it's not that I forgot it anything - the stacking comment was based on the fact that AFC's Aleague players where brought into the squad causing players who earned them the spot to be dropped - hence the "stacked" reference, it had nothing to do with the price of the opposition players, who actually earned their place in the comp - irrespective of their individual price tag.
As per my previous comment to Ballane, you know if your mate had actually submitted a successful OFC application or followed through with his threatened legal challenge and been successful and the Nix reserve team had won the comp (Yes, I know there are so many ifs there) you would have no issue with the Nix first team representing the country.
In fact you would be applauding and rightfully so.
Supporters need to stop moaning and instead start advocating for a fix to the problem.
That starts with the club developing better relationships with the island nations rather then doing little and hoping that one falls over.
In fact you would be applauding and rightfully so.
Supporters need to stop moaning and instead start advocating for a fix to the problem.
That starts with the club developing better relationships with the island nations rather then doing little and hoping that one falls over.
Auckland will rise once more
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AucklandPhoenix wrote:
As per my previous comment to Ballane, you know if your mate had actually submitted a successful OFC application or followed through with his threatened legal challenge and been successful and the Nix reserve team had won the comp (Yes, I know there are so many ifs there) you would have no issue with the Nix first team representing the country.
In fact you would be applauding and rightfully so.
Supporters need to stop moaning and instead start advocating for a fix to the problem.
That starts with the club developing better relationships with the island nations rather then doing little and hoping that one falls over.
see that's where you're wrong, Id be stoked the Nix were there but I'd be calling them out if theyd stacked the lineup with aleague players
plus you calling for thebmoaning to stop is a bit rich!
plus you calling for thebmoaning to stop is a bit rich!
Queenslander 3x a year.
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Personally I stand by the fact I don't believe it should be allowed that you can qualify using one team and send competing in a different confederation to the tournament, as I'm sure many other do. The OPL has rules around who can make these squad and those rules should not be altered for these interconfederation tournaments. Doesn't matter if it is the Nix, Auckland or some other side.
Preferably neither should have been able to gets sides in the OPL but a lack of other good bids from NZ means one had to. You don't need to see the bids to know why the Nix didn't get in, it's pretty obvious if you look at what the OPL was going for. Suffice to say, I probably won't be advocating for a million people to move to Wellington.
Hopefully the OPL can expand to 10 teams because New Caledonia deserves a side and the Nix would do wonders for helping make the league be more competitively balanced (although wouldn't help the problem that a large portion of Oceania money is being sent to Australian football)
Preferably neither should have been able to gets sides in the OPL but a lack of other good bids from NZ means one had to. You don't need to see the bids to know why the Nix didn't get in, it's pretty obvious if you look at what the OPL was going for. Suffice to say, I probably won't be advocating for a million people to move to Wellington.
Hopefully the OPL can expand to 10 teams because New Caledonia deserves a side and the Nix would do wonders for helping make the league be more competitively balanced (although wouldn't help the problem that a large portion of Oceania money is being sent to Australian football)
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I can see both arguments here.
The bigger rort in my opinion is FIFA and OFC providing one of OFC’s two A League clubs money for development and youth training and the other not. It’s a bit like giving Chelsea youth funding and Brighton get nothing tbh. And yes I’m sure some are much more comfortable operating in Infantino’s FIFA than others, even if we’ve moved on from Chuck Blazer and other local officials.
In terms of players it makes a mockery of the competition, BUT it is very early stages for the competition and they must be hoping the level of the OFC league will rise. And it does make sense to represent the confederation as well as possible, rather than have one sided results.
Again, though, the Australian league based team can’t be and hasn’t been allowed to be in any OFC confederation playoff. It does then look incredibly silly if the team can’t participate, but all of their players can. Even if you’re defending Auckland on practical reasons, that’s some ridiculous sophistry. I think both these arguments can be true and both positions valid in this case.
The bigger rort in my opinion is FIFA and OFC providing one of OFC’s two A League clubs money for development and youth training and the other not. It’s a bit like giving Chelsea youth funding and Brighton get nothing tbh. And yes I’m sure some are much more comfortable operating in Infantino’s FIFA than others, even if we’ve moved on from Chuck Blazer and other local officials.
In terms of players it makes a mockery of the competition, BUT it is very early stages for the competition and they must be hoping the level of the OFC league will rise. And it does make sense to represent the confederation as well as possible, rather than have one sided results.
Again, though, the Australian league based team can’t be and hasn’t been allowed to be in any OFC confederation playoff. It does then look incredibly silly if the team can’t participate, but all of their players can. Even if you’re defending Auckland on practical reasons, that’s some ridiculous sophistry. I think both these arguments can be true and both positions valid in this case.
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It gets worse when you remember that the aleague club receiving this money doesnt have an academy and has openly said they dont plan on using that model.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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Just for transparency i also dont think its right that the Phoenix get automatic qualification to the National League. Both them and Auckland should have to earn their spot not have it given to them.
