Anthony Hudson (FAT Technical Director | Thailand)

The Iceland team at the Euros, how many of them play domestically? If most do, then it might be a recipe worth following.

The recipe is still worth trying. Basically you are not allowed to coach a team unless you have a coaching qualification. This stands all the way down to 5 year olds. Also before you get to coach your own team you spend time as someones assistant, again this goes all the way down to coaching 5 year olds. 

Essentially forcing the quality of coaching to improve.

It's a red herring. You can coach 5-year olds all you went, but when they get to 15.16.17 and have extremely limited options to go to the next level, it's not going to do you much good. Not to mention that their level of investment in the game, and exposure to high level of competition from a fairly early age, is also something we can't replicate easily.

There will be 1000's of uncoached 5 year olds then, as there is no chance of that being able to happen here.  It's hard enough for a lot of clubs to find coaches for juniors at times, let alone have the qualified, and even if there were, NZF doesn't have the cash to fund all the courses it would require.

being in the UEFA confederation aside, there's still something productive happening there... Icelandic teams have been in European club comps for a long time, and there have been the occasional player get to a semi-decent level (Arnor Gudjohnsen at Anderlecht, Gudni Bergsson at Spurs, Siggi Jonsson at Sheffield Wednesday etc), but nothing like what is currently being seen... sure, their geographic position gives them an advantage in terms of opportunities, but they're clearly also doing plenty to produce players of a certain quality to maximise those oportunities

We've also had some players get to a certain level to get a crack at a decent pro gig - the likes of Thomas, Kosta etc... and I think the point being made is, if we made a similar investment, or intention, to try and maximise what we do for our young players, then there'd be a better quality of player to take any chance that came along... sure, work permits and stuff will always be problematic, but at the end of the day if a player is good enough, some club somewhere does what it takes to get him...

Our young guys may not get gigs in Europe, but why not A-League or MLS or even Asia?  I know we count as "foreigners" in those competitions, but clearly people like Kosta, McGlinchey, and others in the past have been good enought to get signed by teams there, depsite taking an import spot, so maybe as a first step that becomes our target from making this kind of investment in youth coaching?  the previous generation of Icelandic talent targeted clubs in places like Norway, Sweden, Belgium (and granted, many still do), but nowadays they have guys in Serie A, Ligue Un and the Premier League... progression :) 

I don't think anyone has ever said that Iceland haven't made progress - they clearly have, and their results show that. Whether that means they'll be able to continue performing like this is more difficult to know, as that is always dependent on a number of factors, and outside of the big 4-5 nations in Europe, the smaller ones tend to oscillate between generations.

But leaving all that aside, the main comments here have largely been that the investment/approach with their young players is just one aspect of a multifaceted set of circumstances which has enabled their progress, and many of those other ones are not easily (and some not all) applicable here. We need to find our own solutions - and I've long been advocating that hanging onto the coat of the A-league is the most obvious solution, and to me it's a great failing of NZF that it's a group of private individuals who realise this and are trying their best to make it work, rather than our governing body.

Basically Iceland, and other smaller successful countries should at least be studied by NZF. Success in life from business to sport or whatever, is often the result of replicating what others have already done. Not a complete copy, but just looking to replicate or try those ideas that suit. It short cuts the path to success.

Undoubtedly Iceland's location gives it many advantages over NZ, that can never be solved. But surely there must be a few lessons, that a group of NZF staffers could learn just by being on the ground for a few days up in Reykjavik.They can travel economy like Wee Mac, and maybe do some couchsurfing to reduce costs.

Thats the exact attitude thats held us back for the last 30 years, did Alan Jones feed you that drivel?

NZF courses have been self funding for years

What?

Some Iceland facts:

They invested their money form TV rights in indoor football fields but mostly into coaches.

Iceland has 800 coaches, with A- or B-  UEFA license. That's 1 coach / 423 person. England, has 1 to 11.000 ratio.

Every coach gets paid, not amateurs, no motivated but incompetent Dad's.

Get rid of Hudson and bring in an Icelandic coach, he'd be used to the cooler weather down here for starters.

