Being a little bit selfish AW wise but I want Pounds out of NZ asap and in the academy of a top side (Prem, Bundes etc). With his raw talent that will help him more then another couple of seasons in Wellington. I can see him easily impressing and quickly making a name for himself like Wood 16 years ago.
Supporter of the world's best football teams: Waikato..., Kingz FC, NZ Knights, The Nix, The Argyle & of course the All Whites
I haven't been that impressed by Pounds personally.
Some ok touches here and there, but his touch is very heavy and when running with the ball often heads into dead ends.
GSR excites me more - his goal for the Weenix last week was quality. A run from half way and then hitting it top bins from 25 yards out. Top notch.
Maybe your hard to impress not many people i have spoken to who havnt been impressed with what someone his age has shown. Every senior Nix player i have spoken to about youth players has mentioned him by name as having plenty of potential. Bally rates him very highly, and along with GSR i hope we get to see them both for abit longer playing for the Nix.
Prior to the Brisbane game I was pretty unimpressed with LBS but even I have to say he did well in that game.
But he still should not be relied upon to start games next season at all. If we see him starting games next season then what that means is we are not a football team, we are instead primarily a shop window to sell talent from the academy.
Prior to the Brisbane game I was pretty unimpressed with LBS but even I have to say he did well in that game.
But he still should not be relied upon to start games next season at all. If we see him starting games next season then what that means is we are not a football team, we are instead primarily a shop window to sell talent from the academy.
LMAO Not a football team what because we give a young player a start. You have to be joking. Thats rubbish there is plenty of room for a young player to progress greatly in a short period of time with fulltime training and coaching. You seem to forget him and some of the others have only just started the type of training you get in a pro environment. Would imagine their development will speed up as they get used to it. Me i will be disappointed if he dosnt get to start some games.
I will clarify that i think he is talented and has a lot of potential but you simply do not see many 17 year olds starting week in, week out in top-flight professional leagues for a reason. He is not yet good enough or consistent enough to deliver what is needed at this level. We should not be expecting him to start games next season. We should have sufficient quality attackers that LBS can be an impact option, and sure, if we have injuries etc he can start a game here and there, but if he is one of our very best attackers next season then I don't think we will be in the top 6 next May either.
I will clarify that i think he is talented and has a lot of potential but you simply do not see many 17 year olds starting week in, week out in top-flight professional leagues for a reason. He is not yet good enough or consistent enough to deliver what is needed at this level. We should not be expecting him to start games next season. We should have sufficient quality attackers that LBS can be an impact option, and sure, if we have injuries etc he can start a game here and there, but if he is one of our very best attackers next season then I don't think we will be in the top 6 next May either.
Have you seen our league? Top flight professional league??
Mate, there are teens starting regularly in the Premier League. You should not be clutching your pearls that there is a teen starting for us in the Aleague 🤣
Maybe at the start of the season he wasnt good enough to start but the kid is improving so fast i can see it happening next season.
He hasn’t even had a proper full ALM pre season yet. It impossible to say now whether he will be good enough to be a regular starter next season. LBS’s main focus was BMX racing until about 2 years ago
Prior to the Brisbane game I was pretty unimpressed with LBS but even I have to say he did well in that game.
But he still should not be relied upon to start games next season at all. If we see him starting games next season then what that means is we are not a football team, we are instead primarily a shop window to sell talent from the academy.
Agree with this, though the last bit is kinda firey. The relied upon part though is on the money.
It felt this season A LOT that rather than put out the best team to win the game, Italiano was playing the kids so he could say he was developing talent. He played Walker and Brooke-Smith too often. I don’t think it’s helped their development. Look at how we protected Surman and Paulsen, and how we are protecting GSR now. It’s better for them to figure out their games at a lower level and arrive as better developed players.
It feels to me like these players were being used partly to protect Italiano from our poor results. And ironically I don’t think it does that much for their development. It risks making them more conservative, less confident footballers.
And it doesn’t do much for the fans either, putting on players who aren’t properly ready for this level.
It should be a tough fight for every Phoenix cap, not simply something players from the reserve team get because they came through the Phoenix system. It shouldn’t be we’ve got 9 players, get a couple more.
