Wellington Phoenix Men

Youth Team 09 - The "Pignata Plan"

106 replies · 1,109 views
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think this is a good 'B' Plan if they don't get into the A-League youth league but the games can't be friendlies.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Good idea...but it seems we are actually going to be in the NZFC officially. How does that work in terms of transferring players to and from the reserve side to the first team each week? Youd only be able to do it once a season as i understand it....not ideal.
 
Good for the young players to get some game time,but not ideal as a 'reserve' side.So we'd still be a little disadvantaged compared to other A league clubs. Correct me if im wrong and there is a way around the international transfer?

Allegedly

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
When Jeremy Christie was Adsheads 24th player, he was playing for Waitakere and the call up process and stand down for that was bloody ridiculous
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think they may have found a way around the international transfer rule (based on Imraaaaaaaaay and Spoons providing cover early in the season) and transfer from the amateur NZFC to the Phoenix I don't think needs any stand down.  The problem would be the 4 weeks that I'm pretty sure are needed if you drop back to the NZFC from the A-League.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Obviously would prefer the youth league but if this is the best then we should make the most of it.  I agree with an earlier comment, though, that this could add fuel to bin Hammam's argument about us being a NZ team etc.

Plus, it'd be great to watch the Phoenix play in Christchurch.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
The problem would be the 4 weeks that I'm pretty sure are needed if you drop back to the NZFC from the A-League.



Is this four week thing an FFA rule or NZF one?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Isnt it FIFA?

But yeah would obviously prefer the FFA league so that we could use it as a proper reserve side,but if thats not possible then this is definetly next best. At least it would give us a chance to give some youngsters a run.
 
Just like daniel this year is all,he would have been great if he could drop to a reserve side for 2 weeks,get match fit,then come back into the first team....but with this idea we'd have to drop him for 4 weeks...so as a reserve side it isnt very good.
 
But better than nothing.
Tegal2009-03-05 17:15:27

Allegedly

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Tony P. will be on radio sport sometime after 11 on this subject.
 
11.15am to be exact
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
In my view the NZFC is definitely a second-best option, by a long way.  The Phoenix should have exactly the same rights and opportunities as the other A-League clubs, namely, being allowed to field a reserve side in the stronger Australian competition.  Otherwise it simply continues to be an uneven playing field, with the Phoenix being the only odd-man out.
 
I think we are definitely treated as the poor cousins and backwater of the A-League and unfortunately the club appears to put up with this situation with little resistance.  In my opinion, the Phoenix should have taken legal action against FFA to seek the club's participation in the Australian league.  If the FFA wants a New Zealand-based club in the A-League, it then shoudn't discriminate against any club in any way.  We are definitely disadvantaged by not being able to play a second side in the Australian competition.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Clearly 2nd Best... though streets ahead of 3rd Best like we had last season.

:)

E + R + O

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It's not FFA that's preventing us from entering the competition, it's simply a matter of cost. FFA's not keen to fund the development of youth players from a different association from a different confederation, but if we had the funds to enter our youth team in the competition the FFA would let us play. Think we could hardly blame the FFA for this situation, it's just one of the poblems you face as a team playing in a different country's league.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Are they scared a future New Zealand club or international side could threaten them on the field?
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
no
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No, they just don't want the ear-ache for spending subs and funds for Australian football on developing other nations players... although some could argue that the amount the FFA fund the A-League they are by default paying for the acreers of other nations players anyway, but that is another fight.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
It's not FFA that's preventing us from entering the competition, it's simply a matter of cost. FFA's not keen to fund the development of youth players from a different association from a different confederation, but if we had the funds to enter our youth team in the competition the FFA would let us play. Think we could hardly blame the FFA for this situation, it's just one of the poblems you face as a team playing in a different country's league.
 
