AFC President message to FFA: no NZ teams by 2011

While moving to Asia would cost a heap more I do actually think we'd make a reasonable amount of money back.  Remember the Malaysia games in Christchurch and Auckland?  Only friendlies and against a very poor opposition and in Christchurch the crowd was 10 100 and in Auckland it was 8 300 (or so).

So I have to say, Asian opposition would generate far, far more publicity that Oceanic opposition.

Also, you know how Australia agreed to help fooball in Oceania after they left to Asia?  In my opinion they should not count NZers or any other Oceanic player as an import (for any A-league club).  Obviously for the ACL the clubs would have to adhere to the rules, but in the A-League itself I think that would be good.

Whitby boy2008-12-18 14:38:40

Been away for a few days so just skimmed over the pages. I honestly don't think it matters hugely if we only have 5 NZers (or 3 competing in the ACL) if we are playing good, attractive football with overseas players I wouldn't mind and maybe even a few of the players would have Aussie passports. Exactly the same with the Breakers and Warriors.

We can be the Knights then.

So you think they were playing good, attractive football?

They had their moments,  At times they would domnate possession and just fall apart when it came to the final ball and actually scoring... so, nothing like the Phoenix.

That is the thing - it ISN'T exactly the same as the Breakers and the Warriors. They have a choice. The Warriors also have a youth team full of NZers.

They have a choice.QUOTE] But the point in this entire thread is that it looks like that choice is going to get taken away.

That's a very good point, it's been mentioned that Aussie have leaped ahead in terms of the standard of their games and attendances, this is all fairly recent and I think a lot of it can be credited to the A-League coming along at a similar time to the Aussies qualifying for the world cup. The tournament got people interested and the league has carried that momentum.

I think three things happening around the same time boosted football across the ditch, the A-League, qualifying for the 2006 World Cup and joining Asia. Hard to separate the effects of each of the three.

Offtopic but do many know that Canberra is the capital of Australia or do they believe that Sydney or Melbourne is?

Whitby boy2008-12-18 16:16:53

Not that hard at all...

The key was the World Cup - as that created massive coverage, nationwide and even penetrated the non-football demographic as well as other sports fans (ie: particularly AFL/NRL) as it was a National team - which two of the four 'footy' codes can't offer and it was a proper 'World' Cup, which none of the other codes can offer (nowhere near to that degree).

The A-League came along at the right time, with the right backing, and the right marketing campaign that was attractive to 'sports' fans, and diluted the influence of some of the more 'traditional' factions that were historically apparent in the NSL and were destructive in terms of growing the game and growing/building a fan base.

Joining Asia was important, but more so at a strategic level, rather than that of the average fan... Most Aussie's wouldn't know which confederation they belong to, and nor do they give a stuff... what does matter is the positive response to some on-field success, at both international and national level. In short - football had become kinda 'cool' - certainly in Brisbane anyway... and anytime the Socceroos came to town, it was the place to be - the opposition, though important to die hards, to 50+% of the crowd was neither important, nor relevant... they wanted to see what the fuss was about and be in on the action...

But then, what would I know

I agree Qld, what matters is what happens on the pitch. For NZ'ers who once finish school don't really care about football as they are sucked into the Rugby and Cricket votex and for the Australian football public who, despite a weak facade, look for reasons not to have a NZ team within their competition.

It's strange, despite the many seasons under the Kingz, Knights and Nix I still feel like this league is theirs and we are only their for either their own amusement, by invitation or to bump up the numbers until they find some more teams of their own. Unfortunately (and I KNOW that the FFA are trying all they can to keep us in) this sort of news doesn't help in dispelling these feelings for me.

If we play well, we deserve our place - but the ugly side of this is that we have to make money for the league; for both us and them. I have no idea how our books are but seeing only 6000 people in a 35,000 seat stadium doesn't help. I love the ROF but when you watch home games replayed on the tele it does look a little barron. That's just my opinion anyway. Rugby gets similar crowd numbers I know but we have a lot more to prove than they do.

