COVID comparing

Legend
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wow! That all sounds horrible.
I agree with everything you've said re COVID. I'm not yet vaxed, will be when my turn rolls around and after I've had both doses I'd expect to be able to go wherever, whenever I want. Theoretically I'd be a minimal threat to anyone if I became ill. I'd doubt Auckland cluster will get anywhere near the NSW situation, NZ's lockdown has been so much quicker and harder than theirs and cases are pretty much all traced and linked and a majority are now being transmitted between families that have been in level 4 together. Personally I find the comparisons between countries futile, because both sides think they are doing it the right way. For mine though, given NZ has largely got lockdowns sorted other governments saying that we have to live with the virus now when their vax rate is low is just conceding that they got it wrong and should have used a tougher lockdown system than they did. Living with the virus will be fine (much like the flu or measles etc) once most of the population is vaxed (70-80%).
Marquee
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Agree that one country (or it's inhabitants) shouldn't be telling another how to manage Covid.

Situation is murkier when you start dealing with somewhere like Australia, made up of a Confederation of different states. But it will mostly have sorted itself out by the start of 2022. Mostly.
Marquee
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theprof
wow! That all sounds horrible.
I agree with everything you've said re COVID. I'm not yet vaxed, will be when my turn rolls around and after I've had both doses I'd expect to be able to go wherever, whenever I want. Theoretically I'd be a minimal threat to anyone if I became ill. I'd doubt Auckland cluster will get anywhere near the NSW situation, NZ's lockdown has been so much quicker and harder than theirs and cases are pretty much all traced and linked and a majority are now being transmitted between families that have been in level 4 together. Personally I find the comparisons between countries futile, because both sides think they are doing it the right way. For mine though, given NZ has largely got lockdowns sorted other governments saying that we have to live with the virus now when their vax rate is low is just conceding that they got it wrong and should have used a tougher lockdown system than they did. Living with the virus will be fine (much like the flu or measles etc) once most of the population is vaxed (70-80%).
You're in Australia? Have they not opened vaccinations to everyone?
Starting XI
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Having read this i get most of the talk is comparing nz and aus/uk/us

living in Japan we have had a huge amount of corona cases recently, 3004 on wednesday (for the day) and it is only increasing every day.
We have had restrictions almost since last year in March.
I have had to wear a mask the whole time and have indents in my ears from doing so. ( i continue to do it as thats what has been asked) 
even with these restrictions we have continued to increase in numbers, they get stricter sometimes and numbers go down.
This time tho, the numbers are still rising. i think people have had enough and even though bars and any place selling alcohol (except supermarkets) have to close down there is no end in site.

there is no talk of easing things
everyone is able to take the vaccine and numbers are rising there all the time too

i got my first last week (had a really bad reaction where i couldnt breathe the day after and went to the hospital) so am nervous about getting the 2nd one.
i am worried though that if i don't get it i can't go back to NZ to see my family (can't take off a month or longer from work and can't afford the 3k for quarintine)
but if my reaction is worse i could end up dead....
i am consulting with a doctor but even if im told i shouldn't i have to make a hard choice.


Marquee
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detoxin
Having read this i get most of the talk is comparing nz and aus/uk/us

living in Japan we have had a huge amount of corona cases recently, 3004 on wednesday (for the day) and it is only increasing every day.
We have had restrictions almost since last year in March.
I have had to wear a mask the whole time and have indents in my ears from doing so. ( i continue to do it as thats what has been asked) 
even with these restrictions we have continued to increase in numbers, they get stricter sometimes and numbers go down.
This time tho, the numbers are still rising. i think people have had enough and even though bars and any place selling alcohol (except supermarkets) have to close down there is no end in site.

there is no talk of easing things
everyone is able to take the vaccine and numbers are rising there all the time too

i got my first last week (had a really bad reaction where i couldnt breathe the day after and went to the hospital) so am nervous about getting the 2nd one.
i am worried though that if i don't get it i can't go back to NZ to see my family (can't take off a month or longer from work and can't afford the 3k for quarintine)
but if my reaction is worse i could end up dead....
i am consulting with a doctor but even if im told i shouldn't i have to make a hard choice.


