Exactly.... just waiting for someone to say it is unlikely he was designated to take it because it was such a poor spot kick!
All Whites, Ferns, and other international teams
Vs Mexico 2nd Leg Wed 20th 7:00pm SS1
919 replies
·
117,468 views
And to add to that, Smeltz was really poor in that game too.
I'm sure Worthington will write an article saying there wasn't a designated taker at all.
Permalink
Permalink
[quote=patrick478]
The only other realistic option for the designated penalty taker is Smeltz, who has a history of missing them in high pressure situations (see: NZ vs Honduras, penalty missed in 90th minute) [/quote]
That was a friendly. Pretty much the opposite of high pressure.
Three for me, and two for them.
Permalink
Permalink
[quote=patrick478]
The only other realistic option for the designated penalty taker is Smeltz, who has a history of missing them in high pressure situations (see: NZ vs Honduras, penalty missed in 90th minute) [/quote]
That was a friendly. Pretty much the opposite of high pressure.
That makes it even worse, doesn't it?
Historically it appears that defenders make good penalty takers (OK, I do not have a reference ready to support it) as they are less likely to engage in risky "mind games". They often have just one way of scoring (low, hard shot near the post), but do it reliably every time.
Italian Serie A defenders of years gone by come to mind, as do many Bundesliga ones.
You could argue that strikers are naturally "wired" differently from the centrebacks. I recall a number of high-pressure settings where the striker was the one that scuffed the penalty. Think of Mark Viduka against Uruguay in Sydney in 2005 second leg (he shot over the bar).
In contrast, Alessandro Del Piero is so relaxed at this stage of his career (he is 39) he hasn't missed any in A-League that I know of (but correct me if I am wrong).
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
Permalink
Permalink
[quote=patrick478]
The only other realistic option for the designated penalty taker is Smeltz, who has a history of missing them in high pressure situations (see: NZ vs Honduras, penalty missed in 90th minute) [/quote]
That was a friendly. Pretty much the opposite of high pressure.
That makes it worse, doesn't it?
Historically it appears that defenders make good penalty takers (OK, I do not have a reference ready to support it) as they are less likely to engage in risky "mind games". They often have just one way of scoring (low shot near the post), but do it reliably every time.
Italian Serie A defenders of years gone by come to mind, as do many Bundesliga ones.
Good Penalty takers , make good Penalty Takers!
Permalink
Permalink
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11160552
Burgess ratings. Very harsh on Roux I thought
I actually agree with him. I think maybe it was one of those things where it looks different on TV than from the ground. Having got home from the game I was surprised people were talking about Roux as nearly the MotM for us, as from where I was sitting he was probably the worst of the back four on defense, especially during the first half. A lot of potential yes, and looked ok going forward, but was very shaky defensively.
Permalink
Permalink
[quote=patrick478]
The only other realistic option for the designated penalty taker is Smeltz, who has a history of missing them in high pressure situations (see: NZ vs Honduras, penalty missed in 90th minute) [/quote]
That was a friendly. Pretty much the opposite of high pressure.
That makes it worse, doesn't it?
Historically it appears that defenders make good penalty takers (OK, I do not have a reference ready to support it) as they are less likely to engage in risky "mind games". They often have just one way of scoring (low shot near the post), but do it reliably every time.
Italian Serie A defenders of years gone by come to mind, as do many Bundesliga ones.
I checked from a guy who should now it, legendary Andy Brehme. He took the Penalty for the 1:0 World Cup win Germany vs Argentina. He's a left back.
Andy said: Three guys where on the list to take penalty's: Rudi Voeller, Lothar Matthaeus and him. Rudi got down in the box and the fouled never should take it. Lothar didn't want to. So he took the ball and put it in.
He shot more than one penalty's in that tournament, one with the left and the final with right foot.
Permalink
Permalink
[quote=patrick478]
The only other realistic option for the designated penalty taker is Smeltz, who has a history of missing them in high pressure situations (see: NZ vs Honduras, penalty missed in 90th minute) [/quote]
That was a friendly. Pretty much the opposite of high pressure.
That makes it worse, doesn't it?
Historically it appears that defenders make good penalty takers (OK, I do not have a reference ready to support it) as they are less likely to engage in risky "mind games". They often have just one way of scoring (low shot near the post), but do it reliably every time.
Italian Serie A defenders of years gone by come to mind, as do many Bundesliga ones.
I checked from a guy who should now it, legendary Andy Brehme. He took the Penalty for the 1:0 World Cup win Germany vs Argentina. He's a left back.