After schooling, most New Zealand Sportsman pursues or continues Rugby and Cricket because it is a professional sport that has a career pathway in both administration and on the field and does not rely solely on volunteers.

Honestly, the cost to set up "one confederation, one league" will be roughly same cost as joining AFC. Plus the benefits of the FIFA funding of representing OFC in FIFA age groups tournaments. O-league may need to go professional, only if the two NZFC club attending allows equal revenue sharing with the other NZFC clubs to allow closer competition structure. (Revenue sharing >>>> salary capping for even competition according to latest research)

It is going to be interesting if we end up at the 2010 World Cup finals with a solid outing. Would everything change for us as it did with Australia? More people would then have to take notice. If the outcome is gaining a OFC full spot, then the game will really take off. However, the odds are still stack against us of that happening.

Say if we do get to the world cup finals, how do we keep this momentum ? AFC seems a logical move, but can we maintain this? I think that as a 4 million people nation, unless we rise up from the credit crunch and fly into the top 1/4th of the OECD ranks in Research and development per captia, economic investment and quality of life, we have no show in achieving this. The picture is a lot more ugly than we think.

In the meanwhile, I prefer to develop our NZFC and focus on what we have in the OFC and how to improve that first, because our football infrastructure is still not healthy enough to handle the rigours of AFC.

If OFC can warm to "one confederation, one league" using the Rugby Super 14 as a shadow template, I wouldn't say no as there are may not be any other choices available after 2011.

On a side note: I would like to see the AFC-OFC Challenge Cup and the Trans Tasman Cup which we haven't won since 1983 brought back on a regular based, so we could monitor how we are doing.

Atm, we just don't have much to move anywhere. NZF should work more with OFC in creating a solution that may or may not include the Nix. Because they certainly can't work with AFC, they can't be seen to work directly with the Nix as the Nix is taking another avenue. And FIFA is the other avenue of support who may propose other ideas for OFC and NZF.

Either way, we basically restricted to Phantom zone, so we might as well make it into a better home and to pull our feet up on in it.

edit: language correction stuff.AllWhitebelievr2008-12-19 00:31:41

For the one confederation, one league the cost wouldn't be too bad for us but it would be terrible for the Islands-based teams. If NZF wants to advance, professionalising the NZFC is the main way and getting better coverage of it. Making a 6 team competition by...

-Merging Waitakere and Auckland.
-Keeping Waitako
-Merging Manuwatu and Hawkes Bay.
-Keeping Wellington
-Keeping Canterbury
-Keeping Otago

Crowd numbers would need to improve vastly and if instead there was this one confederation, one league, NZ could probably have 4-5 teams. (Similar to Super 14)

Why would you merge the two best teams with the biggest population?  Auckland needs another team, not less teams

Crowd numbers maybe???

Rugby gets much better crowd numbers than 6000.

Yeah especially with the Lions playing well. Last season the Nix needed 10,000 people a game to break-even though I expect this figure to have dropped due to the Sony sponsorship for the entire of this season.

I'm not sure but looking at some of the european rugby club stadiums like that one that Dan Carter was playing in recently, the crowd numbers wasn't that high but yet it look very good for that competition. (although I may be corrected by the stats)

I somewhat think that we are not properly developed in our soccer stadia to arrange it as such. On Tv, it looked as though the rugby seating was only about 5 to 6 rows back but the crowd was seated on a decent slope and surround the whole ground. Also the noise was amped by the surrounding structures. The atmosphere was great. If only we can reproduce that with expansion structures on the better games. AllWhitebelievr2008-12-19 00:50:46

Im actually interested in your "one confederation, one league" theory despite saying how bad it could turn out. Can you give me a basic outline of how many teams, games there would be in your opinion?

how indimidating would it be to have the Newtown park capacity rasied to 15,000 and the lion, tiger and monkey enclosures be moved so they occupy part of the stands wchich would surround the whole ground and be  a couple of metres from the pitch...