That's not my recollection of the situation el grapadura.  As I understand it, the Phoenix wanted to include a side in the Australian competition and were even prepared to base it in Australia. The FFA wasn't prepared to allow this.  The substantial cost of this approach would have been incurred by the Phoenix, and, as well as the Phoenix being allowed to participate in the A-League on the basis of a level playing field, Australian youth players would have benefited since there would have been an additional club in the mix.  Even if a second Phoenix side were based in Wellington, each of the Australian clubs would have faced a relatively modestl monetary cost, being the cost of one away trip to Wellington.  At the same time, the Phoenix would more than likely have drawn on the larger Australian pool of youth talent, which would have benefited the development of Australian football. 
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The Phoenix evaluated the viablity of a side based in Canberra but realised that the costs would have been too much to justify.  The FFA had not refused the idea by the time the Phoenix decided they would be better spending the money elsewhere in the organisation.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No - the proposed Canberra experiment was an attempt to enter the leage by defraying the costs of having a team in Wellington, but it too proved financially unfeasible. Nothing to do with FFA blocking the move. I'm sure the Nix management used some of the arguments you've just set out to make a case for funding from FFA, but at the end of the day I can't really blame that organisation for not wanting to financially back development of players from another association and confederation, when they can conceivably expend that money on development of their own players.

Edit - just saw that News pretty much posted the same thing. el grapadura2009-05-06 11:27:23
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Coincidentally, the story about the FFA giving their blessing to Phoenix reserves in the NZFC (pending approval by AFC) is on the front page.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
No - the proposed Canberra experiment was an attempt to enter the leage by defraying the costs of having a team in Wellington, but it too proved financially unfeasible. Nothing to do with FFA blocking the move. I'm sure the Nix management used some of the arguments you've just set out to make a case for funding from FFA, but at the end of the day I can't really blame that organisation for not wanting to financially back development of players from another association and confederation, when they can conceivably expend that money on development of their own players.

Edit - just saw that News pretty much posted the same thing.
 
Thanks for the update el grapadura, and also HN.
 
I still think we are at a huge disadvantage, certainly from a long-term club perspective, by not participating in the Australian competition.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think we are as well, and I'm pretty sure the Phoenix think we are.  The trouble is that we survive on the generosity of one man who is in a business that is one of the worst hit by the current economic conditions and asking Terry to stump another $1.5 million to get a side in the youth league seems a little greedy and probably unrealistic.

At least this solution gives us an opportunity to have a side and ideally at a cost that is less likely to impact the clubs profitability.  Remember that even with the FFA funding a large chunk of the youth league pretty much every Aus side went backwards last year financially with the addition of the W-League and the Yoof League.
Hard News2009-05-06 12:02:58

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think the Nix reserves playing in the NZFC is a pragmatic solution to the challenge of giving fringe / recovering first team players game time and providing a development path for young talent.
 
My only concern is that it doesn't preclude the Nix playing in the ACL.
He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Whitby boy wrote:

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My only concern is that it doesn't preclude the Nix playing in the ACL.


Well, we're precluded from playing in it at this stage anyway, and have my personal doubts that it'll change any time soon.

And axmfc - yeah, I too agree we are competetively disadvantaged by not playing in the yoof league, but was just pointing out that such a situation is hardly the FFA's fault. Like News said, considering the circumstances, we should just take what we can get (i.e. NZFC) and try to make the best of it for now.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Whitby boy wrote:

 

My only concern is that it doesn't preclude the Nix playing in the ACL.


Well, we're precluded from playing in it at this stage anyway, and have my personal doubts that it'll change any time soon.
 
That may well be the case but unless playing in the ACL is definitely a lost cause then I wouldn't want to see us reduce our chances further.
He dribbles a lot and the opposition dont like it - you can see it all over their faces. (Ron Atkinson)
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
looks like the reserve team playing in the NZFC is moving along positively - as with all good things it will take time.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I still don't understand how we will get around re-registering of players to play in separate country's leagues.
 
