All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams

Vs Mexico 2nd Leg Wed 20th 7:00pm SS1

919 replies · 117,468 views
over 12 years ago
threatD wrote:
Jezzaa wrote:
chefmivec wrote:
paulm wrote:
chefmivec wrote:

Sitting here eating my marmite toast thinking what could have been . not gonna dwell on it for much longer mexico were classy and they might just make the quarters ( as underdogs ).

Am looking forward to 2017 now . with this team minus a couple a new coach and a few tweaks here and there we could be a good contender for Russia.
I hate bagging him but durante was far to slow tonight.  and the Mexicans if hadn't known already figured it out pretty quickly.

Enjoyed seeing the mexico supporter get thrown out of the stadium tho . haha that woman probably thought she would be put back in her seat but nope see ya

 

Think it coulda been a lot different with Winston in there for these games, he's used to dealing with better and faster players than what the mexicans have. 


exactly .Winston could have been a game changer.


I don't agree, he wouldn't have created chances, that's what we lack. Mexico would have just to played harder in the 2nd half to ensure their victory as Reid would probably would have stopped more and organisaed our defence better,

Its pretty hard to argue that our best defender (by a long way) wouldnt have made a big impact in a team that shipped 9 goals in 2 games.

A game changer probably not, but certainly a big impact.


I do think that he would have helped us defend a lot more effectively. But he could only do so much, in the 2nd half of the 2nd half when we began to increase pressure (and maybe Mexico eased off as well) the game seemed competetive for the first time. Prior to that, our midfield and attack really had nothing to pressure them. So while Winston would have helped, I still don't see how we could win it.
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over 12 years ago
paulm wrote:

I thought the game was very promising. 

James has surprised me a lot in this tie. He and weemac in front of a DM with kosta/marco wide and wood or brockie up front, that should be able to trouble many a decent international side. The next layer of youth appears promising as well at this stage, with thomas, rufer, ridenton etc etc. Perhaps tuiloma could be that DM if we can find a left back elsewhere. 

A fit reid will be crucial to our future, and to our chances for Russia. 

This is my thoughts exactly. A good DM will be key for us. Hopefully we can see some good things from Payne or find a left back.
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over 12 years ago
Jezzaa wrote:
chefmivec wrote:
paulm wrote:
chefmivec wrote:

Sitting here eating my marmite toast thinking what could have been . not gonna dwell on it for much longer mexico were classy and they might just make the quarters ( as underdogs ).

Am looking forward to 2017 now . with this team minus a couple a new coach and a few tweaks here and there we could be a good contender for Russia.
I hate bagging him but durante was far to slow tonight.  and the Mexicans if hadn't known already figured it out pretty quickly.

Enjoyed seeing the mexico supporter get thrown out of the stadium tho . haha that woman probably thought she would be put back in her seat but nope see ya

 

Think it coulda been a lot different with Winston in there for these games, he's used to dealing with better and faster players than what the mexicans have. 


exactly .Winston could have been a game changer.


I don't agree, he wouldn't have created chances, that's what we lack. Mexico would have just to played harder in the 2nd half to ensure their victory as Reid would probably would have stopped more and organisaed our defence better,

stopped/intercepted more organised defence better . Seems like a game changer to me

I LOVE LAMP

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over 12 years ago
chefmivec wrote:
Jezzaa wrote:
chefmivec wrote:
paulm wrote:
chefmivec wrote:

Sitting here eating my marmite toast thinking what could have been . not gonna dwell on it for much longer mexico were classy and they might just make the quarters ( as underdogs ).

Am looking forward to 2017 now . with this team minus a couple a new coach and a few tweaks here and there we could be a good contender for Russia.
I hate bagging him but durante was far to slow tonight.  and the Mexicans if hadn't known already figured it out pretty quickly.

Enjoyed seeing the mexico supporter get thrown out of the stadium tho . haha that woman probably thought she would be put back in her seat but nope see ya

 

Think it coulda been a lot different with Winston in there for these games, he's used to dealing with better and faster players than what the mexicans have. 


exactly .Winston could have been a game changer.


I don't agree, he wouldn't have created chances, that's what we lack. Mexico would have just to played harder in the 2nd half to ensure their victory as Reid would probably would have stopped more and organisaed our defence better,

stopped/intercepted more organised defence better . Seems like a game changer to me

We would have still lost with him with those tactics. We may have conceded less, but still lose.  Do you really think our midfield and attack would trouble them if Winston was there?
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over 12 years ago

Don't know if it's been mentioned but on the telly the crowd came across as awesome. The noise was great throughout so interested to hear from those at the stadium how it felt - one would have expected the typical Kiwi crowd to give up at half time but I got the impression the support was there right to the end, so well done everyone. I think it reflects the effort the team put in

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over 12 years ago
Jezzaa wrote:

We would have still lost with him with those tactics. We may have conceded less, but still lose.  Do you really think our midfield and attack would trouble them if Winston was there?