Sorry to hear that, what vaccine was that Detoxin? Might be if you switch to a different one for the second shot you won't have the same reaction.

Marquee
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I'm in QLD. I lose track, and each state's a bit different. Pretty sure NSW now open to all age groups above 16. They have thrown more vaccine numbers at NSW (over 70% adult popn now with min one jab) and now VIC. QLD/WA lag down the bottom at 50-51% one dose. But that as much about apathy/laziness as any supply issue. 

They have a supply of AZ in Victoria (where they make it) about to expire soon. So have opened that supply up now up to younger people, and I understand some younger people have decided to take that up. They also dropped the wait time between AZ doses from 12 to 6 weeks. VIC could go the way of NSW, with large increase in cases so I guess, not surprising folks there now very motivated to get vaccinated.

AZ has had some (tiny number) of blood clotting incidents linked to it, and more recommended for 50/60 plus age group. I'm age 52 and got AZ, in QLD. Freeing up the limited Pfizer for the younger crowd. My 49 year old tradie brother here, who gets his info from that quality source, known as talkback radio, only wanted the one that 'doesn't kill ya'. So I managed to book him a Pfizer appt, on the 3rd clinic I rang. Again that apathy thing (admittedly he does do 50-60 hr work weeks), so if I didn't do it, he would still be unvaccinated at Xmas.

Surprised NZ didn't buy some AZ off Australia, to speed up vaccination of the over 60s.
Starting XI
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Ryan
detoxin
Having read this i get most of the talk is comparing nz and aus/uk/us

living in Japan we have had a huge amount of corona cases recently, 3004 on wednesday (for the day) and it is only increasing every day.
We have had restrictions almost since last year in March.
I have had to wear a mask the whole time and have indents in my ears from doing so. ( i continue to do it as thats what has been asked) 
even with these restrictions we have continued to increase in numbers, they get stricter sometimes and numbers go down.
This time tho, the numbers are still rising. i think people have had enough and even though bars and any place selling alcohol (except supermarkets) have to close down there is no end in site.

there is no talk of easing things
everyone is able to take the vaccine and numbers are rising there all the time too

i got my first last week (had a really bad reaction where i couldnt breathe the day after and went to the hospital) so am nervous about getting the 2nd one.
i am worried though that if i don't get it i can't go back to NZ to see my family (can't take off a month or longer from work and can't afford the 3k for quarintine)
but if my reaction is worse i could end up dead....
i am consulting with a doctor but even if im told i shouldn't i have to make a hard choice.


Sorry to hear that, what vaccine was that Detoxin? Might be if you switch to a different one for the second shot you won't have the same reaction.


Was the pfizer as from what i read in general it has less side effects (based on stats here in Japan)
Don't know if since I was hospitalized with covid last year and suffered from Long Covid that it meant my reaction was more like reaction to 2nd dose.  

They have found things in the moderna vaccine here (rubber and stainless steel) so feel safer with pfizer.

ofcoarse it could be completely unrelated to the vaccine and just bad timing. but still makes you nervous
Legend
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Bummer man- don’t wanna get ahead of things, but I think maybe the curve is turning in Japan? It was at 25k nationally and then down to 3 sub 25k days. Guess it’s hope of a kind. 

That reaction don’t sound good. I know a bunch of people who have had both, but not long  COVID. I know a few people who had 2,3 or 4 days to adapt to the vaccine. That had fevers and stuff, but not as severe as your reaction by the sounds.

So annoying about the Moderna. Supposed to be better against delta. Though both are fairly good. 

Are you over the long Covid? 
Starting XI
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martinb
Bummer man- don’t wanna get ahead of things, but I think maybe the curve is turning in Japan? It was at 25k nationally and then down to 3 sub 25k days. Guess it’s hope of a kind. 

That reaction don’t sound good. I know a bunch of people who have had both, but not long  COVID. I know a few people who had 2,3 or 4 days to adapt to the vaccine. That had fevers and stuff, but not as severe as your reaction by the sounds.