Here's a good read on where Iceland have been and how they got to the tournament.

Every time I see someone mention best practice (which i often do in my line of work) I cringe. It's an absolute misnomer, aside from the rare situation where every single aspect of the environment is identical... which is pretty well never.

It's not as simple as replicating what others are doing (sport, business, politically, anything) as every situation is different. What you can (and must) do is learn from others and adapt some of their methods/tools/processes/whatever to fit your own situation... then develop YOUR team/company/department/individual best practice, that will enable you to maximise the performance and outcomes in the environment in which you're operating.

Surge - endorse x10.

There is no way NZF can fully copy what the Icelandics are doing (obviously well). However there must be some learnings to be had from country of only 21,000 registered players and a QF berth at the Euros.

A ratio of a qualified coach every 423 people is awesome, and won't just be due to throwing megabucks at some national scheme. 

There will have to be some aspect of culture, national pride or whatever. Maybe there is nothing else to do in an Icelandic winter, but coach youngsters inside a nice warm indoor stadium.  Still you could say the same thing about Invercargill

Absolutely - that's exactly my point... I'm sure there are some (probably many) things we could learn from them. And at the same time, explore what we can do differently to overcome some of our own challenges and build on some of our *strengths.

*if we can identify any.

Exactly Surge. The NZF should be looking at various clubs and countries and picking out the good practices and see how we can adapt them. I am thinking of the Swansea City way of things. Off the field, they seem to have it sussed too.

Another Iceland fun fact, checking the male population of Iceland between the 20-40 age bracket. It's around max 50,000. Not sure how many of those actually play football to pick from.

They apparently also have 100 professional players. Though what exactly is a 'prof' player - does it include a 16 yr old kid playing for the youth team at some Swedish 2nd Division side, shining Dan Keat's boots?

How many prof players would NZ have? 25-40?

Mostly I'd love to know if Iceland has a national football plan, like NZF's Total Football Plan. Then does every age group team play same style as the National team?

I haven't watched Euros apart from highlights. From what I've read Iceland are well organised, hard to break down, and generally score on the counter, or from well executed long throws (Tuiloma anyone).

So with that in mind is say a young player with blinding pace (something that can't be coached but a must if you are heavily reliant on counter attacking) promoted more than a slower player with a prettier technical ability? ie have they identified their limitations of always having a tiny talent pool and picked a national style to make the best of whatever talent they have.

They well maybe smashed by France in their QF, and this group of Icelandic players maybe their one-off 'golden generation' - but this sort of success well worth a look by NZF.

The risk of an overseas gaffer, with little knowledge of NZ football like Hudson coming in with a fixed style of play (copied on his idol Biesla) - is just that AWs will NEVER have enough players of good enough technical ability to do it well. Maybe he has now realised that, and that's why AWs were playing route one in PNG (not played well either)

Iceland are not playing a 'park the bus and hope for counter attack' style game. They are clever enough not to believe they can play a possession based football. The defend quit high and pass the ball pretty well if they get it, they are a well oiled team, helping each other. You can see in their body language that they are confident and work hard for every ball. I thought they have a lot of positive fighting attitude. I guess all of this makes them so likeable. France will outsmart them, Iceland still will be one of the true winners of the tournament.

And on that I am 100% in agreement with you.

Interesting selection process by Iceland... [taken from a English fan]

http://www.trollfootball.me/videos/view/how-icelan...

are FHM one of these clubs?

Yes, Forrest Hill Milford tried hiring Kelly Sports coaches to coach their youth. 

http://www.trollfootball.me/videos/view/how-icelan...

They forgot to eliminate the 4 young guys in Iceland who are professional musicians (there may be more).

One of my favourite bands.  Feeling grumpy, go to the last song, great for the soul

the discussion in here about coaching is interesting. I am one of those dads who has played northern prem league but never had any coaching experience. Everything I coach my kids is what I found useful when I played from the good coaches I had and from what I hear, see and read (there are a lot of good things our there). 

Our club has a "coaches" courses but to be honest it was Roger Wilkinson trying to get rugby dads to do the most complicated drills for 9 year olds and no one got it. 