I fail to see how anyone can think its okay for A League players to play in a competition where the team that earnt that spot play in an OFC competition.
If the excuse is that most of that team has disbanded, then a condition on entry to the OFC competition should be that if you qualify you have to be able to assemble the squad that won it.
And no AP as per normal you make assumptions that just arnt true and you have no idea about. I most certainly would be calling out the Phoenix if they were in the competition and had won it then replaced players in the team with A League players.
I fail to see how anyone can think its okay for A League players to play in a competition where the team that earnt that spot play in an OFC competition.
If the excuse is that most of that team has disbanded, then a condition on entry to the OFC competition should be that if you qualify you have to be able to assemble the squad that won it.
And no AP as per normal you make assumptions that just arnt true and you have no idea about. I most certainly would be calling out the Phoenix if they were in the competition and had won it then replaced players in the team with A League players.
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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the Nix and AFC being in the national leagues isnt realy the same, they can't get promoted or relegated, so they are litterally just taking up a spot in the league and providing additional competion points if you can beat them. Losing to them is almost meaningless because where they finish has no bearing on others chances of going up or down.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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theprof wrote:
the Nix and AFC being in the national leagues isnt realy the same, they can't get promoted or relegated, so they are litterally just taking up a spot in the league and providing additional competion points if you can beat them. Losing to them is almost meaningless because where they finish has no bearing on others chances of going up or down.
May not be but they still have players playing in a competition that they didnt win the right to be apart of,a spot was given to them. Then people wonder why some people in club land dont support the A League,right there is one of the reasons.
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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The issue with trying to make Squires and WeeNix function like other clubs is that you lose the entire point of these sides. They are development teams, meant to develop young player with the potential to step up to the A-League and beyond. Neither winning nor avoiding relegation should be the focus.
WeeNix are usually deserving of their spot anyway, typically being among the better Central League sides (this year being a pretty obvious exception) and if you remove the 2 reserve sides, it would probably be dropped to a 10 team competition.
WeeNix are usually deserving of their spot anyway, typically being among the better Central League sides (this year being a pretty obvious exception) and if you remove the 2 reserve sides, it would probably be dropped to a 10 team competition.
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I agree with both sides of the argument here - but isn't this all really just a bit of a storm in teacup kinda thing? First year of the OFC, new structures, new pathways - we're a tiny part of the footballing globe and and least it appears that something is trying to be built. If the same thing happens in a few years, assuming the OFC is still going, then maybe cause for concern. But right now, teams can only work with what's in front of them.
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Not much different from say, Chelsea play their 2nd team in early rounds of league cup, for example, but they don’t have to play those same players in later rounds.
An Auckland FC side won the right to play in the Asian championship. How they fill the team is their right.
An Auckland FC side won the right to play in the Asian championship. How they fill the team is their right.
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hepatitis wrote:
Not much different from say, Chelsea play their 2nd team in early rounds of league cup, for example, but they don’t have to play those same players in later rounds.
An Auckland FC side won the right to play in the Asian championship. How they fill the team is their right.
Sure. Unless Arsenal isn’t allowed a team in the league cup cos they’re from London…
A model where a team is forbidden from a competition, but not its players doesn’t strike you as plain bonkers?
I’m assuming they don’t have to re-register to Auckland (in OFC) and fax in registration for that completely different club, and register with Auckland in OFC. They remain contracted Australian A league players, playing in the OFC? But if they were an Australian team they can’t play.
A model where a team is forbidden from a competition, but not its players doesn’t strike you as plain bonkers?
I’m assuming they don’t have to re-register to Auckland (in OFC) and fax in registration for that completely different club, and register with Auckland in OFC. They remain contracted Australian A league players, playing in the OFC? But if they were an Australian team they can’t play.
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For context I may have to go back into some old threads and look at the observation of some here when Auckland City were preety much the guaranteed representative 😂
And again those who are saying it’s a rort and think they would be saying the same thing if the Nix first team were in Saudi, are having a laugh.
Just saying the lie a few times like Donald does, doesn’t make it true 😉
And again those who are saying it’s a rort and think they would be saying the same thing if the Nix first team were in Saudi, are having a laugh.
Just saying the lie a few times like Donald does, doesn’t make it true 😉
Auckland will rise once more
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hepatitis wrote:
Not much different from say, Chelsea play their 2nd team in early rounds of league cup, for example, but they don’t have to play those same players in later rounds.
An Auckland FC side won the right to play in the Asian championship. How they fill the team is their right.
Not it's not, there is a pretty major difference between calling players up and dropping players down.
The Auckland squad played in the Confederations Cup (or whatever it's called), would be completely illegal in the OPL and would see them disqualified. If Chelsea played their 2nd team in the Premier League, that would be allowed.