I think the point is it would have given us a better chance. Just as they eased up slightly in the second half they could also start to falter if we were able to put them under pressure. We did create a few chances, but yes, it was always going to be tough with or without Winston.

It will be interesting to see how Mexico go in Brasil and whether these same players (and coach) are there and how many start. 
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over 12 years ago
paulm wrote:

havent gone back far into the thread to see if it's been discussed, but there was some shocking bottle-throwing going on tonight, embarrassing stuff to see them raining into the mexicans' area below YF



I used to get hassled on this forum years ago (under MR_TWIG) for advocating Ultra like behaviour for NZ matches, I guess all the greek football got to my head...but let me tell you of my experience at the match tonight.  I was shocked and appauled by the consistant racist and homophobic language (I can speak spanish) used by some of the mexican fans calling BILL TUILOMA a "NEGRO" (N*gg*r) and calling ROJAS a "MARIKON" (f*gg*t) FOR THE ENTIRE MATCH.........I told them in spanish this was not ok in NZ but as you can imagine i was laughed at by them. 

now let me ask you all,  is this ok?

PEACE AND LOVE PEOPLE, UNPLUG FROM THE MATRIX, SEE YOU AGAIN IN TIME....

 


man. thats the wrong side of the beautiful game, everywhere,.  you cant deny it, and the mexicans are all "pendejos",  wait and hope they face Argentina at the wc, we will get them in the face, with this team they wont be playing at altitude.,  nz couldnt  face the business around the mexican football the big names or rich drug lords and media and telecomunications tycoons around it in a country with 120 millon of population plus 40 million of them living in the USA, and 10 millon more around the globe.  I met mexicans in France and la Suisse and they hate argentinians just because they look europeans, thye have low self-esteem, that if you watch their tv they only put there the blonde people with blue eyes, to pretend to be gringos (italians, germans, irish, polish, galicians, dutch, french etc )
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over 12 years ago
threatD wrote:
brumbys wrote:
threatD wrote:
paulm wrote:

the prevailing thought during the game for me was 'man i wish we had more meaningful all whites games'

This. It actually seems like the public does as well...


And I will pay for someone to stab Mark Reason.


Agree wholeheartedly with both points.

I don't see a way forward without us moving to Asia. It means a harder qualification route, but it's going to get us regular competitive matches with much better competition. Away games are also easier to make as it's a beautiful half way point to meet logistically between northern and southern based players.

That aside I thought James/Roux/Kosta/Smith/Moss were excellent, Rojas and Smeltz looked sluggish and off the pace...

I also think you can sell WC qualifiers against decent teams a lot better than you can sell fridenlies against Jamaica. Not saying Jamaica is bad but the NZ public has no idea about them. If you can get the likes of China/Japan/Australia coming here for games that mean something id say youd get some pretty good crowds.

Given you'd be competing with these teams for qualifying those for the W/Cup, as well as the Asian Cup it would mean they're more than friendlies. Last nights attendance was caused because there was something riding on it, would we have sold out for a friendly VS Mexico on a Wednesday night? I'm not convinced.
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over 12 years ago
rjmiller wrote:
Jezzaa wrote:

We would have still lost with him with those tactics. We may have conceded less, but still lose.  Do you really think our midfield and attack would trouble them if Winston was there?

I think the point is it would have given us a better chance. Just as they eased up slightly in the second half they could also start to falter if we were able to put them under pressure. We did create a few chances, but yes, it was always going to be tough with or without Winston.


It will be interesting to see how Mexico go in Brasil and whether these same players (and coach) are there and how many start. 


Of course I would have preferred to have Winston there as well.  I just don't see how he would make any difference to the result, as our tactics we defensive and our midfield to attack links were not there. For a time in looked like Rojas just though he'd try to dribble past all of them, while he got sh*t for it, no one was available or creating space. We were completely closed out.
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over 12 years ago
happydays wrote:

Don't know if it's been mentioned but on the telly the crowd came across as awesome. The noise was great throughout so interested to hear from those at the stadium how it felt - one would have expected the typical Kiwi crowd to give up at half time but I got the impression the support was there right to the end, so well done everyone. I think it reflects the effort the team put in

Stadium went off as it does..at the start it was expectation based, then reality hapned..2 quick goals and it became cheer anyway.  Second half was go for teh draw cheering.