I've seen AWB go on about this professional league for Oceania for a while now in a couple of threads. Do you seriously think that a professional league could survive in Oceania? Because to my mind you are utterly deluded. Look at it this way, Rugby by far the biggest sport in this country with the best ability to pull in the commercial dollar can't run a successful/viable professional domestic competition. This isn't just because of the economic climate at the moment its to do with the fact there isn't the money.

Yes but the islands would get big crowds as it would be there only professional sports team (I think).

And where would they get the money from to fund these professional teams?

Well thats something AWB needs to explain I think he believe sponsorship but I don't think we could get the money required especially in these economic times. Although FIFA could help us with a loan and other aid money. I also wonder how much money the OFC gets a year and how much it has in the bank.

There's simply not enough money/interest to make a league like that get going, let alone sustain it for any prolonged period.

If FIFA is serious about Oceania being a Federation, and developing/growing the game within same, shouldn't they stump up the cash?

A pro league or top semi-pro league will not take off in Oceania or in NZ. There is no way it would be sustainable to such a level that it would serve to improve the overall football talent in this country or to provide a viable showcase for players to attain a higher level.

 

Even the NFC struggles to survive with teams crying poverty and almost falling over this season. Waitak and Auckland are only in the positions they are in because of World Club Cup money.

 

Our national game (rugby) is finding it hard to make its national competition viable, how many of those teams are operating at losses?

 

Sponsors and/or Oceania will not put money into such a venture simply because neither has a bottomless pit of money and, in any event, need some real positive outcomes to justify such investment.

 

I hate to play devil�s advocate here, but who would really be affected if the Nix ceased to exist for us in Wellington? Less than 10,000 spectators who turn up to games and maybe another 10,000 like me who support from afar and make the occasional game. While it is better that we do have them, our kids will still want to play for the Man Us and Liverpools of the world, young players will still try their hand at playing overseas (like they did before the A League) and men�s� football will continue to struggle.

 

Please don�t think I don�t support the Nix and having them compete in the A League and based in Wellington, I just think we need to look at the reality rather than looking at it all through rose tinted glasses. Make no mistake, if it suits Australia they will get rid of us in a second. They will always do what is best for Australia, it is their national psyche. We might just have to accept that we won�t have a team in the A League, that we won�t be in Asia, our All Whites will always find it hard to qualify for the World Cup (as they should if ranked at around 80) etc. But work on the positives � our age group and women�s teams qualifying (usually) for World Cups, spend some decent money on developing our young players and having them play in the US on scholarships, trialling and playing with clubs all over the world and bringing them back for World Cup qualifying. Not as pretty as having a fully professional team playing in the A League, but possibly just as effective in getting some decent players being developed and playing at international level for us.

Napier Phoenix2008-12-19 14:20:21

Sustainable financial factors for One Confederation, One league

1.) Broadcasters.

BROADCASTERS TAKING THE LIVE FEED for the Oceania All Stars vs. LA Galaxy game.

American Samoa - Pacific Channel Samoa
American Samoa - Pacific Island Cable
Cook Islands - Cook Islands Television
Fiji - Fiji TV
Kiribati - Television Kiribati Ltd
New Zealand - Prime Television/Sky Television
Niue - Broadcasting Corporation of Niue
Papua New Guinea - EMTV (Media New Guinea Limited)
Solomon Islands - One News Ltd/Solomon Telekom Co. Ltd
Tonga - Tonga Broadcasting Commission
Tonga - TONFON Entertainment Ltd
Vanuatu - Vanuatu Broadcasting & TV Corp
Samoa - Samoa Broadcasting Corporation
Sky Pacific.

It was an historical moment because it is a first time that they broadcasted live. Even the Karembeu Jubilee match in Noumea was distributed delayed. That broadcast reach a potential audience of just over 6 million people which is half of Oceania's 11 million population.

