I was at Western Springs v Coastal yesterday and the matchday programme mentions intended architecturally led upgrades to the Springs pavilion/clubhouse. Strange if they intend shifting facilities.
Edit: maybe the Mowbrays are putting some of their $ into the Springs pavilion as is plus offering more playing fields at the AuckFC proposed site.
Why can't we be brave and bold with decisions like this? Sigh.
We? Eden park is getting government funding - pertty sure we would jump at that to get an upgrade on the stadium.
We being the nation.
I don't really care too much about an us vs them when it comes to stadia in this country. For once it would be nice to see those in power make a decision that, like I said earlier, would be bold and brave.
Pumping however many millions into revamping Eden Park seems nonsensical, when as far as I've seen $$$ wise, it would actually cost less to build a brand new stadium from scratch. My overall hatred for Eden Park probably comes in to the fold somewhat in my sentiments as well - Just to disclose my position in its entirety.
While we're at it, the government probably need new fast track application $$$ for a new Navy ship too! Ohh 😯
The Western Springs article mentioned the possibility of a waterfront stadium? Perhaps showing the regard current decision makers are held in, or that they were expecting a different result?
As for hatred for Eden Park…it’s completely rational. Even those of us who have so many good memories there. We’ve seen a well connected board playing on nostalgia trying to hoover up as many events as possible, noodle markets, Pasifika events, etc etc.
I mean in part they’ve been shafted by Sky TV becoming so powerful, demanding night games and the weakness of Auckland rugby and the NPC. But in part they’ve just shown bad faith, while appealing to nostalgia, time and again, to get at taxes and rates just to get by and not having a convincing business case.
Ok, So we get another patch up job for Eden Park that is going to cost millions. 50,000+ capacity For what? For whom? A covered stadium only works if you are allowed to have lots of big concerts. Good luck with that. Another white elephant project that fails to meet the demands of modern sport.
The Western Springs article mentioned the possibility of a waterfront stadium? Perhaps showing the regard current decision makers are held in, or that they were expecting a different result?
As for hatred for Eden Park…it’s completely rational. Even those of us who have so many good memories there. We’ve seen a well connected board playing on nostalgia trying to hoover up as many events as possible, noodle markets, Pasifika events, etc etc.
I mean in part they’ve been shafted by Sky TV becoming so powerful, demanding night games and the weakness of Auckland rugby and the NPC. But in part they’ve just shown bad faith, while appealing to nostalgia, time and again, to get at taxes and rates just to get by and not having a convincing business case.
Eden Park, for a stadium with all it's history, the fond memories, and the jolly good old times in our sporting landscape, well to be honest, it's just horrendously past it's used by date isn't it?
Shark location, which packs out once or twice a year for All Blacks games + maybe a concert or two, and it's going to cost over a billion dollars to re-do? Ridiculous
Do it once, do it right, do it on the waterfront.
Would be a hell of a lot more of an experience to head to a waterfront stadium for whatever sporting event, and then casually be able to stroll into town, the bars, the restaurants just down the road. Rather than try to leave that old dog early just to try and beat traffic out of a residential neighbourhood with 40-50k others, just to head to the same part of town. I know this isn't the only reasoning, but location is a big issue in all of this.
We just can't make that link in this country can we? Just always have to go the tried and tested, rather than try something that is proven to work in a helluva' lot of places around the world.
The problem with the Eden Park upgrade is kind of in the wording they use themselves:
“a world-class hybrid, multi-purpose 50,000+ capacity stadium with a retractable roof”
You can't really have a World Class stadium that tries to be a jack of all trades - a stadium that tries to accommodate both cricket and rectangle sports fields has to make too many compromises to accommodate such different sports to be very good at either.
Not to mention the difficulties they face having a stadium in a residential area.
The beauty of having a waterfront stadium (among other things) is that when upgrades or expansions are to be made decade's down the line, or applications to be allowed to host more events or extend a curfew - it's much less likely to get opposition from neighbours when you are situated in a commercial or industrial zone.