Biggest cheer was when we won first penalty..you would have thought we had won the game.  Then groans as it was realised who was stepping up lol.

Not many left which is great as we look to the future.

Obvious to me that Rojas and Smeltz were not match fit so had quiet games.  impressed with James Henderson Tuiloma nd Roux(perhaps less tha others)

A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen

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over 12 years ago
Boro4eva wrote:
happydays wrote:

Don't know if it's been mentioned but on the telly the crowd came across as awesome. The noise was great throughout so interested to hear from those at the stadium how it felt - one would have expected the typical Kiwi crowd to give up at half time but I got the impression the support was there right to the end, so well done everyone. I think it reflects the effort the team put in

Stadium went off as it does..at the start it was expectation based, then reality hapned..2 quick goals and it became cheer anyway.  Second half was go for teh draw cheering.

Biggest cheer was when we won first penalty..you would have thought we had won the game.  Then groans as it was realised who was stepping up lol.

Not many left which is great as we look to the future.

Obvious to me that Rojas and Smeltz were not match fit so had quiet games.  impressed with James Henderson Tuiloma nd Roux(perhaps less tha others)

you should have gone yourself.

I LOVE LAMP

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over 12 years ago
happydays wrote:

Don't know if it's been mentioned but on the telly the crowd came across as awesome. The noise was great throughout so interested to hear from those at the stadium how it felt - one would have expected the typical Kiwi crowd to give up at half time but I got the impression the support was there right to the end, so well done everyone. I think it reflects the effort the team put in

Atmosphere in the crowd was awesome (where I sat anyway). Especially the first 13 minutes (till they scored), and that patch where we nicked a couple and brought it back to 3-2. Lots of chanting and noise. The great thing was that everyone knew that we had no chance of going through, but got into it anyway. I was stoked that the AWs decided to have a go, despite shipping a few (and I'm convinced we would have if sitting back anyway) it made it an exciting game to watch, which is important for the 25k odd that don't turn up to a lot of football games.
All in all, a really good night. Which I didn't really expect, and wouldn't expect going to a game we lost 4-2.
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over 12 years ago
paulm wrote:

havent gone back far into the thread to see if it's been discussed, but there was some shocking bottle-throwing going on tonight, embarrassing stuff to see them raining into the mexicans' area below YF


This. Was embarrassing and the few people that booed Ricki and the Mexican players at the end of the game 
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over 12 years ago
threatD wrote:
paulm wrote:

I thought the game was very promising. 

James has surprised me a lot in this tie. He and weemac in front of a DM with kosta/marco wide and wood or brockie up front, that should be able to trouble many a decent international side. The next layer of youth appears promising as well at this stage, with thomas, rufer, ridenton etc etc. Perhaps tuiloma could be that DM if we can find a left back elsewhere. 

A fit reid will be crucial to our future, and to our chances for Russia. 

This is my thoughts exactly. A good DM will be key for us. Hopefully we can see some good things from Payne or find a left back.

This
A good DM is needed to give the midfield defense a bit of starch. IMO the real hope in this area is Tuiloma. Marseille are grooming him as a DM. They think that this will be his best position. He has played most of his matches there. Over the 2 years of his contract he will get very got training for this position. I have watched him play there in the U19 Champions League against Arsenal and Naples. He is a very robust tackler, reads a game well. But what the OM coaches like about him is his distribution. He has that Elliot like ability to pass with either foot. He also tends to pass mainly forward. It is still early days yet as he is only 18.....but come the next WC campaign he could be our man in that position.

If Tuiloma finishes as a DM we will need to sort out RB/LB. Roux and Fenton were excellent going forward but need some fine tuning on defense. This ideally would be the best combo IMO but it depends how well Fenton converts...he still has some work to do. If he did not make it then Roux back to RB and who knows after that.......do we have another look at Hogg?
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over 12 years ago

And 35.600 ish on a Wednesday night .woaha . Wednesday

I LOVE LAMP

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over 12 years ago

P.S. interested whether people who watch Mexico a bit think that the new coach has made a bit of a difference since the qualifying rounds. They certainly didn't seem to be the rabble they were talked about as under previous coaches, and wondering whether that is due to the new coach, strength of opposition (i.e. us), or both?

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
threatD wrote:

My problem with Brockie is he doesnt really fit in to any sort of strategy we've come up with. He is not great with his head so that tactic was never going to favour him, and he cant hold up the ball that well. He doesnt fit in a lineup with the likes of Rojas and Costa because his off the ball running isnt that effective and gets caught offside far too often (not an issue last night however). I just think whatever strategy we go with there are better options than Brockie. 