Andy said: Three guys where on the list to take penalty's: Rudi Voeller, Lothar Matthaeus and him. Rudi got down in the box and the fouled never should take it. Lothar didn't want to. So he took the ball and put it in.
He shot more than one penalty's in that tournament, one with the left and the final with right foot.
They are still looking for the ball after Stuart Pearce took one in penalty shootout in Italia 1990. Sergio Ramos was not that flash a year or so ago
Permalink
Permalink
They are still looking for the ball after Stuart Pearce took one in penalty shootout in Italia 1990. Sergio Ramos was not that flash a year or so ago
In the Semi , Pearce's shot was low and straight ..saved by the keepers legs...Chris Waddles penalty was hit into row Z
Permalink
Permalink
They are still looking for the ball after Stuart Pearce took one in penalty shootout in Italia 1990. Sergio Ramos was not that flash a year or so ago
In the Semi , Pearce's shot was low and straight ..saved by the keepers legs...Chris Waddles penalty was hit into row Z
Quite right
Permalink
Permalink
[quote=patrick478]
The only other realistic option for the designated penalty taker is Smeltz, who has a history of missing them in high pressure situations (see: NZ vs Honduras, penalty missed in 90th minute) [/quote]
That was a friendly. Pretty much the opposite of high pressure.
That makes it even worse, doesn't it?
Historically it appears that defenders make good penalty takers (OK, I do not have a reference ready to support it) as they are less likely to engage in risky "mind games". They often have just one way of scoring (low, hard shot near the post), but do it reliably every time.
Italian Serie A defenders of years gone by come to mind, as do many Bundesliga ones.
You could argue that strikers are naturally "wired" differently from the centrebacks. I recall a number of high-pressure settings where the striker was the one that scuffed the penalty. Think of Mark Viduka against Uruguay in Sydney in 2005 second leg (he shot over the bar).
In contrast, Alessandro Del Piero is so relaxed at this stage of his career (he is 39) he hasn't missed any in A-League that I know of (but correct me if I am wrong).
Del Piero (from one of the links below): "The Italian legend had a fantastic penalty record for Juventus and the Italian national team, but he has blotted his record somewhat by missing two of his five penalties last season for Sydney FC. This leaves him with a career record of 61 from 65 attempts, a conversion rate of 94%."
Currently stats seem to suggest the best penalty takers currently playing in Europe's top leagues are mostly strikers.
Historically some strikers don't (hardly) ever miss: Rickie Lambert = 32 from 32 for Southampton; Matt Le Tissier 47 from 48 for Southampton; Mario Balotelli = one miss in his career so far
Top 15 world-wide based on stats: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1324429-ranking-the-15-best-penalty-takers-in-world-football
Top ten in top five UEFA leagues: http://talksport.com/football/european-footballs-penalty-kings-revealed-130911596
Good top ten list: http://www.thesubsbench.ca/top-ten-penalty-takers/
Here's the Daily Mail's list of the top 50 in world football ( starts with positions 10-1 and has links to the other positions in lots of ten):
Big Pete 65, Christchurch
Permalink
Permalink
They are still looking for the ball after Stuart Pearce took one in penalty shootout in Italia 1990. Sergio Ramos was not that flash a year or so ago
In the Semi , Pearce's shot was low and straight ..saved by the keepers legs...Chris Waddles penalty was hit into row Z
Grumpy old bastard alert
Permalink
Permalink
I watched the replay on tv again and Roux was superb. I can see why Arnold has been talking him up, this kid could have potentially even played for Australia if he keeps up his current form. At least we've capped him and I'm sure he will be a solid fullback for us in the future. James and Kosta were the other standouts for me. All Kosta is missing is a little bit of composure to release the ball at the right time, sometimes he takes one touch too many, but other than that he looked great. James well a truly bossed the midfield. He was pretty much playing a deep lying playmaker role, picking up the ball from the defence and also an advanced playmaker role, controlling the ball in the opposition half. He was brilliant. I don't think I've ever seen a NZ midfielder have so much time and composure on the ball, normally we would have hoofed it up field under moderate pressing from the opposition. Mcglinchy seemed to play a lot better with James in there too.
Permalink
Permalink
Historically it appears that defenders make good penalty takers (
One who stands out for me, and I watched him live quite a bit, was Ray Stewart of West Ham.
Boy , they stayed hit when he took pens.
