WPM R10 vs Newcastle Jets | Sat 28th Dec | 5:00pm | Leuven pre-game

Mainland FC

Oluwayemi playing with a lot of confidence today.

This is what we need from him as a minimum performance. 

And he did really well. Got something on their goal too, could have saved that one! 

Ninja

number8

djtim3000

number8

3 Points is positive.
But we may played 10-15min good football and fell back to garbage after the Retre goal.
Piper was free on the side and  waved like a madman, no one passed to him because they know he is not good enough, his touches and simple layoffs are horrible, is this really the best young player in the National league?
I also thought Rufer lost the plot, I can’t remember any decent vertical pass. There is something wrong in this team.

Honestly I'm amused at how some people forgot how games were last year - read back through the match day threads, we spent a lot of time hanging on with last ditch defending under pressure for a so many matches, but more often than not came away with 'ugly' wins like this. Nothing wrong with the team outside of a plan-B in terms of goal-scoring and I'm sure thats something keeping Cheify up at night. I'll take the win and sleep easy any day regardless.

 
I hated how we played last year. Endless passing sidewards, backwards, slow decision making. We where overarching on xG factor and when that luck broke we lost the title. Like someone said above, we play pretty much like last year without the panache. We also got promised something different. And beyond a few minutes after the break I still can’t see much progress.

Agree, we were basically pretty lucky last season judging the stats. 

The counter attacking style of football can work, but it invites so much pressure and you sacrifice so much of the ball that you inherently give the opposition the upper hand throughout the whole match.

I just think it's a sub-optimal tactic in the long run. 

Conversely, look at how Corica gets his team's playing. Very high and fast press to win the ball up the field, and then spread the ball fast in attack when there's space for skillfull players to take advantage of. 

Obviously I love our team and we have some great talent. But watching Auckland this season, and even tonight, and they are just miles ahead of us. I don't necessarily think it's to do with lack of talent (although I do think they have better players on aggregate). More so, I think our tactics are just wrong.

Easy for me to say as an 'armchair' coach. But I'm not a fan of counter attacking football and sitting deep in general. Way too passive and pretty hard to watch at times.

What is the long run? A whole season? Because last year we ran with that tactic the entire season and ended up one game away from the biggest prize(s). If anything Cheify's biggest failure this year is trying a similar tactic based around a key player who is (apparently) injury prone. 

Fenix

mjp2

number8

3 Points is positive.
But we may played 10-15min good football and fell back to garbage after the Retre goal.
Piper was free on the side and  waved like a madman, no one passed to him because they know he is not good enough, his touches and simple layoffs are horrible, is this really the best young player in the National league?
I also thought Rufer lost the plot, I can’t remember any decent vertical pass. There is something wrong in this team.

I think we are playing the same style as last year but without the control in midfield that Kraev gave us, nor the extra drive we got from Old. And without quite the authority in defence that Surman and Paulsen gave us. And without the occasional special sauce from Zawada.
Rojas would have made us a better attacking side but he's barely been on the field. And Ishige, Retre and Nagasawa might have proved better than they have shown so far.  

So the same style as last year, with less control, less bite and less authority on defence. And, so far, without the intended benefit of Rojas.

That said, there is still time. We've got a lot of kids getting minutes. Rojas hopefully eventually will get a decent run of games.  If we finish strong we could still have a good season.

I think what you are trying to say, is that without those players and that attitude, we are complete and utter shyte. Todays effort didnt resemble football, or entertainment. No individuality, no surprise, no initiative, no positivity. It was formulaic overcoached crap. 

Nah.  I'm a foundation member. I've seen us be shyte and this isn't it. We're a limited side without Rojas but are still scrapping away for results. We've got five sides below us on the table.

The twenty minutes before half time in the last home game we were electric. With Rojas.

And the youngsters will get better.

Fenix

mjp2

number8

3 Points is positive.
But we may played 10-15min good football and fell back to garbage after the Retre goal.
Piper was free on the side and  waved like a madman, no one passed to him because they know he is not good enough, his touches and simple layoffs are horrible, is this really the best young player in the National league?
I also thought Rufer lost the plot, I can’t remember any decent vertical pass. There is something wrong in this team.

