Wellington Phoenix Men

April 18th - D-Day

890 replies · 29,536 views
about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
terminator_x wrote:
Despite everything he's ever said about being into the Nix for the long term I never actually believed he would let it get so far as f**king up his core businesses.
 
I hadn't remembered this until I read your post but I was talking to someone who knows Terry well who said to me two years ago that no matter what happened Terry would kill everything else to help the Phoenix live... turns out they may have been right.
Hard News2011-03-07 15:34:50

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It was a very expensive and costly haircut for him that's for sure..

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Never doubted Terry's commitment, just the methods.

Still feel for credibility reasons, we need a new owner, not a Terry miracle.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A new owner is another miracle.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
 Agreed, but i'm talking about mid-term survival and growth. Struggle with the idea of sponsors etc wanting a piece of Terry after the WGA dealings. zonknz2011-03-07 15:37:25
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The TAB odds.
 
Death  $1.50
FFA prop $3.00
Terry Miracle $10.00
Different Miracle $1500.00

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
terminator_x wrote:
Smithy wrote:
rjmiller wrote:
I'd still sing it if he turns up to a game next season. Its pretty unlikely we would have the Phoenix in Wellington without him. Nothing will ever change that.
 
 
x 1,000
 
If it all goes tits up this week we should be erecting a f**king statue of Terry because it will mean that he actually crucified himself for the Phoenix. OK, so he may have got in touble anyway (without the Phoenix), but the amount of money he's put in to the Nix would surely have helped prolonged the life of some of his other interests.
 
Despite everything he's ever said about being into the Nix for the long term I never actually believed he would let it get so far as f**king up his core businesses. That's why a small part of me still thinks he has a way out of this.
 
And if it really is over, then he is a legend. A stupid f**king idiot of a legend, but still a legend.
 


It is not the nix that has wrecked his core business, it has been his moving from his Core Business (Property Owner) into becoming a property developer, and being left with a building full of unsold apartments that no one has wanted since the Property Crash.

The nix situation may have not assisted but it is certainly no where near being the cause.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'd put $10 on Terry Miracle if I were a betting woman.

The WGA stuff surely doesn't reflect that badly on Terry? Perhaps indicates that he's gullible/naive/desperate, but if there's a crook there, it's Ali Syed, not Terry.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
There's always those who will want to knock people like Terry, as unfortunate as that is.

Personally, i couldn't find words appropriate enough for him. The memories he has given me and plenty others, and the opportunity he has given football in this country when all seemed lost, you can't put a price on it.

Anyway i know fk all about the ins and outs of this court case but would like to say good luck Terry and if it doesn't go your way i wish you all the best in the future.

Three for me, and two for them.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
I'd put $10 on Terry Miracle if I were a betting woman.

The WGA stuff surely doesn't reflect that badly on Terry? Perhaps indicates that he's gullible/naive/desperate, but if there's a crook there, it's Ali Syed, not Terry.


I'm certainly not implying that WGA had made terry in any way look like a crook, but it does impact his credibility, yes.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
terminator_x wrote:
Despite everything he's ever said about being into the Nix for the long term I never actually believed he would let it get so far as f**king up his core businesses.
 
I hadn't remembered this until I read your post but I was talking to someone who knows Terry well who said to me two years ago that no matter what happened Terry would kill everything else to help the Phoenix live... turns out they may have been right.
 
This morning in court security was offered over two houses - one in roseneath and the other one in Oriental Bay (iirc).  I am pretty sure one of them is Terry's personal home.

Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Going to be interesting to see all the i told you so jerks reappear when it does go tits up.
Guess in those peoples eyes this is going to have no affect on football in NZ.Sadly i think it could well be the opposite.

GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The ACFC Knitting Circle would actually argue it's good for football. Because surely all the Nix fans and money will now flow to the ASB Prems!!!

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I suspect he has let it go On so long purely with the Phoenix in mind. It wouldve been way easier and better for him to go into liquidation well before now.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
ballane wrote:
Going to be interesting to see all the i told you so jerks reappear when it does go tits up.
Guess in those peoples eyes this is going to have no affect on football in NZ.Sadly i think it could well be the opposite.
 
Your friend who tells you that you have pneumonia might well believe that this will have an affect on your health.  They might even be telling you that something needs to be done about it - even if they're not a doctor and can't afford to pay your medical bills.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The fat lady hasn't started singing yet... she is making her way to the stage but anything could happen...and if that doesn't work, start selling some souls
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Clearly Terry has done immense things for Football in Wellington, in getting this thing off the ground and having the drive to keep it going. It is always at the back of my mind how much he has actually contributed in cash. It has supposedly cost him a Million a year although this year a breakeven position was forecast. He is into the IRD for PAYE, Kiwi Saver etc and ACC to the tune of around $3.5m. A cynic may suggest the Taxpayer has in fact funded a very large part of the Phoenix to date.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You could also say the tax payer has funded all the toilet paper he has used to date also.

Hate when people use that argument,its emotive and makes no practical sense.Tegal2011-03-07 15:58:35

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
terminator_x wrote:
Smithy wrote:
rjmiller wrote:
I'd still sing it if he turns up to a game next season. Its pretty unlikely we would have the Phoenix in Wellington without him. Nothing�will ever�change that.

�


�

x 1,000

�

If it all goes tits up this week we should be erecting a f**king statue of Terry because it will mean that he actually crucified himself for the Phoenix. OK, so he may have got in touble anyway (without the Phoenix), but the amount of money he's put in to the Nix would surely have helped prolonged the life of some of his other interests.