According to wikipedia he scored 81/86 pens
Permalink
Permalink
Just back from an epic weekend in Welly, you guys sure know how to party. Weird being in a city that has a nightlife and an actual city centre.
And all is not lost! Despite not winning the game I came home a winner as a drunken Feverish gave me a wee peck on the cheek.
Boom.
I let my guitar speak for me
Permalink
Permalink
brockie should have been taken off for grabbing ball and missing penalty.very selfish attitude no thought of team and agreed penalty taker.41 games and counting.as for Herbert saying they exposed the Mexicans you were already 7 behind and playing a team without any European players.
So you know that Brockie wasn't the designated Penalty taker? Is that published in the program or something?
Probably not a bad assumption that he wasn't.
In the scheme of things he had the right to claim the first option on the pen.
Smeltz was talking to him prior to the kick, wonder if he gave him advice or was simply trying to persuade him to give it to him...
Permalink
Permalink
Just back from an epic weekend in Welly, you guys sure know how to party. Weird being in a city that has a nightlife and an actual city centre.
And all is not lost! Despite not winning the game I came home a winner as a drunken Feverish gave me a wee peck on the cheek.
Boom.
He scores when he wants
He scores when he wa-a-ants
Wharfies' Feverish
He scores when he wants
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Permalink
Permalink
Smeltz may have passed given injury lay off and lack of game time..might not have been keen to hit it hard. He had a poor game anyway.
A small town in Europe........looking to bounce straight back up....well that aint going to happen
Permalink
Permalink
I was quite surprised coming in on the train to see so many people in All Whites Clobber who I've never seen at a Phoenix match.
Are you the Eye of Sauron ?
Permalink
Permalink
The only other realistic option for the designated penalty taker is Smeltz, who has a history of missing them in high pressure situations (see: NZ vs Honduras, penalty missed in 90th minute, Glory vs Victory, penalty hit onto the crossbar in the 89th minute of a playoff which would have put Perth through to the semifinals).
Out of the two players that could potentially take penalties, why would you choose the one that has a history of being worse at them in important games?
I think the chance that Brockie was the designated penalty taker was quite high.
When Smeltz was at the Nix he was pretty reliable from memory. Sure he's missed a few (the ones above + the first pre-season cup final...) but generally he takes them pretty well. I was very surprised when Brockie took it.
Permalink
Permalink
I think we all agree the man who hasn't scored in 41 games should not be the first to the ball when a penalty is given.....and if he is he should be shot so someone else can take it
Queenslander 3x a year.
Permalink
Permalink
There is usually one or two players that are designated for penalty kicks and it is up to the person at the time who is playing well and confident.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
Permalink
Permalink
There is usually one or two players that are designated for penalty kicks and it is up to the person at the time who is playing well and confident.
This. Do we all agree that those two people would've been Brockie and Smeltz? And can we agree that Brockie was playing better in the game, that Smeltz was non-existent and Brockie made a great run to win the penalty among other things?
Yellow Fever - Misery loves company
Permalink
Permalink
I watched the replay on tv again and Roux was superb. I can see why Arnold has been talking him up, this kid could have potentially even played for Australia if he keeps up his current form. At least we've capped him and I'm sure he will be a solid fullback for us in the future. James and Kosta were the other standouts for me. All Kosta is missing is a little bit of composure to release the ball at the right time, sometimes he takes one touch too many, but other than that he looked great. James well a truly bossed the midfield. He was pretty much playing a deep lying playmaker role, picking up the ball from the defence and also an advanced playmaker role, controlling the ball in the opposition half. He was brilliant. I don't think I've ever seen a NZ midfielder have so much time and composure on the ball, normally we would have hoofed it up field under moderate pressing from the opposition. Mcglinchy seemed to play a lot better with James in there too.
Seb i think he was cought by in the 4th goal. fenton gave a pass that was a problem because he was surrounded real quick, should have passed it back quickly because they robbed him the possession and it came the 4th
Permalink
Permalink
I would be surprised if there was a designated penalty taker. Ricki said after the Dadi disaster in Perth that he was happy with whoever was confident at the time stepping up, and both penalties were taken by the first guy to reach the ball.
You know we belong together...
Permalink
Permalink
There is usually one or two players that are designated for penalty kicks and it is up to the person at the time who is playing well and confident.
This. Do we all agree that those two people would've been Brockie and Smeltz? And can we agree that Brockie was playing better in the game, that Smeltz was non-existent and Brockie made a great run to win the penalty among other things?
