Manchester United

Respectfully I disagree again, the whole not getting going comes back down to a lack of ball speed and lack of service from the midfield. Any attack that goes through Fellaini, he takes four touches and passes backwards and their defence has set itself and our movement dries out. Love Herrera to pieces but the same can be said for him.

Sub wise if we weren't wide enough we then brought on Rashford, who plays very narrow, and Lukaku, who basically played as a second striker? I find it very hard to believe that the wingers weren't playing exactly as they'd been instructed to (i.e., narrow) or else the manager would have fixed it much quicker. Again it comes to Jose.

Not sure why Zlatan needed to come on?

Edit: as in we bought Zlatan on for a winger which then made Lukaku a second striker

Pogba missing Manchester derby for that just feels unjust.

For stamping on someone? Come off it.

Classic Buffoon response. Watched at full speed Pogba is dribbling and Bellerin puts his leg into a ridiculous position. Even someone in your own thread said as much.

Per the rules it's a red card no doubt, just feels unjust to miss the biggest game of the year.

So it was a red card then? Deserves his suspension. City will pick you off anyway. If we can create 33 against you imagine what they will do.

I never said it wasn't a red card. I just said missing the biggest game for something with no malice feels unjust.

You're not wrong, there is a clear gulf in class between the top teams and Arsenal.

Creating and scoring are two different things 

Clearly, which is why we are a point off 4th.

Lololololololololol.

Yeah good one you pathetic scum cod.

Boot wasn't high, although his studs were showing. Pogba can feel hard done by, although I wouldn't be surprised if he got an extra game ban for clapping the decision as well.

Just for the point of discussion - if it isn't serious foul play ("a foul committed using excessive force") and you assume he didn't do it purposely (violent conduct) then there's no law that says it should be a red.

Edit: Having watched it a few more times it has to be a red, he lunged for the ball more than I thought he had so it wasn't in stride like I'd thought.

Hey mate, you seem a little upset. Thought you would've been used to being shark by now as an Arsenal fan?

Jeez you lot make being a United supporter embarrassing

Jeez you lot make being a United supporter embarrassing

I really cannot understand it when any team or supporters group thinks that creating chances and keeping possession means you were dominant or played well. Those things are clearly secondary to the scoreline and success comes from consistently putting the ball in the back of the net more than your opponent. Full stop. 

Liverpool have been using this line for years, as have Arsenal and Spurs. United under Van Gaal created a lot of chances and kept the ball well. But possession without penetration is pointless. 

On the Pogba incident, yes it is a red card and I don't think there is much of an argument against that. What I will say is that it would have been hard for Pogba to stop when he has already lunged for the ball and Bellerin has gone into the long barrier to stop the ball. I think if Bellerin had made a standard tackle, he would still have got the ball first but Pogba would have just clipped him on the shins, just like any other tough tackle. But you have to play what is in front of you. 

Pogba will clearly be missed for the derby but I still think it will be a scoring draw. 

For all the ho ha about penalties, red cards etc. we got the points as we scored more goals. Arsenal had a lot more possession but the mistake they made was tip tap all around the penalty area.  ( there were about 17 players  there) Should have gone wide a lot earlier got in behind and actually had some decent shots instead of trying to walk the ball into the net. Welbeck should have had a penalty, Pobga tackle in slow motion looked shocking but as he is not a thug ( unlike Xhaka)  I don't think it was intentional. If the Woolwich boys think the ref was poor then what about the yellow that Koscielny got towards the end of the game. That should have been a red as he fouled Lukaku in the Arsenal half and he was the last man.  

Not actually true.                           Bellerin was not last man

If the foul is violent or consists in a hand ball in the box then the player will  get a red card .  As long as the foul  is judged to be an honest attempt at taking the ball , the defender will only be shown a yellow card.

That is crap as he was cheating by pulling back a player that may have scored. 

As I have already stated the rules above, yellow is the only one he could have got. However  had he not got dragged down, who will ever know what might have happened. And by the way Lukaku is pretty quick.

Agree with Nelfoos - iIt was the right call.