And hopefully the AFC elections oust Bin Hamman or I'm not convinced he'll sanction this anyway..
Wibblebutt2009-05-06 13:26:43



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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Wibblebutt wrote:
I still don't understadn how we will get around re-registering of players to play in separate country leagues.
 
And hopefully the AFC elections oust Bin Hamman or I'm not convinced he'll sanction this anyway..


And do we know the alternative will?
E + R + O

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
axmfc wrote:
In my view the NZFC is definitely a second-best option, by a long way.  The Phoenix should have exactly the same rights and opportunities as the other A-League clubs, namely, being allowed to field a reserve side in the stronger Australian competition.  Otherwise it simply continues to be an uneven playing field, with the Phoenix being the only odd-man out.
 
I think we are definitely treated as the poor cousins and backwater of the A-League and unfortunately the club appears to put up with this situation with little resistance.  In my opinion, the Phoenix should have taken legal action against FFA to seek the club's participation in the Australian league.  If the FFA wants a New Zealand-based club in the A-League, it then shoudn't discriminate against any club in any way.  We are definitely disadvantaged by not being able to play a second side in the Australian competition.
You joined it , knowing you couldnt get the prize ,  even if you won it.....less "poor cousin" more  " special little person"  you read the paper and then you signed  it ....mug!
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i was getting all excited about the progress being made on the baby phoenix playing in the NZfc comp....the FFA were i favour of it as well and THEN those fateful words" we just need to run it past the Asian Federation to get their permission"
 
How long will it take them to make up their minds? before the start of this season? Not bloody likely! Time is real important...draws have to be made and travel/accomm etc have to be sorted out.
 
Don't hold your breath over this one. The Asian Federation could easily say no.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frank Van Hattum will be on radio sport this afternoon regarding the Phoenix Yoof team in the NZFC.
Rumour has it the team will be required to wear plastic red noses.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can someone please explain to me how this NZFC idea is supposed to give our fringe players game time when the NZFC doesn't kick off until November and the A-league starts in August?? It's basically 3 1/2 months of no youth/reserve team.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Is that what you tell Mrs News?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Yeh, but its still nowhere near ideal. When does the Oz Youth league start? Will Tony P try and arrange some friendlies for our team before the NZFC kicks off? Also, would we use local Wellington youth players or national?

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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SurgeQld wrote:
Wibblebutt wrote:
I still don't understadn how we will get around re-registering of players to play in separate country leagues.
 
And hopefully the AFC elections oust Bin Hamman or I'm not convinced he'll sanction this anyway..


And do we know the alternative will?
 
We don't, but based on his previous stance then there is about 0% chance that Bin Hamman will, and anything more than 0% is at least an improvement. Having said that the FFA appear to support Bin Hamman (although hopefully that might have changed since BH's backflip on a single AFC WC bid) his opponent might not feel that inclined to support anything that FFA asks for in the short term.
 
NZ Football needs a professional team, and for that team to be competitive we need a youth team. To get that running we may need to join the AFC. Some say we cannot afford to, I believe we cannot afford not to. Sorry to go off on a tangent but I wonder if that is what it will eventually come down to.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
shabba121 wrote:
Yeh, but its still nowhere near ideal.


Beggars can't be choosers.
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Basically it comes down to the fact that it is better than nothing.
 
NZFC is better than nothing...well nothing than better...Pignata sez.."Should have all the benefits"....!?? You mugs have NONE of the benefits , god , no wonder the aussies want you , your funnier than a clown circus and a hell of a lot cheaper , you just cant get to all the grounds for halftime....
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almost 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
...and in English ?  I think you may have chosen to ignore the context of my statement.

Tony P on the radio stated they have no O-League aspirations but would want to play for points to make it meaningful.  Considering the whining and anguish when the league was cut back last season I thought you would jump at two new sides to lengthen the season.

Pretty sure clan Vuksich (with an h Uli ?) would.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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