So annoying about the Moderna. Supposed to be better against delta. Though both are fairly good. 

Are you over the long Covid? 

I seem to be.  Still larthargic, but i feel it is because im slowly gettting my fitness back up which will take time.

tokyo past it and Osaka had our most on wed, but the last two days ahve been lower than the same days last week

they are now talking about opening up more to people who have been double vaccinated.  Just hit the news tonight
Lawyerish
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Scott from Marketing always seduces someone
Starting XI
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coochiee
2ndBest
It amazes me how many people love death.

True, but your view can also be very different if you own a business that's had it's income decimated in the pandemic, and your mental health is under incredible strain. Or maybe you have been separated from your partner/kids for over 12 months.

You will have a different view of it all, than someone who has a very safe public servant job, and who's biggest inconvenience may have been missing out on your free weekly govt funded shoulder massage.

Folks have had to deal with Covid in all different sorts of ways, and alot of good people have had their lives completely fudgeed over. Still all anti vaxxers should be made to try out a ventilator for fun.

Amen to that.  

My wife and I have worked on the front line throughout the pandemic in the UK (A&E/Covid Wards) and aeronautical engineering.  Both separated by sick family in NZ and Asia.  Thanks to MIQ I might never see my dad again.


It's one thing to believe what's published in the NYT, The Times, The Guardian, NZ Herald, Stuff etc and another to be seeing first hand.  

Sadly too many kiwi's are believing dribble fed to them by the media and central govt. about Covid being out of control in the Northern Hemisphere.  

It is not.

Thanks must go the hard work of the British, German, American and other scientists who brought us the effective vaccinations and have helped return life back to quasi normality.  

The sooner NZ and Australia can achieve similarantibody levels to those common in North America and Europe, the better.
Legend
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you say the UK/Europe has covid under control and yet the stats reported from the UK show an average of 114 deaths per day and 34000 cases. % of population I"m sure that's low but people are still dying at a rally high rate, and they may be the unvaxed pop, but that cannot be acceptable or treated as normal.

I want the borders opened like we all do, but I'm not happy with parts of the world accepting that number of deaths from a virus that can better managed.
Marquee
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Also the UK had a 9.9% economic downturn last year. I know people who had to take jobs 50% of what they were on in London in the same industry. I'm sure it's rebounding but the loss of life and economic cost has been massive.

Even in the US I've got friends pretty much in lock down despite "being under control" Even in conservative states like Texas they're being forced to shut schools and workplaces because of covid deaths.

New Zealand has borrowed less per GDP for economic stimulus than all the countries we compare ourselves to, we've had a smaller economic hit, our unemployment is down and our wages up, we've had one of the best health outcomes in the world and some of the most freedoms.

We have to open up to the world, and I think we all expected we'd be open this year, but Delta and the resurgence of the virus in Israel and other countries which are vaccinated means we need to take some time to understand the booster shots.

When we embarked on this journey our epidemiologists thought the world would try and eradicate the disease collectively, as we've done with others, but politicising it and undermining/defunding the WHO meant there was no cohesive strategy and everyone is now stuck with never ending covid restrictions, except us.

