Team Wellington... no longer an association with Ole. Chur

Agreed its all for TV and that crowd numbers do seem irrelevant to NZC, Disagree that T20 was on decline though Auckland were getting 6k+ to Friday night games at Eden Park last few seasons they couldnt even top 4k for whole weekend this time although Saturdays rain out didnt help!

And having the comp in November is just stupid especially when there is some much live Cricket on at the moment which actually clashes with GPSS

Why only after following Phoenix games? Because you didnt know about it? 

not meaning to speak for anyone, but a lot of people I've spoken to just weren't football fans in general, they were therefore unlikely to head down to some random park in Wellington to watch the national league. It wasn't until a professional side came to wellington, they maybe went to a game with a mate (a lot of people first went to the playoffs) for an outing to the stadium, they then got hooked onto football and kept coming back to nix games. From there, they find out about this thing called the ASBP that the yellow fever keep talking about so head along to there, maybe with some friends they made via phoenix who are football tragics who usually go every week anyway. 

And thus the supporter base has grown. 

I'm a little confused as to where this particular argument has gone to.  I thought we started out talking about why crowds were poor at TW's games, but now we seem to state that crowds don't matter because they aren't associated with success. 

So how did you find out about this life changing club? The odd media report or TV news story maybe?

I think the point is more that even if they'd found out about ASBP through some channel, they wouldn't be likely to go to some random park to watch amateur football. An event watching a professional side at the stadium is what some people like to do occasionally, no matter the sport. Once they then get hooked on football, we've seen a few then make it to ASBP games. 

No. 

I was a massage therapy student at the time the Nix first started.  I had a dodgy knee and was seeing a physio for it.  He just happened to be the Nix physio at the time and asked if I'd be interested in doing some work for the team.  A lot of my training hours were spent with the Nix (shark, what an eye-opener).

Along with the work came free tickets and I started enjoying myself immensly at the games.  Truth is, the Phoenix introduced me to football and I fell in love.  So much so, that I went to the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, on the White Noise tour, without knowing a single person on that group.

I grew up in a very rugby-orientated group.  I was a massive Otago Highlanders fan (made my dad and brother wait 2 hours after a game at Athletic Park so I could get autographs).  But my work with the Phoenix changed all that.  And now, I am a Nix season ticket holder, I attend every TW home game, I have attended each WeeNix game, I have driven to Rotorua and Taupo for day trips to watch the All Whites, I've followed the Nix and All Whites to Oz and around the country, I watch a shark ton of club football (I've been at Wakey on the most miserable of nights just to get my fix), I've even gone out of my way to catch a Glenfield Rovers v Central game when we were in Auckland.

I can't say for cetain, but I'm pretty confident, that if I didn't watch the Nix, I wouldn't watch TW or local club football. 

Im not disagreeing with that at all! Merely saying that the presence of said pro team has an effect on attendance etc of said amateur team.

However you do make one very good point albeit I suspect inadvertently (but im sure deliberately condescending) about amateur footbal in that its all about how the product is packaged and presented. The A-League is a very average league full of very average players making a living out of the game but call it pro stick it on TV and play in decent stadiums (And in NZs case just say Aussie) and people will turn up although Crowds of 8000 and TV viewership in NZ of 15000 would suggest a lot of people are beginning to see through the hype    

Thank god for you you had a dodgy knee then!!! 

So there you have it everyone I was totally wrong!!  To think all ive needed all these years to completly embrace the Aussie league was a dodgy knee......

Head.  Meet Wall. Youd don't need to be sarcastic about it.  That is my story.  I don't thik it's really that important HOW I got involved with the Nix or WHY I started watching them play.  The fact is it happened and it has grown my love of football to epic proportions.

I understand that my story is out of the ordinary but my point still stands.  There are numerous people who attend and are aware of the ASBP purely due to the Phoenix.  I do not believe the Phoenix have done anything to detract from the TW crowd numbers.

I'm lead to understand when the national league was fully supported by Soccer NZ with TOBACO money the games at DF Park were standing room only with very little room for more. Most grounds appear the same from the video footage I have seen. Rothmans and Winfield appear to have done the promotion. 

As with all sport ripped of funding the first thing to go is advertising - Add to that the drop in participation by clubs and SNZ.  Fans lose track of games unless they are club members. Numbers drop. 

Not many images on the net

anyway, I am looking forward to seeing how strong southern are this Sunday. Should be a good game, hopefully the weather holds. 

I'm the same as Tracey, if I didn't become a supporter of the Phoenix (and therefore met football people and fell in love with football)  there's no way I'd be heading to any Tee Dubs . So there's an increase of at least two regular attendees thanks to the Phoenix.

Football Fan for 45 + years - See you all Sunday 

Will be a good test for the Tee Dubs, because Southern are definitely a surprise package in the league and really need to be beaten if TeeDubs want to win the league.