I genuinely have no idea what sort of team works for him either. Calling him heartless and lazy isnt fair, he clearly gives everything for the  All Whites. 

I think I agree with a fair bit of that. He is not a man in the air or gonna blast from 30 out nor he is not a back to goal target man that plays with a man running off him. He makes his own from broken play. He would have slotted in well in the Mexican team because they counter with pace and that's probably where Brockie is at his best, on the run with a back line back tracking.

The amount of aerial balls that Roux put in the box (and Harry on TV saying "What is he doing?") was phenomenal and I think he may have been used to firing at Wood and Fallon all week. Smeltz and Brockie are not those type of strikers. I think last night though, when you take out the aerial balls, he stayed onside and there was not as many chances as people think, I think he is taking a bad rap because of the penalty miss and thus, in some peoples minds, he was shit all night. He did make a couple of telling runs and got the ball but there was not many of those balls coming through to make those runs because Roux was hoisting it and cutting out Marco who delivers those style of balls to run onto.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History

The Mexican fan's down in aisle 7 were excellent. In fact most I met before the gsme were extremely friendly. Ok, winning does make you friendly but they were good winners. I am disappointed a looney few targeted them with bottles up in aisle 21. Very poor form and shows us as bad losers. We are better than that. 

Frankly, the All Whites need 4 or 5 gsmes per year against quality sides like Mexico if they are to improve. Not some waste of time trip to the USA to play a couple of hastily arranged club sides.

This Mexican team showed to their manager that by playing his local based plsyers he has strength in his squad. With their foreign based players, they could do well in Brazil. 

The playing conditions were perfect last night, instead of thr hoped for very cold southerly that might have given us an edge. A much better improvement and I hope Rickis successor keeps thr younger  players together. Our left back did extremely well on his international debut and I hope he ends up as the Phoenix left bsck if he continues to play like this.

Sorry about my spelling, getting used to a touch screen keyboard.

Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 12 years ago
hlmphil wrote:

P.S. interested whether people who watch Mexico a bit think that the new coach has made a bit of a difference since the qualifying rounds. They certainly didn't seem to be the rabble they were talked about as under previous coaches, and wondering whether that is due to the new coach, strength of opposition (i.e. us), or both?

I'm curious about that as well. Had not seen any of their earlier qualifiers.
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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
Jeff Vader wrote:

Good posts. I am sure a few of us were sitting there going "Man, I wish we had more" (being attacking brand of football, more games or just more!)

 

Smeltz probably is the guy you want taking the kicks but both him and Brockie are strikers.... one or the other should be able to do it and while he missed it, it was not detrimental to the result other than people going "BROCKIE SUX" like kids. I still do not begrudge him the opportunity to take it and get that monkey off his back. We now will carry him into another game still sitting on a duck....


I also don't get why Brockie is getting ragged on. All I see is "BROCKIE SUX" but no one is saying why. Yes he missed a penalty but I thought he ran himself about up top a lot harrowing them when we did not have the ball and made a couple of good runs to get in good positions (the penalty and also one from the other side where he tried to chip the keeper) Bearing in mind there was a lot of cross ball action and Brockie doesn't score with his head, he was not exactly getting much in the way of service. I'm struggling to see why people are ragging on his ass so badly - Smeltz was ineffectual but he gets the 'Oh well he has been injured' pass. It seems to me (without anyone saying why) that he is the games' scapegoat and I actually thought that as his first game up front for the AWs (in a position he plays for club rather than this right half stuff) it was one of his better games in the white shirt.

Still, I'm keen to engage on the debate against why people think Brockie was so shit. I think a lot of it is people piggy backing on Brockie because he does disappear in games (and I have called him out a few times) that he must always disappear in games.



i think brockie did ok, bar the penalty, but i deeply think that his versatility is good, but he is lacking that killing edge up front, because he needs to re adjust himself to the forward place, the guy has played right back, right midfielder, right forward, left back, left midfielder, forward, and yesterday second striker o media punta like they say in Italy
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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History
austin10 wrote:
threatD wrote:
paulm wrote:

I thought the game was very promising. 

James has surprised me a lot in this tie. He and weemac in front of a DM with kosta/marco wide and wood or brockie up front, that should be able to trouble many a decent international side. The next layer of youth appears promising as well at this stage, with thomas, rufer, ridenton etc etc. Perhaps tuiloma could be that DM if we can find a left back elsewhere. 

A fit reid will be crucial to our future, and to our chances for Russia. 

This is my thoughts exactly. A good DM will be key for us. Hopefully we can see some good things from Payne or find a left back.