I think we are playing the same style as last year but without the control in midfield that Kraev gave us, nor the extra drive we got from Old. And without quite the authority in defence that Surman and Paulsen gave us. And without the occasional special sauce from Zawada.
Rojas would have made us a better attacking side but he's barely been on the field. And Ishige, Retre and Nagasawa might have proved better than they have shown so far.  

So the same style as last year, with less control, less bite and less authority on defence. And, so far, without the intended benefit of Rojas.

That said, there is still time. We've got a lot of kids getting minutes. Rojas hopefully eventually will get a decent run of games.  If we finish strong we could still have a good season.

I think what you are trying to say, is that without those players and that attitude, we are complete and utter shyte. Todays effort didnt resemble football, or entertainment. No individuality, no surprise, no initiative, no positivity. It was formulaic overcoached crap. 

I don't know how you can say that when our first goal was scored by an individual surprising the goalkeeper with initiative and taking a positive shot when he saw the keeper out of position.

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

I thought Retre and Nagasawa had good games today. 

Couldn’t watch closely today. Anyone else have anything on this? These two guys seem fairly crucial- perhaps replacing Kraev and Pennington.

Seems jury is still out on them overall, even with Retre’s winner?

martinb

Oi Oi Edgecumbe

I thought Retre and Nagasawa had good games today. 

Couldn’t watch closely today. Anyone else have anything on this? These two guys seem fairly crucial- perhaps replacing Kraev and Pennington.

Seems jury is still out on them overall, even with Retre’s winner?

I thought I saw them more physically getting stuck in, this game. Less passive defending.  And looking to take more responsibility with the ball.  Sutton too.  I thought maybe there had been a word about them being senior players and what was expected.

Maybe still a bit patchy, but better.  Pretty subjective assessment though. Interested if others thought the same 

I enjoyed the atmos today.  Fever on form.  A couple of cracking goals and 3 points in the bank.  We aren't as good as we were last year but that should be expected with most of our top players leaving.  Unsure why people expect the tactics to change from last season, its the way Chief wants to play and it got results last year so thats what we'll play.  onwards and upwards

I'm a huge fan of watching youth play... and always dream the next young kiwi is the next big thing... but.

What does WALKER offer. He trips over the ball constantly, doesn't seem to be able to beat a man on the outside or inside, and whilst quick, he isn't lightning.

What has he offered other than 'energy' which I could get from any player.

Retre had a much better game today, but can we stop defending so deep, the first 20 mins outside the goal was horrid. we average 2 passes a minute!

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but has Kosta now scored the Phoenix's longest ever goal?

The only other goal I can think of is of course Brown's against Sydney. Kosta's today was inside the centre circle, while watching Brown's again, his was a bit outside the circle.

Still remember when Vukovic both nearly received that achievement and scored the longest A-League goal when his goal kick against Glory, guided by the wind, bounced over Velaphi but hit the crossbar.

We won. It wasn't pretty. We got the points. 

I'm not sure how much longevity this playstyle has though, and certainly don't think it's going to be the one that guides us to a steady consistent playoff place. Yeah, we had some pretty grindy wins last season. But we had a bit of fight and mongrel in us that got us those results. There's none of that on display currently.

I don't think you can watch the performances over the last month and confidently envision a positive direction the squad is heading towards. It seems pretty clear nobody on the field backs themselves or rates the team or tactics to try and force something to happen or make some magic. I understand the ressoning behind wanting versatility in players but this pick a position out of the hat on the day and that's where you are playing today football doesn't seem to be clicking when there's no guiding structure or foundation to work around. There's this strange atmosphere of timid confusion on the field. We could be better, the talent is there to be fluid but it's as if there's just one or two factors that are out of place, creating this slight fog or inability to kick things into gear at 100% as we get into the middle of the season. I just feel like there's a fragility and lack of cohesion and we are walking a dangerous tight rope where a one, two punch  bad luck injury crises could very well write the season off.

We are a shell of our formerselves. These guys are sitting back even with the ball, not confident enough to make a decision that might ignite a spark. When out of possesion nobody is really initiating a press. And what's worse is certain players  are getting absolutely gassed and tiring out early by all the piggy in the middle nonsense our defence are getting caught up in during these extended spells of not being on the ball and helplessly flailing and chasing the game.

Voerman if you're reading this can you please ask what the guts is with the David Ball situation because the mind boggles that you'd willingly opt to play this risky house of cards style without an experienced leader to steady the ship during those challenging spells.

