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Park Life: 2008

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Marius Lacatus wrote:
at the very least it should be automatic relegation for the bottom CL side.
 
Rubbish.  When the best of Champs Premier can't beat the worst of Champs Premier + four players from CL then there's no way Champs Premier deserves automatic promotion.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bobboltontawa2 wrote:

2nd best before we go in2 playoff talk - have they decided weather to carry on with central league next year - or is this rumored 8 team wellington comp going to go ahead??? some would say after recent performances of napier/palmy/taranki and below average seasons of wellington united/western suburbs/stop out that maybe the league isn't at all as bad as we thought at the start of the season.

when does the central league contract end?
and where to from here?
 
Central League is guaranteed for next season.  Up for review in 2010.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Marius Lacatus wrote:
at the very least it should be automatic relegation for the bottom CL side.
 
Rubbish.  When the best of Champs Premier can't beat the worst of Champs Premier + four players from CL then there's no way Champs Premier deserves automatic promotion.
 
Rubbish. When the best of Champs Premier in 07 is leading CL 08 there is absolutely no way the bottom CL side shouldnt be relegated (I still accept there has to be a play off to decide who goes up). I actually dont like using this logic Smithy, but in response to your argument above, i think its useful.
 
If you come last you should go down. It works for CPL and Capital 1, so Im not sure why its not good enough for CL. I think it establishes much fairer risk and reward incentives for clubs. Clubs that are well enough organised, recruit, coach and are the best team in their league throughout the course of a full season, should be rewarded with promotion (or in this case, a play off with another Federation winner, then promotion). Teams that are the worst in their league throughout the course of a full season, shouldnt be given the opportunity to save their bums through a play off. It is not Stop Out's fault they will benefit from the current rules, but i think the fact they are on just 5 points and have an attrocious goal difference highlights the flaw in the current system, given they still have a good chance of avoiding the drop with the players they have brought into their side later in the season.
 
Furthermore, teams that get promoted will generally attract players in the off-season and be stronger by the time CL rolls around (Petone being a good example).
 
PS - I have nothing against Stop Out per se! I think I even once had the "p" from Stop Out shaved into the back of my head. Come to think of it, might have been the "t"
 
Marius Lacatus2008-07-28 20:37:46
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Marius Lacatus wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Marius Lacatus wrote:
at the very least it should be automatic relegation for the bottom CL side.[/QUOTE]
 
Rubbish.  When the best of Champs Premier can't beat the worst of Champs Premier + four players from CL then there's no way Champs Premier deserves automatic promotion.
[/QUOTE]
 
Rubbish. When the best of Champs Premier in 07 is leading CL 08 there is absolutely no way the bottom CL side shouldnt be relegated (I still accept there has to be a play off to decide who goes up). I actually dont like using this logic Smithy, but in response to your argument above, i think its useful.
 
If you come last you should go down.[/quote]

Nonsense.  If you can't beat a team already in the league over a home and away playoff then you don't deserve to be in the league.

[quote=marius]It works for CPL and Capital 1


Two leagues in which the cost of participation is about 10% of what it is in Central League.

The playoff arrangement is there to make sure that teams don't yoyo up and down.  More security in your league gives you a chance to develop players and facilities.

[quote=Marius]It is not Stop Out's fault they will benefit from the current rules, but i think the fact they are on just 5 points and have an attrocious goal difference highlights the flaw in the current system, given they still have a good chance of avoiding the drop with the players they have brought into their side later in the season.


It's good for the league if Stop Out survive.  They're a club that's tried to bring young players through and have blown out a bit but I'd much rather they lived to fight another year than they went down.
 
[quote=Marius]Furthermore, teams that get promoted will generally attract players in the off-season and be stronger by the time CL rolls around (Petone being a good example).


Who did Petone "attract"?
 
Bannatyne returned from TW/life to play at his old club but otherwise they've attracted nobody.  They won their way up emphatically through the playoff system and have done well.  If you make it easier to go of course the standard of teams coming up will be much lower.  Petone is a great advert FOR the playoff system not against it.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think the cactus has a good point...  pretty tough rod for the CP team to actually get promoted (sorry to the other league teams in the rest of the lower north island, but you are not quite at the same level)  having to play another 4-5-6 games befre they get to play the CL team....  definately advantage to the CL team that remains fresh and injury free... 
 
it should be straigh up straigh down, or as someone else suggested, semi finals and finals... what is so precious about the CL to warrant that?? 
 