The Auckland squad played in the Confederations Cup (or whatever it's called), would be completely illegal in the OPL and would see them disqualified. If Chelsea played their 2nd team in the Premier League, that would be allowed.
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AucklandPhoenix wrote:
For context I may have to go back into some old threads and look at the observation of some here when Auckland City were preety much the guaranteed representative 😂
And again those who are saying it’s a rort and think they would be saying the same thing if the Nix first team were in Saudi, are having a laugh.
Just saying the lie a few times like Donald does, doesn’t make it true 😉
There are some of us on here who arnt like you so dont bother trying to claim we would be saying the same thing when you have no idea at all. Like most of your comments its all done on assumption and guesswork with little effort in trying to be truthful.
Do wonder why you bother when all your doing is mostly trolling. Unfortunately for some of us successfully. 😛
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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AucklandPhoenix wrote:
For context I may have to go back into some old threads and look at the observation of some here when Auckland City were preety much the guaranteed representative 😂
And again those who are saying it’s a rort and think they would be saying the same thing if the Nix first team were in Saudi, are having a laugh.
Just saying the lie a few times like Donald does, doesn’t make it true 😉
You won't find my old thoughts, but if you want them, the format for the OFC Champions League is pretty poor in a way that has helped Auckland City dominance. Arguably, it's surprising that they've not been more dominant.
Some of us are able to put our bias aside and be objective about the way things are, even when things are going in our benefit. If you can't, fair enough, but that doesn't mean none of us can.
Some of us are able to put our bias aside and be objective about the way things are, even when things are going in our benefit. If you can't, fair enough, but that doesn't mean none of us can.
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I would be very surprised if the majority of Nix supporters thought it would be the right thing to do if a Nix B side won the OPL and we didnt include any A players for a prestigious FIFA tournament. Get real!
The OPL has just started and its got quite a few issues to tidy up.
For a start only having one of the two AL pro teams in the comp. AFC get to hover up a big cheque from their Saudi junket which gives them an unfair advantage. The prize money should be divided equally to all the OPL clubs. The point of the whole thing is to develop Oceania football. Not to enrich a club owned by a billionaire
Secondly WTF is an Australian team doing in this comp. Is this some sort of deal to placate the Aussies for the participation of the two kiwi teams in the AL.? Wellington could have easily been a hub.
I still cant figure out how the Nix got excluded from the OPL. Ballane keeps dropping hints about how hes Domes beer buddy. Maybe he can shed some light on it
The OPL has just started and its got quite a few issues to tidy up.
For a start only having one of the two AL pro teams in the comp. AFC get to hover up a big cheque from their Saudi junket which gives them an unfair advantage. The prize money should be divided equally to all the OPL clubs. The point of the whole thing is to develop Oceania football. Not to enrich a club owned by a billionaire
Secondly WTF is an Australian team doing in this comp. Is this some sort of deal to placate the Aussies for the participation of the two kiwi teams in the AL.? Wellington could have easily been a hub.
I still cant figure out how the Nix got excluded from the OPL. Ballane keeps dropping hints about how hes Domes beer buddy. Maybe he can shed some light on it
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austin111 wrote:
I would be very surprised if the majority of Nix supporters thought it would be the right thing to do if a Nix B side won the OPL and we didnt include any A players for a prestigious FIFA tournament. Get real!
The OPL has just started and its got quite a few issues to tidy up.
For a start only having one of the two AL pro teams in the comp. AFC get to hover up a big cheque from their Saudi junket which gives them an unfair advantage. The prize money should be divided equally to all the OPL clubs. The point of the whole thing is to develop Oceania football. Not to enrich a club owned by a billionaire
Secondly WTF is an Australian team doing in this comp. Is this some sort of deal to placate the Aussies for the participation of the two kiwi teams in the AL.? Wellington could have easily been a hub.
I still cant figure out how the Nix got excluded from the OPL. Ballane keeps dropping hints about how hes Domes beer buddy. Maybe he can shed some light on it
Yes, OFC Pro League purpose should be to improve non NZ OFC countries. That payout from qualifying to play Al Ahli Saudi would have been massive for a Bula FC or Solomon Kings.
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I haven’t done the maths but with the OFC regs AFC don’t hover up all the prize money.
In short, they receive the first US$500,000 up front.
Then anything above that figure, it appears AFC keep 40 per cent with the remaining 60 percent of the additional money going to a solidarity fund. 90 per cent of this fund is distributed to the other clubs, with the 10 percent being used by OFC.
In short, they receive the first US$500,000 up front.
Then anything above that figure, it appears AFC keep 40 per cent with the remaining 60 percent of the additional money going to a solidarity fund. 90 per cent of this fund is distributed to the other clubs, with the 10 percent being used by OFC.