Rock Hopper

We won. It wasn't pretty. We got the points. 

I'm not sure how much longevity this playstyle has though, and certainly don't think it's going to be the one that guides us to a steady consistent playoff place. Yeah, we had some pretty grindy wins last season. But we had a bit of fight and mongrel in us that got us those results. There's none of that on display currently.

I don't think you can watch the performances over the last month and confidently envision a positive direction the squad is heading towards. It seems pretty clear nobody on the field backs themselves or rates the team or tactics to try and force something to happen or make some magic. I understand the ressoning behind wanting versatility in players but this pick a position out of the hat on the day and that's where you are playing today football doesn't seem to be clicking when there's no guiding structure or foundation to work around. There's this strange atmosphere of timid confusion on the field. We could be better, the talent is there to be fluid but it's as if there's just one or two factors that are out of place, creating this slight fog or inability to kick things into gear at 100% as we get into the middle of the season. I just feel like there's a fragility and lack of cohesion and we are walking a dangerous tight rope where a one, two punch  bad luck injury crises could very well write the season off.

We are a shell of our formerselves. These guys are sitting back even with the ball, not confident enough to make a decision that might ignite a spark. When out of possesion nobody is really initiating a press. And what's worse is certain players  are getting absolutely gassed and tiring out early by all the piggy in the middle nonsense our defence are getting caught up in during these extended spells of not being on the ball and helplessly flailing and chasing the game.

Voerman if you're reading this can you please ask what the guts is with the David Ball situation because the mind boggles that you'd willingly opt to play this risky house of cards style without an experienced leader to steady the ship during those challenging spells.

100% agree with this love what Chief has brought but there certainly seems to be an element of confusion from the players as to just how they are meant to be playing. Its certainly making it a very hard watch at the moment.

I think part of the issue yesterday is our passing looked a little off. Newcastle had their backline very high and at times when they looked vulnerable in transitional moment we fluffed some relatively easy passes or were over expansive doing flicks in our own half. They meant we turned the ball over relatively quickly and put Newcastle on the ball high up the field and created this sense of pressure, particularly in the first half, although they didn't create much in that half.

Got better in the first part of the second half when I think our decision making was better and probably lead to our best patch just before Retre's goal. Shame we didn't kick on after that.

I didn’t see the game admittedly but solely based upon the score, am a little shocked at the angst. Two goals and a victory at home. Most would normally be more then happy with that 

What will people be saying next home game if it’s a loss and no goals scored?

I also dont get the angst. I thought we were quite well organised on defense. We packed the centre and conceded the flanks. We forced them to shoot from long range. Most of their possession was ineffective. Our game plan worked well. Inexperiance caused us problems at times but the senior guys held it together. A good well earnt three points IMO

You had to see the game to understand. Jets are 11th on the table, they've been one of the league's cellar dwellers for years, we were at home, and yet we had 30 percent possession and created far less chances than they did. It was park the bus backs to the wall for the last 20 minutes. The goals we did get weren't particularly well-earned, one was a complete gift and the other was a simple case of them having nobody to contest the second phase from a corner. The most deflating win I have ever seen. It is very hard to have much optimism for the rest of the season after that, you'd be an imbecile to expect us to be top 4 after that, best we can hope for is to scrape 6th at this rate.

Edit: to be fair, we actually had 44 percent possession overall, but the vast majority of that was in our own half. I can't easily find the passes in the opposition half stat but that one is the most telling, saw it during the game and it was hilariously lopsided. And look at this:

Screenshot_2024-12-29-11-50-19-31_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg 40.06 KB

Im often accused of being overly optimistic but sorry AP and austin111 no way could you be happy with the performance and the way we played. Completely understand peoples angst it comes from expecting much more and wanting the players to deliver on what we have been told to expect.   

I agree that because what was expected/ promised is not happening, it causes angst. Chief has been naive with some of his utterances, would have been better to say something like, we will do what we need to win game by game. 

Saying you will base around one player sets that player up for the opposition to target. Then he gats injured, new game plan needed

Can't help but feel like having Ball available for the last 15 would have been very useful. He's slow as all hell but he's so good at holding the ball up and winning fouls to take pressure off. Really have to wonder what he's done to piss Chiefy off

2ndBest

I think part of the issue yesterday is our passing looked a little off. Newcastle had their backline very high and at times when they looked vulnerable in transitional moment we fluffed some relatively easy passes or were over expansive doing flicks in our own half. They meant we turned the ball over relatively quickly and put Newcastle on the ball high up the field and created this sense of pressure, particularly in the first half, although they didn't create much in that half.