When the waterfront proposal first got reported on, I thought that surely this time they would get it right and not choose Eden Park. Have they learned nothing from choosing Eden Park for the 2011 RWC? It was only 13 years ago and the debate between a new stadium and upgrading the old one (again) has already been going on for a few years. I wouldn't be surprised if 10-15 years from now we are subjected to this all over again.
Something i have often wondered about given what we get continually told about climate change and sea levels is a waterfront option really a responsible move for the future.
Eden Park, as a former swamp, is part of the flood plan for the ‘sponge’ city! Yeh, one reason it’s been put off so long you’d suspect is that all the options for a large stadium have massive drawbacks, stadiums everywhere run at a loss and while the Blues haven’t been filling the stadium there’s not a regular tenant likely to use it to capacity.
As Half-A-Pint alludes to a lot of new stadiums, particularly in the US are in industrial areas for obvious reasons.
On the other hand you don’t get any of those grounds where someone’s watching the cricket on an apartment balcony or where there’s a march to the stadium and all the houses have their flags and colors out!
I was at Western Springs v Coastal yesterday and the matchday programme mentions intended architecturally led upgrades to the Springs pavilion/clubhouse. Strange if they intend shifting facilities.
Edit: maybe the Mowbrays are putting some of their $ into the Springs pavilion as is plus offering more playing fields at the AuckFC proposed site.
??? Where did the article say WSAFC was going to shift facilities? It just said that the outer playing fields would be available to them (and to Grafton cricket in the summer). WSAFC have great facilities and a FIFA quality grass pitch, while the turf enables their huge all-weather kids programmes.
As to the speedway, I live around there and I find it annoying and I wish they were go, but I don't have any power to make them go, nor should I.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
I think you guys are off on the wrong track re: Eden Park, btw.
The fast track list is not a list of things that will actually happen. It's a list of projects which are authorised to get fast-tracked consent.
Something also on that list is the Avondale-Southdown railway line. That is never going to happen in a million years.
The question of Eden Park 2.0 vs Quay Park is up to the Auckland Council committee, which (in May) gave both projects 6 months to make final proposals.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
Something i have often wondered about given what we get continually told about climate change and sea levels is a waterfront option really a responsible move for the future.
Thing is that, if sea levels do rise in such a catastrophic manner, Auckland will have bigger things to worry about than the stadium above the train tracks. Like, the train tracks themselves. Or pretty much Auckland's whole modern hub, around Commercial Bay and the Viaduct.
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
Something i have often wondered about given what we get continually told about climate change and sea levels is a waterfront option really a responsible move for the future.
Thing is that, if sea levels do rise in such a catastrophic manner, Auckland will have bigger things to worry about than the stadium above the train tracks. Like, the train tracks themselves. Or pretty much Auckland's whole modern hub, around Commercial Bay and the Viaduct.
Yep glad i wont be around if things get that bad Wellington will be a nightmare to negotiate.
Something i have often wondered about given what we get continually told about climate change and sea levels is a waterfront option really a responsible move for the future.
Thing is that, if sea levels do rise in such a catastrophic manner, Auckland will have bigger things to worry about than the stadium above the train tracks. Like, the train tracks themselves. Or pretty much Auckland's whole modern hub, around Commercial Bay and the Viaduct.
Yep glad i wont be around if things get that bad Wellington will be a nightmare to negotiate.
Courtney place/Lambton quay business'/offices would have beach front appeal!!!
Something i have often wondered about given what we get continually told about climate change and sea levels is a waterfront option really a responsible move for the future.
Thing is that, if sea levels do rise in such a catastrophic manner, Auckland will have bigger things to worry about than the stadium above the train tracks. Like, the train tracks themselves. Or pretty much Auckland's whole modern hub, around Commercial Bay and the Viaduct.
Yep glad i wont be around if things get that bad Wellington will be a nightmare to negotiate.