This

A good DM is needed to give the midfield defense a bit of starch. IMO the real hope in this area is Tuiloma. Marseille are grooming him as a DM. They think that this will be his best position. He has played most of his matches there. Over the 2 years of his contract he will get very got training for this position. I have watched him play there in the U19 Champions League against Arsenal and Naples. He is a very robust tackler, reads a game well. But what the OM coaches like about him is his distribution. He has that Elliot like ability to pass with either foot. He also tends to pass mainly forward. It is still early days yet as he is only 18.....but come the next WC campaign he could be our man in that position.


If Tuiloma finishes as a DM we will need to sort out RB/LB. Roux and Fenton were excellent going forward but need some fine tuning on defense. This ideally would be the best combo IMO but it depends how well Fenton converts...he still has some work to do. If he did not make it then Roux back to RB and who knows after that.......do we have another look at Hogg?

See I am happy to leave him at LB. I think the ones you look at for the DM role is Payne or Keat. I think if Payne was fit, he would have started in front of Durante and Smith and one of Brockie or Smeltz rides the pine.

Tuiloma was left sided for Birkenhead and other sides and its only recently he is playing there for Marseille. Granted they know a lot more about football than I do but I think he stays there. I think he is a much better international LB than Hogg and I only needed 45 mins to figure that out (as much has Hogg has come on very well over the last 18 months)

If you put out a team in 4 years time that looked like this

         Moss/Spoonley

Roux Reid Smith Tuiloma

          Payne  James

Rojas      McGlinchy    Kosta

              Wood

Thats not a bad side you know. Some people will come and go because of form but as a base to develop, that's not bad.

 

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 12 years ago
paulm wrote:

bottles thrown from multiple areas, directed at mexicans, lots hitting targets

my friend became incensed and went to complain to police, was not satisfied with their response, so went over to people he saw throwing them and told them to stop, police then intervened and kicked the throwers out, as well as my friend

bottles continued to be thrown after that as well



Yep saw plenty of that as well, including full bottles. I didn't see who threw them just saw them sailing through the crowd at the Mexicans.

Also is a Mexican wave ok at a football game if its started by Mexicans?
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over 12 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:

Good posts. I am sure a few of us were sitting there going "Man, I wish we had more" (being attacking brand of football, more games or just more!)

 

Smeltz probably is the guy you want taking the kicks but both him and Brockie are strikers.... one or the other should be able to do it and while he missed it, it was not detrimental to the result other than people going "BROCKIE SUX" like kids. I still do not begrudge him the opportunity to take it and get that monkey off his back. We now will carry him into another game still sitting on a duck....


I also don't get why Brockie is getting ragged on. All I see is "BROCKIE SUX" but no one is saying why. Yes he missed a penalty but I thought he ran himself about up top a lot harrowing them when we did not have the ball and made a couple of good runs to get in good positions (the penalty and also one from the other side where he tried to chip the keeper) Bearing in mind there was a lot of cross ball action and Brockie doesn't score with his head, he was not exactly getting much in the way of service. I'm struggling to see why people are ragging on his ass so badly - Smeltz was ineffectual but he gets the 'Oh well he has been injured' pass. It seems to me (without anyone saying why) that he is the games' scapegoat and I actually thought that as his first game up front for the AWs (in a position he plays for club rather than this right half stuff) it was one of his better games in the white shirt.

Still, I'm keen to engage on the debate against why people think Brockie was so shit. I think a lot of it is people piggy backing on Brockie because he does disappear in games (and I have called him out a few times) that he must always disappear in games.

I thought Brockie made a lot of dumb runs.  There were times when we had Marco or Kosta making a play forward and I swear Brockie's runs were about the worst possible to set up any interplay with them.  At one point I was shouting at him that he was running away from supporting the player and allowing anything to be created; and when he was their only option.  I agree he worked fairly hard, but I thought Rory made Brockies work rate definately look only fair when he came on.  Fallon made himself available and managed a lot of one twos and dropped quite deep a number of times to help a struggling defence and mid; I don't recall seeing anywhere near as much of that from Brockie, which is not the same as saying Brockie did none of that.  And I guess you have to allow for the 90min player versus the impact of a sub.  But seems to me it is the football intelligence of his play and his ability to work with his team mates that is less than you'd want. Combined with his incapability over a long period of time to score international goals any other way.  Smeltz has a track record of international production.  Brockie does not.