Auckland will rise once more
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AucklandPhoenix wrote:
I haven’t done the maths but with the OFC regs AFC don’t hover up all the prize money.
In short, they receive the first US$500,000 up front.
Then anything above that figure, it appears AFC keep 40 per cent with the remaining 60 percent of the additional money going to a solidarity fund. 90 per cent of this fund is distributed to the other clubs, with the 10 percent being used by OFC.
Club with 3 billionaire owners pocketing cheques that could be being distributed across the OFC: the Gianni tick ✅
Does that mean the OFC prize money has basically funded the Auckland A league salary cap this season? Could be as much as half of it, if it is 3 million for the boys.
And don’t forget that extra professional football development league being provided for their youngsters. At a time when the Nix are shut out of the Australia Cup too, which was where players like Paulsen got game time and even had a penalty shootout against Melbourne City. Nix shafted by both confederations.
Money almost spent in developing an Auckland stadium: doesn’t count it never happened.
Money invested in a women’s game: came from the government.
Does that mean the OFC prize money has basically funded the Auckland A league salary cap this season? Could be as much as half of it, if it is 3 million for the boys.
And don’t forget that extra professional football development league being provided for their youngsters. At a time when the Nix are shut out of the Australia Cup too, which was where players like Paulsen got game time and even had a penalty shootout against Melbourne City. Nix shafted by both confederations.
Money almost spent in developing an Auckland stadium: doesn’t count it never happened.
Money invested in a women’s game: came from the government.
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austin111 wrote:
I would be very surprised if the majority of Nix supporters thought it would be the right thing to do if a Nix B side won the OPL and we didnt include any A players for a prestigious FIFA tournament. Get real!
The OPL has just started and its got quite a few issues to tidy up.
For a start only having one of the two AL pro teams in the comp. AFC get to hover up a big cheque from their Saudi junket which gives them an unfair advantage. The prize money should be divided equally to all the OPL clubs. The point of the whole thing is to develop Oceania football. Not to enrich a club owned by a billionaire
Secondly WTF is an Australian team doing in this comp. Is this some sort of deal to placate the Aussies for the participation of the two kiwi teams in the AL.? Wellington could have easily been a hub.
I still cant figure out how the Nix got excluded from the OPL. Ballane keeps dropping hints about how hes Domes beer buddy. Maybe he can shed some light on it
dont think anyone said majority of nix players would find unsing the top team instead f those that qualified upsetting - I think those that have repleied have confirmed that they/we would be annoyed. Some of us belief in the fairness aspect of sport and its simply unfair to have one team qualify and then drop that team for another to play the event.
secondly if the OPL is there to develop talent in Oceania then leaving the Nix ut wo probably has the best academy in Oceania out is simply the dumbest thing ever. It smacks of appeasing the big billionaire who's swept in a created a club and literally said he's not gonna create any kind of academy and just use payers developed by other clubs.
secondly if the OPL is there to develop talent in Oceania then leaving the Nix ut wo probably has the best academy in Oceania out is simply the dumbest thing ever. It smacks of appeasing the big billionaire who's swept in a created a club and literally said he's not gonna create any kind of academy and just use payers developed by other clubs.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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austin111 wrote:
I would be very surprised if the majority of Nix supporters thought it would be the right thing to do if a Nix B side won the OPL and we didnt include any A players for a prestigious FIFA tournament. Get real!
The OPL has just started and its got quite a few issues to tidy up.
For a start only having one of the two AL pro teams in the comp. AFC get to hover up a big cheque from their Saudi junket which gives them an unfair advantage. The prize money should be divided equally to all the OPL clubs. The point of the whole thing is to develop Oceania football. Not to enrich a club owned by a billionaire
Secondly WTF is an Australian team doing in this comp. Is this some sort of deal to placate the Aussies for the participation of the two kiwi teams in the AL.? Wellington could have easily been a hub.
I still cant figure out how the Nix got excluded from the OPL. Ballane keeps dropping hints about how hes Domes beer buddy. Maybe he can shed some light on it
What rubbish i have never said at any stage im Domes beer buddy,your as bad as AP with making shit up. Have always been very clear that i have always spoken out directly to the club if i think something is wrong or to compliment them if something is good.
Unlike some who just want to throw out wild unfounded accusation i will try and talk to him and others at the club if i can as they are all approacable and only happy to talk about an issue if they can.
Which is surprising given some of the shocking emails that some fans think they have the right to send.
Im also on the FRG and and am lucky enough to sit in on the teams meetings which Dome and other club officals take part in from time to time
Unlike some who just want to throw out wild unfounded accusation i will try and talk to him and others at the club if i can as they are all approacable and only happy to talk about an issue if they can.
Which is surprising given some of the shocking emails that some fans think they have the right to send.
Im also on the FRG and and am lucky enough to sit in on the teams meetings which Dome and other club officals take part in from time to time
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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Don’t get all fired up by this question as it is a a serious one.
