AFC President message to FFA: no NZ teams by 2011

French competition.  Oceania Nations.

Is football the only profession in Australia that has a restriction on the number of New Zealanders a company can employ? Politicians would be one.
I'd like someone with a legal mind to explain why this is allowed.

Yeah but it's not the national French league that these are playing in. It seems to be the national league aspect that requires FIFA approval, rather than a cup competition.

Cruz Azul and America in Copa Libertadores.

The Knights were never impacted as there were no rules in the first two years of the A-League as to the number of imports you had of any nation.  That is why Perth had 3 kiwi players in V2 and the Knights funded the relocation of half the lower leagues of English football.

I imagine any decision can be reviewed but at the time of the Phoenix establishment there was no timeframe set on it, at least to my understanding.

I see. I guess the A-League changed for the ACL - which is interesting as the parallel would be to England and the ECL. If I recall correctly (meaning I will have to check) the ECL restricts non-EUs, but the Prem League has never felt the need to adopt ECL rules domestically. I guess the difference is that the ECL uses EU and the ACL uses nationality of club country - is that correct? Or does the ACL use a non-Asian restriction?

I would suggest the viability of the Phoenix is severly undermined if they are not allowed different selection rules.  A significant part of the reason why the Knights failed to engage local football fans was the lack of New Zealand players in the side (it was 4 from memory).

The form lost them the fairweather fans but the NZ football fans were gone with a side filled with Australians on holidays and Englishmen.

I think this will become an issue only if NZ starts producing qualiy players at a much faster rate than we are now.
At the moment, there's not enough quality in the NZ pool of players for Australian clubs to cry foul over the rules as they are right now.

My view of it anyway.

Yeah but they aren't trying to qualify for the Euro Champions League we are trying to qualify for the ACL so it is completly different.

Well that statement hasn't change much other than what we understood. The FFA has special conditions for us to play in the A-league with FIFA approval and it allows us to play as much New Zealanders as we can in the A-league and as long as the FFA is happy for us to be there, FIFA is happy. AFC cannot change that if FFA has us after 2012. But AFC can stop us playing in the ACL because that is their competition.

But if AFC ties a condition to FFA to drop the Nix to open up spots on the ACL for the other A-league, then may be frown upon if other AFC countries had more spots but not able to fulfill the AFC criteria that the FFA is more than shown that they have fulfilled. It could be seen as working in conflict with the FIFA executive committee and a possible appeal could be made to open the spots for them on based of sporting discrimination on association because of a discrimination of a club from a non-professional association that was approved by FIFA. An association should by no means be discriminated based on one club who has "special needs". It does not happen to anyone else and should not happen based on a club from a different confederation which has no nearby professional set up within.

What I found about the whole thing is the acts of discrimination by AFC boss is really annoying me. He shouldn't have a problem with how the FFA runs their own league. The only thing that the AFC can do is to prevent the Nix in the ACL competition if they not from AFC. By changing the Nix into an AFC side, then the Nix are no longer a New Zealand or Oceania team.

The only problem that still occurs is the participation of New Zealand players in ACL as import players.

I think that if anything, FIFA should make special provisions for players from a country that has no professional league to be declared as a free import so they can be apply their professional trade as a "non-import" player and should enjoy privileges of a local professional player within an association and within the confederation If they do something like that as a global policy, then it should open up competition on player quality and ensure the competitive well being of disadvantaged countries therefore ensuring a lift in the overall standard of the football among the different nations. This would easily fit into FIFA's commitment to improve the weaker nations to be competitive in the global game.

So, if there is anyone who has connections to any FIFA countries at a disadvantage should encourage this line of policy. . . . Anyone?AllWhitebelievr2008-12-23 01:18:36

I think as fans of a club in this position we would all treat Blatter like he's Obama if he suggested that sort of thing and got the rule put through. It would be fantastic for the development of small nations in Oceania (wouldn't it be great to see Krishna, Sorroman et al in the A-League as non-imports?), Asia, and America, but there could be some exploitation and situations like in leagues without import rules where foreigners get in the way of locals playing (say Perth got really keen on Oceanian players). Also, what is considered 'professional' would be a tough issue; its not much, but some NZFC players do get paid, does that make them professional?

Another club playing in another country to add to the list: Bermuda Hogges, playing in USL2.

1, The winner of the French cup plays in the UEFA Cup.

2, We're talking about our place in the A-League being at risk.  The ACL is the least of our problems.

Im not sure but I would bet that a condition of there entry is that if they win they can't enter the UEFA cup and also France would want to advance the skill of their colonies in Oceania, why would Asia want to advance our skill? As many others have also said its not a league so they are not playing a consistent amount of football like we are so they have nothing really to gain from it.

link to blatter interview here
comments on the phoenix 6:30 onwards.

axxaa2008-12-23 11:57:18

If what Blatter said stands (and he's the president of FIFA so why wouldn't it?) then we're safe in the A-League.  The only thing that Hammam can do now is try to pressure the FFA into siding with him, and that doesn't seem likely.

