Angst please.

I think JD (as per usual) is partly right but also way too doom and gloom for me.

I think he's spot on that if we're not going to be fun to watch, then we need to win. I don't think we need to win the league...we just need to "be winning" for people to come. If we're not winning, people will either watch it on tele or not at all.

I also think Term X is on the money when he says we lack an interesting figure head. It used to be Tony P - who loved to be in the paper, so gave interviews all the time. But he was engaging and interesting, so he came over okay. The spokespeople we have today are not in the same class. So...why not get the more interesting people in the team to speak out more...

And there has already been an exciting game this year...the opening game against Sydney was a cracker. Fenton's goal was magic, and people left buzzing. Then we went flat and the football went to shit as we sought to stabilise. But there is hope that in this squad there is entertainment. We've seen it already this year. So I still have hope.

Last of all - why is none of this reflecting on us? The Zone was shit all day Sunday. We can't blame the team for that. Don't we have some responsibility as fans? Patrick and a few others have been busting themselves trying to promote the Phoenix on a Friday before home games. They're getting fewer than 20 people. 

So maybe we all just don't give a fuck any more? That's how it seems. Maybe it's not the just the Phoenix that need to buck their ideas up?

Can someone please tell me what entertaining football is exactly?

For me - goals/attempts (to either side) are what makes a game entertaining.

This is a really good point and something I've also noticed a bit recently too.  It always seems to be Ricki or Manny and neither gives good copy.  It's really hard to get a sound bite out of Ricky and Manny just isn't comfortable in front of the microphone.  

Also, there seems to be some good articles in the Herald from a guy Daniel Richardson.  They're a lot more interesting than Sam Worthington's stuff, he seems to meet the definition of phoning it in.  His preview of the game today has nothing from the Phoenix camp or the Phoenix players and is basically just about del Piero but recycles quotes from an article in the Sydney Morning Herald into about 150 words.

Yeah at least Terry was always in the media. (that's not meant to sound sarcastic)

Just on this, Westpac Stadium has the 2nd highest goals per game at each A-league venue.

entertaining footy i= winning footy = entertaining footy (end of)

on a more angsty note, why are we not more angsty about this "lets take the nix on the road" theme that is coming out in the media - doing well in the league isn't drawing the crowds, our brand of footy isn't, we won't bring in a marquee bname to attract fans, instead lets take it to Auckland and Chch and someohter centres and become the NZ Nix - this irks me a lot and yet noone else seems to be upset by it?

Even though what is entertaining is subjective, that's demonstrably rubbish.

If we won every game 1-0 in the 20th minute with an own goal and there were no other shots on target vs a 4-4 draw with 4 bicycle kicks which do you think would be the more entertaining game?

JD - that kinda proves my point, fuindamentally we want/need to win right? at this point in the club's existance noone really cares how we win, right? if we'd been consistantly winning and top of the league or at least top four for 10 years then we might have reason to say "winning with a single own goal is not how we want to win". simple fact we don't have that luxury, so for my money winning = enertaining = me happy!

Maybe because it comes out every year when the crowds go down. Boy who cried wolf kind of thing?

Really? Have you been living in a hole?

JD you are talking about entertaining footy yet seems you don't even know what you mean?

He wants us to concede 4 goals every game. 

I wasn't in my normal spot in the FZ on the weekend and sat with some friends in aisle 28. A lot of very frustrated people around us when the Phoenix didn't shoot when they were about 30m-40m from goal. 

hole, not sure what you mean. I've been questioning wverone I can even GM on facebook, he's clearly stated that he's anti marquee player to bring in more fans and is obviously letting David Dome talk to the papers to spread the word that the nix will travel to bring the numbers in. I've not seen a lot of other angst from YF or oterhs. It may eb an idle threat, but regardless it doesn't look or sound good.

Stealing this from 442 forums in regards to Fred's article about taking more games away from Wgtn:

same old...