Man it would be great if wairarapa got up...  Then you would have a good Central league, with all regions covered..  Wairarapa is the only district missing at the moment, and we can't count Dannevirke because they don't have a strip club yet and a town without a strip club doesn't deserve a CL team...  Word on the street is that the wheels are in motion, first step strip club, second step CL team!!!!
 
Here is a random thought....  What player carried Mirimar and is carrying the U23's??  Jeremy Brockie..
 
The CL would be a 5/6/7 horse race if it wasn't for that guy...  Mar's wheels have started to fall off, well maybe not fall off, but they have started to rotate the same as most other teams..  Stu's crew in asia right now is getting the results because of Brockie's ability to score...  Nelson will show up in time for the real games and be the rock he is, but the brokster is our real hope of winning a game or moving to the next stage in the olympics...
 
I would't be surprised to see him being picked up by an A league team this year, hopefully locally...
 
 
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.


I'd have thought you'd be quite keen to get them to implement the playoff system for the team bottom of CPL...

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.


I'd have thought you'd be quite keen to get them to implement the playoff system for the team bottom of CPL...
 
hardly. A league without automatic relegation is nonsense. A team could sit on their arse all year - maybe even default every game - then battle out a couple of nil nils in the playoffs and stay in the league. I hardly see how that is good for the game. If a team like Stop Out stays up with a handful of points it is a joke. They aren't doing anything more constructive than a lot of other clubs not in CL. Just because they are forced to play kids because they dont have depth doesnt make them 'all about the kids'- poor argument. So too is bringing in the cost to play in the league. That's up to the promoted club to sort out. I dare say Fiji B would not have a problem. And yes they are plenty good enough. They played some great football against Wests A- on Sunday.
Teams need incentives. Incentives to perform in CL and to perform in CPL. Vote for automatic promotion.
Feverish2008-07-28 22:29:05

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I agree with Feverish - not having automatic relegation is bollocks.

That means that any muppet team can play like c**ts all season and get lucky in a playoff. Bullsh*t
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

 
 
Marius wrote:
Furthermore, teams that get promoted will generally attract players in the off-season and be stronger by the time CL rolls around (Petone being a good example).[/quote]

Who did Petone "attract"?
 
Bannatyne returned from TW/life to play at his old club but otherwise they've attracted nobody.  They won their way up emphatically through the playoff system and have done well.  If you make it easier to go of course the standard of teams coming up will be much lower.  Petone is a great advert FOR the playoff system not against it.
 
Smithy I am not a fan of running these arguments based on peripheral points. The fundamental issue is establishing the right risk and reward incentives for consistently poor and consistently successful teams.
 
But as for your comment re Petone above, you cant have it both ways. Either Petone did recruit players (such as Bannatyne), which makes my point, or they didnt, in which case they are leading CL with the same team that won CPL, which totally undermines your point that the playoff is somehow necessary to test the competitveness of any side wanting to come up from CPL (remember, Petone couldnt even get past Taranaki two years ago in a play off).
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

 
(remember, Petone couldnt even get past Taranaki two years ago in a play off).
[/QUOTE]

Perhaps that is because the 18 year olds that are playing now were only 15 at the time.

However, back to the reason for the thread.

The playoff system was all set up to give the regional teams (non Wgtn) more of a chance of staying in the CL.  Remember, Wgtn are only one of the Assns in the Central League and voting always favours the regions. Always has, always will. Increasing team numbers in the Central League always occurred when a regional side finished bottom.
As it turns out, the bottom team in the CL now has to wait about 5 weeks until the playoffs finish. A CL team having a poor season is not likely to get behind in fixtures due to cup runs, so, like Petone last year, they had to arrange friendlys against teams who were ready to go to the beach. The playoffs were justified on the basis that playing in the Central League involved large investment and a team should be given every chance to stay there following that investment.

As for how the Central League division should be set up, potential should not be a reason to stay in the league. In any competition you are judged on results. I admire Stopout for trying to develop their youth, but if they are not good enough to do that in CL , then they need to go down a level until they are good enough. Petone proved it can be done.