Got better in the first part of the second half when I think our decision making was better and probably lead to our best patch just before Retre's goal. Shame we didn't kick on after that.

A player more experienced than Walker might have done better, or more, with the nice attack he fashioned on the left, late in the game. Lifting it high over the bar is inexcusable; if the angle was too tight he'd be better off to either pass it or if nobody was there, at least shoot at the goal.  Ben Old would have scored.

My optimism is largely influenced by the youthfull nature of our squad. If last years team played like that i would have come down hard on them. But with our already thin squad plus Colo and Rojas missing we are heavily relying on a bunch of kids from the academy. They did ok, we won, I'm happy

Ben Old might have scored. He wasn’t that clinical! Successful counters seem to require at least two attackers or Kosta, Zawada, and maybe Kraev in form.

It’s not actually an easy chance. There are no other attackers to distract the keeper and defenders. The keeper sets himself so there are fewer options about which side he can shoot it. Plus there are a bunch of defenders. It wasn’t a tap by any means.

But yeh, when in doubt hit the target and let them make the mistake or get the rebound. 

With the corners- did you see where our press started? Deep, deep in our own half. We gave them territory and possession, but failed to hit them on the counter so that part of the game didn’t work. 

Sure they had chances, but long shots that we’d expect Josh to deal with.

I do think we should have held a clean sheet and scored more. But we’re back on the win wagon flying Chief’s flag. January signings- injury replacement signings? Midfield competition or striker? Or a defender ahead of the kids?

Rock Hopper

We won. It wasn't pretty. We got the points. 

I'm not sure how much longevity this playstyle has though, and certainly don't think it's going to be the one that guides us to a steady consistent playoff place. Yeah, we had some pretty grindy wins last season. But we had a bit of fight and mongrel in us that got us those results. There's none of that on display currently.

I don't think you can watch the performances over the last month and confidently envision a positive direction the squad is heading towards. It seems pretty clear nobody on the field backs themselves or rates the team or tactics to try and force something to happen or make some magic. I understand the ressoning behind wanting versatility in players but this pick a position out of the hat on the day and that's where you are playing today football doesn't seem to be clicking when there's no guiding structure or foundation to work around. There's this strange atmosphere of timid confusion on the field. We could be better, the talent is there to be fluid but it's as if there's just one or two factors that are out of place, creating this slight fog or inability to kick things into gear at 100% as we get into the middle of the season. I just feel like there's a fragility and lack of cohesion and we are walking a dangerous tight rope where a one, two punch  bad luck injury crises could very well write the season off.

We are a shell of our formerselves. These guys are sitting back even with the ball, not confident enough to make a decision that might ignite a spark. When out of possesion nobody is really initiating a press. And what's worse is certain players  are getting absolutely gassed and tiring out early by all the piggy in the middle nonsense our defence are getting caught up in during these extended spells of not being on the ball and helplessly flailing and chasing the game.

Voerman if you're reading this can you please ask what the guts is with the David Ball situation because the mind boggles that you'd willingly opt to play this risky house of cards style without an experienced leader to steady the ship during those challenging spells.

I think I’d be asking about the OVH situation too. 

All these players who burst on the scene last year had very slow introductions. And a lot of time in the reserves to get their skills and combinations to an instinctual level under less pressure. Surman, Old, Paulsen, and OVH were not first team starters until last season. 

I think one or two new kids is okay, but if we are relying on Hughes, Sheridan, Walker, Brooke-Smith, Piper, Roa Conchie and Kelly-Heald it’s clear that they aren’t at the level of the 4 above yet. Though Hughes did seem to have luck issues rather than football! I thought him and Wootton would be our central pairing till then.

Will we be bringing in players or bringing back into the fold the two excluded ones? Do you think Piper, Brooke-Smith and Walker will continue to get the time they have been doing?
 
It’s good to see a bit of Brooke-Smith. He shouldn’t be our starting striker or winger. He’s not good enough or experienced enough for that yet. I would like to see him a bit more, but I want to see him try and score 20 for the Nix in a few years time. 