Grumpy old bastard alert
Permalink
Permalink
I would be surprised if there was a designated penalty taker. Ricki said after the Dadi disaster in Perth that he was happy with whoever was confident at the time stepping up, and both penalties were taken by the first guy to reach the ball.
Exhibit A: Danny Vukovic
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Permalink
Permalink
There is usually one or two players that are designated for penalty kicks and it is up to the person at the time who is playing well and confident.
This. Do we all agree that those two people would've been Brockie and Smeltz? And can we agree that Brockie was playing better in the game, that Smeltz was non-existent and Brockie made a great run to win the penalty among other things?
I don't disagree with that.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
Permalink
Permalink
I was actually screaming for Brockie to take it - thinking he'd smash it through the back of the net for his first.So bummed when it missed (for me/him/us).
COYN
Permalink
Permalink
There is usually one or two players that are designated for penalty kicks and it is up to the person at the time who is playing well and confident.
This. Do we all agree that those two people would've been Brockie and Smeltz? And can we agree that Brockie was playing better in the game, that Smeltz was non-existent and Brockie made a great run to win the penalty among other things?
Lets be fair, Brockie did well to "win" the penalty and the lad was desperate to break his goal drought so in all honesty I don't think even Fallon could have wrestled the ball off him. I did feel that Brockie looked too nervous, he was desperate and that undermines confidence. James showed him how to do it.
Permalink
Permalink
...fenton gave a pass that was a problem because he was surrounded real quick, should have passed it back quickly because they robbed him the possession and it came the 4th
Yes, this was disappointing because otherwise I thought Fenton was very good. Surprisingly so, in fact.
Permalink
Permalink
There is usually one or two players that are designated for penalty kicks and it is up to the person at the time who is playing well and confident.
This. Do we all agree that those two people would've been Brockie and Smeltz? And can we agree that Brockie was playing better in the game, that Smeltz was non-existent and Brockie made a great run to win the penalty among other things?
I respect you leggy as you have played at a much higher level then myself but seriously? In any team I have played, you have a first choice. If the first choice is crook or is off the field then you go to the second choice. Smeltz would have been the first choice. Brockie was just greedy which perhaps illustrates that the players had no respect for the coach (I am not saying that is a bad or good thing by the way). I expect however that Ricki was fuming that Brockie took that ball - as I was
Auckland will rise once more
Permalink
Permalink
I also seem to recall last year that Brockie had two goals. The game was down and dusted for the Phoenix. He had the chance of scoring the Nixs first ever hattrick. Even then he didn't take the penalty. The first choice Ifill did. The other night was amateur hour with a team who were disorganized who had lost respect for their coach
Auckland will rise once more
Permalink
Permalink
There is usually one or two players that are designated for penalty kicks and it is up to the person at the time who is playing well and confident.
This. Do we all agree that those two people would've been Brockie and Smeltz? And can we agree that Brockie was playing better in the game, that Smeltz was non-existent and Brockie made a great run to win the penalty among other things?
I respect you leggy as you have played at a much higher level then myself but seriously? In any team I have played, you have a first choice. If the first choice is crook or is off the field then you go to the second choice. Smeltz would have been the first choice. Brockie was just greedy which perhaps illustrates that the players had no respect for the coach (I am not saying that is a bad or good thing by the way). I expect however that Ricki was fuming that Brockie took that ball - as I was
It is a hard one to pick in this case. For a start I would not have played Smeltz as he has had very little game time in the past few months.So I was pleased if you like that Brockie grabbed the ball(usually a sign of confidence) but the other side of the coin is that he has not been performing. In hindsight James had scored in the previous game.
I would have preferred Brockie to have just smashed the ball rather than his very weak effort.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
Permalink
Permalink
Sorry to spam, but just added some World Cup Brazil 2014 shirts to our site if anyone is interested:
http://authenticfc.co.nz/collections/international-shirts
Permalink
Permalink
I would be surprised if there was a designated penalty taker. Ricki said after the Dadi disaster in Perth that he was happy with whoever was confident at the time stepping up, and both penalties were taken by the first guy to reach the ball.
Also from the Herbert coaching manual:
- the AW's "play any old way they feel like" after Herbert's systems failed at the Phoenix and in Honiara at the Oceania Cup. Better not to have any actual tactics or plans - this will confuse the opposition (even if it confuses the AW's players - but that's the point too)
- Don't spend any time thinking about who should take the field and what formations will work. Always just select the first players that pop into your head (Lochhead, Plodder, Bertos....) Same reasons as above.
Big Pete 65, Christchurch
Permalink
Permalink