�

Despite everything he's ever said about being into the Nix for the long term I never actually believed he would let it get so far as f**king up his core businesses. That's why a small part of me still thinks he has a way out of this.

�

And if it really is over, then he is a legend. A stupid f**king idiot of a legend, but still a legend.

�


Love this post.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:
Clearly Terry has done immense things for Football in Wellington, in getting this thing off the ground and having the drive to keep it going. It is always at the back of my mind how much he has actually contributed in cash. It has supposedly cost him a Million a year although this year a breakeven position was forecast. He is into the IRD for PAYE, Kiwi Saver etc and ACC to the tune of around $3.5m. A cynic may suggest the Taxpayer has in fact funded a very large part of the Phoenix to date.
 
Thanks for your permission.   But I'm pretty sure I jumped the gun.
 
Someday, I'm gonna learn me some manners.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Tegal wrote:
You could also say the tax payer has funded all the toilet paper he has used to date also.

Hate when people use that argument,its emotive and makes no sense.


How can you say it does not make sense.... if the money he should be paying in tax is effectively being used for running costs  of the club. Just because you may not like it does not mean it makes no sense!
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Except if Terry's assets are sold that debt will be settled and the taxpayer has funded nothing at all, merely chosen to invest it's money with the Wellington Phoenix rather than KiwiSaver and good on them for it.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:
How can you say it does not make sense.... if the money he should be paying in tax is effectively being used for running costs� of the club.


No it doesn't. Money is fungible and there's no difference between dollars. You might as well say that the money he should be paying in tax is effectively being used to (a) pay Century City's staff's wages; (b) do renovations on his properties; (c) advertise for new tenants; (d) give advance fees to Indian scam artists; etc etc.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
And that makes the Nix a Ponzi scheme?
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
sthn.jeff wrote:
And that makes the Nix a Ponzi scheme?


No. It makes the nix one of a number of things Terry has spent money on.

Just because he owes money doesn't mean those he owes money to are funding any one particular thing.

Allegedly

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It would be a Ponzi scheme if Terry were doing this on purpose, which I don't think anyone except the wilder fringers of the NBR readership are insinuating.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
sthn.jeff wrote:
How can you say it does not make sense.... if the money he should be paying in tax is effectively being used for running costs  of the club.


No it doesn't. Money is fungible and there's no difference between dollars. You might as well say that the money he should be paying in tax is effectively being used to (a) pay Century City's staff's wages; (b) do renovations on his properties; (c) advertise for new tenants; (d) give advance fees to Indian scam artists; etc etc.
 
Jeff's position is that one can say, cynically, that the taxpayer's money was being used to run the Phoenix.  Unless you're saying that a,b,c, etc. is the real use for the money (and no others are legitimate), you haven't defeated the charge.
 
But I think you're trying to deflate, rather than defeat, the position Jeff permitted.  So the target is to say that a,b,c,etc. are just as much the use of this money as running the Phoenix.  There's at least one reason for thinking that's not true, however: the outstanding tax bill from the Phoenix would not exist for Serepisos if he hadn't been running the club.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It would be fair to say that "the taxpayer is effectively paying for keeping Terry's business empire afloat". The Nix is only a tiny part of that.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
He owes the IRD around 1.3 million for the phoenix right? I suspect the Phoenix has generated a significantly larger amount of tax for the IRD coffers. That money he does owe would also not exist for the IRD to get if the Phoenix never existed either. The taxpayer has not funded football outside of SPARC.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Doloras wrote:
It would be fair to say that "the taxpayer is effectively paying for keeping Terry's business empire afloat". The Nix is only a tiny part of that.
 
...
 
So you're complaining that "the taxpayer was effectively paying for the Phoenix" is too kind?
 
In that case, I will argue from moderation: my position is a sensible compromise between extremists on either flank.
 
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
...but, but, but Terry's so naive falling for it.  No one will ever do business with him again.  Surely no one else is that stup... oh.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
WTF couldn't all these stories have come out a couple of months ago.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rjmiller wrote:
He owes the IRD around 1.3 million for the phoenix right? I suspect�the Phoenix has generated a�significantly larger amount of tax�for the IRD coffers. That money he does owe would also not exist for the IRD to get if the Phoenix never existed either. The taxpayer has not funded football outside of SPARC.


Well put. The debt doesn't represent a cost to the IRD, it is just a gain which is yet to eventuate.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rjmiller wrote:
WTF couldn't all these stories have come out a couple of�months ago.


But they did. The day after the WGA/Nix loan deal was announced, some guy was in the NBR saying it was a Nigerian-style scam. And wikifrauds.net has been up for more than two months.

That is what is amazing me. A Google search could and should have set off every warning bell in Wellington and a few as far north as Levin.

Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads



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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
...but, but, but Terry's so naive falling for it.  No one will ever do business with him again.  Surely no one else is that stup... oh.


REMEMBER.....

He's not the Messiah.

He's a very naughty boy!

Nostalgia isnt what it used to be...........

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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Revel wrote:
rjmiller wrote:
He owes the IRD around 1.3 million for the phoenix right? I suspect the Phoenix has generated a significantly larger amount of tax for the IRD coffers. That money he does owe would also not exist for the IRD to get if the Phoenix never existed either. The taxpayer has not funded football outside of SPARC.


Well put. The debt doesn't represent a cost to the IRD, it is just a gain which is yet to eventuate.


It is a cost, they are funding the PAYE payments for players that have not been made.
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about 15 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Internet in Levin.
�

Funny.


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