I don't particularly want to bag Brockie as he was part of a team that really put in a good shift for the flag, and I think every man was doing their best on the night, but I do agree with those that have said that Durante and Brockie were the two least impressive and least impactful on the pitch.  Smeltz does deserve to be in that bracket or close to it on the night, and there would be one or two others a step or two behind on the least impactful ladder.  Did Brockie do nothing of value, no.  Did he have a great game, no.  Was he one of the weaker links, arguably yes.  

But did Brockie and everybody else out there create something that was worth getting along to watch and enjoy, even if we are not world beaters? Yes. Was it a great night; weather, end to end play, crowd involvement, skill, pace and teamwork from the Mexicans and more than a few kiwis?  Yes.  Would it be great if we could have more? Heck yes.  Could we get that sort of a crowd in Wellington and Auckland and/or Christchurch every year for a couple of decent AWs games and could NZF break even on them at least.  You would hope so.  
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over 12 years ago
Ryan wrote:
paulm wrote:

bottles thrown from multiple areas, directed at mexicans, lots hitting targets

my friend became incensed and went to complain to police, was not satisfied with their response, so went over to people he saw throwing them and told them to stop, police then intervened and kicked the throwers out, as well as my friend

bottles continued to be thrown after that as well



Yep saw plenty of that as well, including full bottles. I didn't see who threw them just saw them sailing through the crowd at the Mexicans.

Also is a Mexican wave ok at a football game if its started by Mexicans?

At first i thought it was hilariously ironic, but then I loved how into it they were - stamping their feet the whole time until it got back round to them, watching it with excitement and loving it when it was their turn. It's become so ho-hum at NZ sport, a distraction to the action, but the mexicans made me love it like the first time I ever saw it at the basin when i was a youngster.
Still didnt join in, mind

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over 12 years ago

I was quite surprised coming in on the train to see so many people in All Whites Clobber who I've never seen at a Phoenix match. What's that all about?

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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History

I now know why Durante is playing for NZ. 

Like any team if we could have our top 11 in the peak of playing ability, we would have a very good team. The problem is the depth and currently certain positions. I would prefer a 4-3-3 formation with the front three being Kosta, Woods, Rojas. Last night with having the four attackers the balance wasnt quite right. Cant answer who the three midfielders would be as our options are probably not at the same level as the front three. Backs will develop keep the three and sub from last night and Reid instead of Durante. 

(I started typing before JVs earlier post, I like the look of his suggested midfield)

We all bag NZF but one of the best decisions they have made is to stay in Oceania, the development of players has improved dramatically and a contributing factor is our attendence at FIFA age tournaments. The pathway options have increased, US Varsity, AUS Leagues, traditional UK options and now we are seeing players going to European leagues.

Life could be better but it isnt that bad!!!

"Who ate all the pies"

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over 12 years ago
Dino11 wrote:

We all bag NZF but one of the best decisions they have made is to stay in Oceania, the development of players has improved dramatically and a contributing factor is our attendence at FIFA age tournaments. The pathway options have increased, US Varsity, AUS Leagues, traditional UK options and now we are seeing players going to European leagues.


If we were in Asia we would would be playing many, many more games against quality teams. Oceania is good for easy qualification money, it is not good for player development.

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over 12 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:
austin10 wrote:
threatD wrote:
paulm wrote:

I thought the game was very promising. 

James has surprised me a lot in this tie. He and weemac in front of a DM with kosta/marco wide and wood or brockie up front, that should be able to trouble many a decent international side. The next layer of youth appears promising as well at this stage, with thomas, rufer, ridenton etc etc. Perhaps tuiloma could be that DM if we can find a left back elsewhere. 

A fit reid will be crucial to our future, and to our chances for Russia. 

This is my thoughts exactly. A good DM will be key for us. Hopefully we can see some good things from Payne or find a left back.


This

A good DM is needed to give the midfield defense a bit of starch. IMO the real hope in this area is Tuiloma. Marseille are grooming him as a DM. They think that this will be his best position. He has played most of his matches there. Over the 2 years of his contract he will get very got training for this position. I have watched him play there in the U19 Champions League against Arsenal and Naples. He is a very robust tackler, reads a game well. But what the OM coaches like about him is his distribution. He has that Elliot like ability to pass with either foot. He also tends to pass mainly forward. It is still early days yet as he is only 18.....but come the next WC campaign he could be our man in that position.


If Tuiloma finishes as a DM we will need to sort out RB/LB. Roux and Fenton were excellent going forward but need some fine tuning on defense. This ideally would be the best combo IMO but it depends how well Fenton converts...he still has some work to do. If he did not make it then Roux back to RB and who knows after that.......do we have another look at Hogg?

See I am happy to leave him at LB. I think the ones you look at for the DM role is Payne or Keat. I think if Payne was fit, he would have started in front of Durante and Smith and one of Brockie or Smeltz rides the pine.

