New Zealand Men's U-20s

Pretty shark results over the last couple of days. Quite conceivable that we could beat Myanmar and still miss out on 2nd round. Though that may not be the worst thing in the world either.

Also, surprised to see that Tuiloma is being praised a lot here. For a full professional and international, he's been decidedly average.

does anyone know what time they're training tomorrow?  Guessing it will be newtown park.

Yet Bill has still appeared to be a level above the others,thus far - imo

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One of the first thing they have to change is to make it ALL year and not a winter sport. It is just the most ridiculous idea to let kids only play between April and September, they miss more than of half of the year on football (the best half).

How do you they think they want to catch that up later?

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The better kids in NZ play 11 months of the year. The best ones are playing, club, school, Federation and private academy training every week for 11 months of the year. A typical 14 year old federation level player will train  twice a week with their federation in the summer terms, twice a week for club, twice a week for school, once a week for a private academy and play 2 games a week.  During the non season months most of the better players (and increasingly the average level players) are playing summer 7 aside football and also attending private  and club academies. This has been going on for at least a decade now.

What you are saying is what I have been watching for a while.

I see there are plenty on here been drinking the NTC / FTC koolaid...

If those systems are the answer why are so many international level youth players never touching either system on their way to selection ?  

Seriously,go talk to some of the more respected youth coaches in the game and see how many of them tell players not to waste their time.

A topic for its own thread really...

Yet another example of how fractured NZF football pathway is on the Men's side.

Im hoping the U-20s can end on a positive note and bounce back with a positive performance regardless of the result.

From what I saw, he was all over the park trying to do too much to compensate for everyone elses weaknesses. If he tries to do that, of course he will look average. What is he supposed to do? Clone himself 9 times?

Easily a level above everyone else in the team and is feeling the added pressure of captaincy. He doesn't strike me as a natural leader, but he's certainly doing his best.

Well, if you look at the basic role he's meant to play - be a screen in front of the backline, and an outlet to receive the ball from the backline and get us moving forward - he's not really doing it. He really should show some basic competence in that regard before trying to do much else.

I almost get the feeling that people on here think - gee, he plays professionally in Europe, so he's really awesome, and correspondingly look for evidence that backs up that view (i.e. a decent run, couple of nice passes are evidence of him being on 'much higher level'). All I see is a guy who's failing to perform his basic task in the team.

Lucky we don't let you pick the team ...

Strange, I thought they'd run with your choice over Anthony Hudson's? ....

But in all seriousness, it seems so darn obvious that Ramon could do a better job than Bazeley. Wish he was the coach.

Anyone worried about the surface? Looks like it might suit more of a Ricki Herbert style of football...

surface will be fine

Myanmar looked as shark house as us in the Ukraine goal highlights 

Been told by some within the U17 camp from a couple of years back that they were told to "forget everything they were taught in FTC".

#maligned

I'm too old to understand anything that is preceded by a hashtag.  I'm surprised I even know what a hashtag is.

I agree with you El Grapadura - Tuiloma's role is the deep-lying midfielder, so when he goes all over the park (either "covering up others downfalls", or "aimlessly marauding") he lets the team down by a) crouding an area of the field he doesn't need to be in, and b) leaving a great big hole that Moses Dyer doesn't have the ability or the fitness to cover.

By staying in, and around, his allotted area I feel our midfield will have more structure, and our defence more protection. Why he is taking throw-ins on the right wing, for instance, is beyond me.

Hopefully Monty Patterson gets a start this match, and equally hopefully he doesn't run down blind alleys trying to do it all himself.....as was a bit guilty off vs USA

Saw both teams out today. Kiwis looked chipper, Myanmarese (Myanmartians?) looked extremely cold.

For me, it's then up to the coach to direct him to not drift too much rather than relying on Bill being a cut above to push the team forward.

It's easy forget that he's still young, and still needs that sort of coaching. I saw a player trying to do too much.

Valid point.

I don't really want to turn this into an argument since my original comment was meant more as an aside than anything else - but he's 20. Now, that's a lot younger than me, but in football terms, it actually isn't that young. If he does still need that sort of coaching at that age, then that's probably a big reason why we rank where we do internationally.