Different times , ...

The ITM Cup is second rate now because the top players do not play in it.

Super Rugby fair enough.

Our T20 is most definitely second rate.

Crowd numbers aren't the only measure of success but they are a massive factor. Just like the support and fan base a club has play a massive part in how big the club is. That's why Leeds are still bigger than most Premier League clubs despite not being in it for a decade.

yet the crowds at Leeds are not helping them get back into the premier league - because even in the premier league and in english football TV money is more important than numbers at games (it can help don't get me wrong but it's not the defining factor of sucess) 

I agree with Buffon II. Crowds are a sizeable measure of success of any competition. I'm not saying it's solely the fault of having an A League side but it's sticking your head in the sand to say NZ teams competing in more highly publicized Australian competitions doesn't impact on local competitions.

Frankly TW crowds have almost imploded. I remember going to see games involving TW and ACFC at Newtown park in the early years of the ASBP (then the NZFC) and the stand was full, meaning there was up to 1500 there. Now you'd be lucky to get 200 to Dave Farrington Park, despite the fact TW are a good side now and in the O League. Where has all the support gone and why?

ACFC has found a dip in support, likewise CU and HBU, but nothing like TW. We still get 1000 plus to big games at Kiwitea Street. At the moment Team Wellington should be riding high in the local football public's mind but very few bother to go watch them and that's a real shame because they have a great product at the moment.

I remember the heyday of the old Rothman's National League in the 70s and crowds of 3000 plus were a feature at Newmarket Park and later Bill McKinley. Now the only domestic games that attract decent crowds (other than finals at Kiwitea Street) are for the Phoenix. The truth is most NZ football supporters aren't interested in our national league any longer because all the focus is on the A League. They're even struggling to get break even crowds for the Phoenix in Wellington despite massive promotion. You have to use the game at Eden Park to cover the losses you make at the caketin. Now Dome is talking about playing three or four games a season in Auckland to cover costs, which I know will deplete crowds at Kiwitea Street. 

I don't know what the answer is. I do believe the NZ national league is more important for developing local players than having a team in the A League, where the best NZ players will go to anyway. If it comes down to one or the other I know where I stand, and I'm happy to watch A League games. I just happen to believe the domestic ASBP is more important for NZ football.

If it wasn't for the O League and ACFC winning it regularly we wouldn't have an ASBP now. It's the only thing keeping our national league viable at the moment and that's why I fear for the future of the domestic competition. If ACFC drop the ball and lose the O league prizemoney the ASBP will fold without big NZF investment and we know that's not going to happen.

Some say there should be two NZ A League teams, one in Auckland. That would kill the ASBP and so where would these two sides reserve teams play, as Australia won't have them? Welnix is showing no signs of investing in TW, even though they're using the ASBP as a training competition for the Phoenix reserve team and anyway Fifa won't let an A League side play in the O League.

Outside of ACFC, it just feels like the ASBP is dying, and it's a real shame. We have to find some way to rejuvenate it.

41 new posts? Was expecting to see we'd signed Messi.

But no, just the same Auckland bitters flogging a dead horse

Certainly signals our regard for Frankie Mac's eyes.

Do you agree now?

Fact is, crowds are declining across all sports. Even Super rugby. People just have other things to do, regardless of how much promotion is done. Get use to it. 

Err you mean facts? Fudge off.

So I was right when I said crowds were at there best when there was no team in Aussie league anywhere in NZ  then.

Cheers for proving me correct on that! Love your work though did Termie X do that graph for you 

For once I agree with you. However the Phoenix must be concerned with the TV viewing figures for there games?

Of course the crowds were high at the start. It was a new competition and TW gave away 50 season passes to each club in Wellington. Same with Super Rugby. Hurricanes got 30K to the first season. Now days it is 10K. Who is to blame for that?

TW decline had already started before the Phoenix started so you can't blame them. But you will. Because you're an idiot. 

Particularly amateur sport. 

First season also always has novelty factor. 2nd season a lot of football clubs were still involved, after that it tailed off (before the nix) and has remained about the same. I think the last couple of seasons also reflect how much more annoying it is to get to Davey F than Newtown park. 

But who needs facts right? This is the internet. 

And the Hypocrisy raises its short little ugly head again....

This site might help you.

And to answer. No. They get the same proportion of the TV revenue.

Have you mutilated yourself yet?

You got the Aussie link.....

Wasnt talking about the revenue more the fact that 15k a game doesnt seem that high 

Tho thinking on , if Term did it it'd be a spreadsheet ...

Hold on a second. Crowds at NZ sporting events started declining around the time I moved here. 

And im Australian.

Therefore it is all my fault.

Sorry NEw Zealand