Tuiloma was left sided for Birkenhead and other sides and its only recently he is playing there for Marseille. Granted they know a lot more about football than I do but I think he stays there. I think he is a much better international LB than Hogg and I only needed 45 mins to figure that out (as much has Hogg has come on very well over the last 18 months)

If you put out a team in 4 years time that looked like this

         Moss/Spoonley

Roux Reid Smith Tuiloma

          Payne  James

Rojas      McGlinchy    Kosta

              Wood

Thats not a bad side you know. Some people will come and go because of form but as a base to develop, that's not bad.

 


I quite like that team.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 12 years ago

Enjoyable night and to anyone saying players lacked desire or commitment. ..BOLLOCKS... yes some of them may have not played well on the night or are simply not up to international level but to say they lacked desire is ludicrous.

Above all else these last two games highlight the difference between 16 in the world and 86 in the world.

On the subject of Ricki has the last two years been rough? Yes. Has he left the all whites in a better state than when he took over .... a resounding yes . So Ricki time to nove on but thanks for what you

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over 12 years ago

There should be players named by the coach to shoot the penalty, if he was named as the that man, he should also kicked the second one. That penalty will hunt Brockie, it was just bad shot. Hope he learns from it for the next big game.

I thought Kosta looked very fast and dangerous forward.

I had a good time, crowed was good (except those bottle throwing idiots) Mexican fans very likeable.

The result was pretty much was I expected: Mexico win. All Whites showed up, worked hard to get some respect back. I'm happy.

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over 12 years ago

It is a bit of a conundrum - oceania without australia is  great for our womens and age-grade sides, but we lack competition for the men senior team, naturally the flagship of a country's football organisation.

This stuff has  been done to death elsewhere but personally I'd leave us in the confederation, but put the winner of mens oceania WC qualifying into the final asian stages rather than just a play-off.

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over 12 years ago
Jeff Vader wrote:
austin10 wrote:
threatD wrote:
paulm wrote:

I thought the game was very promising. 

James has surprised me a lot in this tie. He and weemac in front of a DM with kosta/marco wide and wood or brockie up front, that should be able to trouble many a decent international side. The next layer of youth appears promising as well at this stage, with thomas, rufer, ridenton etc etc. Perhaps tuiloma could be that DM if we can find a left back elsewhere. 

A fit reid will be crucial to our future, and to our chances for Russia. 

This is my thoughts exactly. A good DM will be key for us. Hopefully we can see some good things from Payne or find a left back.


This

A good DM is needed to give the midfield defense a bit of starch. IMO the real hope in this area is Tuiloma. Marseille are grooming him as a DM. They think that this will be his best position. He has played most of his matches there. Over the 2 years of his contract he will get very got training for this position. I have watched him play there in the U19 Champions League against Arsenal and Naples. He is a very robust tackler, reads a game well. But what the OM coaches like about him is his distribution. He has that Elliot like ability to pass with either foot. He also tends to pass mainly forward. It is still early days yet as he is only 18.....but come the next WC campaign he could be our man in that position.


If Tuiloma finishes as a DM we will need to sort out RB/LB. Roux and Fenton were excellent going forward but need some fine tuning on defense. This ideally would be the best combo IMO but it depends how well Fenton converts...he still has some work to do. If he did not make it then Roux back to RB and who knows after that.......do we have another look at Hogg?

See I am happy to leave him at LB. I think the ones you look at for the DM role is Payne or Keat. I think if Payne was fit, he would have started in front of Durante and Smith and one of Brockie or Smeltz rides the pine.

Tuiloma was left sided for Birkenhead and other sides and its only recently he is playing there for Marseille. Granted they know a lot more about football than I do but I think he stays there. I think he is a much better international LB than Hogg and I only needed 45 mins to figure that out (as much has Hogg has come on very well over the last 18 months)

If you put out a team in 4 years time that looked like this

         Moss/Spoonley

Roux Reid Smith Tuiloma

          Payne  James

Rojas      McGlinchy    Kosta

              Wood

Thats not a bad side you know. Some people will come and go because of form but as a base to develop, that's not bad.

