Wellington Phoenix Men

AFC President message to FFA: no NZ teams by 2011

621 replies · 9,179 views
over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
newzealandpower wrote:

wellyphoenixfan wrote:
Clearly it has nothing to do with how well we play. They want us gone most probably because we are not part of their confederation. When broadcasting rights are renegotiated if a NZ team isn't in it the FFA have just lost 4.2 million viewers which will mean they lose tons of money. FFA won't do it too much to lose and really if they want a promotion/relegation league they are going to need New Zealand.
fair point but that also falls into what I said about all the cash they would lose by cutting us off the roaster. Not only will they lose the broadcasting rights but also the merchandise, the people flying across the ditch to watch the games and the money they make off the Nix.
Don't think they would of made too much money off the Phoenix but thats the same with almost every other club in the A-league. Broadcasting rights would be their main concern.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
caseym wrote:


Surely if some of the poor smaller footballing Asian nations can stay alive the OFC ones could too?
 
Im not sure about that. I think even the smaller asian countries are better off financially and footbally, than the ofc nations.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I would have expected to see a bit of leadership from FIFA to be honest...

Why is there one federation thats a relative basket case (an admittedly very small one at that) in relation to the others? Whether looking on the pitch, at population, finances, rankings, performances... blah,blah...

Seems a bit dodge in'it... ???

E + R + O

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:

el grapadura wrote:
Hard News wrote:

Also Eejhit, yes on the England -> Wales thing, but Tahitian clubs play in the French Cup.� That's an Oceania nation, in a UEFA competition.


French Cup is not a UEFA competetion.
It is a competition in a UEFA country, like the A-League is a competition in an AFC country.


Yes, but UEFA has no executive power to do anything about how that competition is run.

UEFA has the power to deny teams from its member countries entry into competitions it runs, but that's a different matter altoghether.

Just thought your original comment was somewhat misleading, that's all.

el grapadura2008-11-17 17:00:59
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SurgeQld wrote:
I would have expected to see a bit of leadership from FIFA to be honest...Why is there one federation thats a relative basket case (an admittedly very small one at that) in relation to the others? Whether looking on the pitch, at population, finances, rankings, performances... blah,blah...Seems a bit dodge in'it... ???


But Oceania votes count in FIFA elections...
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
tbh it was a typo.  I originaly had "a UEFA countries competition" and went back and edited something else and deleted the word countries by mistake.

Actually though it is exactly the same.  My understanding is that AFC are threatening Aus's spots for the ACL because of our presence, not telling them to remove the Phoenix from the competition.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tune into radio sport tony p is on in 2 mins
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yes, in essence continental confederations have no power to dictate to its member countries how to run their own competitions, but can make things more difficult for those same countries in continental competitions.
So, yeah, that's how I understand the situation too, and that's why I'd like to know what FFA is thinking.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
tbh it was a typo.  I originaly had "a UEFA countries competition" and went back and edited something else and deleted the word countries by mistake.

Actually though it is exactly the same.  My understanding is that AFC are threatening Aus's spots for the ACL because of our presence, not telling them to remove the Phoenix from the competition.


My understanding is that they are not going to give the A-League any more ACL spots until they increase the size of the league to incorporate promotion/relegation, and have only Australian teams.

I find it appalling that the head of AFC is so ignorant of the issues around football in Australia.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Bones wrote:
Hard News wrote:
tbh it was a typo.  I originaly had "a UEFA countries competition" and went back and edited something else and deleted the word countries by mistake.

Actually though it is exactly the same.  My understanding is that AFC are threatening Aus's spots for the ACL because of our presence, not telling them to remove the Phoenix from the competition.


My understanding is that they are not going to give the A-League any more ACL spots until they increase the size of the league to incorporate promotion/relegation, and have only Australian teams.

I find it appalling that the head of AFC is so ignorant of the issues around football in Australia.
 
don't think it is ignorance, but they just don't want to give any more places to Australia, because it is pissing the rest of the confederation off, so they put up objections that just aint gunna happen.
 
Promotion/relegation aint gunna happen. And that was mooted before this lastest thing.
 
 
 


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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Tony P was just on radio sport

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
jakass666 wrote:

Tony P was just on radio sport

 
No link to it yet on the Radio Sport site. Maybe someone could throw the Tony P interview into this thread when they spot it.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I would like to know how many other AFC nations have promotion/relegation systems. Amateur ones might, but professional ones? Approx. none?
 
The AFC criteria for Champions League entry is contradictory and nonsensical, so it is not surprising that he would come out with this.
 
My worry is that this guy might one day be FIFA president. He seems to have all the relevant credentials...highly political, illogical and prone to making outrageous statements.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Was this issue mentioned on Campbell live at all per chance?  Because I turned to channel 3 just as the show ended and he said he'd received a flurry of messages telling him to say 'football' and not 'soccer'.  Or was that the U-17WC he was talking about?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The way these FIFA guys work it's hard to tell what's really going on.