Kosta and Marco getting minutes meant they were special talents and ready to be there. Marco made a couple of sub appearances and then signed an import contract at the Victory. Kosta went from the Nix to Brisbane and became their top scorer.
I want to see our young players demanding their spot because they’re ready to play, not because it’s good for their development or some other reason.
Prior to the Brisbane game I was pretty unimpressed with LBS but even I have to say he did well in that game.
But he still should not be relied upon to start games next season at all. If we see him starting games next season then what that means is we are not a football team, we are instead primarily a shop window to sell talent from the academy.
Agree with this, though the last bit is kinda firey. The relied upon part though is on the money.
It felt this season A LOT that rather than put out the best team to win the game, Italiano was playing the kids so he could say he was developing talent. He played Walker and Brooke-Smith too often. I don’t think it’s helped their development. Look at how we protected Surman and Paulsen, and how we are protecting GSR now. It’s better for them to figure out their games at a lower level and arrive as better developed players.
It feels to me like these players were being used partly to protect Italiano from our poor results. And ironically I don’t think it does that much for their development. It risks making them more conservative, less confident footballers.
And it doesn’t do much for the fans either, putting on players who aren’t properly ready for this level.
It should be a tough fight for every Phoenix cap, not simply something players from the reserve team get because they came through the Phoenix system. It shouldn’t be we’ve got 9 players, get a couple more.
Kosta and Marco getting minutes meant they were special talents and ready to be there. Marco made a couple of sub appearances and then signed an import contract at the Victory. Kosta went from the Nix to Brisbane and became their top scorer.
I want to see our young players demanding their spot because they’re ready to play, not because it’s good for their development or some other reason.
This is spot on! All of the players that we have successfully on sold i.e. Paulsen, Old and Surman, to the best of my knowledge went through the full u20 cycle playing for the Reserves. They may have been training with the 1st team but did not have contracts. Only thereafter were they signed, got limited minutes in 1st year out of Reserves and then really nailed down their spots afterwards. I really don't think we have done these kids any favours by pushing them too quickly, and placing unrealistic expectations on them Who among the 05/06 kids can we say have really developed this season? Can't help feeling that by spending 2 full years with Greeny playing decent minutes in CL/NL and even training with the 1st team would have been so much better for their development.
Prior to the Brisbane game I was pretty unimpressed with LBS but even I have to say he did well in that game.
But he still should not be relied upon to start games next season at all. If we see him starting games next season then what that means is we are not a football team, we are instead primarily a shop window to sell talent from the academy.
Agree with this, though the last bit is kinda firey. The relied upon part though is on the money.
It felt this season A LOT that rather than put out the best team to win the game, Italiano was playing the kids so he could say he was developing talent. He played Walker and Brooke-Smith too often. I don’t think it’s helped their development. Look at how we protected Surman and Paulsen, and how we are protecting GSR now. It’s better for them to figure out their games at a lower level and arrive as better developed players.
It feels to me like these players were being used partly to protect Italiano from our poor results. And ironically I don’t think it does that much for their development. It risks making them more conservative, less confident footballers.
And it doesn’t do much for the fans either, putting on players who aren’t properly ready for this level.
It should be a tough fight for every Phoenix cap, not simply something players from the reserve team get because they came through the Phoenix system. It shouldn’t be we’ve got 9 players, get a couple more.
Kosta and Marco getting minutes meant they were special talents and ready to be there. Marco made a couple of sub appearances and then signed an import contract at the Victory. Kosta went from the Nix to Brisbane and became their top scorer.
I want to see our young players demanding their spot because they’re ready to play, not because it’s good for their development or some other reason.
Surman played 18 games (14 as starts) as a 17-18 yr old in a season where we conceded 9 more goals than we have so far this season (with one more game to go in this current season). For context, LBS has 3 starts (13 appearances) and Walker 4 starts (23 appearances) - lets not forget that our more senior attackers we started the season with (Rojas and Cola) and signed mid-season (Chico) have not been available, and Walker has played as a WB at times because LKH missed 8 games due to injury. I'm not sure who else in the squad with more experience and is not injured can play as wide attacker. GSR has also been injured this season, missing 9 games, and has played with the reserves these past couple of weeks to help build his fitness so that he may be available for this last game.
