Wellington Phoenix Men

Was - Phoenix Transfer Speculation

3999 replies · 239,887 views
almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:


I see Dargo has signed for Dundee now anyway...
�
Bring big Nishy to Wellington instead!


Craig Dargo certainly has NOT signed for Dundee.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Colvinator wrote:
Steve-O wrote:


I see Dargo has signed for Dundee now anyway...
 
Bring big Nishy to Wellington instead!


Craig Dargo certainly has NOT signed for Dundee.
 
 
No source I note so probably no more than a rumour then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:

Colvinator wrote:
Steve-O wrote:


I see Dargo has signed for Dundee now anyway...
�
Bring big Nishy to Wellington instead!


Craig Dargo certainly has NOT signed for Dundee.

�
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No source I note so probably no more than a rumour then.


Yea. All Dundee sources are saying no to this, at this stage anyway. Also, you can tell the article is wrong because it says Dundee signed him on a two-year deal, but Dundee are only signing players on one-year contracts.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Piney saying the trialists are jack hingert and a Vanuatu international.

Both fall under youth category.

I would take hingert to be honest. Think he can play either side and is relatively skillful on the ball from what ive seen of him. And a youth player with A-League experience could be useful. I hope he gets a really good look in.

Not sure about using a foreign spot on a yoof player though? but ya neverknow how good this other guy could be?


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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jack Hingert would be a great signing! he's also in the aussie under20s aint he? will that affect any of the season.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Personally a little disappointed that once again our youth spots may go to overseas guys -  I know people will disagree with me but I do think that all things being equal these spots should be reserved for kiwis, especially now that NZF is funding the youth squad.

Normo's coming home

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agree wtih Dean - signing a player so young and from overseas is a risk, they may not settle, adapt to the conditions etc.
 
I know that can hapen to a senior pro as well, but atleast they might have the experience to cope with it.
 
The NZ youth players used so far have done pretty well generally, Barbs ( i think was originally a youth signing) Marcos and Musa who all though looking out of his depth was a step above anything else at the Oceania u20's.
 
Will be pretty disappointed - unless he turns out to be class!
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Personally a little disappointed that once again our youth spots may go to overseas guys -� I know people will disagree with me but I do think that all things being equal these spots should be reserved for kiwis, especially now that NZF is funding the youth squad.


So much this. However if do we have a limit on youth spots? Why not be looking to sign 3 kiwi youth (Musa, Lovemore etc) and then a couple of foreigners to compete with too.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah i generally agree that the youth spots should be kiwi. I also dont think we need to limit ourselves to only signing 3 of them.

But I think a guy like Hingert would be good as he has A-League experience and is versatile enough and will put pressure on Lochhead and Downey which is what we need.


I also think Musa should be re-signed unless we can find someone a lot better, and I can only think of Rowe currently?


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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If the youth player is going to be pushing for a first team starting spot i am happy for him to be foreign. If not, there is no reason not to have a NZ player.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I hope his "host family" isn't Club K.

Its no longer a problem.

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Yep, youth spots MUST be Kiwis. There are too many aussies in the team and the whole point of the Phoenix is to ultimately improve the quality and quantity of the All Whites we currently have and that are coming through.

Ricki has to adopt more of this mentality and take more risks in this direction. Being so damned conservative won't progress us any faster. I don't care who disagrees. If this isn't the rationale behined the Phoenix, then something is fundamentally wrong.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
milkweedman wrote:

Yep, youth spots MUST be Kiwis. There are too many aussies in the team and the whole point of the Phoenix is to ultimately improve the quality and quantity of the All Whites we currently have and that are coming through.


Ricki has to adopt more of this mentality and take more risks in this direction. Being so damned conservative won't progress us any faster. I don't care who disagrees. If this isn't the rationale behined the Phoenix, then something is fundamentally wrong.

Really? I think having a professional football team in NZ was the reason. Improving the All Whites is nice side benefit. Plus, OFC backing is one of the main reasons of our existence and I'm sure they would like some more OFC representation in the Phoenix - not that they (or NZF) would put any pressure on Terry.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
milkweedman wrote:

Yep, youth spots MUST be Kiwis. There are too many aussies in the team and the whole point of the Phoenix is to ultimately improve the quality and quantity of the All Whites we currently have and that are coming through.