When was the last meeting and when is the next one scheduled?
When was the last meeting and when is the next one scheduled?
Auckland will rise once more
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chopah wrote:theprof wrote:why is that worse - why should everyone follow the same model?
It gets worse when you remember that the aleague club receiving this money doesnt have an academy and has openly said they dont plan on using that model.
The entire hypocracy of it all. A league built around the premise of development of players in the confederation and yet the club with the most money has refused to actually spend their own money and the money the receive for being in the tournamnet on actually developing kids. They are just gonna pilfer kds that are already developed from the wider region - sure that gives them the exposure to a "decent" level of football but AFC will have done none of the development yet gets al the rewards.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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theprof wrote:chopah wrote:The entire hypocracy of it all. A league built around the premise of development of players in the confederation and yet the club with the most money has refused to actually spend their own money and the money the receive for being in the tournamnet on actually developing kids. They are just gonna pilfer kds that are already developed from the wider region - sure that gives them the exposure to a "decent" level of football but AFC will have done none of the development yet gets al the rewards.theprof wrote:why is that worse - why should everyone follow the same model?
It gets worse when you remember that the aleague club receiving this money doesnt have an academy and has openly said they dont plan on using that model.
Absolutely no knowledge on how that system works. Take off the yellow-tinted glasses
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I haven't looked into all the back story, but I don't understand how it is that Auckland qualified as an OFC (Oceania Pro League) entity with OFC registed players and they are now participating as an Oceania representative (?) but effectively as an AFC (Australian A-League) entity with AFC registered players? Seems like FIFA levels of shenanigans are needed to make that make sense...
If it has been explained elsewhere, apologies, but I am genuinely curious how it's all considered above board. (Or have I the wrong end of the stick).
If it has been explained elsewhere, apologies, but I am genuinely curious how it's all considered above board. (Or have I the wrong end of the stick).
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theprof wrote:chopah wrote:The entire hypocracy of it all. A league built around the premise of development of players in the confederation and yet the club with the most money has refused to actually spend their own money and the money the receive for being in the tournamnet on actually developing kids. They are just gonna pilfer kds that are already developed from the wider region - sure that gives them the exposure to a "decent" level of football but AFC will have done none of the development yet gets al the rewards.theprof wrote:why is that worse - why should everyone follow the same model?
It gets worse when you remember that the aleague club receiving this money doesnt have an academy and has openly said they dont plan on using that model.
I really think you need to do some research on this - and then perhaps ask grassroots clubs in Wellington and Auckland about the pros and cons of each model.
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Silent wrote:
I haven't looked into all the back story, but I don't understand how it is that Auckland qualified as an OFC (Oceania Pro League) entity with OFC registed players and they are now participating as an Oceania representative (?) but effectively as an AFC (Australian A-League) entity with AFC registered players? Seems like FIFA levels of shenanigans are needed to make that make sense...
If it has been explained elsewhere, apologies, but I am genuinely curious how it's all considered above board. (Or have I the wrong end of the stick).
it's one club - two competitions - like how a team built of players might win promotion from the championship and then none of them play in the Premier League. the confederation thing is a little confusing to fit the narrative in this part of the world but it's not worth two or three pages of complaining - the Nix would (and should) do the exact same thing if they were in this situation (which they should be).
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What’s interesting with so called Bling FC, is that when Foley came on board he said he wanted the club to be breaking even and self sufficient come year three.
With the salary hard cap and no obvious expensive marquee on the books reducing squad costs
And
Significant money coming in from FIFA from having a number of players at the World Cup.
And
Money from playing in the FIFA intercontinental cup
And
Two home derbies this season.
And
Likely increase in sponsorship dollars.
Maybe this might actually occur this year?
With the salary hard cap and no obvious expensive marquee on the books reducing squad costs
And
Significant money coming in from FIFA from having a number of players at the World Cup.
And
Money from playing in the FIFA intercontinental cup
And
Two home derbies this season.
And
Likely increase in sponsorship dollars.
Maybe this might actually occur this year?
Auckland will rise once more
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chopah wrote:Silent wrote:it's one club - two competitions - like how a team built of players might win promotion from the championship and then none of them play in the Premier League. the confederation thing is a little confusing to fit the narrative in this part of the world but it's not worth two or three pages of complaining - the Nix would (and should) do the exact same thing if they were in this situation (which they should be).
I haven't looked into all the back story, but I don't understand how it is that Auckland qualified as an OFC (Oceania Pro League) entity with OFC registed players and they are now participating as an Oceania representative (?) but effectively as an AFC (Australian A-League) entity with AFC registered players? Seems like FIFA levels of shenanigans are needed to make that make sense...
If it has been explained elsewhere, apologies, but I am genuinely curious how it's all considered above board. (Or have I the wrong end of the stick).