Nobody wants the Nix to travel more than they do. 1 or 2 games a year as it is, is probably quite an ask for the players given the travel hours they already endure. Personally I'd rather they concentrate on winning but like has been discussed in the past, taking the odd game away does have some financial incentive. Also nobody wants them to become the NZ Phoenix because it pretty well closes the door on another kiwi side in the future.

Reading this thread I notice more than usual angst. Sure Ricki can grind out results and even have one or two good wins but he doesn't build exciting teams. Rojas is the evidence of this. Clearly the boy was special but Ricki couldn't keep hold of him. Now he's lighting up Melbourne Victory performances. How much of Rojas decision to cross the ditch was down to the Phoenix's playing style. The likes of Manny, Smith and Lochhead don't get the juices flowing. They're solid but uninspiring. Huysegems is a good pro, as is Durante, but they don't bring in the punters. Fenton is one of the few showing any flashes of inspiriation but he's young and raw. Totori running at defenders at least is exciting, even if he often tries too much without looking for better options. 

Football teams need excitiment as well as work horses. For most fans it is entertainment competing with all the other forms of entertainment on offer. I don't think the current Phoenix can win the A league so just what are you offering.

I know I'm biased but I find watching ACFC more exciting than the Phoenix because of the infusion of Latin flair and the competitiveness of knowing we can win the ASBP and the O League. You also don't know what you're going to get from game to game and with the Club World Cup on offer players are really trying. In their hearts what do the Phoenix players really feel - that they can win the A League or just fill in the numbers. You definitely need someone to inspire the fair weather supporters and the fickle media. Ricki is too dour. At least Serepisos was interesting. Above all you need some exciting players.

Our playing style in 09/10 was a lot more suited to Marco than the style that Victory were playing last season.

maybe a double step-over, flick-flack, or dummy backheel should be compulsory every time a player receives the ball.

Here's my question:

we have a lot of attacking talent and I don't think we have used it to its full potential this season so far. Much more than in previous years.

Which coaches in the league would be sure to get more out of this bunch of players, particularly in our attack, than Ricki?

I think Ange, maybe Popovic- otherwise I think that Ricki is at least as good- or the other coaches are just as poor. 

Well we are missing Daniel's backheels.

Die hards sure, but I really don't think fair weather supporters are pulled into Westpac stadium by the likes of Sigmund, Durante and Huyssegems. The media certainly aren't much interested. The first two seasons of the Kingz were the most successful because of the pulling power of seeing Wynton Rufer finishing his playing career. The drop off since Del Piero featured in that opening game has been noticeable and it's not just down to the weather.

I admire your loyalty but you don't think of excitement and the Phoenix in the same breath. There's a flatness this year that's down to a lot of things but if you're not going to win anything then you have to entertain. We don't have the deep loyalties and traditions of European football to pull in punters despite results. I think you guys have done well in normally staid New Zealand but The Phoenix is an ambitious project and needs to step up a level. If ACFC didn't have its NZ/Croatian base who turn out no matter what, it would have small crowds like other ASBP teams too.

It's all about what you put out there. Look at the Breakers. A few years ago they got crowds in the hundreds. Now as two time champions they can draw upwards of 7,000 to big games at the Vector arena. They're winners and the crowds love it, so do the fickle media. We're talking about boring basketball! There's something wrong if the biggest most exciting sport in the world can't do better than that here.

Don't forget the arm flapping to rev the crowd up.

No and yes..but only cos I saw a little sign inside NW when I shopped there Tuesday..drove into work today tho!

True. There are no passionate arm flappers in the current squad.

it's pretty obvious what JD is saying about entertainment - how often after we win do people comment along the lines of "shit game, but at least we won"? If we won, why was it still a shit game if it's all about winning?

I'd take a boring win over an exciting game any day, but the average punter pays money to be entertained unless they have a large emotional stake in the team.

For many of us, the entertainment comes from the struggle to win, but it's not like that for the more fickle fans.

Jesus let's not turn this into another thread about Marco

I am enjoying the A-League as a whole a lot more this year. There are some pretty exciting players.