 



I really like your team, Moss will be avail he is young for a keeper can play up to 38 if they want to.
the reserves also keepers Basalaj and Gleeson  def  Boxall, Fitzgerald, Hogg, Fenton, mids Keat, Clapham, Henderson, attackers Brockie, Howieson, the guy in Holland, Boyd. all players u-26, and think about 5/6 players coming around this time, you have like 25 players that are ready or getting ready, just need a guy that can give them craft, and wants to develop further this flair and talent
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over 12 years ago

Must admit I fully enjoyed the game last night in the end. Thought that we get murdered after the first 30...no real cohesion between smith and Durante....and I dont fulkly lay all the blame for this on Durante, i thought that Smith wasnt that good either. Tuiloma and Roux played well as did james (which surprised me a little). Come the second half NZ clearly held their own and at time pressured the mexicans quite well, not sure if this was because the mexicans eased off or whether we upped our game considerably. Clearly this mexican side is far better than they have showed in the qualifiers and I look forward to seeing them at the world cup. Despite the result I enjoyed the night (save for the wankers who were throwing bottles somewhere between aisles 20 and 21)

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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over 12 years ago
ForteanTimes wrote:

I was quite surprised coming in on the train to see so many people in All Whites Clobber who I've never seen at a Phoenix match. What's that all about?

everyone likes a party Robin...shame some of those guys dont come and watch the nix (not in white clearly)

" If you only have a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail" - maslow

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over 12 years ago
Marto wrote:
james dean wrote:

Did anyone think that Chris James looked a little...chunky?

He always has hasn't he?

YEah talk he turned up overweight to a camp once. Ricki wasn't impressed and hence why he wasn't involved with the All Whites for so long.
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over 12 years ago

Ricki implying it might have been a player who didnt play who leaked info to Veitch re: Herbert not talking to players after Mex loss? Clapham perhaps?


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over 12 years ago
hlmphil wrote:

P.S. interested whether people who watch Mexico a bit think that the new coach has made a bit of a difference since the qualifying rounds. They certainly didn't seem to be the rabble they were talked about as under previous coaches, and wondering whether that is due to the new coach, strength of opposition (i.e. us), or both?

I do think that Miguel Herrera has made a rather large impact on the team since taking over.  As a traditional, and for most of CONCACAF's history the only, regional power Mexico has earned a (rather well deserved) reputation for being arrogant combined with things just falling into place and working out for them when they have seldom found themselves in a tough situation.  They for the most part have never had to "grind it out" in CONCACAF nor build a program like the US, Costa Rica and Honduras have.

Until recently, most Mexican players stayed in Mexico.  During the 2006 World Cup, only four players on their squad plied their trade outside of Mexico, one of which was playing for Chivas USA, MLS's Mexican team.  Mexico always had great players, but they were never superstars in the way that Chicharito, Giovanni Dos Santos and Andrés Guardado are and they always had to fight for their position on the team.  To be fair, the FMF wasn't a total corrupted clusterf*ck like it is now.  What Miguel has done is basically sent a shot across the bow of all the Mexican players by showing that just because you ride the bench for ManU most of the year does not mean you automatically play or make that squad for that matter.  In addition, this provided and excellent opportunity for the guys on the fringe of the national team, that they normally would not have, to book their ticket to Brazil.  He showed everyone that regular Liga MX players are perfectly capable of doing what they have traditionally done, qualify with Mexican league players.

Most experts agree that this is not the team that will show up in Brazil.  They are an all-star club team, but certainly not a national team.  All these guys that Miguel selected were in form, most make their living by playing with each other day in and day out, and his comments about the travel and adjusting to the altitude of Mexico City were legitimate in my opinion.  He made the best team from the best immediately available players, which unfortunately are head and shoulders above the current crop of All Whites in terms of technical ability, form and shape.

I know you guys are feeling in the dumps, and I hate to pile on, but in all sincerity, I am not sure if the All Whites would have made it into the final round of qualifying (the hex) if you were in Concacaf.  If you had, I suspect you would have gone the route of Jamaica.  While most of the US fans would have loved to have seen Mexico implode even further, most never seriously thought that they wouldn't make it through to Brazil.
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over 12 years ago · edited over 12 years ago · History

2ndBest wrote:
Marto wrote:
james dean wrote:
Did anyone think that Chris James looked a little...chunky?
He always has hasn't he?
Yeah talk he turned up overweight to a camp once. Ricki wasn't impressed and hence why he wasn't involved with the All Whites for so long.
That was the one in 2009 and he left half way through it?

He has the talent no doubt. I wonder what more he could produce with perhaps 5 kgs slipped on. Mind you, he does strike me as the kind of guy that like a beer, a fag and not scared on speaking his mind.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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over 12 years ago
EL TV wrote:

Ricki implying it might have been a player who didnt play who leaked info to Veitch re: Herbert not talking to players after Mex loss? Clapham perhaps?

You would be more inclined to thing that if Veitch is in Auckland as is his mate, then the footballer would be Auckland based.

Grumpy old bastard alert

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