Except it is absolutely nothing like that. In your example the first team get promoted and then the first team play in the Premier League. The OPL side didn't get promoted to the A-League nor will any of these players being competing in the OPL next year (nor is it OPL legal).
These are completely separate teams. One team does all the work in earning the qualifying spot, another gets all the glory.
These are completely separate teams. One team does all the work in earning the qualifying spot, another gets all the glory.
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chopah wrote:Silent wrote:it's one club - two competitions - like how a team built of players might win promotion from the championship and then none of them play in the Premier League. the confederation thing is a little confusing to fit the narrative in this part of the world but it's not worth two or three pages of complaining - the Nix would (and should) do the exact same thing if they were in this situation (which they should be).
I haven't looked into all the back story, but I don't understand how it is that Auckland qualified as an OFC (Oceania Pro League) entity with OFC registed players and they are now participating as an Oceania representative (?) but effectively as an AFC (Australian A-League) entity with AFC registered players? Seems like FIFA levels of shenanigans are needed to make that make sense...
If it has been explained elsewhere, apologies, but I am genuinely curious how it's all considered above board. (Or have I the wrong end of the stick).
Nothing like that at all but guess it sounds good. Cant agree at all thats how it should be done.
Another FIFA rort a club with a team playing in one confederation qualifies to represent that conferderation but wait their other team that plays in another confederation replaces them,yeah that sounds great lets do that.
Despite what some of you continually claim some of us most certainly wouldnt be happy should the Phoenix do the same thing.
No need at all for there to be any confusion about the Confederations one is Asia the other is Oceania, the confusion arises when FIFA starts allowing dodgey stuff to be done.
Another FIFA rort a club with a team playing in one confederation qualifies to represent that conferderation but wait their other team that plays in another confederation replaces them,yeah that sounds great lets do that.
Despite what some of you continually claim some of us most certainly wouldnt be happy should the Phoenix do the same thing.
No need at all for there to be any confusion about the Confederations one is Asia the other is Oceania, the confusion arises when FIFA starts allowing dodgey stuff to be done.
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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chopah wrote:theprof wrote:I really think you need to do some research on this - and then perhaps ask grassroots clubs in Wellington and Auckland about the pros and cons of each model.chopah wrote:The entire hypocracy of it all. A league built around the premise of development of players in the confederation and yet the club with the most money has refused to actually spend their own money and the money the receive for being in the tournamnet on actually developing kids. They are just gonna pilfer kds that are already developed from the wider region - sure that gives them the exposure to a "decent" level of football but AFC will have done none of the development yet gets al the rewards.theprof wrote:why is that worse - why should everyone follow the same model?
It gets worse when you remember that the aleague club receiving this money doesnt have an academy and has openly said they dont plan on using that model.
blah blah blah, well aware of the history of the nix and what the did to clubs before the academy came along - I happen to be on the board of one of them. That being said it all happened well before AFC came onto the scene.
If you'd quit trying to distract from the point - which in simple terms is this, if the OPL was built to develop player in Oceania and to give money to clibs that either will or are developing players now and into the future the Nix seems the more obvious choice. Except for the fact that AFC's owner is a billionaire and OFC/FIFA love them,.
If you'd quit trying to distract from the point - which in simple terms is this, if the OPL was built to develop player in Oceania and to give money to clibs that either will or are developing players now and into the future the Nix seems the more obvious choice. Except for the fact that AFC's owner is a billionaire and OFC/FIFA love them,.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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ballane wrote:chopah wrote:Nothing like that at all but guess it sounds good. Cant agree at all thats how it should be done.Silent wrote:it's one club - two competitions - like how a team built of players might win promotion from the championship and then none of them play in the Premier League. the confederation thing is a little confusing to fit the narrative in this part of the world but it's not worth two or three pages of complaining - the Nix would (and should) do the exact same thing if they were in this situation (which they should be).
I haven't looked into all the back story, but I don't understand how it is that Auckland qualified as an OFC (Oceania Pro League) entity with OFC registed players and they are now participating as an Oceania representative (?) but effectively as an AFC (Australian A-League) entity with AFC registered players? Seems like FIFA levels of shenanigans are needed to make that make sense...
If it has been explained elsewhere, apologies, but I am genuinely curious how it's all considered above board. (Or have I the wrong end of the stick).
Another FIFA rort a club with a team playing in one confederation qualifies to represent that conferderation but wait their other team that plays in another confederation replaces them,yeah that sounds great lets do that.
Despite what some of you continually claim some of us most certainly wouldnt be happy should the Phoenix do the same thing.
No need at all for there to be any confusion about the Confederations one is Asia the other is Oceania, the confusion arises when FIFA starts allowing dodgey stuff to be done.
I for one certinaly hope the nix get the chance to get into the O-League and test this theory - you would be crazy as the club not to do this.