In terms of the ACL, I don't think we will be able to qualify since that would be governed by the Asian Federation (and Hammam has it in for us).  I would love to be in that competition but if its not possible we should at least be able to play in the club world cup, should we qualify.
Nickel2008-12-23 14:21:15

And how would we qualify if we can't play in the ACL?

Probably through the O-League if ACL is ruled out. Again we should be able to play in the ACL provided we only use 3 imports (ACL import rule). Also Nickel remember Australia are trying to get a world cup and will need Asias support.

I think that the exemption for the Phoenix to sign as many New Zealanders as they want has to stay.

One reason is that I don't think it offers us any real advantage when it comes to competitiveness - we just don't have the playing stocks. And don't forget the salary cap also provides some checks and balances. Even if there were a load of top quality Kiwi footballers lining up to sign the salary cap would prevent us ever having a squad far and away better than the Aussie teams.

But the major factor the exemption should stay is the commercial value that it has - a New Zealand team with a healthy number of Kiwis in it has much more appeal locally. Like I've said before having a team full of Australians with only a few NZ "import" players would be like putting lipstick on a pig. I'm sure the A-League sponsors and the Phoenix themselves would be concerned about their ability to sell this option to the NZ public.

It was clear when the Knights folded how desperate the FFA were to keep a NZ team in the A-League and this was largely driven by TV and other commercial concerns. The key to this is that the team must have commercial appeal in NZ, otherwise you're still not giving your sponsors what they want. So once again for good measure: A team full of Aussies = Pig. Three NZ imports = Lipstick.

Blatter's supportive statements are great but the issue that's unresolved is still the ACL situation and that's where the chickens really come home to roost with the Kiwi player exemption. Even if the Nix remain in the A-League the AFC are quite entitled to say who can and can't play in the ACL because they run it. They are also entitled to set the eligibility criteria. So even if they bend the rules and let the Nix into the ACL they could still say the Kiwi players in the squad are imports which would cause big problems.

For now I would happily take the Nix having a secure future in the A-League and sorting the ACL question out some other time.

Going on my holidays now.

Just listened carefully twice to Blatters interview. I think we are safe. He was very catagorical....." its not an issue for the Asian Confederation"  There is absolutely no reason for FIFA to want to ditch the Phoenix. They are all about spreading the game not knee capping it.

I believe that is correct.

If you listen more carefully though he said that it is an issue first for Australian Football and they must decide. If Australia football don't want the Nix then so be it according to Sepp.
Therefore if Asia pressure Aussie to make a decision then FIFA won't be involved. It seems FIFA would only be involved if Aussie want the Nix and Asia don't - so in that case a decision is made at the top. It was very much a "no comment" sort of comment.



Royal2008-12-23 22:37:37

Aussie want us though, and if Bin Eating Ham threatens the FFA with reduced ACL spots then he'd have a hard time winning the argument in the CAS.

Probably, but it's not really relevant. Hammam isn't threatening to reduce spots. He was talking about how the FFA could get an additional ACL spot.

He also said they needed to get a promotion/relegation system, we all know that will never happen.

Yeah, unless you want to have 2 leagues with 8 teams in them each....

Merry Christmas YF ... hope all this sorts itself out in the new year .. maybe you should send MBH off a big Christmas present and as sort of olive branch..

It can be done like what they do with J-league and J-league 2. Certain J2 clubs that prove they have infrastructure, financial backing and sporting presence on the field as well as adequate crowd numbers can be promoted into J1. Some of the J2 clubs are never going to be J1 clubs but are happy to just playing in J2 level of competition and so are not eligible to be promoted.

The FFA are going to announce plans for promotion/relegation after they getting their 12 clubs up and going. The chances are that there will be a second division with looser criteria than what they have in A-league but once any of the two division teams are sufficiently strong enough and fit the A-league standard, they can apply for promotion to A-league subject to their season results. The top division two team that fits the A-league criteria will win the promotion even if a non A-league applicant wins the second division.

It works in J1 and J2 very well enough and then the spread of professional teams gets to grow downwards. More clubs will get a chance to grow into a professional outfit if they then get a bite in second division by way of winning certain league competitions. this would also grow the professional sport steady and with control for the future.

Tbh, I can see a real possibility for the NZFC sides to play in the second division with the NZF having shared association with FFA and then the top NZ sides can play in the O-league, if the OFC, AFC, NZF, FIFA agree on a two country, one competition and two different Champion league pathway to CWC. It's not impossible if it saves resources and increase competitiveness in this part of the world. If it is good for football and benefits both countries, then it would be silly not to see how it would not work. They just have to change a number of rules to allow it to work without affecting other competitions around the world. In fact it would help other countries football competition to "merge" competition in some places. As long as they have certain criteria done that safeguards both countries and not create some overly type of closed "superclub league" that the top european club try to do without UEFA that would damage other local leagues the sucks the top local players reduce the domestic national league into grassroot disaster.

I went to a J-League game earlier this year - FC Tokyo vs Kawasaki(?), and the crowd was bloody massive, 30, 000! Apparently Kawasaki had just been promoted to J1 and I could see that they were a bit shaky, and FC Tokyo dominated..

So I can see what you are saying