So what courses does NZF or Auckland Football run? Our club, Fencibles, doesn't promote these to my knowledge. 

So I fall into the category of well intentioned father who considers himself well versed in matters football but probably 10 years behind the times. But there are still the majority of coaches of kids at our club lining kids up behind cones doing drills from 50 years ago. 

Where do you find out more?

try here http://www.aucklandfootball.org.nz/index.php?id=14...

You may need a FAX machine.

But seriously, This is may NZF problems. I heard this the second time, a Dad who want to coach his team better but got handed out some random weblinks. Should not every club coach get a handbook of how to train kids? They don't have to invent that, just buy it from someone that fits, maybe not form the England.

Update: Took me 3 sec to type in Google to find ALL you need, sorry in german, just needed a translation and voila! you can play like The Mannschaft

http://www.dfb.de/trainer/d-juniorin/training-onli...

thecoachingmanual,com

Thanks guys. There's certainly a lot of good sites etc. 

I guess the point is that at one of Aucklands biggest junior clubs I can't see any evidence of the Whole of Football plan or whichever strategic document NZF branded their junior development under. It still seems to be each club to their own.. 

I'd be very keen to attend some coaching sessions. Not to just parrot off what is shown but get some new ideas. I just end up doing what I think is best which is probably OK for my daughters team but it's not OK for the boys rep sides. 

Two things struck me today. 

1) Only 3 out of my 9 kids in the 9 year old team watched the Wales game (incl my daughter who had no choice). The football diet in NZ  is very A League and EPL dominated. About half watched the All Whites recent games after I told them they were on. The kids in my team used words like "horrible", "why are they just kicking it anywhere", "they need you to tell them how to pass" (I liked that one!). 

2) our club really struggled to get coaches for all the junior teams. They had to send multiple emails and plead with parents. So I guess the issue may not be getting junior coaches getting credentialed but getting even "football people" coaching sides. Maybe it's just the way society is going. It's a big effort to commit to practices etc. I'd be interested to know what other clubs experience. It may mean the clubs and NZF have to provide the coaching rather than rely on dads... 

You raise some good points Jasper. I live in Brisbane, and ex-Socceroo and respected David Zdrilic raised on interesting points this morning on football culture in England. Noting that other European countries have much higher ratio of coaches to young kids playing the game.

In UK football dads would much rather watch their favourite club either in pub or at the game, than sacrifice time to coach young kids. So the whole structure of their game suffers. Seems a smart observation

Hudson may yet get his dream job coaching penalty kicks to the Italy's of this world 

Both 1 & 2 have been going on since time immemorial in NZ 

When my son was 10 years old the only person that put his hand up to coach his team was a 'rugby' Dad because the club had nobody else. 

I decided then to take the team and it turned out to be OK. I was reluctant as I had seen what could happen with fathers coaching their sons.

Chopah sorry for the delayed response. I can tell you before I answer that that I'm merely a social player at FHM with a few mates that play in the first team, my involvement in football is nothing like it once was due to other commitments but I still hold a huge interest in all areas. Anyway, because of that I can't be surer about FHM than other clubs but I will say is that it appears from the outside that they probably are one of those clubs. I think the problem is spread across the country with a few clubs here and there trying to do the right thing...which is why I think the solution lies with NZF. Do I think NZF are capable of apply a solution to this? Probably not, not currently anyway. I agree with the people who are saying we can learn certain things from the Icelands and England's ('what not to dos') etc etc but we need people who know what they are doing in the positions that analyse and select what of those things would suit us and there in lies the problem - NZF can't ever seem to get the right people with the critical experience and knowledge to make the changes the game in NZ needs.

Does anyone know if Hudson has been in contact with Keat, Henderson and Old etc to explain to them why they keep missing out on selection?

I'd love to know.

Zdrilic had the player:coach ratio stats of the various European countries.

Having living in UK for 3 years and not surprised England near bottom of those stats. The pub culture is great fun but spending hours in your local watching football, doesnt leave a lot of free time for coaching the young kids. Better to leave that for some other Dad.