We're Forever Causing Trouble

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
uiron wrote:

 
(remember, Petone couldnt even get past Taranaki two years ago in a play off).
[/QUOTE]

Perhaps that is because the 18 year olds that are playing now were only 15 at the time.


 
jeppers they must have aged a couple of years by playing in the CL!

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
so a park life report this week?
 
been a bit slack lately.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.


I'd have thought you'd be quite keen to get them to implement the playoff system for the team bottom of CPL...
 
 If a team like Stop Out stays up with a handful of points it is a joke. They aren't doing anything more constructive than a lot of other clubs not in CL. Just because they are forced to play kids because they dont have depth doesnt make them 'all about the kids'- poor argument.
 
 
The team that comes last in Central league should always have to play off ... What if the team that automatically got promoted was just as bad as the team that got demoted from central league? What is that achieving?
 In all fairness stop out should and shouldnt get another crack at the league next season... The coach and people running the team are not up to the job and have had a poor season in coaching and at selecting players who a majority of them you wouldnt even have in a capital 1 side.. The draw on sunday was against a Western Suburbs B side...
But whos to say they wont learn from there mistakes and change things next season? They have good youth coming through the grades some who are already playing central league but probally shouldnt be there just yet.. They are a good Financial Club... They have shown in the last 2 seasons before this they can compete in Central league...
Rumour has it the U23 boys Peverly and Fowler that stop out had transfered to them early in the season, are returning for the play offs to help keep stop out in the league..
I hope they stay up... Im sure the other wellington clubs would rather have Stop out in there than Waiarapa
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I know the people involved directly with the team and behind the scenes and the club and the team are run in a professional manner. To say that they are not up to it is an insult to them and to the club as a whole.
 
The problem is that for what ever reason experienced player from last year's 1st and the 2nd team decided to seek out new challenges . This has meant that the club has had to rebuild both the 1st and 2nd team this year . You can ask any coach round that it is hard to rebuild a team in Central league.
 
How about giving the team your support instead of constantly undermining it on this forum as you can take some of the credit for getting them their into Central league in the 1st place.
 
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
reefside wrote:
Feverish wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.


I'd have thought you'd be quite keen to get them to implement the playoff system for the team bottom of CPL...
 
 If a team like Stop Out stays up with a handful of points it is a joke. They aren't doing anything more constructive than a lot of other clubs not in CL. Just because they are forced to play kids because they dont have depth doesnt make them 'all about the kids'- poor argument.
 
 
The team that comes last in Central league should always have to play off ... What if the team that automatically got promoted was just as bad as the team that got demoted from central league? What is that achieving?
 
 
well they can get promoted back up to CL next year if they are that good.
So a team can lose every game of the year bar one play off and that makes them good? think about it fella

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
reefside wrote:
Feverish wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.


I'd have thought you'd be quite keen to get them to implement the playoff system for the team bottom of CPL...
 
 If a team like Stop Out stays up with a handful of points it is a joke. They aren't doing anything more constructive than a lot of other clubs not in CL. Just because they are forced to play kids because they dont have depth doesnt make them 'all about the kids'- poor argument.
 
 
The team that comes last in Central league should always have to play off ... What if the team that automatically got promoted was just as bad as the team that got demoted from central league? What is that achieving?
 
 
well they can get promoted back up to CL next year if they are that good.
So a team can lose every game of the year bar one play off and that makes them good? think about it fella
 
I never said anything bout stop out being good in central league, other than stop out generally speaking is a good club... Read the Quote above this post again.. If stop out doesnt deserve to be there then the next best team comming out of the play offs should have no trouble beating them then.. I dont think it will as easy as that though...
Its a privilige to play in Central league you should have to earn your spot in there... Thats why i think the play offs is a fair system
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Pass n Move wrote:
I know the people involved directly with the team and behind the scenes and the club and the team are run in a professional manner. To say that they are not up to it is an insult to them and to the club as a whole.
 
The problem is that for what ever reason experienced player from last year's 1st and the 2nd team decided to seek out new challenges . This has meant that the club has had to rebuild both the 1st and 2nd team this year . You can ask any coach round that it is hard to rebuild a team in Central league.
 