Bin Hammam could be putting this out there now so that he's got something to give up later when he wants something else: "OK you can have your extra ACL places and your NZ A-League team but does my good friend Sepp have your vote at FIFA Congress?"

Or he could really mean it. You've got to remember with these FIFA guys that all their power is based around national associations. They are sh*t scared of clubs getting any more power and, in particular, clubs being able to operate across national boundaries. That's why they are dead set against concepts like a European Super-League, with clubs from different countries playing in the same league. That's also why Sepp seems to be the only person in Europe who doesn't think his "6+5" proposal (which would force European teams to field at least 6 local players) isn't in total breach of existing EU labour laws. The Phoenix is just one more example of what a lot of people at FIFA see as a philosophical threat to their power base.

terminator_x2008-11-17 20:01:36

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
1. Tony P's comments on here last night don't gel with the apparent 'all morning on the phone to FFA' statements of today. Is this more serious than he was first making out?
 
2. FFA will drop us in a heartbeat if it means a better deal for Australia.
 
3. Why would Asia want NZ to join them or to amalgamate with Oceania? I don't buy any arguement about getting another world cup spot, they probably think they have that spot anyway with NZ unlikely to qualify. Don't expect that view of theirs to change unless NZ qualify by beating their 4th? 5th? best team.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ignores a stack of points NP.

1. I think we can assume the exposion of this yesterday sounds like it caught the FFA and the Phoenix on the hop.  I'd excuse people trying to run damage control on an event like this when the story hasn't unfolded.

2. The FFA have sold sponsors and TV coverage based on a market that is trans-tasman.  The impact on the sponsorship dollar would not be insignificant.  The FFA would be naive to only evaluate one of the implications of their actions.

3. a, The 5th spot is always more at risk home and away than a series of matches.
     b, Oceania also brings eleven votes, which at FIFA level is an amount not to be sneezed at when the confederations start voting by block... it's more than South America have.

Just as a starting point.


How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
giddyup wrote:
here's the interview here starts in at around 3mins 50 secs

http://www.radiosport.co.nz/ThisWeek/21715.wma


cheers, currently listening to the Hammam one http://player.sbs.com.au/twg#/twg_08/GlobalGame/GlobalGame/playlist/EXCLUSIVE-Bin-Hammam-Pt1/ 
 
Unbelievable that he can't see the positives of us being in the aleague and doesn't seem to be willing to work a compromise.
You know we belong together...

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
My impression is that he has no idea of the game in this corner of the worlds or the markets he is dealing with.

To throw that one out AND demand promotion and relegation shows an embarrassing lack of understanding of the market, demographics or pretty much anything to do with Australasian football.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Napier Phoenix wrote:
1. Tony P's comments on here last night don't gel with the apparent 'all morning on the phone to FFA' statements of today. Is this more serious than he was first making out?
 
2. FFA will drop us in a heartbeat if it means a better deal for Australia.
 
3. Why would Asia want NZ to join them or to amalgamate with Oceania? I don't buy any arguement about getting another world cup spot, they probably think they have that spot anyway with NZ unlikely to qualify. Don't expect that view of theirs to change unless NZ qualify by beating their 4th? 5th? best team.
 
Took the words right out of my mouth, NP. I can't help having a very bad feeling about this. Loss of revenue or some such argument wont matter a bit to FFA when there are several other well-heeled potential franchises clamouring to get into the A League over the next few years.
 
The hope that somehow NZ will be absorbed into the Asian zone, thereby solving the Phoenix's problem, is also utterly forlorn.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
My impression is that he has no idea of the game in this corner of the worlds or the markets he is dealing with.

To throw that one out AND demand promotion and relegation shows an embarrassing lack of understanding of the market, demographics or pretty much anything to do with Australasian football.
 
Quite. Ever since the notion of promotion/relegation was first mooted a while back I've been thinking that this guy doesn't know his arse from his elbow, and hasn't bothered to even try to understand the geographical, demographic and financial circumstances in an already sports-saturated Aus/NZ region. To me this is more frightening than the theory that he's playing some kind of political game.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The revenue they will lose is not in the number of franchises, it is in losing the NZ TV market.  SkyTV would provide a fair chunk of revenue for the league that would disapear if the Phoenix went up in flames.  Thats a 4mil TV market that won't be replaced by a Canberra, Tassie, 2nd Sydney, 2nd Melbourne and South Coast side.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Timed out, reposted, double post
aitkenmike2008-11-17 21:08:03
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
aitkenmike wrote:
The revenue they will lose is not in the number of franchises, it is in losing the NZ TV market.  SkyTV would provide a fair chunk of revenue for the league that would disapear if the Phoenix went up in flames.  Thats a 4mil TV market that won't be replaced by a Canberra, Tassie, 2nd Sydney, 2nd Melbourne and South Coast side.
 
