All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

New Zealand Men's U-20s

6284 replies · 1,135,552 views
over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Craig Foster has made some comments on this in the Aussie context - and I think despite him being an idiot evangelist he does make some decent points.  Fairly relevant to this discussion I guess.  I think the point that results at Junior level need to be analysed and should result from performance is quite a fair one...
 
 
I think measuring performances as how many of these guys get pro contracts is wrong.  But I think it is fair to ask who is going to go on to play for the full national team.  If the answer is not many then I'm not sure this tournament can be viewed a success no matter what the results are
 
We are 10 years behind Australia minimum so maybe we have different expectations.  But over time we probably need to move to the same mindset as he talks about here...
james dean2011-08-04 00:17:35

Normo's coming home

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Foster's analysis shouldn't be taken too seriously because he'll probably contradict it in 6 month's time. He yelled long and loud for a Dutch-style football 'revolution' in Oz but in demanding the sacking of first Pim Verbeek and now this guy, has somewhat conveniently forgotten this fact. Naturally, too, Foster's own U20 WC experience was a heroic death or glory affair while today's tournaments are simply sterile exercises in player progression. A legend in his own mind.

I'm a long way from things over here but it's clear to me that something extremely promising is going on in NZ football. Success appears to be perpetuating success at all levels, along with a corresponding sense of possibility, belief and professionalism, which I know sounds a bit airy fairy, but I reckon that whether or not our young players are impressing European club scouts the results they are achieving on the pitch are important and are helping to push forward the game in NZ.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
StopOut - I agree on your general assesment on Foster but from time to time he does seem to come out with something I agree with and I guess I find his general point reasonably fair.
 
I agree with you, we are clearly moving forward.  The next step is moving our football up a level.
 
I am really buzzing for the next match - I'm guessing you are in the UK?  The games are on Eurosport live if you have access to Sky?  KO are in the evenings, about 11pm for the early matches then later on during the evening...
 
EDIT: just seen maybe you are in Aussie - apologies
james dean2011-08-04 03:17:40

Normo's coming home

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

<--------Stopout

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A game New Zealand U20 vs Australia U20 would've been cool..
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
any game between us and them is cool whatever the age group. not that the aussies will ever be keen on regular games unless we get into the Asian confederation. theprof2011-08-04 10:06:49

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What does everyone think about Colin Murphy and the fella Thomas. They've been invisible in the first two games, I can't even remember seeing them.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:
What does everyone think about Colin Murphy and the fella Thomas. They've been invisible in the first two games, I can't even remember seeing them.

Future Tim Brown replacements?

Its no longer a problem.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
The one thing that is really disappointing - at U17, U20 and Senior level we don't have one genuine attacking midfielder (Marco is a winger) who can get on the ball and control the play.�
�

That indicaters that there iis a huge flaw in our coaching setup

I would like a deeper midfielder who can get on the ball and control play, first receiver from defence. I only watched the last 15min of the u20 game and watched most of the u17 games, but it seems that most of our deeper midfielders are picked on their ability without the ball - not saying a destroyer is a bad thing but pairing two together (which may help when we know we are going to be struggling anyway) can result in not very eye catching play.

I suppose it comes down to the purpose of age group tournaments, do we develop/pick players/type of player we would like to see in the national team or do we try and get results?Bullion2011-08-04 13:30:10
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bullion wrote:
james dean wrote:
The one thing that is really disappointing - at U17, U20 and Senior level we don't have one genuine attacking midfielder (Marco is a winger) who can get on the ball and control the play.�
�

That indicaters that there iis a huge flaw in our coaching setup

I would like a deeper midfielder who can get on the ball and control play, first receiver from defence. I only watched the last 15min of the u20 game and watched most of the u17 games, but it seems that most of our deeper midfielders are picked on their ability without the ball - not saying a destroyer is a bad thing but pairing two together (which may help when we know we are going to be struggling anyway) can result in not very eye catching play.

I suppose it comes down to the purpose of age group tournaments, do we develop/pick players/type of player we would like to see in the national team or do we try and get results?


The World Cup is for results. Period. If you want to develop a team then use friendly matches.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Colin Murphy and Adam Thomas are two quality ball playing footballers
But that`s not the game plan for the U20`s Their job is to track and isolate the opposition midfield
On a different day with a different game plan these 2 players would blossom
 
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I agree on the midfield, they have been largely invisable and are the weakness of this team

it is fine having a go at branch and musa for hoofing the ball but the bottom line is if the midfield are not making themselves available or do not possess the skill to do anything once they receive the ball, it gives the defenders little other option

I just hope players like keat and henderson come through because I don't think the answer to our all white midfield problems lie with the young ones

Auckland will rise once more

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Luis Garcia wrote:
Bullion wrote:
james dean wrote:
The one thing that is really disappointing - at U17, U20 and Senior level we don't have one genuine attacking midfielder (Marco is a winger) who can get on the ball and control the play.�
�

That indicaters that there iis a huge flaw in our coaching setup

I would like a deeper midfielder who can get on the ball and control play, first receiver from defence. I only watched the last 15min of the u20 game and watched most of the u17 games, but it seems that most of our deeper midfielders are picked on their ability without the ball - not saying a destroyer is a bad thing but pairing two together (which may help when we know we are going to be struggling anyway) can result in not very eye catching play.