Prior to the game, the technology to bring the match live to New Caledonia was not in place. However, Fiji TV and RFO were in dialogue about solving this problem as a result of this oceania event - that is a strong indication of the power and attraction of football in the oceania region.

. . . The TV technology is there. The cost to make suitable TV camera positions is not costly. Just look at the number of TV camera stands at trackside racing. Only a couple of thousand $$ to set up at each venue.

2.) Tourism is large slice of Oceania and a gateway of commerce. If there is outside interest, it would make great commercial packages. Agriculture and Fishing industry in the islands have exporting factors to Japan, China, the United States and South Korea.

. . . . All are potential commercial sponsors.

3.)Pacific Islands Forum (PIF) holds private and informal discussion of a wide range of issues of common concerns, concentrating on matters directly affecting the daily lives of the people of the islands of the South Pacific, devoting particular attention to trade, shipping, tourism, and education.

Professional sports factor to the lively hood of the people would have to be discussed there. If it is seen as a positive spin, then many inputs would happen in one organised manner between the islands because of the forum.

4.) The push for a common currency in the South Pacific is around the corner. Currently USD AUD, NZD and CFP Franc are used among the islands. A common currency will see an easier business transactions between the Islands and a far better use of commercial entities such as professional sports.

5.) Pacific Island Countries Trade Agreement (PICTA), the removal of trade barriers among the islands are in full swing over the two years of it's existence. Of the 14 PICTA countries, 6 of them have already have domestic arrangements in place by March 2008 that enable them to trade. They include our main soccer rivals. Professional football would be classified as a trade. Although goods are covered only in the agreement, trade in services and the temporary movement of natural persons have also been discussed in talks since April 2008. Also they are negotiating an Economic Partnership Agreement (EPA) with the European Union.

Several sports associations would have to be consulted in the formulation of the PICTA's future sports policy. All PICTA members and their respective national sport associations participating in OFC tournaments would have sufficient sport knowledge already. So an agreement to start a professional league can be founded very quickly.

. . . there is a pathway to make things happen with most PICTA countries that would benefit all.

6.) It would actually be a super-sized league compared to the O-league with the best players getting better exposure to more competitive games at a higher level. Two super clubs from most of the capable OFC islands plus four super clubs from NZ will be at high level of competition.

7.) Also having revenue sharing between the clubs rather than salary capping would increase competitiveness and double to keep rich and poor clubs within competitive reach. The competition would then be set as a whole package so not one club would be at a disadvantage financially because of their country or their economic state. This is an very essential key point to ensure that it will work among the different OFC countries. So the revenue gain of all matches would be evenly distributed among all the clubs. So it matters to everyone how the $$$$ goes at any quarter of the league, because it's their bread for the season. This will show thick or how thin the slice will evenly be.

Such a competition is sustainable with those factors in place. IMHO. They influence the "ratio to loan" quite substantiality.


*Ducks to avoid flying shoes* AllWhitebelievr2008-12-20 03:59:11

Me suspects this is an example of those rose tinted glasses I spoke about. All very impressively put on paper AWB but none of it convinces me of viability.

How many viewers do the phoenix get on average through sky? Would be interested to know.

I respect AWB because you seem most of the time to know what you are talking about but here you are straight up and down deluded. 6 millions viewers in the pacific you say? How many people in the islands have electricity/tv/cable tv? The market would be New Zealand (which couldn't support it) and a small few in the islands.

my suggestion, send an official invite to this fellow to a nix match by the yellow fever and show him the great atmosphere within the club/supporters, we are just as professional as ANY of the aus clubs and even draw bigger crowds than half of them. plus those who attend (who actually live in welly) are one of the more vocal.

Well I sort of meant that by keeping Wellington it would be keeping the Phoenix and dissolving Team Wellington.

Does this include the international audience?