Same with Walker. I think he’s been a bit better than Colakovski, but I don’t want to see him play every game of this season. He’s had some good chances and looked good, but he needs to work on his finishing and build up his confidence with a bag full of goals and wins.

Been waiting all day to post about yesterdays win.
That looked to be more the game Chief has been wanting to play all season, excluding the "fluidity". Set up looked way more structured from the get go and the players did what was needed.
First goal was from good pressure and kosta spotting their keeper waaaay off his line!
Second was a brilliant shot from from the fialed clearance of a corner. Total quality.
Rest of the game we absorbed their pressure and Josh did really well in goal, with the defence only really failing him once which we conceeded from.
We have to remember that the Jets are shark, and couldnt hit a barn door from 5m!
We need to keep improving and I think we can, the youngest on the field looked good yesterday, he and others really upped their game. 
Piper on the other hand can fudge right off - useless as pig sharke!
Why Ball is not being picked ahead of him is beyond me. He may not be the goal scorer that we probably need - but Piper certainly isnt. Ball at least could be filling the connection role with the midfield and Kosta. Without Rojas for the next month we will be lacking there, unless Retre can step up.
Positive to end the year on a win but lets temper it and ask the questions that need to be asked. Our squad is thin of top quality and we have an import not even being selected in the gameday squad.

djtim3000

Fenix

mjp2

number8

3 Points is positive.
But we may played 10-15min good football and fell back to garbage after the Retre goal.
Piper was free on the side and  waved like a madman, no one passed to him because they know he is not good enough, his touches and simple layoffs are horrible, is this really the best young player in the National league?
I also thought Rufer lost the plot, I can’t remember any decent vertical pass. There is something wrong in this team.

I think we are playing the same style as last year but without the control in midfield that Kraev gave us, nor the extra drive we got from Old. And without quite the authority in defence that Surman and Paulsen gave us. And without the occasional special sauce from Zawada.
Rojas would have made us a better attacking side but he's barely been on the field. And Ishige, Retre and Nagasawa might have proved better than they have shown so far.  

So the same style as last year, with less control, less bite and less authority on defence. And, so far, without the intended benefit of Rojas.

That said, there is still time. We've got a lot of kids getting minutes. Rojas hopefully eventually will get a decent run of games.  If we finish strong we could still have a good season.

I think what you are trying to say, is that without those players and that attitude, we are complete and utter shyte. Todays effort didnt resemble football, or entertainment. No individuality, no surprise, no initiative, no positivity. It was formulaic overcoached crap. 

I don't know how you can say that when our first goal was scored by an individual surprising the goalkeeper with initiative and taking a positive shot when he saw the keeper out of position.

Come on. Barbarouse's moment of skill was obvious and certainly had nothing to with tactics, team plan, and constant backward passing.  Of course it was excellent. The rest of the game wasnt. If anything, it shows what is possible when you are , like, positive, make the most of your opportunities, take shots and put the ball into the box. Unlike the shyte we watched for 88 minutes.

We are unable to play unless the attack starts from the centre half. We pass back to him/them all the time, its the most predictable garbage Ive ever seen. We pass back to the centre half when we have throw ons and free kicks at the penalty box mark. That is negative bollocks. Its dull. Noone wants to watch that. 

Fenix

djtim3000

Fenix

mjp2

number8

3 Points is positive.
But we may played 10-15min good football and fell back to garbage after the Retre goal.
Piper was free on the side and  waved like a madman, no one passed to him because they know he is not good enough, his touches and simple layoffs are horrible, is this really the best young player in the National league?
I also thought Rufer lost the plot, I can’t remember any decent vertical pass. There is something wrong in this team.

I think we are playing the same style as last year but without the control in midfield that Kraev gave us, nor the extra drive we got from Old. And without quite the authority in defence that Surman and Paulsen gave us. And without the occasional special sauce from Zawada.
Rojas would have made us a better attacking side but he's barely been on the field. And Ishige, Retre and Nagasawa might have proved better than they have shown so far.  

So the same style as last year, with less control, less bite and less authority on defence. And, so far, without the intended benefit of Rojas.

That said, there is still time. We've got a lot of kids getting minutes. Rojas hopefully eventually will get a decent run of games.  If we finish strong we could still have a good season.