I'm sorry about your dad Marto, MIQ has compassionate slots available normally outside of the slots for kiwis returning home.
Legend
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1400 cases/day and they are talking about "opening up" - although the version of open seems pretty restrictive - especially if you're in the 20%+ unvaccinated.
he freedoms listed below will only be available to people in NSW who are fully vaccinated or have a medical exemption:
  • Five visitors will be allowed in a home where all adults are fully vaccinated (not including children 12 and under).
  • Up to 20 fully vaccinated people can gather in an outdoor setting.
  • Hospitality venues can reopen subject to a 4-square-metre rule indoors and a 2-square-metre rule outside, with fully vaccinated patrons.
  • Retail stores can reopen to the fully vaccinated. People who are not fully vaccinated can still access critical retail.
  • Hairdressers and nail salons can reopen with a five-client cap, provided clients are vaccinated.
  • Gyms and indoor recreation can reopen with a 4-square-metre capacity rule for the fully vaccinated.
  • Sporting facilities including swimming pools can reopen to the fully vaccinated.
  • Stadiums racecourses, theme parks and zoos can reopen to the fully vaccinated with a 4-square-metre cap.
  • Fully vaccinated people can attend ticketed and seated outdoor events with a 500-person cap.
  • Cinemas, theatres, music halls, museums and galleries can reopen to the fully vaccinated with a 4-square-metre rule or 75 per cent seated capacity.
  • Weddings can go ahead with 50 fully vaccinated guests. Dancing is allowed but drinking must occur while sitting down.
  • Fifty fully vaccinated guests can attend funerals.
  • Churches and places of worship can open to the fully vaccinated with a 4-square-metre rule
  • Travel across NSW can occur, with caravan parks and camping grounds open to the fully vaccinated and carpooling permitted.
Appiah without the pace
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Their opening up looks something similar to level 2. We should be able to get there without all the death that NSW has.
One in a million
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I guess they must have a pretty foolproof vaccination passport thing to allow ppl to access all these venues
Marquee
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Today NSW became the first Aussie state to hit 80% adult popn (age 16 & above) single dose vaccine. Vaccine Tracker shows will hit 80% fully vaccinated around 23rd October - 5 weeks away. Daily new NSW cases also dropped for the first time in 13 days, but too early to say that is a trend.

Also news here that a 46 yr old guy in VIC had booked his first jab, only to die of Covid before he got there. His family now urging people to get vaccinated. Sad news, but obviously these stories make more people sitting on the fence, go & get the jab.

See that England is now 90% single dose of it's adult popn, so hopefully 90% plus is also achieveable in Aus & NZ.

Still think there is a chance Nix could be back in Wellington by Xmas, but that's going to depend on the NZ Govt.

Legend
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all very positive - hopefully the second doses get done promptly.

NZ news stating that Auckland needed another 130 jabs to get to the 80% single dose mark - which is great too. All going well NZ and Aus will reach the 80-90% fully vaxed mark by November/December which should mean borders opening up and travel restrictions are done for.
First Team Squad
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I can see the NZ government dragging the chain on opening borders even at 80% vac rates. Just don't think we have the MoH hospital capacity to deal with covid spreading through the un-vaccinated population. And haven't seen any evidence they are gearing up for when this happens. I think opening the borders is going to be a very slow process here.
I am hoping that vaccinated sports teams might get an early exemption to travel, and be one of the first groups allowed to cross borders with very controlled conditions.
Legend
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Govt has made some comments around what the border opening looks like once most of NZ is vaxed, isolating at home was one option for the likes of groups, instead of using MIQ facilities, hopefully coming into summer our hospitals are under less pressure and capacity isnt an issue - although our system is always under some pressure from something. Thanks to the poor state of our medical care system (that's another issue). Nothing is guaranteed and we need to complete the vaccinations for as many people as possible. November/December has been discussed as dates when they expect to have offered the vax to everyone. Whether they've taken it up is again another issue. No-one will get 100% vaccination rates, even in a govt mandated situation. As many as possible will give us the best chance to maintain restriction free travel and running of the country.
Marquee
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Ranix
I can see the NZ government dragging the chain on opening borders even at 80% vac rates. Just don't think we have the MoH hospital capacity to deal with covid spreading through the un-vaccinated population. And haven't seen any evidence they are gearing up for when this happens. I think opening the borders is going to be a very slow process here.
I am hoping that vaccinated sports teams might get an early exemption to travel, and be one of the first groups allowed to cross borders with very controlled conditions.

Suspect you are likely right, and yes the NZ health system needs to be protected as much as possible. However I think there room for some optimism can achieve 90% full vaccinated adult popn by Xmas. 

By 90% benchmark, the remaining 10% (this is people aged over 16) would have had months to book in, getting vaccinated. A hard core of that remaining 10% will just be anti vax, with no plans at all to get jabbed. They can't be holding the vaccinated 90% to 'ransom'. Time then to reopen the TT border without MIQ, for the vaccinated.