Yes GSR hasn't been 'protected' he's been injuried.
And as above Surman wan't protected either, debuting 2021/22 then the next season completely on the outer with Talay. Nikko Boxall even being signed to play ahead of him. Surman quite down on the whole situation, and looking at his options to leave the Phoenix, until Italiano/Griffiths came in.
Should Paulsen have become the Nix starting GK earlier, with Sail's form so patchy in his last season? ie was he held back maybe too long?
At the end of the day I'd trust those within the club to get that tricky balance of when to debut young players, give them right amount of mins for their development, when to send them back to the Reserves etc etc mostly right. I'd trust them to get it right more often than keyboard warriors who have never been to a Nix training, seen the kids training day to day, have all the data on their strength & conditioning etc etc.
I'd also say the Nix take the care of their young Academy players pretty seriously. Certainly better than alot of overseas clubs in very cut throat environments, with a scatter gun approach. Young players either sinking or swimming, the ruthless clubs with the rationale that amongst the chaff they will find some cheap gems.
Chiefy's hand to play big mins for the Wenix grads this season, has been forced by many long term injuries plus yes his decision wrongly or rightly to let Ball, OVH and Al-Taay go.
Reading AV's article on Auckland's success, there is big difference in the stats between mins the Nix have had injuried players unavailable verus AFC. Maybe next season it will be different.
Just dont get some of the stuff some are throwing out there with little to back them up. Would love to hear from some of those throwing false facts out just who Chief was meant to play from the squad in place of the youth players. Yes maybe they shouldnt have let guys go but they did and once that happened there just wasnt the depth to avoid playing the young guys. The list of injured and sick is long just want to hear people throw out some names as who should have played instead of the youth. Maybe some should check the injury list before suggesting some players are being protected.
IMO LBS is a rare talent, potential matchwinner. Can beat players, dribble out of tight spaces, is strong, skilful and very comfortable on the ball. Should have been a regular starter this season. Age is secondary (in both senses!)
IMO LBS is a rare talent, potential matchwinner. Can beat players, dribble out of tight spaces, is strong, skilful and very comfortable on the ball. Should have been a regular starter this season. Age is secondary (in both senses!)
Have looked back at u17 player who played a bunch of minutes straight away. There aint many. Probably because fitness, physically, and mentality isn't there.
Irankunda was 15/16 in the 21/22 season. Played 200 minutes in 13 game. All subs appearances. Next season was 22 games and 583 minutes.
Of all those who debuted aged under 17, only 2 players have played more games in their debut season. Haine Eame 19 games and 1,004 minutes this season. And Jacob Italiano 16 games and 1041 minutes in 17/18 season.
LBS is currently at 13 games and 423 minutes. And remember he hasn't come through a professional academy like those others.
I am old enough to remember a Melbourne Victory game where young Robbie Kruse was getting persistently fouled by the opposition (he was as slightly built as Ishige then). After a fourth or fifth crunching tackle by the same opposition midfielder that left Kruse on the ground in agony, I recall the captain (Kevin Muscat) eventually fouling the offending party once and well. Yes, he got a red card for it, but Kruse lived on to play another day. Protection of young players by the referees is I think a bit different these days, and thankfully so.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
But yeah his mins need to be managed and he'll need an arm around him when games don't go so well, he makes an error etc
Case in point that bad giveaway that lead to Auckland scoring in Derby 3, not long after he himself had scored a lovely goal. He woulkd have been down about that moment. I'd be confident the Nix staff, and older players will look after him.
Luke Brooke-Smith [Number 7, age 15] makes his senior debut for Cambridge against Papamoa / June 2023 / Photo: Cambridge FC
martinbninixinOi Oi Edgecumberereg22+1WanderingSheep
11 months ago
AucklandPhoenix
Agree with the sentiment but a couple of points.
1: We are playing 7 defenders in a mish mash system. These are badly needed attacking players.
2: Who exactly of the other attacking players we have are demanding that they should play?