I think what you are trying to say, is that without those players and that attitude, we are complete and utter shyte. Todays effort didnt resemble football, or entertainment. No individuality, no surprise, no initiative, no positivity. It was formulaic overcoached crap. 

I don't know how you can say that when our first goal was scored by an individual surprising the goalkeeper with initiative and taking a positive shot when he saw the keeper out of position.

Come on. Barbarouse's moment of skill was obvious and certainly had nothing to with tactics, team plan, and constant backward passing.  Of course it was excellent. The rest of the game wasnt. If anything, it shows what is possible when you are , like, positive, make the most of your opportunities, take shots and put the ball into the box. Unlike the shyte we watched for 88 minutes.

We are unable to play unless the attack starts from the centre half. We pass back to him/them all the time, its the most predictable garbage Ive ever seen. We pass back to the centre half when we have throw ons and free kicks at the penalty box mark. That is negative bollocks. Its dull. Noone wants to watch that. 

Unfortunately it’s tough to disagree with the above.

Chiefy Out!

Dome before chiefy.

He was the one who gave an aging flat  Ball a multi year deal!

Could have used that import money much more wisely

I could make a guess about Ball. He's not in the squad because he's told the Boss he's got a mental block about passing the ball backwards.

If anybody's after a fairly measured take absent of all the hand-wringing / existential doom, there's a write-up on The Niche Cache that's well worth a look.

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2024/12/29/five-things-from-the-wellington-phoenix-return-to-winning-ways-vs-newcastle-jets

AucklandPhoenix

Dome before chiefy.

He was the one who gave an aging flat  Ball a multi year deal!

Could have used that import money much more wisely

Doubt very much it was all on Domey wouldnt mind betting he was told he was wanted. Still dosnt excuse the way he has been treated not as if he hasnt been useful. 

I felt part of it with Bally was a guilt contract given his playing through injury for us and perhaps how COVID relocation had threatened his immigration status? As in perhaps it’s not that simple? 
And the genuine belief he’d still be a very handy player at this point in his career? 

Chief has a lot of tactical ideas, but I wonder if occasionally he misses the more practical (Sunday league) skill of looking at the players he has and seeing how he could use them. It appears like he’s just discarded two here.

A third possibility is that they’ve tried to get rid of (non-starting) players on higher contracts or pressured them to renegotiate downwards and are freezing them out of if they don’t. Nasty if true, but not beyond the realms of possibility. 

Ninja

Fenix

djtim3000

Fenix

mjp2

number8

3 Points is positive.
But we may played 10-15min good football and fell back to garbage after the Retre goal.
Piper was free on the side and  waved like a madman, no one passed to him because they know he is not good enough, his touches and simple layoffs are horrible, is this really the best young player in the National league?
I also thought Rufer lost the plot, I can’t remember any decent vertical pass. There is something wrong in this team.

I think we are playing the same style as last year but without the control in midfield that Kraev gave us, nor the extra drive we got from Old. And without quite the authority in defence that Surman and Paulsen gave us. And without the occasional special sauce from Zawada.
Rojas would have made us a better attacking side but he's barely been on the field. And Ishige, Retre and Nagasawa might have proved better than they have shown so far.  

So the same style as last year, with less control, less bite and less authority on defence. And, so far, without the intended benefit of Rojas.

That said, there is still time. We've got a lot of kids getting minutes. Rojas hopefully eventually will get a decent run of games.  If we finish strong we could still have a good season.

I think what you are trying to say, is that without those players and that attitude, we are complete and utter shyte. Todays effort didnt resemble football, or entertainment. No individuality, no surprise, no initiative, no positivity. It was formulaic overcoached crap. 

I don't know how you can say that when our first goal was scored by an individual surprising the goalkeeper with initiative and taking a positive shot when he saw the keeper out of position.

Come on. Barbarouse's moment of skill was obvious and certainly had nothing to with tactics, team plan, and constant backward passing.  Of course it was excellent. The rest of the game wasnt. If anything, it shows what is possible when you are , like, positive, make the most of your opportunities, take shots and put the ball into the box. Unlike the shyte we watched for 88 minutes.

We are unable to play unless the attack starts from the centre half. We pass back to him/them all the time, its the most predictable garbage Ive ever seen. We pass back to the centre half when we have throw ons and free kicks at the penalty box mark. That is negative bollocks. Its dull. Noone wants to watch that. 