Work also needs to start ASAP on getting kids vaccinated. Aus has started with the 12-16 age bracket.
Legend
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12-16's can be vaxed in NZ now too.
Legend
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Vaccinations are very promising, but what is the path forward? Clouded the future is.

Gordon Campbell always checks things up. Here his 2 cents:
“Even at 90 % levels of vaccination, the trade-offs involved in “living with Covid in the community” won’t be tidy….Judging by the Doherty Institute modelling in Australia, the comparable death toll here would be staggering :

Assuming 80 per cent vaccination coverage for only those over 16, as per the National Plan, there could be approximately 25,000 fatalities [in Australia] and some 270,000 cases of long COVID.In contrast, and if children are also fully vaccinated, national fatalities – for all age groups – would be reduced to 19,000 with 80 per cent adult vaccination coverage. This would fall to 10,000 at a 90 per cent adult vaccination coverage.”

Adjusting for population size, that 90% vaccination scenario would suggest the price of unrestricted “living with Covid” would result in the deaths of around 2,000 New Zealanders, or an average of about 20 deaths per day over the three months of summer.”

It’s not been a trade off people have been interested in yet, probably because it hasn’t been put in those terms. 

The week after the level drops to 2 and below in Auckland is going to be interesting. 
I mean I’ve had 15 months of wearing a mask every time I leave the house. There would at least be a bit of that in the mix you’d think.

Lawyerish
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I am not an anti lock down guy by any stretch and am more then happy Auckland doing the hard yards. Doing some COVID comparing there been some serious losers and winners during this pandemic and some who are just taking the piss and having a holiday

The losers include many, failed businesses, underemployed, unemployed and of course those who have contracted COVID and those who have died.

Some government employees have done the country proud and obviously many within the health system.

But, I’m sorry government employees at level two working for a very large government organisation who are only working in the office half the time  are just taking the piss and I class along with the Auckland wanaka holiday wankas.

Get back to work and do some soft yards for your country  like you are luckily paid to do and say thank you every day for having a job. Only asking you to actually follow the COVID rules like the rest of us
Legend
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This is how NZ is feeling:

“Kiwis were generally wary about reopening borders, with 64 per cent agreeing that they should only be opened once the country had more than 90 per cent of people vaccinated. About a quarter (26 per cent) said the border settings should be relaxed once everyone had had a chance to get vaccinated.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300407943/covid19-nz-new-poll-has-national-at-just-21-per-cent-act-not-far-behind-at-15-per-cent

Marquee
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The government has said they wont announce the target for opening the border properly, but my feeling is it's  closer to 90% than the 70% that Australia is targeting.

However, they're still talking about re-opening the travel bubble with Australia and are also starting a home isolation trial later this year, so I have a feeling they might surprise us.

 NSW has hit 80% vax, but they're only vaccinating 16 and over, because we're vaccinating 12s and up we've actually hit a higher percentage of the population at 70%
Legend
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I completely understand the need for them right now but i really hope when vaccine rates hit 80%+ we can avoid hard lockdowns like this ever again. This last month has been absolutely awful. I do appreciate some will be fine and perhaps even enjoy lockdown, but i think many do find it very tough, particularly on their mental health.
Marquee
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Buffon II
I completely understand the need for them right now but i really hope when vaccine rates hit 80%+ we can avoid hard lockdowns like this ever again. This last month has been absolutely awful. I do appreciate some will be fine and perhaps even enjoy lockdown, but i think many do find it very tough, particularly on their mental health.
Yep, it would suck to be in lockdown for months, but it's also their own fault - they didn't put in place the correct restrictions to beat the virus, and the state leadership had talked down the effectiveness of lockdowns before they were needed, so there was limited buy in. They've screwed up the public health response for the rest of Australia.

The modeling they're pursuing to re-open at 70% full vaccination was based on less than 30 new cases per day, with the amount of spread they've got the new modeling shows it's going to be horrendous and that they will peak around Christmas.
Legend
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AucklandPhoenix
I am not an anti lock down guy by any stretch and am more then happy Auckland doing the hard yards. Doing some COVID comparing there been some serious losers and winners during this pandemic and some who are just taking the piss and having a holiday

The losers include many, failed businesses, underemployed, unemployed and of course those who have contracted COVID and those who have died.