How about giving the team your support instead of constantly undermining it on this forum as you can take some of the credit for getting them their into Central league in the 1st place.
 
 
 
How could you argue that? Of course they are not up to it, stop out is last in central league... I cant beleive you just said that??
You are oviously not involved to a great level if you would say such a stupid statment as that...
I support the team i turn up to most home and some away games... Im just speaking the truth which you cannot handle...
I would ask a coach but i dont know any coaches who have rebuilt a team in central league since it has started back up..
Anyway topic closed..
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
reefside wrote:
 
I never said anything bout stop out being good in central league, other than stop out generally speaking is a good club... Read the Quote above this post again.. If stop out doesnt deserve to be there then the next best team comming out of the play offs should have no trouble beating them then.. I dont think it will as easy as that though...
Its a privilige to play in Central league you should have to earn your spot in there... Thats why i think the play offs is a fair system
 
this is not about Stop Out - though thats obviously all you care  about - it is about a fair league structure. What is so special about Central Lge that it is different from every other league?? A privelage? why?

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The cost to play in CL is certainly special.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 
[/QUOTE]
 
this is not about Stop Out - though thats obviously all you care  about - it is about a fair league structure. What is so special about Central Lge that it is different from every other league?? A privelage? why?
[/QUOTE]
 
 
Excuse me there not all i care about.. I know its not about stop out but since they are going to be in the relegation match they are a good example thats all..
 
Its a privelage because its the best grade avaliable to play in the  Lower north island Central area. I Think the structure of the league is pretty fair as it is..
 
Why do you twist my words feverish? I never said it was Special?
 
 
 
 
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rightstr wrote:
The cost to play in CL is certainly special.
 
depending on how much you pay your players its not actually that much - aprart from the trips to napier, taranaki and palmy - clubs hardly help themselves
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
there used to be several Central leagues Feverish2008-07-29 14:15:21

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i love how this has fired up!
 
it is a hard arguement. if there is going to be a play off system (that there is now) the bottom 2 teams should be involved, not just the 1 bottom team.
 
on the other hand i believe it should be the same as the other leagues with the bottom team going down straight away.
 
i dont know who brought up the $ side of things but alot of clubs have the ability to find (or have)more $ than people think and could cope with the costs of the CLl
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.


I'd have thought you'd be quite keen to get them to implement the playoff system for the team bottom of CPL...
 
hardly. A league without automatic relegation is nonsense.
 
What about NZFC?

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Marius Lacatus wrote:
But as for your comment re Petone above, you cant have it both ways. Either Petone did recruit players (such as Bannatyne), which makes my point, or they didnt, in which case they are leading CL with the same team that won CPL, which totally undermines your point that the playoff is somehow necessary to test the competitveness of any side wanting to come up from CPL (remember, Petone couldnt even get past Taranaki two years ago in a play off).
 
No.  My point was that Petone have done well BECAUSE they were promoted through the playoff system.
 
It's an extra hurdle that ensure the team seeking promotion is capable of competing at that level.
 
You were the one that threw the red herring in there about teams attracting players.  Petone attracted almost nobody (shows how closely you follow the leage) and did well, but they could be more certain of doing well having faced, and overcome, a playoff.
 
Taranaki on the other hand were relegated and thrown back in and struggled.  Sure they've had some tidy results lately but for most of the season they've been miles off the pace despite having been in that league last year.  They weren't even starting from scratch like a newly promoted team would be.
 
I'll go back to my original point.  If a team topping CP can't overcome the bottom placed CL team in a playoff then they don't deserve to be in the league.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bobboltontawa2 wrote:
rightstr wrote:
The cost to play in CL is certainly special.
 
depending on how much you pay your players its not actually that much - aprart from the trips to napier, taranaki and palmy - clubs hardly help themselves
 
You're talking 6 figures to take part in CL and compete.
 
Significant money.  A lot more than CP.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.


I'd have thought you'd be quite keen to get them to implement the playoff system for the team bottom of CPL...
 
hardly. A league without automatic relegation is nonsense.
 
What about NZFC?
 

They need two more teams in that comp

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bobboltontawa2 wrote:
so a park life report this week?
 
been a bit slack lately.
 