Do we know what the Kiwi TV market has currently been sold for?
 
Do you think it would compare with a possible Singapore/Bangkok/Tokyo/Manila market?
 
I not only lived and worked in a pretty cut throat business in Aussie, but have also had experience with Australian sports administration and I'm pretty cynical about the ends Australians will go to to give themselves the best deal (look at the Rugby World Cup examples).
 
I'm not quite sure how this FIFA voting works (HN can perhaps clarify) but I'd be surprised if Oceania's individual members each have 1 vote at FIFA level, I thought Oceania would have just the 1 vote. In the event of Oceania joining Asia, where would the guarantee be that the current voting system (as alluded to by HN) would remain?
 
With the Tony P damage control theory (by HN), I can understand that and it does look like the comments by Osama bin Laden caught the FFA and nix on the hop.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I've seen people commenting on the article saying that Hammamm is the worlds biggest idiot and the worlds biggest tool, i would tend to agree so goood on them
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He is also an incredibly powerful man, so we need to be careful not to under or over rate his stupidity.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If the AW,s  beat the 5th place Asian team then Australia would be guilty of helping New Zealand football buy alowing them to play in the A-League. No Asian country in the world cup qualblabla would want any kiwis playing regular in a asian competition.
 
Get ride of the Nixs = Better chance of beating NZ in the play offs.
 
Thats what i see....why else would it really be of any concern>?
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
convict wrote:
If the AW,s  beat the 5th place Asian team then Australia would be guilty of helping New Zealand football buy alowing them to play in the A-League. No Asian country in the world cup qualblabla would want any kiwis playing regular in a asian competition.
 
Get ride of the Nixs = Better chance of beating NZ in the play offs.
 
Thats what i see....why else would it really be of any concern>?
 
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
does anyone get krap emailed to them by the FFA?
 
I got a newsletter....and it seems like they have their own concerns across the ditch.

I say tackle him in the face.

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
Hard News wrote:

Also Eejhit, yes on the England -> Wales thing, but Tahitian clubs play in the French Cup.  That's an Oceania nation, in a UEFA competition.


French Cup is not a UEFA competetion.


It is a competition in a UEFA country, like the A-League is a competition in an AFC country.



Yeah and Tahiti is a French territory were as NZ has nothing to do with Australia
I doubt the Phoenix would be kicked out of the A-League but god it would be bloody
funny if they were!!!
 
MenapisDojo2008-11-17 23:58:29
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I am not to sure when he gave the interview but what is more concern is that at the AU match was as reported in a previous thread the Australian PM & FIFA president ...... given the money the commonwealth is putting into football and only because of Asia ....... I guess he must have indicated this at the match ........ meaning he may be super clever and talk directly to the Australian PM who he knows is providing heaps of funding for football and who wants to connect with Asia.

Bear in mind Kevin 07 put off going to the US G 20 meeting until after this match to press the flesh with this very influential Asian guy .......... from what I understand FFA are gob smacked  ...

See   http://www.yellowfever.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7644

We have come a long way can you ever imagine given the rabble old soccer was that an article would ever be published in Australia. Imagine the president of FIFA & the Australian Prime Minster going to a football match to see who will be the champion team of Asia & the Middle East.

In the middle will be Mr Frank Lowy who we owe it all to and I am sure saying to the South Australian Premier and opposition leader along with Mr Rudd what the benefits of football are. Midfielder2008-11-18 00:06:47

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
MenapisDojo wrote:
Hard News wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
Hard News wrote:

Also Eejhit, yes on the England -> Wales thing, but Tahitian clubs play in the French Cup.  That's an Oceania nation, in a UEFA competition.


French Cup is not a UEFA competetion.


It is a competition in a UEFA country, like the A-League is a competition in an AFC country.



Yeah and Tahiti is a French territory were as NZ has nothing to do with Australia
I doubt the Phoenix would be kicked out of the A-League but god it would be bloody
funny if they were!!!
 
 
Are you pissed that your team was on the end of a 7-0 spanking? Shouldn't take it that hard.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Not my team mate
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah, don't insult the Waitak fans, they seem to have the brains to realise that having an A-League team is good for the profile of NZ football.
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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
SC03 wrote:
I would like to know how many other AFC nations have promotion/relegation systems. Amateur ones might, but professional ones? Approx. none?
 


Japan only as I understand it have a promotion & relegation system in place

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
MenapisDojo wrote:
Not my team mate
 
Then why would it be funny? Can't see anything amusing in it at all no matter who you support.
 
.....and I've just realised Happyted is an Auck City supporter. Anyone who thinks the situation is funny, isn't a football supporter...... and shouldn't be
Royal2008-11-18 07:55:31
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