Some government employees have done the country proud and obviously many within the health system.

But, I’m sorry government employees at level two working for a very large government organisation who are only working in the office half the time  are just taking the piss and I class along with the Auckland wanaka holiday wankas.

Get back to work and do some soft yards for your country  like you are luckily paid to do and say thank you every day for having a job. Only asking you to actually follow the COVID rules like the rest of us

I'm one of those lucky govt employees in Welly, currently working from home until level 1. Why? Because out building has 4 lifts dealing with 16 floors across 3 organisations. You cannot socially distance in a lift and with the maximum of 2-3 people in said lifts I'd spend all day just trying to get into the office. Screw that for a joke. I'm much more effective and efficient at home. Yeah it sucks for all the Mojo's in town missing out on their regulars, but the local cafe is loving it, and my son is also enjoying the fact that I can pick him up from school on time with no stress.
Likening us to the rule breakers is just plain dumb and unnecessary.
Appiah without the pace
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AucklandPhoenix
I am not an anti lock down guy by any stretch and am more then happy Auckland doing the hard yards. Doing some COVID comparing there been some serious losers and winners during this pandemic and some who are just taking the piss and having a holiday

The losers include many, failed businesses, underemployed, unemployed and of course those who have contracted COVID and those who have died.

Some government employees have done the country proud and obviously many within the health system.

But, I’m sorry government employees at level two working for a very large government organisation who are only working in the office half the time  are just taking the piss and I class along with the Auckland wanaka holiday wankas.

Get back to work and do some soft yards for your country  like you are luckily paid to do and say thank you every day for having a job. Only asking you to actually follow the COVID rules like the rest of us

I assume this is referring to MBIE, where I work. We've been told that they are trying to make the building at 50% capacity to lower the risk of transmission. 

I hope you realise we actually work when we at home. Lot of MBIE people (and I across the public sector) have been drawn across to covid response while also progressing their normal work. So often their work load has been far more than usual. 

But glad you think I'm just as bad a couple who risked the health and economic of the South Island by going on a holiday.
Marquee
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I think the difference is last time at Level 2 the government encouraged all departments to go back to work in order to try and get people back into the CBD and stimulate the economy. This time round this hasn't happened, and the reality is that the delta level 2 restrictions makes it challenging to work in an office environment. I know some state owned enterprises and government departments are back in the office, and others are only in the office by exception not by the rule.

There's lots of little issues, like most desks are 1.8 metres wide which means the 2 metre restricitons have you either in the office based on a roster, or have 50% of people working from home.

The reality is, if you have to have a part of your team working remotely then it's more productive to have everyone do it.
Marquee
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martinb
Vaccinations are very promising, but what is the path forward? Clouded the future is.

Gordon Campbell always checks things up. Here his 2 cents:
“Even at 90 % levels of vaccination, the trade-offs involved in “living with Covid in the community” won’t be tidy….Judging by the Doherty Institute modelling in Australia, the comparable death toll here would be staggering :

Assuming 80 per cent vaccination coverage for only those over 16, as per the National Plan, there could be approximately 25,000 fatalities [in Australia] and some 270,000 cases of long COVID.In contrast, and if children are also fully vaccinated, national fatalities – for all age groups – would be reduced to 19,000 with 80 per cent adult vaccination coverage. This would fall to 10,000 at a 90 per cent adult vaccination coverage.”

Adjusting for population size, that 90% vaccination scenario would suggest the price of unrestricted “living with Covid” would result in the deaths of around 2,000 New Zealanders, or an average of about 20 deaths per day over the three months of summer.”

It’s not been a trade off people have been interested in yet, probably because it hasn’t been put in those terms. 

The week after the level drops to 2 and below in Auckland is going to be interesting. 
I mean I’ve had 15 months of wearing a mask every time I leave the house. There would at least be a bit of that in the mix you’d think.