One thing that didn't get any notice was Xhaka's (I think) scissor tackle in the first half. He got the ball so the ref ignored it. But trailing leg was leg breaker territory. Should've had a yellow at least.

Was that the one on Young? 

Agree with this. 
Xhaka is reckless at times, and that was a yellow at least in my mind too. 

I think so.

During my lonely Wellington/Auckland refs course we were told to stomp out such scissoring.

Like Barcelona, City's "beautiful" football is simply built on a foundation of tactical fouls. Anyway good for them. Despite the general rhetoric though the league is never won in December and is far from over. I really don't think they are as great as the headlines will make out. Two very lucky goals today and weren't anymore dangerous than ourselves.

Wish we just could just come out of the blocks and play like we did once we went a goal down. City looked extremely ordinary when we started playing football.

A lot of criticism was levelled at Lukaku before he arrived at Manchester United; gets lost in big games, poor first touch, wasteful, and lately these have been pretty evident. Today he should've scored the winner, and also caused City's winner. I don't know why he is unsubbable. I would've left Lingard on as he was doing well.

Ederson will get the plaudits for his double save but really both shots were hit straight at him. Both should've scored.

Imagine spending 75 million on a striker who can't finish, has an awful first touch, and goes missing in big games.

"Something tells me I'm into something good!"

No one needs to spend 75 million mate, Sanchez and Ozil are leaving for free.

This is an interesting point no one seems to talk about. I found myself massively frustrated when we played them, their tactical fouling is quite obviously heavily trained, they are so clever about where and when on the pitch they do it, that they seem to get away with a very minimal number of cards for it. They also seem to dive a lot for penalties. 

As beautiful as their football looks sometimes, there are definitely some well-drilled dark arts going on there as well. 

It is quite clever. The player needs to identify immediately whether they can press as a team straight away, or whether they need to foul.

I recall in the 2nd half Walker tripping Martial on the edge of the box United's box as he broke for a counter. Because he did it immediately it came across as nothing. If he let Martial take a few extra steps then it would've been a clear counter attack was on and a clear yellow card.

On the other side of the field, the second Otamendi is put under any pressure he will fall over. It's done with such confidence and belief the ref is basically forced to give a free kick. 

You've built a situation where you can't be countered and you also can't be pressed. What's left?

If I was a Manchester United Football Club supporter I would be bitterly disappointed with how this season has panned out.

Jose Mourinho has come in and spent an absolute fortune on players all across the park, yet having been at the club for 18 months they look no closer to a title challenge than they did under the previous manager. 

Big money signings like Romelu Lukaku and Victor Lindelof have failed to deliver, and the overall standard of football from Jose's men is unappealing in comparison to several other top sides.

Really would be questioning whether JM is the man to take the club forward again and muster a proper title challenge. Perhaps they will have to look towards a fifth manager since Fergie left for that to happen.

Obvious troll is obvious but I will humour you.

Lindelof (barely a big money signing in 2017 figures) has started to find form. He actually played well this morning. Better than Rojo did. I reckon he'll be one of the Premier League's top defenders in 12 months.

Lukaku has definitely faded in big games but his qualities have also seen United make large improvements in most other games this year.

While this season hasn't "panned out" just yet (it's only December for christ sakes) 11 points off the leaders who are on the best run of their club's history isn't too bad and the overall improvement from last year to easy to see. Oh and we could be 17 points off the leaders, but that would just be embarrassing at this stage.

Nice to see chickens being counted nice and early there, but I'd take us a bit more seriously than that if I were you. Ferguson is still the only ManU Manager to have ever finished above Wenger. It's not as easy as it looks. 

You can tell there is growing dissatisfaction among the Red Devils supporters here. A real unhappiness with not even being the best team in their city, let alone the country.

Most of us are very happy with Mou and the progress we've made under him, which is substantial.

So how do Arsenal feel? Yet another season of mediocrity, not even the 2nd best team in their city. 5th best in the country at a stretch.

I get that you're bitter, but trolling United fans isn't a great stone to throw when you're standing in a glass house.