culina had momentum going his way and it was follow through. Durante touched him, no doubt, but not with any force that added to his momentum so as to make him fall over. If that contact it a penalty, they we should bring in the tiddlywinks rule too. It would also be dire straits for any contact in the box.


It was a little bit more than a touch (Durante held his arm too initially), but more to the point it's the nature of the contact - it was meant to obstruct the player from getting to the ball, we're not talking here about incidental contact which happens during the course of a game. The LotG imply fairly clearly the difference between the two.
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about 13 years ago

 in which case Culina's contact on Dura was obstrution first. Dura technically had posession, and Culina continued his run into Dura.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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about 13 years ago

I was thinking it was a very harsh foul to give us to begin with, then almost went into shock when saw the referee point to the spot. You honestly saw it and thought penalty straight away? 

That would not have been given a foul in the middle of the pitch. 

As for asking why someone thought there wasn't a penalty - because there is no foul. The better question is to ask why it is a penalty,which I see you've done. 

One of those agree to disagree things I suppose. Am just glad to have deflected discussion away from "we're shite" for a few minutes.


Allegedly

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about 13 years ago

theprof wrote:

 in which case Culina's contact on Dura was obstrution first. Dura technically had posession, and Culina continued his run into Dura.


No, the ball was loose and within playing distance of Culina, no obstruction there.
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