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Significant money coming into the brand new professional club with at least 3 billionaire owners involved from FIFA.
No support for the club that’s ridden the rapids of metrics, Terry, etc for two decades. Not being able to get our transfers through because the NZFC support was so wonky or non-existent at times.
A significant amount of FIFA money that could go to the islands goes to this private concern in Auckland.
The Australian A League team Auckland can’t represent OFC, but all their players can? No faxes to register and deregister and reregister between confederations? Easy as a pre-season trip? It makes sense to have the strongest teams play. But it’s ludicrous the sophistry.
How many stadia in the islands could host an age group World Cup? Or an A league team, say? What would it take to strengthen or increase academy systems in the islands?
Auckland, with perhaps the strongest economy in the OFC for ticket sales, merchandise, sponsorship etc, is self sustaining. (In fact, I’m fairly sure the Nix lost sponsors they had because they lost their Auckland games.) How’s any of that helping the islands?
‘But the Nix would do it.’ So this is an admission of guilt, but hey, we all just want to make hay right? Get that development time and FIFA money. We know it’s a bad look, and morally dubious, but everyone and anyone would chase the cash for their business.
As it’s also dubious that there’s some support for professional football from OFC, and they exclude the only club that’s been flying the flag for professional football in the OFC for 20 years (most of them at a loss) and has been unable to represent the OFC during that time. And they include South Melbourne, but exclude them. But now it’s fine for the A League team to be involved. The organisation. And the players. But not the A league team.
Good news, Cosgrove is a renewable resource, a colossus who straddles two confederations!
Sure, it’s all fine. The Nix would do it. Auckland is just better with the business. All hail Becker and McFlynn.
No support for the club that’s ridden the rapids of metrics, Terry, etc for two decades. Not being able to get our transfers through because the NZFC support was so wonky or non-existent at times.
A significant amount of FIFA money that could go to the islands goes to this private concern in Auckland.
The Australian A League team Auckland can’t represent OFC, but all their players can? No faxes to register and deregister and reregister between confederations? Easy as a pre-season trip? It makes sense to have the strongest teams play. But it’s ludicrous the sophistry.
How many stadia in the islands could host an age group World Cup? Or an A league team, say? What would it take to strengthen or increase academy systems in the islands?
Auckland, with perhaps the strongest economy in the OFC for ticket sales, merchandise, sponsorship etc, is self sustaining. (In fact, I’m fairly sure the Nix lost sponsors they had because they lost their Auckland games.) How’s any of that helping the islands?
‘But the Nix would do it.’ So this is an admission of guilt, but hey, we all just want to make hay right? Get that development time and FIFA money. We know it’s a bad look, and morally dubious, but everyone and anyone would chase the cash for their business.
As it’s also dubious that there’s some support for professional football from OFC, and they exclude the only club that’s been flying the flag for professional football in the OFC for 20 years (most of them at a loss) and has been unable to represent the OFC during that time. And they include South Melbourne, but exclude them. But now it’s fine for the A League team to be involved. The organisation. And the players. But not the A league team.
Good news, Cosgrove is a renewable resource, a colossus who straddles two confederations!
Sure, it’s all fine. The Nix would do it. Auckland is just better with the business. All hail Becker and McFlynn.
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theprof wrote:chopah wrote:blah blah blah, well aware of the history of the nix and what the did to clubs before the academy came along - I happen to be on the board of one of them. That being said it all happened well before AFC came onto the scene.theprof wrote:I really think you need to do some research on this - and then perhaps ask grassroots clubs in Wellington and Auckland about the pros and cons of each model.chopah wrote:The entire hypocracy of it all. A league built around the premise of development of players in the confederation and yet the club with the most money has refused to actually spend their own money and the money the receive for being in the tournamnet on actually developing kids. They are just gonna pilfer kds that are already developed from the wider region - sure that gives them the exposure to a "decent" level of football but AFC will have done none of the development yet gets al the rewards.theprof wrote:why is that worse - why should everyone follow the same model?
It gets worse when you remember that the aleague club receiving this money doesnt have an academy and has openly said they dont plan on using that model.
If you'd quit trying to distract from the point - which in simple terms is this, if the OPL was built to develop player in Oceania and to give money to clibs that either will or are developing players now and into the future the Nix seems the more obvious choice. Except for the fact that AFC's owner is a billionaire and OFC/FIFA love them,.
blah blah blah is an interesting way to engage on a topic - like your opinion is the only one in the room - and I'm not trying to distract from the point, you seem unaware (or if I give you the benefit of the doubt unwilling) to understand that grassroot clubs in the non junior academy model actually benefit more financially - like I said there are pro's and con's to both systems but my actual overall point is stop acting like Auckland FC are not bothered with youth just because they choose another path which as a club in their region, on the board at that club, seem to think it's working pretty well.