Note that alternative research by the 3 Uni professors hasn't been peer reviewed. It seems to assume that Australia will go all UK, with a 'Freedom Day' and open up completely, so models very high scary case and death numbers. 

But that's not what is planned. More an easing of restrictions, and end to hard lockdowns. Here in SE QLD with no Covid, it's already masks on public transport, mask wearing at work (in offices), work stations 2 metres apart, masks out shopping etc etc. All that stuff ain't going away here or NSW & VIC, anytime soon no matter what vaccination rates they hit.

Not saying Doherty Institute have it exactly correct, and would rather see things start to open up at 80% adult popn vaccinated than 70%. But the plans here are certainly a more slower opening up than the UK. The goal should really be to hit 90% of adult popn fully vaccinated by Xmas, and same with 12-15 age bracket. Get to that 90% fully vaccinated level, with still lots of restrictions like mandatory mask wearing at work, shops etc - and health system hopefully won't be swamped.

Will likely take clear rewards for those vaccinated verus those that are not, to get to that 90% level. The carrot motivation. Proof of vaccine to watch live A League games, and all those other sorts of incentives.

Today's stats in NSW. 240 people in ICU, only 5 of whom are fully vaccinated. 12 deaths (age range 40s to 90s), only 2 of whom were fully vaccinated.

Covid is becoming a disease of the unvaccinated. Or crudely a brutal form of Darwinism. 

Yes is a very small number of people who for health reasons can't have the vaccine (and they deserve our best care in other ways), plus is number of mostly very elderly people with a very poor quality of life, who's families make difficult decision not to have them vaccinated. 

But that hard core of anti vax folk, they are plainly just ignoring all the evidence that these vaccines work and save lives. In life as an adult you are accountable for your own decisions, no one else is to blame. If you choose to get unvaccinated, there is a high chance Delta will find you. You are playing with your life, and maybe others close to you. But the stupid stupid decision to not get vaxxed was yours. Darwinism. I just have sympathy for the hard working healthcare workers that will have to deal with these fools on their ventilators.
Marquee
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Yep, and Bloomfield said at the press conference today that we're aiming for more than 90% of eligible people.

Seems like we can hit 80% with little effort, so 90% should be doable.
Trialist
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have you ever got vaccine?
Marquee
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Some semi surreal scenes beaming in from Melbourne, an earthquake and now hundreds of police (many in riot gear) ready to confront a hundred or so anti lockdown protestors. 

Victoria Police obviously much much better prepared than yesterday. Has the feel of turning ugly. Wonder how many of these 'protesters' will be in an ICU in 10 days. Media giving it the full monty.
Appiah without the pace
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Makes you glad our moronic section of the population is pretty small in comparison. 
Marquee
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2ndBest
Makes you glad our moronic section of the population is pretty small in comparison. 

Melbourne is just over 5M people. 

I'm sure if you took NZ in total, and put it through 6 hard lockdowns over 18 months (over 400 lockdown days in total??), you'd shake out a few anti lockdown/mask/vaccine morons out, at the end of that. 

But there is definitely a larger self entitled trade union movement in VIC/NSW especially, compared to NZ. Thinking that rules like 'no lunch smoko tearooms', mask wearing etc during Covid, they can just blatantly ignore, hence a surge in Covid cases on construction sites recently. So the VIC Govt closing the industry down for 2 weeks, when they have been so privileged to be allowed to operate through the pandemic. 

A bit pathetically tragic as millions of locked up folks in VIC & NSW, many of whom haven't worked for months watch via their TVs a small group of 'protesting' idiots, many of whom have worked right through the pandemic.


Marquee
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They said around 2,000 people yesterday with 60 arrests. The videos yesterday of rioters attacking police and police returning with tear gas were pretty crazy.

Their demands are ridiculous as well.
Marquee
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2ndBest
Makes you glad our moronic section of the population is pretty small in comparison. 
Unfortunately it seems to be growing. 
 
Apparently 20 people protesting outside a vaccination clinic in New Plymouth today.
Legend
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Certainly didn't help matters that they found the body of a  bloke who had committed suicide on a construction site the other day. Just going to fuel the fire and increase tensions ten fold.

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