Courtney place/Lambton quay business'/offices would have beach front appeal!!!
Back to where it was before 1855, when Lambton Quay really was the quay
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009 This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
Something i have often wondered about given what we get continually told about climate change and sea levels is a waterfront option really a responsible move for the future.
Thing is that, if sea levels do rise in such a catastrophic manner, Auckland will have bigger things to worry about than the stadium above the train tracks. Like, the train tracks themselves. Or pretty much Auckland's whole modern hub, around Commercial Bay and the Viaduct.
Yep glad i wont be around if things get that bad Wellington will be a nightmare to negotiate.
Don't worry National's gonna fast track it so you won't miss out lol
Still have no idea why they choose to live by a speedway if they hate it so much.
Same goes for the Eden Park lot.
This falls apart given a brief look at history.
EP has only had night games for 30 years.
It's only had concerts for 3, which it now wants to double.
The argument that you don't have a say because you chose to move next to it, doesn't really work out when the nature of 'it' is constantly changing.
The argument that a national stadium in a growing city should operate how it did 30 years ago is also nonsense.
I agree these residents shouldn't have to deal with people pissing in their front yards - that should be dealt with. But noise and traffic management? Suck it up. It's like living on the viaduct and complaining about the night clubs.
Remember reading somewhere that as a rough rule of thumb, these large stadiums to at least break even need minimum 35-40 events hosted each year.
By break even that means just covering operating costs, plus an annual allowance for capital works (Capex) and repairs & maintenance. That is they are debt free, with no large interest payments due.
So 35-40 events otherwise you are operating at a loss and running to Govt (state or Council) for help. And that's Eden Park's problem, it's limited with the max 6 concerts thing, stuck in a residential area with fudge all opportunities to get more events or tenants.
Based on the Western Springs rumours, Auckland FC don't want to play at EP. The Warriors don't, and even the Blues seem to only sign short 1-2 years leases in Mt Eden, as they review their options. Blues have thought about a move to Penrose, and I'm sure will chat to Auckland FC about Western Springs. Their seasons will overlap for a few months, but not an impossible problem to fix.
Read that BC Place - downtown semi industrial Vancouver site, with club mode, a roof plus conference facilities - hosts over 200 events per year. From garden shows to the Whitecaps to music concerts. An Auckland waterfront edifice could genuinely aim to do the same.
If there is a way to build Quay Park stadium with minimal state or local Govt money ie mostly privately funded, just do it. Do it!
This stadium talk at Western Springs is just that, talk. Being used to put pressure on something else much like the alternative Nix stadium in Porirua back in the day.
Sadly NZ Inc can't organise a piss up in a brewery right now, our government and councils are a mess and the nation has bigger fish to fry (sunken ships, dilapidated railways, massive DoH deficits etc) then worrying about a stadium that should have been built prior to RWC 2011 when times were good.
Supporter of the world's best football teams: Waikato..., Kingz FC, NZ Knights, The Nix, The Argyle & of course the All Whites
Still have no idea why they choose to live by a speedway if they hate it so much.
Same goes for the Eden Park lot.
This falls apart given a brief look at history.
EP has only had night games for 30 years.
It's only had concerts for 3, which it now wants to double.
The argument that you don't have a say because you chose to move next to it, doesn't really work out when the nature of 'it' is constantly changing.
The argument that a national stadium in a growing city should operate how it did 30 years ago is also nonsense.
I agree these residents shouldn't have to deal with people pissing in their front yards - that should be dealt with. But noise and traffic management? Suck it up. It's like living on the viaduct and complaining about the night clubs.
That’s the f- annoying thing. That’s exactly what has happened to midsize music venues in central Auckland. They’ve been pushed out. Bloody crickets of complaints there. Almost like the people complaining don’t care at all about the music industry or NZ music in general.
But in one of the oldest residential suburbs in the country with I’d guess around 100k in walking distance where the residents have worked closely with the stadium for decades we get every one weighing in with their two pence about how they should give up their property rights.