Fact.
 
We'll get a report up tonight or tomorrow morning.
 
Preview Friday.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
wairarapa deserve promotion, it would be good for the league to have some pacific flair in there. they are good enough and would beat stop out convincingly i reckon. rabo and soroman would be a handful for any central league defence!! so yeah i agree should be automatic relegation, and only one relegated from premier also!!
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Marius Lacatus wrote:
But as for your comment re Petone above, you cant have it both ways. Either Petone did recruit players (such as Bannatyne), which makes my point, or they didnt, in which case they are leading CL with the same team that won CPL, which totally undermines your point that the playoff is somehow necessary to test the competitveness of any side wanting to come up from CPL (remember, Petone couldnt even get past Taranaki two years ago in a play off).
 
No.  My point was that Petone have done well BECAUSE they were promoted through the playoff system.
 
It's an extra hurdle that ensure the team seeking promotion is capable of competing at that level.
 
You were the one that threw the red herring in there about teams attracting players.  Petone attracted almost nobody (shows how closely you follow the leage) and did well, but they could be more certain of doing well having faced, and overcome, a playoff.
 
Taranaki on the other hand were relegated and thrown back in and struggled.  Sure they've had some tidy results lately but for most of the season they've been miles off the pace despite having been in that league last year.  They weren't even starting from scratch like a newly promoted team would be.
 
I'll go back to my original point.  If a team topping CP can't overcome the bottom placed CL team in a playoff then they don't deserve to be in the league.
 

They would have been in there even if they had lost the playoff - and he did play for them once so does know a bit about them.

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Feverish wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Marius Lacatus wrote:
But as for your comment re Petone above, you cant have it both ways. Either Petone did recruit players (such as Bannatyne), which makes my point, or they didnt, in which case they are leading CL with the same team that won CPL, which totally undermines your point that the playoff is somehow necessary to test the competitveness of any side wanting to come up from CPL (remember, Petone couldnt even get past Taranaki two years ago in a play off).
 
No.  My point was that Petone have done well BECAUSE they were promoted through the playoff system.
 
It's an extra hurdle that ensure the team seeking promotion is capable of competing at that level.
 
You were the one that threw the red herring in there about teams attracting players.  Petone attracted almost nobody (shows how closely you follow the leage) and did well, but they could be more certain of doing well having faced, and overcome, a playoff.
 
Taranaki on the other hand were relegated and thrown back in and struggled.  Sure they've had some tidy results lately but for most of the season they've been miles off the pace despite having been in that league last year.  They weren't even starting from scratch like a newly promoted team would be.
 
I'll go back to my original point.  If a team topping CP can't overcome the bottom placed CL team in a playoff then they don't deserve to be in the league.
 

They would have been in there even if they had lost the playoff - and he did play for them once so does know a bit about them.

I think every one of those points is complete garbage, and in response to all of them, including your 'original' point, I quote Get In There Son, who I think summed things up very nicely when he said...
 
"That means any muppet team can play like c**ts all seson and get lucky with a play off. Bullsh*t."
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.


I'd have thought you'd be quite keen to get them to implement the playoff system for the team bottom of CPL...
 
hardly. A league without automatic relegation is nonsense.
 
What about NZFC?
 
You know that a franchise system work sin a completely different manner, spurious

Normo's coming home

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Smithy wrote:
[ 
No.  My point was that Petone have done well BECAUSE they were promoted through the playoff system.
 
You were the one that threw the red herring in there about teams attracting players.  Petone attracted almost nobody (shows how closely you follow the leage) and did well, but they could be more certain of doing well having faced, and overcome, a playoff.
 
I'll go back to my original point.  If a team topping CP can't overcome the bottom placed CL team in a playoff then they don't deserve to be in the league.
 
Sorry smithy, do you think Petone have done well because they have had much the same side together for 3 years, won their league and dominated, or because they played in the  playoffs?  I don't see the link there?  And probably coupled with the relative weakness of the league this year.
 
Surely finishing last in the Central League shows you aren't up to it.  Eg Stop Out this year, Taranaki last year.  Why put it to the lottery of a playoff?  Winning the playoff should be enough to send you up, that's earning it.  Finishing last and winning a playoff is not earning the right to stay up. 