I suppose it comes down to the purpose of age group tournaments, do we develop/pick players/type of player we would like to see in the national team or do we try and get results?


The World Cup is for results. Period. If you want to develop a team then use friendly matches.

Fair enough that WC's are for results but how many friendlies do we play against testing opposition? It seems we play qualification games against Oceania opponents and then friendlies leading into WC's which allows us to develop a result based game plan for that WC. I don't know if we play enough (if at all) friendlies, especially against testing opposition, that allows us to experiment with game play, players and styles.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bullion and UK Kiwi are the only ones making any sense over the last few articles.
Luis Garcia, most of your comments don't even deserve a reply.
James Dean, getting a proffesional contract and playing for the All Whites go hand in hand. If your not playing proffesionally, you should not be in the All Whites.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
NZ Football has progressed remarkably well in the last 4 years.  Under 17s reaching 2nd round of previous 2 World Cups.  All Whites unbeaten @ 2010 World Cup. NZ ladies very competitive @ 2011 World Cup.  Under 20s with a realistic chance of reaching 2nd round.  NZ can now be taken seriously (no longer an easy 3 pts for opposition).  All the best for Saturday U 20s  !!! 
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
the centre midfielders are there to protect the back four.  they are being deployed essentially as defenders in front of defenders to 1. kill space, 2. pick up lose ball and 3. make tackles.  a distant fourth would be ball retention.

they do afford us with the opportunity to play down either flank and keep two men up the park, although any ball forward really does always end up being direct.

not everyopne's cuppa, but a viable tactic for a side with no pedigree which is considerably weaker than the teams we are playing

360footballnews.com

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
After today's results, a draw will be enough to see NZ through to the knock-out stages as one of the best third-placed finishers.  If they lose they might still make it through depending on results in the other groups playing on Sunday.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Unique tournament so far for England - they've had three 0-0 draws.  I'd need to check but I can't remember a team ever having three goal-less draws in WC group play.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
liverpoolfan1 wrote:
After today's results, a draw will be enough to see NZ through to the knock-out stages as one of the best third-placed finishers.  If they lose they might still make it through depending on results in the other groups playing on Sunday.
 
Yeah, like the Aussies getting pumped by Spain and Equador not beating Kosta Rica. That would be hilarious.
 

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:


thought we were already doing this
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
really looking forward to the game tomorrow!

VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A good incentive to try and win the game tomorrow (if one was needed) is that if NZ finish third in the group and end up progressing, their most likely knock-out stage opponent will be Spain. Useful side.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

It could also come down to a "drawing of lots" situation in Group B ... if both NZ v Portugal and Uruguay v Cameroon are drawn matches ... and the Uruguay v Cameroon result is one goal higher (i.e 1-1 to 0-0, 2-2 to 1-1 etc) ... NZ and Uruguay will be equal on points, goal difference, goals scored and the result in their group match ... they'll need to draw lots to seperate second from third.

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
We'll become 'drawing of lots' specialists at this rate.
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
There's so many permutations that I have given up trying to work them all out, the 4 best 3rd places rule makes the whole thing way too complicated. Hopefully they can do us proud and win, thats the easiest permutation in my book!

Yellow Fever - Misery loves company

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
reg22 wrote:
the centre midfielders are there to protect the back four.  they are being deployed essentially as defenders in front of defenders to 1. kill space, 2. pick up lose ball and 3. make tackles.  a distant fourth would be ball retention.

they do afford us with the opportunity to play down either flank and keep two men up the park, although any ball forward really does always end up being direct.

not everyopne's cuppa, but a viable tactic for a side with no pedigree which is considerably weaker than the teams we are playing
 
I understand that we have prioritised defensive stability and are using that framework to get results.  I do accept that approach.  However, I don't agree with some of the comments that results are all that matter. 
 
I think at this level we should be aiming to let young players express themselves, to show their ability and to develop as individuals as well as to look at the team's results.  I don't know whether the 2 central midfielders are capable of a more technical approach because I've not seen either of them play before.  But if they are, I think it is sad that they are being asked to play in such a negative fashion purely to get results at a tournament that ultimately we're never going to win, and which will be forgotten pretty quickly. 
 
At some point in time NZ teams need to learn to attack effectively.  Football at this and U20 is as much about learning as winning.  Undoubtedly we're learning a lot but perhaps we ought to be a little less pragmatic and not focus so much on results.
james dean2011-08-05 23:53:08

Normo's coming home

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Likelihood of finding an internet stream tomorrow?

a.haak

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
valeo wrote:
Likelihood of finding an internet stream tomorrow?

great. seen them all online

Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka

http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I thought this was today?
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Game Day! Firing up farken!!!!!!!
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
This is supposed to be in 30 min and I can't any farken streams :(
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
did u go on twitter and search bro. try it


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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Im going to be out watching it but it is on here for sure, see Channel one

http://www.stopstream.tv/


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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
^ woot thanks :D
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Nervous for this game. But cmon lads NHpeter2011-08-06 09:58:33
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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
common boys

Calling all fans in Japan, come down and support the mighty nix in Osaka

http://www.facebook.com/WellingtonPhoenixClubMembersSupportersGroupOsaka

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rock'n'roll


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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Love how we are hassling them on D

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over 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Pushing more than Portugal atm Therk2011-08-06 10:06:38
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