Ricki has to adopt more of this mentality and take more risks in this direction. Being so damned conservative won't progress us any faster. I don't care who disagrees. If this isn't the rationale behined the Phoenix, then something is fundamentally wrong.
 
Really?....
For me i couldn't care less about where the Phoenix players are from,
As a New Zealander it's a nice side effect, but as a Phoenix fan, I would be just as happy to see guys coming through our youth team to play for Australia, Vanuatu or any other nation for that matter.
 
Obviously NZF helping to fund the youth team should be taken into account, but at the end of the day the players which best suit the needs of the club should be signed and we shouldn't limit ourselves just New Zealanders, if there are better options availiable.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
milkweedman wrote:

Yep, youth spots MUST be Kiwis. There are too many aussies in the team and the whole point of the Phoenix is to ultimately improve the quality and quantity of the All Whites we currently have and that are coming through.

Ricki has to adopt more of this mentality and take more risks in this direction. Being so damned conservative won't progress us any faster. I don't care who disagrees. If this isn't the rationale behined the Phoenix, then something is fundamentally wrong.
 
I thought the whole idea of the phoenix was to have a NZ professional team in the A-league..also they are defined as being a profesional team based in Nz playing in an australian league
paullt2011-06-14 12:19:35

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Sorry bullion was obviously writting as you posted

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

so how many kiwis have we had in the squad for each season?  I'd like to see more kiwi youth getting a shot, rather them have income than some aussie rejects.

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So, when we were within millimeteres of signing Matthew Leckie a couple of years back we should have said 'no thanks' ?
 
 

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

But he isn't an aussie reject

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
So, when we were within millimeteres of signing Matthew Leckie a couple of years back we should have said 'no thanks' ?
�

�


Don't forget we were after Robbie Kruse.

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think the aim is to have the best team available to win the league. If that means kiwi talent great, if not then too bad.

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oceanic6 wrote:
But he isn't an aussie reject
 
No, but at that stage he hadn't played an A-League game so hadn't been picked up by any Aus sides.  Think a young Manny Muscat.
 
Personally I'm rabidly pro NZ youngsters but if we missed out on a player of Leckie's skill because he's an Australian we're not doing what is best for the clubs performance. 
 
If you have to balance an equivalent talent or potential then take the local but if you have an Australian option who is significantly better then for the success of the club it has to be considered.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Why hasn't Clapham been signed?
 I hope Ricki is waiting to raid the U17s Junior All whites playing stocks immediately after the World cup in Mexico to fill the 3 under 20 positions.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
milkweedman wrote:
 I hope Ricki is waiting to raid the U17s Junior All whites playing stocks immediately after the World cup in Mexico to fill the 3 under 20 positions.
 
Why not the U20s?
 
Edit Ninja'ed. I do think we under leverage the advantage we have of being the only NZ team in the comp along with the special rules. What is the age level for youth players? It's under 23 isn't it?
rjmiller2011-06-14 13:59:37
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Because having three 16 year old's who have barely reached puberty in the side is really going to help the quality of the team.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Oceanic6 wrote:
But he isn't an aussie reject
 
No, but at that stage he hadn't played an A-League game so hadn't been picked up by any Aus sides.  Think a young Manny Muscat.
 
Personally I'm rabidly pro NZ youngsters but if we missed out on a player of Leckie's skill because he's an Australian we're not doing what is best for the clubs performance. 
 
If you have to balance an equivalent talent or potential then take the local but if you have an Australian option who is significantly better then for the success of the club it has to be considered.
Same camp as me. Unfortunately what you propose mostly does not happen. It's become win at any cost instead of having some balance between having a local player quota AND success happening as a result of that, given time.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Rubbish.
 
Last year Musa and Marco were two of our three U20 players, one signed from a few NZFC starts and one without any games at that level.  One recovered from injury to become a mainstay of the starting line-up and the other developed to the point where he's one of the first three names on the teamsheet for the U20s and the sides captain.
 
As for Clapham.  He's not good enough to force Leo or Ifill out of the side (or last year Marco) so he'd be competing with Daniel for a spot on the bench.  Is it better for NZ football to have him playing each week or like David Mulligan not playing for two years?