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theprof wrote:chopah wrote:blah blah blah, well aware of the history of the nix and what the did to clubs before the academy came along - I happen to be on the board of one of them. That being said it all happened well before AFC came onto the scene.theprof wrote:I really think you need to do some research on this - and then perhaps ask grassroots clubs in Wellington and Auckland about the pros and cons of each model.chopah wrote:The entire hypocracy of it all. A league built around the premise of development of players in the confederation and yet the club with the most money has refused to actually spend their own money and the money the receive for being in the tournamnet on actually developing kids. They are just gonna pilfer kds that are already developed from the wider region - sure that gives them the exposure to a "decent" level of football but AFC will have done none of the development yet gets al the rewards.theprof wrote:why is that worse - why should everyone follow the same model?
It gets worse when you remember that the aleague club receiving this money doesnt have an academy and has openly said they dont plan on using that model.
If you'd quit trying to distract from the point - which in simple terms is this, if the OPL was built to develop player in Oceania and to give money to clibs that either will or are developing players now and into the future the Nix seems the more obvious choice. Except for the fact that AFC's owner is a billionaire and OFC/FIFA love them,.
Feels like this whole discussion is really going nowhere, but it seems quite disingenuous (if not wrong) to claim AFC are not developing players through their OFC team. From the players who played in the squad the following have (re)-signed deals for the coming season: Normann, Prins, Wynne, Fitzharris, Vicelich, Ferguson (though since had to leave due to personal reasons) and Bidois; Gillion also signed at WSW. That's 8 players who signed to play at a higher level than they otherwise would have had AFC not been in the league.
It seems very splitting hairs that kids like Fitzharris, Vicelich, Naidoo etc that join at 17 are different to a kid who might join Wellington at 16 (or older) to formally join an 'academy'. These players are absolutely developed at AFC just as much as a Luke Mitchell (joined from Hamilton Wanderers), Ryan Lee (joined from North Wellington) etc are developed at Wellington. They are good players when they join who become better once they get into a higher performance environment - as is the case when players join Wellington.
The majority of the 'academy' kids would have also likely not been involved in the OFC Pro League, had there been a team anyway. There is a reason AFC signed additional players than just their National League squad, which has been stronger than the Wellington reserve team these last two seasons. They are just not at the level yet - they would need quite a few new players - almost a whole new squad. (Or go in full naïveté and finish last).
AFC's plan is to keep players playing their football at their clubs until joining the Reserves in the National League - those identified into the system will train at AFC mid-week and then play for their club Saturday/Sunday. When ready they'll join the Reserves - the success of this has already been seen that the current U19 squad has 8/9 AFC players.
That AFC have a billionaire owner is just ad hominem - the ownership wealth of Welnix is far greater than that of South Island Utd. I haven't seen/heard anything to that effect, but happy to be shown instances in which Foley has given millions to OFC as a bribe
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the difference between the two systems:
one club wants to develop talent though an academy and age group teams - ie they invest in youth and grow them
the other wants regional clubs to develop the talent for them and select them for their reserve teams or OPL or Aleague team when the peak where is the investment of the money the OPL gives them?
both identify talent sure, one actually invests money into developing it, the other does not. And yet the one system that identifies tale young and invests in developing said talent doesn't get into the league that is built to develop and grow talent.
one club wants to develop talent though an academy and age group teams - ie they invest in youth and grow them
the other wants regional clubs to develop the talent for them and select them for their reserve teams or OPL or Aleague team when the peak where is the investment of the money the OPL gives them?
both identify talent sure, one actually invests money into developing it, the other does not. And yet the one system that identifies tale young and invests in developing said talent doesn't get into the league that is built to develop and grow talent.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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theprof wrote:
the difference between the two systems:
one club wants to develop talent though an academy and age group teams - ie they invest in youth and grow them
the other wants regional clubs to develop the talent for them and select them for their reserve teams or OPL or Aleague team when the peak where is the investment of the money the OPL gives them?
both identify talent sure, one actually invests money into developing it, the other does not. And yet the one system that identifies tale young and invests in developing said talent doesn't get into the league that is built to develop and grow talent.
it's staggering how you miss the point again.
Nix spend money on developing players - yes and then financially recoup some of it when they sell players at the first team as they have most of the 15-21 years of development age for training compensation
Auckland FC don't spend the money on developing players - let the clubs develop them and then the clubs get the financial rewards when those players go pro somewhere - be it Auckland or somewhere else.
Like I said two different systems - but pro's and con's of both pretty obvious.
Nix spend money on developing players - yes and then financially recoup some of it when they sell players at the first team as they have most of the 15-21 years of development age for training compensation
Auckland FC don't spend the money on developing players - let the clubs develop them and then the clubs get the financial rewards when those players go pro somewhere - be it Auckland or somewhere else.
Like I said two different systems - but pro's and con's of both pretty obvious.
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