When all the rich suburbs get to exclude even the most minimal of density, nothing. Jaysus- check this level of entitlement out in Grey Lynn - there’s nothing remotely like this around Eden Park. Yet there is all over the city, and those suburbs are the ones putting their thumbs on the scales of the housing market. The Eden Park residents are by and large fine with most of it.
There’s two issues- one is the actual inconvenience and infringements on property rights.
The second is the amount of dickheads who are happy to have a go at a whole suburb based on nothing other than Helen Clark lives there and they wet themselves in glee at the thought of getting one over her. It’s mostly culture war nonsense. And a stadium desperately trying to make money and not always being honest with the public doesn’t mind playing up to it on occasion.
It’s not at all like the viaduct- that’s the entire point of a waterfront stadium suggestion, so that two land use purposes that don’t really coexist properly don’t have to. The viaduct is an entertainment precinct with hotels, places for Mark wotsit to go shopping and one or two high end apartments. Kingsland and Mt Eden were suburbs long before Eden Park needed a lot of night time entertainment to survive.
This stadium talk at Western Springs is just that, talk. Being used to put pressure on something else much like the alternative Nix stadium in Porirua back in the day.
Sadly NZ Inc can't organise a piss up in a brewery right now, our government and councils are a mess and the nation has bigger fish to fry (sunken ships, dilapidated railways, massive DoH deficits etc) then worrying about a stadium that should have been built prior to RWC 2011 when times were good.
Fortunately half is American! The main issue for anything is cash. Here there are two billionaires ready to go who want to make it happen. That’s what usually causes things to get done! Cash and determination. Plus it seems no one else really wants it from the big codes.
A smaller stadium shouldn’t have nearly the issues a mammoth one does🤞.
The other reason I hope it happens is it seems like a brilliant idea. I think I’ve been on here talking about how awesome the family game day experience is with the stadium nestled in an excellent enormous park here. The 18k size is about perfect to sell out most of the time. You can have a few bouncy castles and food trucks outside. I even played some simulated blind soccer and donated for that one time here. I like the positioning and I think it could really change the attitude to sport from the blokes only terraces at Eden Park in the wayaback days to quite a different experience.
Big family day and a footy game! That’s a way to win great word of mouth for your club in what is already a very popular participation sport at junior level.
This stadium talk at Western Springs is just that, talk. Being used to put pressure on something else much like the alternative Nix stadium in Porirua back in the day.
Sadly NZ Inc can't organise a piss up in a brewery right now, our government and councils are a mess and the nation has bigger fish to fry (sunken ships, dilapidated railways, massive DoH deficits etc) then worrying about a stadium that should have been built prior to RWC 2011 when times were good.
No Mr Foley is a very wealthy. Estimated net worth actually $USD2 Billion goggle tells me.
He won't like the current arrangement, his NZ club stuck out at Albany with likely tired facilities (I mean all the stories are NHS has been purposedly rundown by Council facilities division), and is miles away from where the club will play in Penrose.
Look what Bill is building at Bournemouth re their state of the art training facilities. He won't fudge around in Auckland. He's a doer. He wants to be in control of where his team train & play, not beholden to some other outfit owning the stadium, and his club the 2nd class tenant. Though he may find the whole consent process frustrating, can see things being built at Western Springs quickly if the Texan has his way.
Probably doesn't realise he has to make consideration for ducks, frogs, snails... tho he won't need to worry about the hippo that broke free of the zoo back in the day and floated close to Pt Chev shops b4 capture.
Build them & they will come. You just construct a heap of bars actually inside the stadium, or maybe a few like LilyWorld at Mt Smart, just outside the ground - that I presume are only opened on match days.
As MartinB touched on a match day precinct of bars and lots of kids pre game entertainiment stuff on surrounding fields. Foley likes to invest in hospo. https://lilyworld.co.nz/
Obviously the gentrification of the suburb from Marto, has meant he and many others have not prevailed himself of the crown, harlequins, nomad, and two other bars, I can’t remember the name of in point chevalier.