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ditto Under 20s.
Musa and Marco were great, but there's not enough of them in the first 11.
The reserves was a great experiment that will bear fruit eventually. They were very competitive when I saw them play Manawatu. I hope the Reserves are persevered with. It's the way forward.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Further to that, every season the club have between 30 and 40 players trial or train with the team - more last year with the ASB Challenge - of that number at least 2/3rds are kiwi's.  Just because some overseas options are coming to trial does not in anyway mean kiwi's won't be included.
 
Look at the reports from yesterday alone which had Michael White and others all involved at training.

As for Brian (the Vanuatan) part of the Phoenix brief is to help Oceania football, and Brian already plays in Wellington so it's hardly a major step to bring him in for a run.  Last year Reg Davani - the Pacific Ifill - spent most of pre-season at the club, the year before Joachim Rande played against Melbourne Victory.  Roy Krishna has been in for two trials.
 
In no way does someone training with the Phoenix mean they are all but signed.  I'm lead to believe a current NZ U20 has all but signed for the coming season so how about we not jump to conclusions...

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
milkweedman wrote:
Ditto Under 20s.
Musa and Marco were great, but there's not enough of them in the first 11.
The reserves was a great experiment that will bear fruit eventually. They were very competitive when I saw them play Manawatu. I hope the Reserves are persevered with. It's the way forward.
 
If they're good enough they will play in the first eleven. 
 
This is covered every three months on here but Ben Sigmund was the standout NZ player in the NZFC and he had to work like a demon to become an A-League player once he made the step up.. 
 
Also remember that last season of the ASB Premiership was only the second time in about 10 seasons the leading goalscorer in domestic football was a kiwi.
 
Just saying they should be in there doesn't make them good enough and the Phoenix first priority is to win, get crowds, promote the game and be from there they can become financially viable. 

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
 This is covered every three months on here but Ben Sigmund was the standout NZ player in the NZFC and he had to work like a demon to become an A-League player once he made the step up.
 
And last season he was the coaches player of the year. I suspect that given the opportunity to train full time in a professional enviroment, we have a number of players with the capacity to improve immensely and be comfortably up to a-league standard.
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
I'm lead to believe a current NZ U20 has all but signed for the coming season


I'm going to take a wild guess - Lovemore.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I can only offer a no comment.
 
rjmiller wrote:
And last season he was the coaches player of the year. I suspect that given the opportunity to train full time in a professional enviroment, we have a number of players with the capacity to improve immensely and be comfortably up to a-league standard.
 
A huge punt to do so though.  There isn't an NZ player in the ASB Premiership who stands out like Siggy used to.
Hard News2011-06-14 14:25:28

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oceanic6 wrote:
so how many kiwis have we had in the squad for each season? 
 
2007/08: Paston, Christie, Lochhead, Brown, Coveny, Smeltz, Old, Draper, Moss, Barbarouses, Spoonley - 11
 
2008/09: Paston, Christie, Lochhead, Brown, Coveny, Smeltz, Draper, Moss, Barbarouses, Bertos, Mulligan, Sigmund - 12
 
2009/10: Paston, Lochhead, Brown, Barbarouses, Bertos, Mulligan, Sigmund, Rojas - 8
 
2010/11: Paston, Lochhead, Brown, Bertos, Sigmund, Rojas, Musa, Lovemore, Elliott - 9
 
2011/12: Paston, Lochhead, Brown, Bertos, Sigmund - 5
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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
By the looks of that, there is an inverse relationship between the number of NZers in the team and where we finish on the table, i.e. the less Kiwis we have, the better we do.

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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almost 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
we have a number of players with the capacity to improve immensely and be comfortably up to a-league standard
I believe the above  statement to be true because a couple of years ago a quote from one of the Little brothers about the NZFC said something similar to: "in this league (NZFC) there are players that are good enough to be full-time professionals, some others that could be part-timers and others that would never make it in professional football in the UK.
That statement and also the progress made at the Club World Cup by Auckland city and Waitakere in beating fully professional sides from around the world leads me to believe that there are indeed more players in the NZFC that could step up given a full time professional training environment. Raiding the U17s and U20 should be compulsory too!
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