Dammit. I wrote a fairly long reply to this but just lost it all.
Surman was a player who was ready. Him competing for a place, perhaps in part resulted in what we saw him and Paulsen produce in our best ever season. He’s shown that same composure as he’s gone to higher levels.
What you are saying is exactly my point. We could have signed Patterson, Harrison Sawyer, a Litfin type signing- local short term cover…we went into the season with injury prone guys, older guys and then let 2 younger guys and a guy who’d run through walls go. The squad balance and our slow reaction and lack of anticipation before the injury crisis, is THE criticism of the season. Chief doesn’t get let off the hook for that.
We shouldn’t be giving youth players at 16/17 playing time because, oopsy, we haven’t signed anyone else. Especially with the dysfunctional squad and year.
On top of this on the bench for two months at various times we had a mixture of Conchie, Ishige, Piper, Nagasawa, Rojas, Supyk and Rufer all of whom should have been used ahead of the younger players in this case.
There’s a big difference between giving the kids a taste of the action and them making themselves impossible to drop, and a team with mostly otherwise settled, and being required and relied upon to get us through 90 minutes with 11 on the park.
Maybe this isn't what you mean but from this season all I see who has left of staff (for the men, and was only announced 4 days ago) was Head of football operations Jake Pipernufc_nz
Someone was telling me today about how most of the technical coaches have left?
I can’t be bothered going back and seeing if this has been talked about, but is this true?
Rollo - "are all the contracted visa players coming back next season?" Chiefy - "potentially"
And Kosta not re-signing does sound a real possibility. So I did Pierre a disservioce scoffing at his Kosta to MAC rumour. It could well happen, though still think it would a risk for Kosta to do that leading into the WC.
Despite everything, Barba has had 2 very good goal scoring seasons under Italiano and forced his way back into the AWs.
Gonna be one of the more interesting off seasons in the history of the club.
"How shark must you be, it's only 1-0" "You're nothing special, we lose every week" And most to the point "We're fudgeing shark, we're fudgeing shark, we're fudgeing shark"
As frustrating as this season has been, we are one of the clubs that were forced into playing far more youth minutes than we would have if everyone was fit. That does lead to a decent starting point for next season. I would be getting rid of all imports bar Oluwayemi - I do think there is a decent keeper worth an import slot there, shot stopping in the A-League is a key attribute, and if he does stay, playing out from the back should be situational not the norm. I would be bringing in a Visa 10 and a Visa CB as the priority signings. If one or both Japanese* imports leave, you can add a Visa Winger and/or a Visa CM (a LB that can invert and push into midfield would also help with pushing play forward). If Kosta leaves, you'd change the Visa Winger to a Visa 9. Something along those lines would get us competitive.
I believe that the club really want to sign Chico on a deal. He's staying in NZ for his rehab so he must like it here and the facilities. Definitely need a Striker to help out Kosta and if he goes, a second one. CB essential to replace Wooten, possibly a second one with height. Our team is on the short side so to speak, Left Back to replace Sutton. LKH tries hard and has some ball skills but the turning circle of a Wellington Bus.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
Hey just thought I’d say because I notice a couple of posters saying that I’m not really comfortable with the use of ‘Jap’, particularly in the context of ‘get rid of our Jap imports’ because that’s usually a machine in most circumstances, not a person.
I know for most of us ‘Jap’ isn’t a slur, it’s a nickname, but it does have history of being used as a slur. It’s a bit different to Kiwi or Aussie as a nickname.
If it’s possible to say ‘’Japanese’ imports or use the names of the players being analysed I’d feel less uncomfortable. Not a biggie, but. Chur, chur.
Much respect to your boundary mate. Out of interest tho, is that term any different from saying Aussie?
Yeh, I’d say so. Postwar feeling and all. Internment camps. Intransigence on both sides about various things.
Aussie is fairly neutral by comparison.
being half Japanese, this has irked me and I'm glad you've raised it. I was considering pointing this out myself. The terms Aussie and Jap are not in any way near comparable.
Before we get too carried away, I'm sure the original poster had no intention of causing offence. I wouldn't look too deep into it. I love being called a Kiwi.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