10 minute walk from springs.
A bunch of restaurants as well on Point Chev, Thai, Indian, Chinese, Greek and others,
KFC and Maccas and Burger Fuel if you want to go classy.
Imagine prematch is either West Lynn or Grey Lynn. Or Pt Chev and healthy a wee walk…
Or also- if we take the Japanese solution- over here a bunch of the food trucks also sell beer/hiball or there is also a craft brewery sponsor with a tap beer truck. Plus you are allowed to byo and drink in the park too here!
Hasn’t something happened to Harlequins? Or…it’s the RSA, right? That’s gone yeh? And the Liqourland?
And lol at the idea of Harlequins or the Crown being gentrified. The Crown always seemed to do a cracking trade in day drinkers who’d got their pensions!
harlequins still there. RSA gone for a coming new world, but as part of the deal they get a new RSA in the building
I reckon the downhill walk from Grey Lynn might be the way to go. But not the Bullock track steep.
Plus if the Port can survive the Grey Lynn Tarvern then they have nothing to fear! Also -The Stables- have a pub? Again vague recollections. That’s a little further away again, but seems like a place that might do a decent pint.
The Surrey is the one I’m thinking of…Malt in West Lynn a decent Monteiths pub with an outdoor area too. Lol or Frida’s. Or the Gypsy Tearooms! Now that’s really going back into drinks past…
Why are we on here thinking of potential pubs the Port might use if they get this stadium built?
Tbh you don’t have to wait for the stadium to be built to go to Motat, have a walk around Western Springs and end up at a local pub for dinner!
harlequins still there. RSA gone for a coming new world, but as part of the deal they get a new RSA in the building
Many liquor shops still there
The other two bars are Cupid and Wapiti
Harlequins the victim of violent armed robbery late last year, also the Mt Albert Sports bar not so far away. Part of a coming new world. Shame about the RSA going under, was one of the last of this city's regular jazz venues.
harlequins still there. RSA gone for a coming new world, but as part of the deal they get a new RSA in the building
Many liquor shops still there
The other two bars are Cupid and Wapiti
Harlequins the victim of violent armed robbery late last year, also the Mt Albert Sports bar not so far away. Part of a coming new world. Shame about the RSA going under, was one of the last of this city's regular jazz venues.
I’ve bet on horses 4 times in my life with 3 wins. Twice was at the Mt Albert Sports Bar. Actually the losing bet might have been as well.
Still have no idea why they choose to live by a speedway if they hate it so much.
Same goes for the Eden Park lot.
This falls apart given a brief look at history.
EP has only had night games for 30 years.
It's only had concerts for 3, which it now wants to double.
The argument that you don't have a say because you chose to move next to it, doesn't really work out when the nature of 'it' is constantly changing.
The argument that a national stadium in a growing city should operate how it did 30 years ago is also nonsense.
I agree these residents shouldn't have to deal with people pissing in their front yards - that should be dealt with. But noise and traffic management? Suck it up. It's like living on the viaduct and complaining about the night clubs.
"National Stadium?" Says who!?
It is through a complete lack of commonsense that EP is even still around hosting professional sport.
Still have no idea why they choose to live by a speedway if they hate it so much.
Same goes for the Eden Park lot.
This falls apart given a brief look at history.
EP has only had night games for 30 years.
It's only had concerts for 3, which it now wants to double.
The argument that you don't have a say because you chose to move next to it, doesn't really work out when the nature of 'it' is constantly changing.
The argument that a national stadium in a growing city should operate how it did 30 years ago is also nonsense.
I agree these residents shouldn't have to deal with people pissing in their front yards - that should be dealt with. But noise and traffic management? Suck it up. It's like living on the viaduct and complaining about the night clubs.
"National Stadium?" Says who!?
It is through a complete lack of commonsense that EP is even still around hosting professional sport.