Normo's coming home

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

The playoff system is a bit of a joke anyway with the top two from both the Pacific and Western leagues playing off when the winner does not always want to compete for promotion anyway. Petone had to wait 4 weeks for the first round of playoffs last year and didn't even play the winner of the playoff series that they were waiting to finish.

As far as automatic relegation goes no team so far has proved that they deserve a shot at the playoffs, Red Sox didn't get a single point, Taranaki got 5 draws but no wins and while Stop Out is better than the two bottom placed sides that have gone before them they probably deserve to go straight down. Having said that until the rules change best of luck to them. If they can get the U23 players back along with the likes of Steve G  it won't be easy for whoever wins the CPL
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
In my mind, winning the playoffs (prior to playing the bottom placed central league teams) is earning the right to have a crack at the CL.  It's not about proving you are better than the team from the league above, and you shouldn't have to.  They've played at a higher level all season, have a huge advantage in attracting players so it's not a fair match up.  But they've had their chance and failed, now it is someone elses turn.  That is how it works in every other league.
 
It's like the old NPC.  At the end of every season Northland, who'd usually only won a single game would play the winner of div 2, usually Hawkes Bay.  And smash them by 50 points.  Everyone knew that Hawkes Bay were a better union, but there was no way they could ever win a playoff.  It's the same principal here, and Petone have demonstrated it. 

Normo's coming home

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
James Dean - the voice of sanity

Founder

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Smithy wrote:
[ 
No.  My point was that Petone have done well BECAUSE they were promoted through the playoff system.
 
You were the one that threw the red herring in there about teams attracting players.  Petone attracted almost nobody (shows how closely you follow the leage) and did well, but they could be more certain of doing well having faced, and overcome, a playoff.
 
I'll go back to my original point.  If a team topping CP can't overcome the bottom placed CL team in a playoff then they don't deserve to be in the league.
 
Sorry smithy, do you think Petone have done well because they have had much the same side together for 3 years, won their league and dominated, or because they played in the  playoffs?  I don't see the link there?  And probably coupled with the relative weakness of the league this year.
 
Surely finishing last in the Central League shows you aren't up to it.  Eg Stop Out this year, Taranaki last year.  Why put it to the lottery of a playoff?  Winning the playoff should be enough to send you up, that's earning it.  Finishing last and winning a playoff is not earning the right to stay up. 
 
Okay.  I've run out of puff on this one.  Just to clarify I wasn't suggesting Petone have done well because they won through via a playoff but that the likelihood of them being competitive was higher if they had to overcome the additional hurdle of a playoff than if they gained direct promotion.
 
Your second paragraph I can't argue with but the issue, surely, isn't whether finishing bottom of CL shows you're not up to it but whether finishing top of CP shows that you are?
 
Beating that bottom team certainly demonstrates that you're capable of competing at that level (viz Petone).

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Feverish wrote:
i believe Marius has won that one Smithy.


I'd have thought you'd be quite keen to get them to implement the playoff system for the team bottom of CPL...
 
hardly. A league without automatic relegation is nonsense.
 
What about NZFC?
 
You know that a franchise system work sin a completely different manner, spurious
 
A franchise is just a club who purchases their position in a league.
 
It doesn't mean that franchise leagues - that do not have automatic relegataion - are "nonsense".  They're just run differently.  Which is fine and they work well.
 
Illustrates the fact that leagues do not have to have automatic relegation.
 
Not spurious at all.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
In my mind, winning the playoffs (prior to playing the bottom placed central league teams) is earning the right to have a crack at the CL.  It's not about proving you are better than the team from the league above, and you shouldn't have to.  They've played at a higher level all season, have a huge advantage in attracting players so it's not a fair match up.  But they've had their chance and failed, now it is someone elses turn.  That is how it works in every other league.
 
As always JD your posts are f*cking hard to argue with.
 
Question for you though: are you against the playoff system for the third promotion spot into the English Premier League?
 
As well as being designed to make good television that system was developed to make sure that the next team going up into the Premiership was resourced and able to compete in the top division.
 
I do agree that the relegation playoff is hard on the winner of CP and easier on the last-placed CL team. 
 

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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