Unfortunately it’s tough to disagree with the above.

I watched the CCM vs AFC game played right after we played the Jets.  I liked the positivity of their approach, typical of the Sydney FC school of thought that produced coaching styles of Arnold, Corica, Talay, McFlynn and (yes) Italiano.
I would argue that our defence is no worse than AFC provided Payne is fit and Hughes is lucky. And sure, Paulsen is better than Oluwayemi at this point.
But it is the comparison of the transitions from defence to attack that showed a glaring difference between an energetic approach of the AFC and our somewhat timid attacking (?) passing that goes backwards before it goes forward.  And yet I do not think AFC strikers are necessarily top class; if anything I thought it was the constant creation of potentially threatening moves by AFC (especially by de Vries, Sakai and Gillon) that troubled CCM.   This is regardless of how poor the CCM were; the Jets are not excellent either so watching these two games was pretty telling for me.
I am totally happy with three points, and I am not a purist either; but being pragmatic means knowing if the tactics employed on the field will win us games. At the moment I am not expecting us to reach top six unless something improves.

Fenix

djtim3000

Fenix

mjp2

number8

3 Points is positive.
But we may played 10-15min good football and fell back to garbage after the Retre goal.
Piper was free on the side and  waved like a madman, no one passed to him because they know he is not good enough, his touches and simple layoffs are horrible, is this really the best young player in the National league?
I also thought Rufer lost the plot, I can’t remember any decent vertical pass. There is something wrong in this team.

I think we are playing the same style as last year but without the control in midfield that Kraev gave us, nor the extra drive we got from Old. And without quite the authority in defence that Surman and Paulsen gave us. And without the occasional special sauce from Zawada.
Rojas would have made us a better attacking side but he's barely been on the field. And Ishige, Retre and Nagasawa might have proved better than they have shown so far.  

So the same style as last year, with less control, less bite and less authority on defence. And, so far, without the intended benefit of Rojas.

That said, there is still time. We've got a lot of kids getting minutes. Rojas hopefully eventually will get a decent run of games.  If we finish strong we could still have a good season.

I think what you are trying to say, is that without those players and that attitude, we are complete and utter shyte. Todays effort didnt resemble football, or entertainment. No individuality, no surprise, no initiative, no positivity. It was formulaic overcoached crap. 

I don't know how you can say that when our first goal was scored by an individual surprising the goalkeeper with initiative and taking a positive shot when he saw the keeper out of position.

Come on. Barbarouse's moment of skill was obvious and certainly had nothing to with tactics, team plan, and constant backward passing.  Of course it was excellent. The rest of the game wasnt. If anything, it shows what is possible when you are , like, positive, make the most of your opportunities, take shots and put the ball into the box. Unlike the shyte we watched for 88 minutes.

We are unable to play unless the attack starts from the centre half. We pass back to him/them all the time, its the most predictable garbage Ive ever seen. We pass back to the centre half when we have throw ons and free kicks at the penalty box mark. That is negative bollocks. Its dull. Noone wants to watch that. 

Do you listen to the post game interviews? Chief was about as unhappy with the performance as I've seen any coach after a win. Calling it overcoached crap when it isn't what the coach is even wanting to see is an interesting take...

I think this game was more telling as to how confident the players are. There is low confidence across the board from the boys. They looked nervous after the Jets goal and if the Jets were half decent they may well have got a couple more. 

Unfortunately this is sport and that is how some seasons can turn out. I think some of our signings have been much worse than what I was hoping for - Nagasawa has been poor and Rojas has been even worse considering his absence. Retre I'd give a pass, I think his performances are improving, same with Ishige. Definitely not inspiring stuff from either of those two though aside from when Ishige has a dead ball to work off. 

Past the signings, our young kids are clearly too young to make any great mark on the league just yet - maybe next season or the following for them. The future is fairly bright there though.

Overall I think it is mainly a personnel issue and the fact they're down on confidence. Unless something changes with this or Rojas makes a miraculous return we won't get higher than 6th this season.  We'll likely lose over in Melbourne in the new year i suspect. They're a better side than WSW who we lost to 4-1

Hate to say I told y'all so, but Rojas' signing has proven to be as expected, arrives with no game fitness, needs time, gets start and shock horror gets injured, now we wait for a month and start over. He has the skill and maybe the attitude, but the man is simply not built for regular footy, much like when he was first here.

theprof

Hate to say I told y'all so, but Rojas' signing has proven to be as expected, arrives with no game fitness, needs time, gets start and shock horror gets injured, now we wait for a month and start over. He has the skill and maybe the attitude, but the man is simply not built for regular footy, much like when he was first here.