Unfortunately he'd probably have needed a lot more time with them than what might have been available (a month?) - tho two years would have been super generous. Two years! Just what has Bazeley actually achieved with these guys in TWO YEARS?

11 Fijians who have never played outside their country and are all amateur are playing some good football and winning 3-0, is it so hard?

If fiji can win so can we, have fun, forget being to serious, forget everyone is watching, just play hard and leave everything on the pitch

Well done Fiji.

I bet Honduras are spewing.

Think we have been woeful tbh, the basic footballing understanding is just not there. Bit concerning really, we aren't even organised properly on pitch, if you are not organised at international level you're farked

how does myanmar have such long odds to win? 
- Is the TAB bet at the top the wrong way round?

Betfair odds are similar. I just put $40 on Myanmar to win at $10.50. Still want NZ to win though.

Myanmar should stroll through this next game quiet easy. Let just hope the U23's do better or are coached better.

To be fair Bill was man of the match against Ukraine(NZ Herald) and he was carrying a groin injury into the second game. However I think Bill has been built up somewhat. The media and fans need a star.....and he sort of got the job.

In Marseille he is seen as a promising junior player. He got 2 runs with the senior side(20 mins or so on the field) The rest of his playing experiance at Marseille has been CFA2...which is local, mainly amateur Div 5 in France.

The thought in Marseille is that Bill has all the physical attributes to play Ligue 1(he is a great athlete) but is not there yet tactically. There are strong rumours that he will get a pro contract soon. There are also suggestions that he might get loaned out to a Div 2 side so he can get more match time and they can assess if he has the potential to be a OM first team player.

He is 20, which is by European standards is not young. But IMO NZ players are 3 to 4 years behind in their development.

I hope Bill does make it. He has a reputation at Marseille of being one of their hardest workers in training and they like his mental approach. I have seen a couple of his CFA2 games and his senior matches. He played his role very well. Kept his position, just made his tackles and passed the ball quickly and accurately...kept it all nice and simple. From what I have seen playing in the WC he is trying to do too much. The expectations on him as captain and "named pro" are quite big.

Match day. Fire up. Must win, 6 pointer, etc

Some big happiness insurance potential here at the TAB. Myanmar $9.50 to win and $5 for the draw!? may as well throw $100 on each one.

I agree wholeheartedly El Grap, for example I've been quite underwhelmed by Edge, I'm still waiting for him to do something that Messenger hasn't done week in week out for Wanderers - to date, nothing.  After 2 full seasons with Wanderers I hope Messenger gets a run today.

And it's not just Edge, other U20's overseas or "professional" players I don't think have really delivered, Ridenton and Rufer immediately spring to mind, although Rufer is for some reason playing out of his usual position.

I know a lot of comments revolve around the long build up, but most of the overseas and Phoenix players have really only had limited game time in the "system" that the Wanderers players have played a lot of games in.  Has this contributed to the stuttering performances to date, because Ukraine really were quite poor against us.

it's hard to throw muck at Ridenton when he is played as an attacking midfielder (he is not) and Rufer when he has had 60 mins as a striker (he is not)

The problem in large parts is Bazeleys desire to keep Dyer in there whom has played as well as he is named. He is playing players in positions that pretty much most can see is extremely odd. A 4-1-4-1 would suit them a lot better and you could play Stephens, Ridenton, Rufer and Lewis in that band of 4. That would make a lot more sense

They need a striker. Patterson is a left winger that prefers to run at fullbacks and Billingsly has some promise but takes some youthful options/runs.

Hope we get a decent croud to support out boys tonight. Would love a white out, and dreaming of a sell out, it will be cold but thankfully not windy.

Wonder how many of you are basing these player assessments on watching the tv coverage. Funny, but watching at pitch level I'm seeing something quite different...

Yes there were mistakes, but the team faced a USA side with some very good technical players who pressed/hunted effectively giving us less time on the ball than I suspect most of the players had ever experienced before.

Perhaps we can put the 'Great Kiwi Knocking Machine' aside until after the game and focus on the positives and get behind the team.

I wonder sometimes whether the strongest opinions come from the most distance.. Go the All Whites.. Have a cracker and gain some confidence..