Building our team around a guy who hasn't stayed fit in years was definitely an interesting choice..

When he was first here, he was a kid, so not a fair comparison - Melbourne  Victory got his best years and availability. 

Nagasawa is, imo, the first real import 'miss' from the Chiefy reign. I would've preferred we kept Pennington and looked for an import CB or FB. As him and Ishige both have 2 year deals, we have to play them and hope they come good.

I don't think Ishige has handled the physical robustness of the league very well either. He's good on a dead ball, but does not impact the game enough in open play, especially when we need creativity without Rojas. It's often Kosta dropping deep and showing for the balll

mykey

Crowd?

5460

martinb

I felt part of it with Bally was a guilt contract given his playing through injury for us and perhaps how COVID relocation had threatened his immigration status? As in perhaps it’s not that simple? 
And the genuine belief he’d still be a very handy player at this point in his career? 

Chief has a lot of tactical ideas, but I wonder if occasionally he misses the more practical (Sunday league) skill of looking at the players he has and seeing how he could use them. It appears like he’s just discarded two here.

A third possibility is that they’ve tried to get rid of (non-starting) players on higher contracts or pressured them to renegotiate downwards and are freezing them out of if they don’t. Nasty if true, but not beyond the realms of possibility. 

Why would that be nasty? It's professional sport, it's cut-throat and a tough environment. 

Happens all the time, all over the world, and probably at every club (at some point in time). If high earning players are not performing, you try and get rid of them. This is the business.

I love Ball as much as anyone, and none of the above is directed at him, more so just a general comment. 

Ninja

martinb

I felt part of it with Bally was a guilt contract given his playing through injury for us and perhaps how COVID relocation had threatened his immigration status? As in perhaps it’s not that simple? 
And the genuine belief he’d still be a very handy player at this point in his career? 

Chief has a lot of tactical ideas, but I wonder if occasionally he misses the more practical (Sunday league) skill of looking at the players he has and seeing how he could use them. It appears like he’s just discarded two here.

A third possibility is that they’ve tried to get rid of (non-starting) players on higher contracts or pressured them to renegotiate downwards and are freezing them out of if they don’t. Nasty if true, but not beyond the realms of possibility. 

Why would that be nasty? It's professional sport, it's cut-throat and a tough environment. 

Happens all the time, all over the world, and probably at every club (at some point in time). If high earning players are not performing, you try and get rid of them. This is the business.

I love Ball as much as anyone, and none of the above is directed at him, more so just a general comment. 

Yep your right but when you have also asked that player to play when injured and fulfill a roll in the team he wasnt really keen on. Pretty sure he would reasonably expect to be treated with some respect and not just thrown on the scrap heap and largely ignored  and worse not even spoken to.

Ninja

martinb

I felt part of it with Bally was a guilt contract given his playing through injury for us and perhaps how COVID relocation had threatened his immigration status? As in perhaps it’s not that simple? 
And the genuine belief he’d still be a very handy player at this point in his career? 

Chief has a lot of tactical ideas, but I wonder if occasionally he misses the more practical (Sunday league) skill of looking at the players he has and seeing how he could use them. It appears like he’s just discarded two here.

A third possibility is that they’ve tried to get rid of (non-starting) players on higher contracts or pressured them to renegotiate downwards and are freezing them out of if they don’t. Nasty if true, but not beyond the realms of possibility. 

Why would that be nasty? It's professional sport, it's cut-throat and a tough environment. 

Happens all the time, all over the world, and probably at every club (at some point in time). If high earning players are not performing, you try and get rid of them. This is the business.

I love Ball as much as anyone, and none of the above is directed at him, more so just a general comment. 

Particularly with OVH, and to a lesser degree with Bally, if they’ve made a mistake it’s not cool to tarnish a player’s reputation because you’ve agreed to a deal that now is a little on the high side. I don’t mean them seeing out their contract, I mean the club bullying them until they accept less than they’re contractually obliged to. That behaviour is more common than you’d like and would be nasty. 
Again, it’s just a possibility among several.